Maynmann:

Well in some instances the authors claimed yahweh was dictating to them..
You should understand that christianity, judaism and islam are all abrahamaic religions.

They get their books from the same source.

Do you even understand the meaning of First, Second and Third person in speech?

It looks like you dont know iw

TenQ:

Do you even understand the meaning of First, Second and Third person in speech?

It looks like you dont know iw

You don’t understand what you are saying.

How can you be writing in third person and recording event that a god said?
how did the third person know that moses went to mountain to receive anything.

And besides it’s Torah that is said to be written mostly in third person.

You are disproving the validating of your bible yourself, we are still on Old Testament, we haven’t even reach New Testament.

Maynmann:

You don’t understand what you are saying.

How can you be writing in third person and recording event that a god said?
how did the third person know that moses went to mountain to receive anything.

And besides it’s Torah that is said to be written mostly in third person.

You are disproving the validating of your bible yourself, we are still on Old Testament, we haven’t even reach New Testament.

The point of contention is very simple.
1. The Quran is the Verbatim words of Allah
2. The Bible is NOT the verbatim words of God.

The Bible is written in First, Second and Third point of view.
It is NOT everything in the Bible that is God SAID!
The Bible is a CHRONICLE of Gods dealing with His people AND their Reactions and Consequences of their Actions.


Which one of these do you disagree with: Bird of the same Father!?

TenQ:

The point of contention is very simple.
1. The Quran is the Verbatim words of Allah
2. The Bible is NOT the verbatim words of God.

The Bible is written in First, Second and Third point of view.
It is NOT everything in the Bible that is God SAID!
The Bible is a CHRONICLE of Gods dealing with His people AND their Reactions and Consequences of their Actions.


Which one of these do you disagree with: Bird of the same Father!?

The creation story in quran is same with the one in the jewish bible.
Allah and Elohim means same thing.

The Torah is written in 3rd person despite they claiming it is written by moses.
The books in the bible were gotten from different sources from unknown authors, edited and altered of course it is not the word of yahweh.

Don’t you all worship the same gods and bow to the same father?, abrahamaic Elohim.

AntiChristian:
Abeg no dey mention me in these your subtle expression of lunacy!
It reeks of ignorance and arrogance as usual!

The Sabians mentioned in the Qur'an are composed of people who were believers (monotheists) and non-believers (polytheists) just like the Christians and Jews!

It is actually the Magians (aka wise men) that came to "worship" Jesus that are idol worshippers! Jesus in the Bible must be Ahura Mazda!

Thank you sir at least you can cure my lunacy by answering truthfully to my questions.

AntiChristian:

Too much bragging!
Your theatrics is phenomenal but you can only trick the gullible!
Four Categories namely : Muhmin (believers aka Muslims), Christians, Jews and Sabians!
All of the categories mentioned have those who fear Allah among them! And not to confuse the Christians and Jews mentioned with the present day Christians.

Let me go with you here: FIVE groups of people
1. Muslims = Follow Mohammed
2. Jews = Follow Moses
3. Christians = Follow Jesus
4. Sabians = Follow Constellations
5. Whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good

There is NO iota of indication in the VERSE if they fear Allah or NOT: if there is please show me.

Let me prove it with a simple Question
Please read Bukhari 2926 AND tell me if the Muslims will kill ALL the Jews or separate the Jews that refuse to fear Allah?
Sahih al-Bukhari 2926
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

AntiChristian:

So na to dictate how Allah should grammatically arrange the revelation remains now?
Arabic is diverse grammatically and the Qur'an has been a religious source for Arabic grammar!

"they shall have their reward from THEIR LORD. "
AND
"they shall have their reward from US "
Mean complete different things.
Quran 12:1
Alif, Lam, Ra. These are the verses of the clear Book.

Quran 3:7
He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.
Allah wrote a book in which the allegorical parts are impossible for the target audience to understand: however, Qur'an 2:62 is NOT allegorical. Is it?

If Qur'an 2:62 is NOT allegorical, we can assume that it is very clear and means exactly what it says

AntiChristian:

Every word in the Qur'an is from Allah!

According to the Islamic standard narrative which breaks down on scrutiny.
Your answer causes a problem
It is either
1. Mohammed wrote this verse forgetting that he should be impasonating Allah
OR
2. Allah was referring to the Lord of the Christians, the Jews and the Sabians as different from himself
Proof:
Can you show me a single sentence where THEIR can refer to ME, MYSELF, I or US?

AntiChristian:

Allah is their Lord! The Lord of the Believers, the Jews, Christians and Sabians! The Lord of all that exists! Many groups were mentioned so what else is the appropriate pronoun to be used?

Pick up Brighter Grammar Book 1-5, it will really help you in understanding English Grammar!

How can Allah be THEIR Lord when Allah uses the word THEIR for their Lord?

Proof:
Can you write a single sentence where a person can use the word THEIR for HIMSELF

I guess I need some lectures in English language from you.

AntiChristian:

The Sabians are mentioned in three places in the Quran. The first is the verse in which Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians [wa’l-sabi-in ], whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” [al-Baqarah 2:62]

The second is the verse in which Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Verily, those who believe (in Allah and in His Messenger Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and the Sabians [wa’l-sabi-in], and the Christians, and the Majus, and those who worship others besides Allah; truly, Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection. Verily, Allah is over all things a Witness.” [al-Hajj 22:17]

And the third is the verse in which Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Surely, those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah, in His Messenger Muhammad and all that was revealed to him from Allah), and those who are the Jews and the Sabians [wa’l-sabiun] and the Christians, — whosoever believed in Allah and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” [al-Maidah 5:69]

From the three above we can see that Allah is their (Muslims, Jews, Christians and Sabians) Lord!

So whoever believes in Allah and the last and worked righteousness according to what Allah has commanded will be saved!

You seem to forget that Allah was making a LIST of those whom THEIR Lord will save on the Last day. Your highlight in YELLOW is the 5th category it is NOT an umbrella characteristics.

Proof:
Quran 2:62
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُوا۟ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ وَٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ مَنْ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلْـَٔاخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَـٰلِحًۭا فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ

I want to believe that you know that WA[/i] in Arabic means [i]AND!
and MAN in Arabic mean WHOEVER
1. Indeed those who Believed (إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟)
2. AND Those who became Jews (ءَامَنُوا۟ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُوا۟)
3. AND the Christians (وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ)
4. AND the Sabians (وَٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ)
5. WHOEVER [/b]believed in Allah (وَٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ مَنْ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّهِ) and the last day and did righteous deeds (وَٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلْـَٔاخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَـٰلِحًۭا)

[b]Proof:
This is a LIST that is EXCLUSIVE ( that is: it doesn't mean that it refers to a person who is BOTH a Muslim, a Christian, A Jew, a Sabian and also believed in Allah).
That is it is sufficient for a person to be EITHER a Muslim OR a Jew OR a Christian OR a Sabian OR Whoever Believed in Allah and the last day and did Righteous deeds.

Let me help Allah rewrite the Ayah in such a way that it will go with your standard Islamic narrative.

Qur'an 2:62
Surely those who believe (Muslims), and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians , whoever THAT believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord US, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

See how I have helped Allah to write the Quran in a perfectly un-ambiguous way according to your standard Islamic narrative.

Question:
1. Is it UNTRUE that the WHOSOEVER mentioned in Quran 2;62 refers to ANYONE ELSE (Not a Muslim, nor a Jew, nor a Christian nor a Sabian) but believes in Allah and the Last day and does good?
2. If you say this is UNTRUE, what happens to the people of the 124,000 islamic prophets sent to China, America, Germany, Costa Rica , Ibadan, Oyo etc?

Note that the people of Noah are not Jews, the people of Abraham are not Jews and Allah says in Quran 10:47
Quran 10:47
And for every nation there is a messenger. And when their messenger cometh (on the Day of Judgment) it will be judged between them fairly, and they will not be wronged.

gaskiyamagana:

Hope you have accepted the foolery of your bigotry in christianization of the Q2:62 as Antichristian pointed. Please, show us more of your ignoramus by explaining Q22: 17 and Q5:69 to corroborate your convinction on QUR'AN 2:62.

You could have checked the foolery of my bigotry in christianization of Quran 2:62 by answering this question
Question:
1. Is it UNTRUE that the WHOSOEVER mentioned in Quran 2;62 refers to ANYONE ELSE (Not a Muslim, nor a Jew, nor a Christian nor a Sabian) but believes in Allah and the Last day and does good?
2. If you say this is UNTRUE, what happens to the people of the 124,000 islamic prophets sent to China, America, Germany, Costa Rica , Ibadan, Oyo etc?


I ask you to look at my correction of the Quran 2:62 to confirm if it says exactly what you desire it to say? LOL!!

I guess you didn't know that Quran 2:62 and Quran 5:69 are fairly IDENTICAL and thus offer no added message
Quran 5:69
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُوا۟ وَٱلصَّـٰبِـُٔونَ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ مَنْ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلْـَٔاخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَـٰلِحًۭا فَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ

Quran 22:17 replaced the Sabians with the Magians (if you want me to take them as identical) and it added the IDOLATERS: claiming that Allah will judge between them on the day of resurrection. If you had read AntiChristian's write-up, you wouldn't have goofed this bad
Quran 22:17
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُوا۟ وَٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ وَٱلْمَجُوسَ وَٱلَّذِينَ أَشْرَكُوٓا۟ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَفْصِلُ بَيْنَهُمْ يَوْمَ ٱلْقِيَـٰمَةِ ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ شَهِيدٌ

AntiChristian:


He doesn't know Grammar and will keep bragging on the knowledge he lacks!

Allah is the Lord of those who believe!
Allah is the Lord of those the Christians!
Allah is the Lord of those the Jews!
Allah is the Lord of those the Sabians!

So does this mean Allah is four so it should be 4 Lords when Allah already said He is one?


"their" in ...their Lord ....

"Their is a Possessive determiner/adjective and is used to describe ownership or possession
1.belonging to or associated with the people or things previously mentioned or easily identified.

So in Grammar "their" modifies the word "Lord" making it attributable to all those mentioned earlier!

Lastly, i once encouraged your to read more about Point of view (POV), a literary device in which the writer can write in first person, second person or third person.

Stop my mentions when bragging in ignorance while arrogant!

I didn't ask Allah to write the Quran in such a way that it is full of grammatical errors

I helped Allah rewrite the Ayah in such a way that it will go with your standard Islamic narrative.

Qur'an 2:62
Surely those who believe (Muslims), and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians , whoever THAT believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord US, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

See how I have helped Allah to write the Quran in a perfectly un-ambiguous way according to your standard Islamic narrative.
Can you check if it is precise enough?

I did ask you some simple Questions:
1. How can Allah be THEIR Lord when Allah uses the word THEIR for their Lord?
Shouldn't Allah have used
"whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, US "
2. Can you write a single sentence where a person can use the word THEIR for HIMSELF? or Can you show me a single sentence where THEIR can refer to ME, MYSELF, I or US?
3. Shouldn't Allah have used
"whoever believes in Allah US and the Last Day"


It is obvious that Muhammad wrote this verse forgetting that he should be impersonating Allah

Maynmann:


The creation story in quran is same with the one in the jewish bible.
Allah and Elohim means same thing.

The Torah is written in 3rd person despite they claiming it is written by moses.
The books in the bible were gotten from different sources from unknown authors, edited and altered of course it is not the word of yahweh.

Don’t you all worship the same gods and bow to the same father?, abrahamaic Elohim.

Oh, so Adam was created in 40 years?
AND
Adam is as tall as a skyscraper?
AND
God struck Adams Right hand and white children like ants came out and God Struck Adams left arm and black children like ants came forth?

Speak to the issue of contention or get out of here: son of the same Father!

TenQ:

Oh, so Adam was created in 40 years?
AND
Adam is as tall as a skyscraper?
AND
God struck Adams Right hand and white children like ants came out and God Struck Adams left arm and black children like ants came forth?

Speak to the issue of contention or get out of here: son of the same Father!

Where are you seeing all these jargons?
And which of the adams? Adam kadmon? Adam Rishon?

You lack knowledge on this issue, just like Muslims you are a property of Abrahamaic deities, they own all of you.
Child of the Israelite god you will learn.

Maynmann:

Where are you seeing all these jargons?
And which of the adams? Adam kadmon? Adam Rishon?

You lack knowledge on this issue, just like Muslims you are a property of Abrahamaic deities, they own all of you.
Child of the Israelite god you will learn.

You are completely ignorant of Islam BUT because you are sons of the same Father, you felt obliged to fight for them.

Please, go an learn or at least ask questions: I will NOT teach you Islam!

TenQ:

You are completely ignorant of Islam BUT because you are sons of the same Father, you felt obliged to fight for them.

Please, go an learn or at least ask questions: I will NOT teach you Islam!

You are the one that is ignorant of islam.
Islam literally means “he surrendered”, i told you elohim and allah means same thing you both are worshipping the same god, properties of Abrahamaic deities, you are owned by them.

You know nothing about islam. Even your christianity you lack the knowledge. I WILL TUTOR YOU and your isrealite father together.

TenQ:

No sir!
The Jews NEVER ever claimed that the Tanakh is a DICTATION or LITERAL words of God.

The Tanakh was written in First person, Second person and Third person perspective from the first words of Genesis

I think you should stop wasting your attention on Islam apologists disguising as low budget atheists. They are demonic elements who never see anything wrong in Islamic teachings but stand against anything Christianity

Maynmann:

You are the one that is ignorant of islam.
Islam literally means “he surrendered”, i told you elohim and allah means same thing you both are worshipping the same god, properties of Abrahamaic deities, you are owned by them.

You know nothing about islam. Even your christianity you lack the knowledge. I WILL TUTOR YOU and your isrealite father together.

See how you've digressed?

Please, go and learn or at least ask questions: I will NOT teach you Islam!

advocatejare:

I think you should stop wasting your attention on Islam apologists disguising as low budget atheists. They are demonic elements who never see anything wrong in Islamic teachings but stand against anything Christianity

Thanks Bro!
He has been ignored!

He came to deliver his brother from the same father Satan!
Mainman is an Atheist I think. He doesn't know a hoot about Islam but he desires to be their champion deliverer

LOL!

TenQ:

See how you've digressed?

Please, go and learn or at least ask questions: I will NOT teach you Islam!

That’s because you lack understanding of the abrahamaic gods you are worshipping.

Once again, allah and elohim means same thing, you know nothing about islam, i will TUTOR you and your isrealite father!

Maynmann:

That’s because you lack understanding of the abrahamaic gods you are worshipping.

Once again, allah and elohim means same thing, you know nothing about islam, i will TUTOR you and your isrealite father!

And you have a good understanding of satan in whose kingdom you serve.

Congratulations!

Since, I'm not interested in your domain, quietly leave before you get hurt!

TenQ:

And you have a good understanding of satan in whose kingdom you serve.

Congratulations!

Since, I'm not interested in your domain, quietly leave before you get hurt!

You don’t even know what “satan” means, and the “kingdom” as used in the New Testament and tanakh you lack the meaning.

I will tutor you and your isrealite father, yahweh your creator will break into pieces before i get hurt!

The verse shows that all your religions have their lords/god/master which is not the God of heaven who made all things cos non seek him as written in your bible. Every god has their symbols. That of islam is the crescent moon. That of christianity is the sun. That is why you worship on a sun-god day aka sun-day and a sun disk is always behind Jesus your god in his pic. Lord is a code for baal/master/god not the God of heaven. Many names in your bible like lord, lord god etc are names of lesser gods. It is written in that day you shall call me Ishi and no longer baali. You ppl call on lords/gods/baal. In that day you all shall know the truth

Maynmann:

You don’t even know what “satan” means, and the “kingdom” as used in the New Testament and tanakh you lack the meaning.

I will tutor you and your isrealite father, yahweh your creator will break into pieces before i get hurt!

?

TenQ:

?

?

Perhaps it's a big deal then again it may not.
Allah often refers to himself in plural to connote divine majesty or royalty.

This is an ancient Arabian rhetorical method that has fallen into disuse in both modern Arabic and modern English. This has led modern readers to misunderstand pronominal references to God using the majestic “we” as a Quranic justification for the Trinity or for idolatry.

Don't know if this can be compared to Yoruba language where elders are addressed as won.

I really shouldn't be on threads originated by the OP more so when it often appears to be a ploy for ridicule and play.

TenQ:

See how you've digressed?

Please, go and learn or at least ask questions: I will NOT teach you Islam!

Pls ignore that troll. Don't let her derail this thread.

Jewish slaves defending their jewish masters and fods.

honesttalk21:
Perhaps it's a big deal then again it may not.
Allah often refers to himself in plural to connote divine majesty or royalty.

This is an ancient Arabian rhetorical method that has fallen into disuse in both modern Arabic and modern English. This has led modern readers to misunderstand pronominal references to God using the majestic “we” as a Quranic justification for the Trinity or for idolatry.

Don't know if this can be compared to Yoruba language where elders are addressed as won.

I really shouldn't be on threads originated by the OP more so when it often appears to be a ploy for ridicule and play.

I understand that Allah uses plural such as We and US for himself to imply majesty and I am willing to conceded that.

This was why I rewrote the Qur'an 2:62 as is below to suit the standard Islamic narrative

Qur'an 2:62
Surely those who believe (Muslims), and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians , whoever THAT believes in Allah US and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord US, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

If you check this verse, you cannot but agree that it is precise and unambiguous unlike the original?


Secondly,
I did ask you some simple Questions:
How can Allah be THEIR Lord when Allah uses the word THEIR for their Lord?
Shouldn't Allah have used
"whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, US "


Thirdly,
I said: can you write a single sentence where a person can use the word THEIR for HIMSELF? or Can you show me a single sentence where THEIR can refer to ME, MYSELF, I or US?

Once you use THEIR in a sentence, the possessive pronoun become EXCLUSIVE to you.
Example :
Their is the possessive pronoun , as in "their car is red";
While
there is used as an adjective, "he is always there for me," a noun, "get away from there," and, chiefly, an adverb, "stop right there"; they're is a contraction of "they are," as in "they're getting married."

Finally,
The sentence is made worse with Allah Already using his name as second person as Allah in the verse. This gives an impression that:
Muhammad wrote this verse forgetting that he should be impersonating Allah

Ambiguities would have been laid to rest if
Allah had used
"whoever believes in Allah US and the Last Day"

SIRTee15:


Pls ignore that troll. Don't let her derail this thread.

I have. Thank you!

He's the Son of the same father as Muslims: it looks like he got a message from their headquarters to come fight for his struggling brother.

bobestman:
The verse shows that all your religions have their lords/god/master which is not the God of heaven who made all things cos non seek him as written in your bible. Every god has their symbols. That of islam is the crescent moon. That of christianity is the sun. That is why you worship on a sun-god day aka sun-day and a sun disk is always behind Jesus your god in his pic. Lord is a code for baal/master/god not the God of heaven. Many names in your bible like lord, lord god etc are names of lesser gods. It is written in that day you shall call me Ishi and no longer baali. You ppl call on lords/gods/baal. In that day you all shall know the truth

I didn't know that you are so educated like this?
What is your religion if you have one and who is your teacher : I think I will like to learn from you.
LOL


Like us Adventist's and those who practice Judaism, our God should be SAT for Saturn: don't you think so?
In Saudi Arabia, Christians go to church on Fridays making the Saudi Christian's God being FRI. You can help me with the identity Fri as I am not that knowledgeable in this thing

TenQ:

I didn't ask Allah to write the Quran in such a way that it is full of grammatical errors

I helped Allah rewrite the Ayah in such a way that it will go with your standard Islamic narrative.

Qur'an 2:62
Surely those who believe (Muslims), and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians , whoever THAT believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord US, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

See how I have helped Allah to write the Quran in a perfectly un-ambiguous way according to your standard Islamic narrative.
Can you check if it is precise enough?

I did ask you some simple Questions:
1. How can Allah be THEIR Lord when Allah uses the word THEIR for their Lord?
Shouldn't Allah have used
"whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, US "
2. Can you write a single sentence where a person can use the word THEIR for HIMSELF? or Can you show me a single sentence where THEIR can refer to ME, MYSELF, I or US?
3. Shouldn't Allah have used
"whoever believes in Allah US and the Last Day"


It is obvious that Muhammad wrote this verse forgetting that he should be impersonating Allah

Try and rewrite it in Arabic first before translating it to the English you don't understand indepth!

Ignorance plus arrogance!

TenQ:

Thank you sir at least you can cure my lunacy by answering truthfully to my questions.


Let me go with you here: FIVE groups of people
1. Muslims = Follow Mohammed
2. Jews = Follow Moses
3. Christians = Follow Jesus
4. Sabians = Follow Constellations
5. Whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good

There is NO iota of indication in the VERSE if they fear Allah or NOT: if there is please show me.

Let me prove it with a simple Question
Please read Bukhari 2926 AND tell me if the Muslims will kill ALL the Jews or separate the Jews that refuse to fear Allah?
Sahih al-Bukhari 2926
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."




"they shall have their reward from THEIR LORD. "
AND
"they shall have their reward from US "
Mean complete different things.
Quran 12:1
Alif, Lam, Ra. These are the verses of the clear Book.

Quran 3:7
He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.
Allah wrote a book in which the allegorical parts are impossible for the target audience to understand: however, Qur'an 2:62 is NOT allegorical. Is it?

If Qur'an 2:62 is NOT allegorical, we can assume that it is very clear and means exactly what it says


According to the Islamic standard narrative which breaks down on scrutiny.
Your answer causes a problem
It is either
1. Mohammed wrote this verse forgetting that he should be impasonating Allah
OR
2. Allah was referring to the Lord of the Christians, the Jews and the Sabians as different from himself
Proof:
Can you show me a single sentence where THEIR can refer to ME, MYSELF, I or US?



How can Allah be THEIR Lord when Allah uses the word THEIR for their Lord?

Proof:
Can you write a single sentence where a person can use the word THEIR for HIMSELF

I guess I need some lectures in English language from you.


You seem to forget that Allah was making a LIST of those whom THEIR Lord will save on the Last day. Your highlight in YELLOW is the 5th category it is NOT an umbrella characteristics.

Proof:
Quran 2:62
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُوا۟ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ وَٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ مَنْ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلْـَٔاخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَـٰلِحًۭا فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ

I want to believe that you know that WA[/i] in Arabic means [i]AND!
and MAN in Arabic mean WHOEVER
1. Indeed those who Believed (إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟)
2. AND Those who became Jews (ءَامَنُوا۟ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُوا۟)
3. AND the Christians (وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ)
4. AND the Sabians (وَٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ)
5. WHOEVER [/b]believed in Allah (وَٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ مَنْ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّهِ) and the last day and did righteous deeds (وَٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلْـَٔاخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَـٰلِحًۭا)

[b]Proof:
This is a LIST that is EXCLUSIVE ( that is: it doesn't mean that it refers to a person who is BOTH a Muslim, a Christian, A Jew, a Sabian and also believed in Allah).
That is it is sufficient for a person to be EITHER a Muslim OR a Jew OR a Christian OR a Sabian OR Whoever Believed in Allah and the last day and did Righteous deeds.

Let me help Allah rewrite the Ayah in such a way that it will go with your standard Islamic narrative.

Qur'an 2:62
Surely those who believe (Muslims), and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians , whoever THAT believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord US, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

See how I have helped Allah to write the Quran in a perfectly un-ambiguous way according to your standard Islamic narrative.

Question:
1. Is it UNTRUE that the WHOSOEVER mentioned in Quran 2;62 refers to ANYONE ELSE (Not a Muslim, nor a Jew, nor a Christian nor a Sabian) but believes in Allah and the Last day and does good?
2. If you say this is UNTRUE, what happens to the people of the 124,000 islamic prophets sent to China, America, Germany, Costa Rica , Ibadan, Oyo etc?

Note that the people of Noah are not Jews, the people of Abraham are not Jews and Allah says in Quran 10:47
Quran 10:47
And for every nation there is a messenger. And when their messenger cometh (on the Day of Judgment) it will be judged between them fairly, and they will not be wronged.





You could have checked the foolery of my bigotry in christianization of Quran 2:62 by answering this question
Question:
1. Is it UNTRUE that the WHOSOEVER mentioned in Quran 2;62 refers to ANYONE ELSE (Not a Muslim, nor a Jew, nor a Christian nor a Sabian) but believes in Allah and the Last day and does good?
2. If you say this is UNTRUE, what happens to the people of the 124,000 islamic prophets sent to China, America, Germany, Costa Rica , Ibadan, Oyo etc?


I ask you to look at my correction of the Quran 2:62 to confirm if it says exactly what you desire it to say? LOL!!

I guess you didn't know that Quran 2:62 and Quran 5:69 are fairly IDENTICAL and thus offer no added message
Quran 5:69
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُوا۟ وَٱلصَّـٰبِـُٔونَ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ مَنْ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلْـَٔاخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَـٰلِحًۭا فَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ

Quran 22:17 replaced the Sabians with the Magians (if you want me to take them as identical) and it added the IDOLATERS: claiming that Allah will judge between them on the day of resurrection. If you had read AntiChristian's write-up, you wouldn't have goofed this bad
Quran 22:17
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُوا۟ وَٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ وَٱلْمَجُوسَ وَٱلَّذِينَ أَشْرَكُوٓا۟ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَفْصِلُ بَيْنَهُمْ يَوْمَ ٱلْقِيَـٰمَةِ ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ شَهِيدٌ

Actually I didn't goof but there's no way you can explain to a kindergarten that 3 minus 4 = -1.

It's just useless, stupid and a waste of time!

honesttalk21:
Perhaps it's a big deal then again it may not.
Allah often refers to himself in plural to connote divine majesty or royalty.

This is an ancient Arabian rhetorical method that has fallen into disuse in both modern Arabic and modern English. This has led modern readers to misunderstand pronominal references to God using the majestic “we” as a Quranic justification for the Trinity or for idolatry.

Don't know if this can be compared to Yoruba language where elders are addressed as won.

I really shouldn't be on threads originated by the OP more so when it often appears to be a ploy for ridicule and play.

Exactly! But may just respond sometimes according to your capacity and the time available to you.

Whoever is destined to perish will of course be dumb to the truth!

AntiChristian:


Try and rewrite it in Arabic first before translating it to the English you don't understand indepth!

Ignorance plus arrogance!

I translated it into Arabic!
Did you not see it in the other post?

Let me copy it here for you



Proof:
Quran 2:62
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُوا۟ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ وَٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ مَنْ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلْـَٔاخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَـٰلِحًۭا فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ

I want to believe that you know that WA in Arabic means AND!
and MAN in Arabic mean WHOEVER
1. Indeed those who Believed (إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟)
2. AND Those who became Jews (ءَامَنُوا۟ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُوا۟)
3. AND the Christians (وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ)
4. AND the Sabians (وَٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ)
5. WHOEVER believed in Allah (وَٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ مَنْ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّهِ) and the last day and did righteous deeds (وَٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلْـَٔاخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَـٰلِحًۭا)

AntiChristian:


Actually I didn't goof but there's no way you can explain to a kindergarten that 3 minus 4 = -1.

It's just useless, stupid and a waste of time!

Thank you!

As far as anyone can see, it is you who can't answer simple questions from observations made from your Quran.

Instead of your 3 minus 4 = -1 example, how difficult could the explanation be even to sincere Muslims who I help to ask questions about the Qur'an they would never have asked?

AntiChristian:


Exactly! But may just respond sometimes according to your capacity and the time available to you.

Whoever is destined to perish will of course be dumb to the truth!

honesttalk21 was at least able to give a cogent Argument of the Almighty Allah's use of plural pronoun such as WE or US for himself, unfortunately you hadn't been able to logically probe anything except repeat your memorised narratives!

Why is it that Allah wrote the Qur'an for Humans yet decided to make it unintelligible for them?

TenQ:

I didn't know that you are so educated like this?
What is your religion if you have one and who is your teacher : I think I will like to learn from you.
LOL


Like us Adventist's and those who practice Judaism, our God should be SAT for Saturn: don't you think so?
In Saudi Arabia, Christians go to church on Fridays making the Saudi Christian's God being FRI. You can help me with the identity Fri as I am not that knowledgeable in this thing

If you can humble yourself enough you can learn. Before your religions their was a Way all your religion copied from. Your bible said the ancient path is the good way. Truth is not given to the proud. You are blinded with religion and can never accept anything against it. All the day of your worship is dedicated to a lord according to Gregorian calender. If your religion is connected to that lord, you worship it. You can never understand how these things work. Non of you seek the true God but lesser gods/lords