IyfeNamikaze:

to set the record straight, what happened in cannan was a result of the people fearing to approach Jesus, so they had to ask Mary. there was no saying that Christ would have denied them their request if they had come in person. They just didn't know him Well enough. and whoever that asks Mary to pray for them should be ashamed to call themselves Christians because that person actually doesn't know Christ and has no business associating themselves with Christians.

Christ is open for all to approach at any given time ! he gave his life for us and after that he is still knocking on the door of our hearts, He wants to come into our lives. he is meek and gentle. he ascended to heaven and still sent the holy spirit to us and he also promised to always be with us.
if you actually are a Christian, you would have known better. Oh... I have never asked anyone to pray for me. you can preach to me and close the prayers ( as long as there is room for a general AMEN )

You are wrong brother. Canaan was Christ's very first miracle as portrayed by the scriptures. You think its by chance that he performed that miracle on Mary's request even when he made it clear that his time had not yet come? Also Mary in that part was clearly showing to the people present her son who she knew was the saviour of men. That's why she said to the servants...."Do whatever he tells you". That's the same way she points Jesus to us today and tells us to "do whatever Jesus tells us".

Ichiato:

I don't understand your point here. Is it the fact that mary is not visible to my eyes that qualifies it as idolatry? Or the fact that I stand in front of her statue? If it is the fact that mary is not visible to my eyes then I honestly don't know why you call yourself a Christian cos the same can be said for christ but if its because I stand in front of a statue then I can tell you that the statue is in ni way what am bowing to. The purpose of the statue is to bring the image and person of mary to my mind. I believe mary is in heaven and I bow to her in respect and ask for her intercestion simple.

and what does the Bible say concerning making an image of something /someone in heaven and bowing to it? and how did you know she is already in heaven? and even if she is, what is her role in heaven? (Cuz I think al the heavenly bodies in heaven have roles which they play as it was said in revelation )

What I'm about to show here will offend many & surprise many more. But I appeal that whatever anyone feels, kindly read some books before commenting this way or that way. Hope we understand ourselves.

"If you know your history, then you will know where U're coming from"

Know this, the Catholic faith did not start the Mother & Child or Mary worship. They are ancient Babylonian pagan practises, which shows the influence that paganism has had in the Roman Catholicism development. That's why they create dogmas and all forms of beliefs to find a way to bring the Babylonian religions as close as possible to scriptures, an impossible marriage.

The Chinese had a mother goddess called Shingmoo or the Holy Mother. The ancient Germans worshiped the virgin Hertha. The mother goddes was known as Venus or Fortuna to her devotees in the olden days of Rome, and her child as Jupiter. Regardless of her name or place, a writer says "she was the wife of Baal, the virgin queen of heaven, who bore fruit although she never conceived.

In Ephesus, the great mother was known as Diana. The temple dedicated to her in that city was one of the 7 wonders of the ancient world. In Egypt, the mother was known as Isis and her child as Horus.

Those are not my findings, but those of historians. There are many books on the evolution of the Roman Catholic religion. But my reference is titled Babylon Mystery Religion, Ancient and Modern by Ralph Edward Wondrow.

Buy, read and clear your doubts.

IyfeNamikaze:

to set the record straight, what happened in cannan was a result of the people fearing to approach Jesus, so they had to ask Mary. there was no saying that Christ would have denied them their request if they had come in person. They just didn't know him Well enough. and whoever that asks Mary to pray for them should be ashamed to call themselves Christians because that person actually doesn't know Christ and has no business associating themselves with Christians.

Christ is open for all to approach at any given time ! he gave his life for us and after that he is still knocking on the door of our hearts, He wants to come into our lives. he is meek and gentle. he ascended to heaven and still sent the holy spirit to us and he also promised to always be with us.
if you actually are a Christian, you would have known better. Oh... I have never asked anyone to pray for me. you can preach to me and close the prayers ( as long as there is room for a general AMEN )

You are slowly trying to contradict yourself. Y were they scared of going to ask Jesus themselves and most importantly y did they consider mary an appropraite person to ask jesus. And if mary didn't know her role as an intercesor she could have ask them to go and ask him theirselves don't you think?

freeradical:
its you that is implying that Mary is just one robot that God made for the purpose of bearing Jesus. because she is a robot to you she doesn't play any part to your salvation. Hence she is even to you less than the likes of Peter, John, Paul and all the prophets.

What I'm saying to the unbiased xtian minds out dia is that God chose Mary for the task from time immemorial. From what we know abt God he gave man free will. All the prophesies in the old testamanet about the virgin birth of the messiah is a testament to the divine plan of God. He formed her like he formed every one of us but made her specially sinless unlike us because she was going to carry God. Yes we xtians agree that Jesus Christ is God (the holy immortal One) so how can a vessel smeared in sin carry him. As catholics we believe that Jesus Christ had a dual nature of God and Man. So evidently when Mary exercising her free will chos to be the handmaid of the Lord she became the Mother of God! The honour catholics render to her also glorifies God because it is the Lord that lifted her from her lowliness for all generations(catholics) to call her blessed. Ave Maria!

My God! so Mary was the one who choose to be the vessel and not God! so she can do and undo the plans of God because she has the freewill to do so? YOU Are lost! and by the way, she is not the mother of Christ in heaven. the risen Christ has nothing to do with her.

geniusbami:
What I'm about to show here will offend many & surprise many more. But I appeal that whatever anyone feels, kindly read some books before commenting this way or that way. Hope we understand ourselves.

"If you know your history, then you will know where U're coming from"

Know this, the Catholic faith did not start the Mother & Child or Mary worship. They are ancient Babylonian pagan practise, which shows the influence that paganism has had in the Roman Catholicism development. That's why they create dogmas and all forms of beliefs to find a way to bring the Babylonian religions as close as possible to scriptures, an impossible marriage.

The Chinese had a mother goddess called Shingmoo or the Holy Mother. The ancient Germans worshiped the virgin Hertha. The mother goddes was known as Venus or Fortuna to her devotees in the olden days of Rome, and her child as Jupiter. Regardless of her name or place, a writer says "she was the wife of Baal, the virgin queen of heaven, who bore fruit although she never conceived.

In Ephesus, the great mother was known as Diana. The temple dedicated to her in that city was one of the 7 wonders of the ancient world. In Egypt, the mother was known as Isis and her child as Horus.

Those are not my findings, but those of historians. There are many books on the evolution of the Roman Catholic religion. But my reference is titled Babylon Mystery Religion, Ancient and Modern by Ralph Edward Wondrow.

Buy, read and clear your doubts.

what is this one saying. Ur unbelief in the catholic doctrines are your own dogmas. Every denomination have their own tenets and belief pattern. There is no truth in your write-up neither do I see any correlations between the pagan practices you listed above with the catholic church's theological teachings on all matters of xtian faith! Face it the Church is the teacher of all the faithful on earth and the fact that some of yo choose to pick and choose what you accept from the church's numerous teachings doesn't make you better than the Mother Church

freeradical:
I hope you have never bowed before your Daddy GO ever before. She is not a sinner but the refuge for sinners. You think she was born in david's lineage by chance....think bro there was a divine salvation plan

she was a sinner. unto sin was she born. her father knew her mother and thus she was conceived. she prays for forgiveness.
if she was spotless, why did Christ have to come and die for us? why didn't God use her instead?

For me o,I will respect Mary and honour her being the mother of my Savior. Some christians worship and honour pastor's wife or mother,they respect and bow down to the wife of the president,governors and senators. They bow and kneel down for the wife of their pastor to pray for them or bless down on the alter.

And they believe Mary the mother of christ,the woman that brought our savior,the king of kings and the God of pastors and presidents into this world does not deserve respect and honour.

freeradical:
St. Joseph is also highly honoured by the Church because he is the foster father or Jesus. We acknowledge that he is a saint and he can also intercede for us.

this is even more serious than earlier stipulated.

Here's the paperback. If anyone reads this and similar books on the evolution of the Roman Catholic Church, U will cease to think reasoning will change them, cos "the god of this world has blinded their eyes so the light of the glorious gospel should not enter their minds.

freeradical:
You are wrong brother. Canaan was Christ's very first miracle as portrayed by the scriptures. You think its by chance that he performed that miracle on Mary's request even when he made it clear that his time had not yet come? Also Mary in that part was clearly showing to the people present her son who she knew was the saviour of men. That's why she said to the servants...."Do whatever he tells you". That's the same way she points Jesus to us today and tells us to "do whatever Jesus tells us".

OK let me get this straight, you pray to Mary to intercede on your behalf... she does what you asked her to do, the she gives you feedback, telling you to know do whatever Christ tells you to do? is that how the whole thing works or am I missing something?

KingsleyJay:
[b][/b]

@ the bolded

are u kidding me? ?
do u actually read ur bible? or u read its back

Mary the mother of jesus had other kids
Jesus had earthly siblings, dont misinterpret ur bible dude

dude did u even read my comment beyond d emboldened. Try doing dat before commenting

IyfeNamikaze:

she was a sinner. unto sin was she born. her father knew her mother and thus she was conceived. she prays for forgiveness.
if she was spotless, why did Christ have to come and die for us? why didn't God use her instead?

you are sounding like an atheist already. God's ways cannot be understood thru human logic. If I'm to join in ur skewed sense of reasoning I'd ask u "why did God even hav to send Jesus Christ to save us....he's omnipotent isn't he? He shud have just yellled hakuna matata and whoosh Mankind is saved!

IyfeNamikaze:


and what does the Bible say concerning making an image of something /someone in heaven and bowing to it? and how did you know she is already in heaven? and even if she is, what is her role in heaven? (Cuz I think al the heavenly bodies in heaven have roles which they play as it was said in revelation )

The specifically adds that you should not worship that image. That is to give to an images the respect and honor that is deserving of God. Again I say that Catholics in no way worship images, these images only bring to mind the person and image of christ or mary as the case may be. King David and the ark of Gods convenant usually made of bronze and very well revered by the isrealites is one of such examples in the bible where images are used to Good use to serve God. Please note that Mary would later become the ark of God's convenant and Christ blood on the cross the actual convenant that reconciles us to God. You asked how am sure mary is in heaven again I will state again that you go and read revelation 12: 1-17 "the woman and the dragon" and say what you make of it. As for her role in heaven? She serves God and intercedes for us like all other saints in heaven.

Ichiato:

You are slowly trying to contradict yourself. Y were they scared of going to ask Jesus themselves and most importantly y did they consider mary an appropraite person to ask jesus. And if mary didn't know her role as an intercesor she could have ask them to go and ask him theirselves don't you think?

I have already answered those questions in the comment you just quoted. READ IT

now do you know that Christ didn't grant Mary audience all the time in the Bible, yet you see her as an intercessor. doesn't that mean that Christ never saw her as such?

IyfeNamikaze:


this is even more serious than earlier stipulated.

well that's an argument for another day or should I say another thread. This one is on the Blessed virgin mary. If you want to understand the church's teaching on why we ask for intercession from saints I suggest you open another thread for it

Should be ashamed of my self because you say so. Smh! Anybody that refuses to honour the mother of our lord should be ashamed of himself. What makes you a chrirtian when you have nothing but utter disrespect and disregard for the mother of the one you purport to be your lord and saviour. Smh. And you even seem to be a bit obtuse. Didn't you see where i explained that we 'pray to jesus' directly and also ask her mother to help us with her own prayers. But I'm not surprised because i'm familiar with pentecosters' attitude of wilfully refusing to see your points ( willful ignorance). Btw Jesus knew that wine had finished and was not willing to do anything because his time had not come until the request came through an irrepudiable channel. Amen! Ave Maria!

IyfeNamikaze:

to set the record straight, what happened in cannan was a result of the people fearing to approach Jesus, so they had to ask Mary. there was no saying that Christ would have denied them their request if they had come in person. They just didn't know him Well enough. and whoever that asks Mary to pray for them should be ashamed to call themselves Christians because that person actually doesn't know Christ and has no business associating themselves with Christians.

Christ is open for all to approach at any given time ! he gave his life for us and after that he is still knocking on the door of our hearts, He wants to come into our lives. he is meek and gentle. he ascended to heaven and still sent the holy spirit to us and he also promised to always be with us.
if you actually are a Christian, you would have known better. Oh... I have never asked anyone to pray for me. you can preach to me and close the prayers ( as long as there is room for a general AMEN )

IyfeNamikaze:

OK let me get this straight, you pray to Mary to intercede on your behalf... she does what you asked her to do, the she gives you feedback, telling you to know do whatever Christ tells you to do? is that how the whole thing works or am I missing something?

Read what I wrote and stop implying something else. Read it slowly and understand afterall its written in English.

freeradical:
you are sounding like an atheist already. God's ways cannot be understood thru human logic. If I'm to join in ur skewed sense of reasoning I'd ask u "why did God even hav to send Jesus Christ to save us....he's omnipotent isn't he? He shud have just yellled hakuna matata and whoosh Mankind is saved!

Sorry if I sounded like an atheist, but can you kindly show me where it was written that she was blameless an spotless?

Octaves:
Should be ashamed of my self because you say so. Smh! Anybody that refuses to honour the mother of our lord should be ashamed of himself. What makes you a chrirtian when you have nothing but utter disrespect and disregard for the mother of the one you purport to be your lord and saviour. Smh. And you even seem to be a bit obtuse. Didn't you see where i explained that we 'pray to jesus' directly and also ask her mother to help us with her own prayers. But I'm not surprised because i'm familiar with pentecosters' attitude of wilfully refusing to see your points ( willful ignorance). Btw Jesus knew that wine had finished and was not willing to do anything because his time had not come until the request came through an irrepudiable channel. Amen! Ave Maria!

if i may ask, pls where is Mary now? isn't she going to be judge by God on the last day just as everyone else? or is she a higher being?

Ichiato:

The specifically adds that you should not worship that image. That is to give to an images the respect and honor that is deserving of God. Again I say that Catholics in no way worship images, these images only bring to mind the person and image of christ or mary as the case may be. King David and the ark of Gods convenant usually made of bronze and very well revered by the isrealites is one of such examples in the bible where images are used to Good use to serve God. Please note that Mary would later become the ark of God's convenant and Christ blood on the cross the actual convenant that reconciles us to God. You asked how am sure mary is in heaven again I will state again that you go and read revelation 12: 1-17 "the woman and the dragon" and say what you make of it. As for her role in heaven? She serves God and intercedes for us like all other saints in heaven.

I don't remember it being said anywhere that she became the Ark of God's covenant ...etc.
and nowhere was is said in any book of the Bible that she serve as our intercessor.

and the Bible would never omit something so vital as that.

dabriggs:



Ha ha ha...Ok so when the bible says

''While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him.Someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You...''

and

''Isn't this the carpenter? Isn't this Mary's son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren't his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him''.


It could have meant his relatives with his mother?

ha ha ha okay fine. So let us assume that suddenly it was just his cousins with his mother, are we saying Joseph who never divorced her did not sleep with Mary? Are we saying they did not or would not have had sexual contact? Did God expressly remove the desire for sex from Mary who is human? Or was Joseph staying with her forever without the desire of having sex with her?

If these things are almost impossible, then are we saying Mary lost the ability to give birth after Christ was born?

think of it objectively urself. Will jesus handover his mother to john and say woman behold your son, is she had any other son? (John 19:26). Furthermore, if jesus had any siblings (sister in particular) wouldn't they be with his mother at the foot of the cross at his dying moments? If a woman that is not his biological sister could take the risk and wipe his face with a cloth on his toturous journey to death does it make sense that is he had any biological sister at that time she wouldn't be mentioned? Food for thot my brother

Octaves:
Should be ashamed of my self because you say so. Smh! Anybody that refuses to honour the mother of our lord should be ashamed of himself. What makes you a chrirtian when you have nothing but utter disrespect and disregard for the mother of the one you purport to be your lord and saviour. Smh. And you even seem to be a bit obtuse. Didn't you see where i explained that we 'pray to jesus' directly and also ask her mother to help us with her own prayers. But I'm not surprised because i'm familiar with pentecosters' attitude of wilfully refusing to see your points ( willful ignorance). Btw Jesus knew that wine had finished and was not willing to do anything because his time had not come until the request came through an irrepudiable channel. Amen! Ave Maria!

if i may ask, pls where is Mary now? isn't she going to be judge by God on the last day just as everyone else? or is she a higher being?.......

Octaves:
Should be ashamed of my self because you say so. Smh! Anybody that refuses to honour the mother of our lord should be ashamed of himself. What makes you a chrirtian when you have nothing but utter disrespect and disregard for the mother of the one you purport to be your lord and saviour. Smh. And you even seem to be a bit obtuse. Didn't you see where i explained that we 'pray to jesus' directly and also ask her mother to help us with her own prayers. But I'm not surprised because i'm familiar with pentecosters' attitude of wilfully refusing to see your points ( willful ignorance). Btw Jesus knew that wine had finished and was not willing to do anything because his time had not come until the request came through an irrepudiable channel. Amen! Ave Maria!

show me where I have disrespected Mary please. you are just being to hateful and angry at nothing.
if she is the intercessor as you claim, why did Christ deny her audience when he was with the disciples and crowd

IyfeNamikaze:

My God! so Mary was the one who choose to be the vessel and not God! so she can do and undo the plans of God because she has the freewill to do so? YOU Are lost! and by the way, she is not the mother of Christ in heaven. the risen Christ has nothing to do with her.

Stop driving words into is mouth. Mary agreed and accepted the role God gave her. And her work in bringing salvation to mankind did not just stop at were she agreed to the plan but also continued till christ was able to care for himself. She carried the baby jesus for nine month and gave birth, went through all the trouble to protect him herold and so on. Get it?

Mary is in heaven. Shey I don waste my mb to spell it out 4 u

kelnas:
if i may ask, pls where is Mary now? isn't she going to be judge by God on the last day just as everyone else? or is she a higher being?

freeradical:
St. Joseph is also highly honoured by the Church because he is the foster father or Jesus. We acknowledge that he is a saint and he can also intercede for us.

error

Ichiato:

Stop driving words into is mouth. Mary agreed and accepted the role God gave her. And her work in bringing salvation to mankind did not just stop at were she agreed to the plan but also continued till christ was able to care for himself. She carried the baby jesus for nine month and gave birth, went through all the trouble to protect him herold and so on. Get it?

Noooo! she didn't go through all trouble to protect him. God was the one doing all the protection job.
and it's not as if she had much of a choice considering the nature of things between her and Joseph + those who knew her to be betrothed to him

and not to mention she was a God fearing woman.

Pls quote the bible passage ( chapter and verse) here let me see because You peeps like quoting out of context. And tell me why Jesus agreed to perform his first miracle before his time came just because of Mary

IyfeNamikaze:

show me where I have disrespected Mary please. you are just being to hateful and angry at nothing.
if she is the intercessor as you claim, why did Christ deny her audience when he was with the disciples and crowd

Octaves:
Mary is in heaven. Shey I don waste my mb to spell it out 4 u

Young man go and read your Bible properly...ooh i forgot, u guys(chatolics) Don't read de Bible, u only recite Holy Poems. Stop worshipping humans like you.

IyfeNamikaze:

I don't remember it being said anywhere that she became the Ark of God's covenant ...etc.
and nowhere was is said in any book of the Bible that she serve as our intercessor.

and the Bible would never omit something so vital as that.

Again your logic that everything has to be in the bible for it to be true is wrong. For prove that mary is the ark of the convenant see this site www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/mary-the-ark-of-the-new-covenant
And again in previous post I see you using the situation where christ did not grant mary audience as prove. We Catholics have never claimed that praying through mary is a guarantee that what ever you ask will be granted. God alone know what's best but there is a better chance that he will listen to his mother just at the wedding feast in cannan. At this point I will like to say am tired and I'm no longer seeing the relevance of my posts as it seems am just circum navigating repeating what have said right from the start. Thank you.

IyfeNamikaze:


Noooo! she didn't go through all trouble to protect him. God was the one doing all the protection job.
and it's not as if she had much of a choice considering the nature of things between her and Joseph + those who knew her to be betrothed to him

and not to mention she was a God fearing woman.

No she did not go tru any trouble she just sat down in a cool range rover sport with AC while God did the protecting.