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"Stop Giving Offerings In Redeemed Churches If....." - Pastor Adeboye / Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles / Give Your 'Tithes' And Offerings To The Less Fortunate In Church (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 3:19pm On Oct 13, 2014 |
You say giving is not a requirement (whatever that means), yet you do it or claim to. If we say tithing is not a requirement(whatever that means), you will INSIST don't do it. Double standard. edited. Sorry I missed the second not. 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 4:19pm On Oct 13, 2014 |
WinsomeX:HAhahahahahaha, keep contradicting yourself, this is what you said earlier. WinsomeX:When i showed you your folly, you decided to do damage control. Welldone you hear. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 4:28pm On Oct 13, 2014 |
MarkMiwerds: In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should earn their living by the gospel. International Standard Version In the same way, the Lord has ordered that those who proclaim the gospel should make their living from the gospel. NET Bible In the same way the [size=16pt]Lord commanded those who proclaim the gospel to receive their living by the gospel. [/size] Aramaic Bible in Plain English In this way also our Lord commands that those who preach his Gospel shall live from his Gospel. GOD'S WORD® Translation In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who spread the Good News should earn their living from the Good News. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by WinsomeX: 4:29pm On Oct 13, 2014 |
Mr Whatever-that-means, if you have ever written a vague text, this one will take number one. But let me assume I understand you. Image123: If I claim giving is not a requirement I mean this: 1. Giving is not compulsory. 2. Giving is not a prerequisite. If it is, that put an end to the grace concept in the NT. 3. Giving is not law. 4. But giving is fruit of Christian love and that is what compels. Not a requirement. If you understand this, you will understand why I am at liberty to give or not. Image123: Tithing is not a requirement in the NT. I cannot see a double standard there. You may however shed more light on whatever-you-mean by double standard. 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 4:30pm On Oct 13, 2014 |
Image123: REQUIRE IS A VERB in this case: to impose a compulsion or command on : compel |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by WinsomeX: 6:54pm On Oct 13, 2014 |
Bidam: You are being dishonest when you quote a scripture like that to support a premise that giving is a COMMANDMENT in the NT in the manner in which you are teaching it: law or a requirement or compulsion. See: Bidam: If that scripture is saying we are COMMANDED to give in that manner, where do we put a scripture like this one that clearly says that giving should be willing: 2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. Therefore to see giving in the overall light of the NT, including that scripture you have quoted, we must agree that Jesus commanded that ministers are to be supported by those who they minister to. Quite naturally, we won't expect the secular world to pay the ministers that preach to us. But even at that, ministers are supported by church finances that come from a pool of resources put together by the willing giving of members of the church. To interpret the 1Cor 9 scripture to mean bc ministers are to be paid therefore you must give o, is to do injustice to scriptures. Now what did our Lord COMMAND? Look at it here: Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10:11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. 10:12 And when ye come into an house, salute it. 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. Luke 10:2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. 10:3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. 10:7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house. 10:8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you: Read the whole scripture. The Matthew scripture showed Jesus commanded his disciples. The Luke scripture showed how he instructed for them to provided for: Verse 7: eat such things as they give. Verse 8: eat such things as set before you. In addition with his emphasis that freely you have received, freely you should give. In these scripture Christ referred to the immediate need of his ministers: food. In the 1 Cor9 scripture this food can translate to money but in both of them we see how the provision should come: free will - such things as they give; such things as they set before you. Freely you give. Bidam, there is nowhere in the bible Jesus commanded a tithe to be given to his NT ministers. And even when he commanded for their provision, the context obviously speaks of free will. So understand now what I meant when I said God commanded us to give... This is what he commanded: free will giving. 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 7:15pm On Oct 13, 2014 |
WinsomeX: I edited the post just now. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by WinsomeX: 7:38pm On Oct 13, 2014 |
Image123: I think I get what you mean now: you are saying if anti tithers do not see giving as a requirement and thus are at liberty to give or not; we should also maintain the same stance for tithing which we also see as not a requirement. We shouldn't insist people should not tithe. To do so is to maintain double standard. I agree with you. If this is the attitude, then it is double standard indeed. I do not tithe. I also accept the label anti tither, not bc it depicts who I truly am but bc it's the cliche here for all non tithers. The second thing is that I am at this point not speaking for all non tithers. My position really on all matters of church life is LIBERTY. Do as God compels you. The only thing I believe I must insist on is preaching sound doctrine and calling sinners to repentance. Even the matter of holiness I leave to each man to do as God leads them. Concerning giving then, I insist on liberty. Thus concerning tithing, the same thing: liberty. I however have issues with those who make tithing compulsory or who insist on it in a subtle manner like Bidam is doing. That's my position. 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 8:24pm On Oct 13, 2014 |
WinsomeX:The scripture you quoted NEVER said "do not give" infact it stated EMPHATICALLY that God loves a cheerful giver, in other words if you don't even give cheerfully your tithes and offerings might not be acceptable before God. The anti-tithing mantra that you people always use that giving should be driven by love is worn out...it is a well known fact that most antithers choose to give whatever they "feel" like or choose not to give at all. There is no record of those specific words of Jesus when you made reference to Mathew 10:10 and Luke 10:8 just as there is no record in the four gospels when Paul quoted Jesus saying "it is more blessed to give than to receive". At best you can find it "in principles" and that was why i told you that Paul used the Law of Moses to buttress a point that it is compulsory/REQUIRED/mandatory/obligatory/right for the spiritual work of God's ministers to be repaid with the MATERIAL support of the people they minister unto. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by brocab: 10:08pm On Oct 13, 2014 |
Its great in what you are saying, its time to reach out. But even the non-believers these day's are hearing more and more news about our money making churches across our globe. Given them Reasons not to come to christ jesus because? They hear so much news about these beloved money making churches' and many non-believers will try to angue about these crimes, and because of this it stops them coming to christ. We are not gaining the lost souls, we are losing them. Even the elect in our churches have walked away. You all know yourselves when you came to Christ it was a free gift. When I first came to Christ, I had no idea what church go'ers had planned for me, later I was told I had to pay my way, If I knew that before I was saved, I would have walked away from the lord too. After I was saved, believers would tell me, about the tithing messages and how we have to give back 10% to God, to be honest tithing did not make any sence to me either; and the Holy-spirit who lives in me warned me about these tithing messages, at that time being a young christian I had no idea how to listen to the spirit. so I would follow the older believers, believing they will show me the way? I would read my bible, but it took some time before I understood it. Many times back then, I would pray to the lord about tithing, and say lord why is my inner self not agreeing with the tithing messages, I didn't understand, why the lord called me' without a word on tithing. I waited for that answer, and then as time went by the lord had showing me, and now everytime I read my bible verse after verse jumps out of the bible and hits me. There's a truth in this' ask the lord to show you, when you are ready to listen to christ he will show you this truth. No more lies, but truth. While going to churches I also would sit and listen to pastors, believing they are the spiritual heads. I would pay tithes,because I felt I had too, not because I wanted too, I find now by reading my bible, it shows clearly how pastors-preachers would twist the bible around to put fear in our inner-selves, mentally forcing us to pay tithes. So these day's when reaching out to the lost souls, remember they watch Tv's listen to radio's, read newspapers, and the word of mouth, travel's futher across our globe, All news about these money making churches, news about the black flag {muslims}, murdering christians, Their is more non-believers, who are now seeking the endtime news. And fear is traveling fast. its time to act, get right with the lord repent and forgive. Reachout to the lost, tell them the truth, because the truth will set you free.. WinsomeX: |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by WinsomeX: 4:13am On Oct 14, 2014 |
^^^ I agree with you. On the the matter of tithing, conversion, following older believers and being taught by the Spirit, I can testify to this too. Indeed winning the lost, not money making gospel preaching, is our calling. Bidam, I read your response. I have nothing else to say. I believe what has been said to you is sufficient. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 5:42am On Oct 14, 2014 |
WinsomeX:No, don't cop out just yet. There are things the christians are Commanded to do in the new covenant..Love is one of them and giving is also one of them...no middle road or middle ground here, my argument is not about compulsion,coersion,cajoling and the likes from the scripture you quoted. Lemme give you another scriptural witness. How do you explain Paul ORDERING the church in galatia to set aside some money for sunday offerings? ( 1 corinthians 16:1-2). |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by WinsomeX: 9:11am On Oct 14, 2014 |
Bidam: You can call it whatever you like. Bidam: I agree that Christians are Commanded to love. And I have explained to you that the commandment to give is free will giving. Bidam: Is that so? Who said this in response to Image123 and what else did you mean by the statement: Bidam: Bidam: Ah... Finally we find a command in the bible to give by force. So, readers, here we have an ORDER from Paul to you to give and make sure you give by fire, by thunder. Bidam, you are a joke! If I took my time to explain to you what Paul meant by a commandment to give by Jesus and even showed you scriptures showing this command was free will giving, and you are still locked up in your thinking, there is nothing else that can be done for you. Bidam, you have an ORDER from Paul make sure you obey it with dispatch... smh. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 9:32am On Oct 14, 2014 |
WinsomeX:Lol.the joke is on you pal, if you like dont give? Last time i checked freewill giving is practised in the OT. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 11:41am On Oct 14, 2014 |
WinsomeX: Exactly. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by brocab: 2:40am On Oct 16, 2014 |
Thanks WinsomeX: |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 10:43pm On Oct 21, 2014 |
Daily Manna |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 1:20am On Oct 30, 2014 |
-* |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:34pm On Oct 31, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU: 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 5:27pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=27615918][/quote] Timeless truth. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 5:59pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Bidam: Yes, my brother. His Word is settled in heaven forever. 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 7:41pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
God's Word is forever settled in Heaven. Unfortunately, as is quite evident, it is not settled in the hearts of those who teach the monetary tithe requirement doctrine. 2 Likes |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:56pm On Nov 25, 2014 |
MarkMiwerds: God's Words are timeless and does not change. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 9:57pm On Nov 25, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU:you are right... God's Word do not change. Now, tell us who God's Word says are to receive His holy tithes? 2 Likes |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 11:41pm On Nov 25, 2014 |
MarkMiwerds: God, He receiveth them. Will a man rob God? Oh, the nanny advice. No point telling a blind man that the sky is blue. 2 Likes |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 12:51am On Nov 26, 2014 |
Image123:of men, it is the Levites who are to receice the tithes. They are the only representatives on Earth to whom God gave authority to take tithes for the House of God. Blindness to the truth is more detrimental than blindness to color. 2 Likes |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by vooks: 6:49am On Nov 26, 2014 |
It's a shame that modern pharisee parade their works of 10% which is supposed to be based on the Jew's 22%. They have nothing on the Pharisee who is 'not like other men', but they readily beat him in pride 2 Likes |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by dorox(m): 7:37am On Nov 26, 2014 |
Image123:The above statement is mean and insensitive. To take such a cheap shot at someone who is physically blind says a lot about the kind of person you really are. 2 Likes |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 12:50pm On Nov 26, 2014 |
dorox: No it isn't, and you will do well to not complain. Most of the antitithers here are blind in the sense that i used the word. Experience has taught that it really is no use telling them that the sky is blue. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 12:53pm On Nov 26, 2014 |
MarkMiwerds: Again, Melchisedek wasn't levite. Jesus the High Priest of priests is of the order of Melchisedek not Aarons. Your blindness to this simple point is pitiable. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 2:18pm On Nov 26, 2014 |
Image123:Hebrews does say that Jesus is after the order of Melchizedek. I am not blind to that. But is Jesus on the Earth today in person to receive tithes of the brethren? Of course not! But notice also in Hebrews 7:5, that it is the sons of Levi who God says are to receive the tithes... Levites are to take God's holy tithes, not pastors who are not of the lineage and dscendancy of Levi. It is not I who is displaying the blindness you speak of. You have three of your own fingers pointing back at you. 3 Likes |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Goshen360(m): 2:47pm On Nov 26, 2014 |
Image123: No, put it this way: Melchi rained and threaten Abraham with curse of Malachi in order for Abraham to Oh, I just remember now, God must receive His tithe with a representative on earth, no wonder these Pastors like you are "representative of Christ as High priest" and they are threatening with curse from God....Just the Melchi in the order of Christ did to Abraham. 1 Like |
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