AugustineAgain:


The South African black and white doctors running away daily to America will laugh at your 'better' ANC republic

south African doctors were absorbed by American market before ANC came to power....

agaugust:


SANDF Rooikats have a 76mm gun copy of Italian Oto melara. Rooikat gun is reputed incapable of shooting straight.

Mongoose defense system is NOT operational yet
.

Rooikat is accurate up to 2km - as has been posted many times

Mongoose was selected for the Indian T90 upgrades ( where it beat the isrealy trophy system)

AugustineAgain:


Dude, welcome as a newcomer to this forum Mr.South African.

Sorry I cannot repeat my past comments for every new South African that joins this thread, I have over 6,000 comments posted here in over 2 years, so I will not waste my time to please you. Consult the archives.

I posted proof that Rooikat 76mm gun is a COPY of Italian Oto Melara, South Africa copied it with Italian permission and changed the name as you always do to create false claims of 'MADE IS SOUTH AFRICA WEAPONS'

Then you guys turn around and call the Chinese copy cats, what about South African copies of Israeli and European weapons?

The Rooikat gun from the South African inside source I posted here many times, CANNOT shoot straight with accuracy because it is copied from a naval gun that is meant to shoot at big ships on open wide oceans and not small tanks in clutter filled lands and cities.

.

Nope the breech is a copy of the italian design

And your source is a rumor from an artical without citations written by the same women who said mandela was dead when he was not

Citations that the rooikat is accurate up to 2km have been posted many times

AugustineAgain:


The only Rooikat in SANDF sevice is 76mm gun. The other 105mm has one single unit produces and project rejected by SANDF.


Proved : only Rooikat in SANDF sevice is 76mm gun, go fool the kids in your village with your imaginary fairy tales by moonlight
.

Because the 105mm is still under design

The new turret seems to include an autoloader and a heat sheild on the barrel as well as active defence

Just because we have decided that we dont need the 105mm now doesnt mean development on the concept has stopped

AugustineAgain:


Too many errors in your above comment. Let me pick one, the Gripen maneuverability is very poor for a $50 million jet.

I have posted videos of it here and compared it with Algerian Su-30 Flanker, no South African dared to argue when both videos were posted here side by side in comparison. The greatest weaknesses of Gripen jet are the poor maneuverability for air to air dogfight and poor combat radius/range.

Sweden's just ripping people off with that price tag, same way their Volvo cars perform less than Toyota cars but the Swedish car cost much more than the Japanese....also add the bad fuel economy of Volvo cars and the Volvo engine inside the Gripen.

Sweden's SAAB manufacturer had to bribe South African politicians with millions of dollars to manipulate them to buy Gripen jets, a jet that buyers need to be bribed with money to purchase, must be a problem loaded jet and surely over-priced

For JF-17 Vs Gripen, @Henry posted a chart to prove JF-17 Block I is eqaul to Gripen, and @agaugust posted detailed descriptions to prove why the JF-17 Block 2 beats the Gripen, so if any South African wants to challenge Nigerians, post your own detailed sources and stop grumbling like a labouring worker not paid salary for the past 12 months
.

No one argued because no one took it seriously- conparing low altitude maneuvers designed for carrier landings to combat maneuvers

I have posted sources that clearly outline how the junk fighter is underpowered and has poor performance

The comparison chart shows that the gripen carrys more and flys faster how does that suggest they are equal?

No bribery has ever been proven in the Gripen deal

AugustineAgain:


You are more likely a South African.

Your written English and composition of language is very similar to the pattern of we Africans, when a non-African writes so long an English passage, I will tell the difference because I live in an English speaking country where all nationalities/tribes/tongues/races from across the world live and we can tell the difference from how they write and speak English language.

I suspect you are a fake, you are very very likely a South African making false claims of Nationality here.

Now a few answers for you as reply to all the errors and ignorance you displayed in your aircraft analysis.

You call your self an aviation enthusiast and you don't know that most jet fighters of today evolved from older models

MiG-21 evolved to MiG-23, MiG-23 evolved to MiG 25 with extra one tail added, MiG-25 evolved into MiG-29.

Draken evolved into Viggen, Viggen evolved into Gripen.

Only a fool of a pilot will assume that since MiG-21 evolved into MiG-29, when he fights MiG-29 in air combat, it is same as fighting a MiG-21, that pilot will just make his wife a widow and his children fatherless like a fool

JF-17 Thunder is NOT a simple jet and NOT close to F-7 Airguard.

JF-17 engine is Russian, it's avionics are a mix of West European and Chinese, it's weapons are a mix of West European and Chinese.

Italian, French, Russian, American, Chinese, British avionics-weapons-technology are mixed into JF-17 Thunder.

If anyone says JF-17 is junk, then the Europeans are junk manufacturers and the Gripen too is Junk

J-10 Dragon is almost same as JF-17 in capability, the JF-17 was built from the ready made J-10 engineering works, thus the Pakistanis got many things free or cheap from Chinese technology transfer, that is the secret of the cheap price of JF-17 Thunder.

Next, the Chinese will not buy JF-17 because it is same basic engineering works as the J-10, simple common sense.

Why does South Africa not import Israeli MRAPs? You produce yours with about equal capabilities, simple common sense.

I think common sense is one thing you seem to lack, mister MiG-23....your name is an obsolete jet fighter and so is your brain

Thank you sir.

A long post without any citations (unlike the post you are replying to)

Until you prove you are in america your entire argument is invalid

AugustineAgain:


I just posted source that is has HMS and HMD, they are the same thing with two names.

"A helmet-mounted display (HMD) is a device used in some modern aircraft, especially combat aircraft. HMDs project information similar to that of head-up displays (HUD) on an aircrew’s visor or reticle, thereby allowing him to obtain situational awareness and/or cue weapons systems to the direction his head is pointing. Applications which allow cuing of weapon systems are referred to as helmet-mounted sight and display (HMSD) or helmet-mounted sights (HMS)"

Later you will be complaining about the way I answer you, it's all about the crooked way you think and talk, I just retaliate, my nature.

You must be a clown, you were posting photos of MiG-21 to compare it to JF-17 Thunder, real comedian you are, but surely not an aviation expert enthusiast....you know next to nothing except internet copy and paste

Such an emotional post

Hmd and hms are different things, your junk fighter lacks the former

AugustineAgain:


Thanks, you just proved Gripen weapons are inferior to JF-17.

Gripen CANNOT carry or launch long range cruise missiles, stealth missiles, nuclear missiles.

Gripen price is a $50 million junk and Swedish rip off !
.

How is that relevant?

Does nigeria have either?

Nope?

Ok then

AugustineAgain:


Yes, I thought I was replying @MiG-23.....the guy is NOT American, if he wants to drag that with me, I will expose him. I live in America.

You could be the one masquerading as MiG-23, you have already created two different user names/monikers in one day ! LOL !

Soweto fraudsters let loose

Like we exposed you for not living in america?

Still waiting for what you promised this forum

AugustineAgain:


LOL KEPD.35 is NOT a stealth missile like the JF-17 carries stealth missiles, Gripen is inferior.

Secondly, Gripen not able to carry nuclear missile is a big minus and makes it inferior to JF-17.

What is a Gripen user wants to launch it's nuclear missile? Like if India buys Gripen....no wonder India rejected Gripen jets.

Swedish junk of 1998 old time generation.....Gripen jet C/D
.

Does nigeria have nukes?

Answer the question and you realize the irrelevance

EVarn:
so what are you insinuating?,that without denel,the FAB cant developed a powerful AAM?.the FAB hasnt developed a SRAAM yet because of the cost of production and maintenance of equippments they dont see the need.

It will take them time and costly.

1. MAA-1 AAM.

2. MSS 1.22 ATGM.

3. MAA-1B AAM

4. MAR-1 Anti-radiation missile.

5. MAN AshM.

Are some of the missile Brazil is developing or developed.

agaugust:


Anti-radiation missile will knock out all your radars and blind all your air defenses.

ECM will jam all your sensors.

Smoke rockets will blind all your thermal systems.

Unguided rockets in salvo mode cannot be stopped by CRAM especially from 40 JF-17 Thunders.

SANDF is screwed like roasted pork
.

That's what the Skyshield does.

It will destroy anti-radiation missiles, guided munition and RAM(s).

Before the twin guns, you'll have pass the Umkhonto guided by radars.

Did you know: the Thutlwa radar which is part of thee GBADS can detect fighters up to 120KM?

agaugust:


Yes, Algeria is more powerful than South Africa
.

South Africa is powerful than all African countries cause of its advanced defence industry.


Did you know: Algeria and South Africa maintain warm ties?

It was Algeria that trained ANC first's MK soldiers, chosen cause of it successful campaign guerilla against the French.

Today Algeria buys a lot of SA armaments, our soldiers train and take courses in both countries.

agaugust:


SANDF is cash broke.

That's a fact
.

Nigeria spends less on Defence.

That's a fact.

Things in Nigeria are way bad!!!

SOUTH AFRICAN AIRFORCE REFUELLING CAPABILITY....@AUGUSTUS WOULD ATTEMPT TO RUBBISH THIS FACT BY POSTING AN OPINION....FUNNY THAT HE HAS DEVELOPED AN EXPERT OPINION ON SOUTH AFRICAN MILITARY MATTERS WHENEVER IT SUITS HIS CROOKED ANALYSIS

jl115:



Go read the sources again all 3 are based on the Gripen c/d. The e/f models will be classified as 6th gen or at the very least 5+ gen aircraft.

No, the E/F models are classified as 4.5 Gen, not the older C/D models. Those sources were referring specifically to the E/F models, although they didn't differentiate them. It is the E/F model that would have the AESA radar and ISRT.

It is also the E/F model we've seen in that promotional video, set in an African backdrop attacking SU-27's.

jl115:


On a personal note i really hope Nigeria can acquire the JF-17 (although i think the super tucano can do similar job for alot less money) and bomb boko haram out of existence, as for the gripen being based on older models, this is not true n 1979, the Swedish government began development studies for an aircraft capable of fighter, attack and reconnaissance missions to replace the Saab 35 Draken and 37 Viggen. A new design from Saab was selected and developed as the JAS 39.

Does the JF-17 operate a HMD, i have been browsing the web and cant find anything except for the fact that it might operate a HMS(helmet mounted sight) witch is only good for targeting and thats about it? These days its software that counts, the aircraft that sees the enemy first is usually the one that wins.

Nigeria would go for the JF-17 thunder jets, and there are many credible advantages of going for the JF-17 over any other fighter jet.


"How Nigeria lost use of her 18 Ground attack jaguar jets"

"An initial batch of 12 (twelve) single seat variants were supplied and later 6 (six) twin-seat versions which were used for pilot training in the United States were inducted into the NAF.

The Nigerian Air Force was denied the option of purchasing advanced weapons to enhance the deep strike capabilities of the Jaguar jets except for iron bombs of limited effectiveness. A request for in-flight refuelling tankers was also turned down because they could be used to invade neighbouring countries.

It was stipulated that the jets were to be used only for defensive purposes or they ran the risk of a withdrawal of technical support and spare parts and NAF could not resell/transfer the jets to a third party (another country) without approval of British Aerospace (now BAe Systems), UK Ministry of Defense and the House of Commons."



"Sometime in 2007 when these jets were put on display by the NAF for prospective buyers to inspect, it emerged that a Jaguar B TRAINER variant (NAF 703) had flown for only 150 hours 54 minutes since it was manufactured in December 1984. It had its 100 hours inspection on the 10th day of February, 1986. It suggests that the crated fleet of Jaguar jets is almost brand-new still."


With the JF-17, Nigeria would avoid all the Nightmares associated with the Jaguar, plus we would be getting a brand new aircraft with all it's capabilities.


I've always been of the Opinion that Nigeria Requires a COIN based aircraft. Fighter Jets are too fast, and they cannot provide CAS.

The French were successful with their Air Operations in Mali because, they've had surveillance assets in the Area, even before Operation serval began. So, targets were pre-known, and we're timely taken out.

A good example as to why fighter jets aren't good CAS assets is the "battle of Kobani". Over 500 bombing missions in Kobani by coalition forces, yet ISIS is still dug in.

With CAS based assets like the Tucano, ISIS would have been driven off kobani a long time ago.


That been said, i'm happy with the Choice of the JF-17 and possible numbers for the NAF. It is an impressive fighter, with a good loiter time of 5 hours.

NAF only needs to get additional surveillance assets.

jl115:


as for the gripen being based on older models, this is not true n 1979, the Swedish government began development studies for an aircraft capable of fighter, attack and reconnaissance missions to replace the Saab 35 Draken and 37 Viggen. A new design from Saab was selected and developed as the JAS 39.

Does the JF-17 operate a HMD, i have been browsing the web and cant find anything except for the fact that it might operate a HMS(helmet mounted sight) witch is only good for targeting and thats about it? These days its software that counts, the aircraft that sees the enemy first is usually the one that wins.

Generally, Newer Jets are based on older models, it may be untrue for the Gripen, but it's a known fact.

I believe augugust has answered that question.

patches689:


Does nigeria have nukes?

Answer the question and you realize the irrelevance

You tell too many lies.

AugustineAgain:


Quote that part. Confused man !

HMD= HMDs project information similar to that of head-up displays (HUD) on an aircrew’s visor or reticle, thereby allowing him to obtain situational awareness and/or cue weapons systems to the direction his head is pointing, dus targeting plus additional info displayed on hud.
Plus i love how you left out the part where it says we created it first.(These devices were created first by South Africa, then the Soviet Union and followed by the United States)

A helmet-mounted sight (HMS) developed by Luoyang Electro-Optics Technology Development Centre of AVIC was developed in parallel with the JF-17; it was first tested on Prototype 04 in 2006.[71][72] It was dubbed as EO HMS, (Electro-Optical Helmet Mounted Sight) and was first revealed to the public in 2008 at the 7th Zhuhai Airshow, where a partial mock-up was on display.[73] The HMS tracks the pilot's head and eye movements to guide missiles towards the pilot's visual target.

If you are still confused then you are just plain stupd!

AugustineAgain:


Southies are dreamers, they have obsolete Gripen C/D with 20 year old generation radars

Reason why Brazil refused to buy the SAAF's kind of old fashioned Gripen
.

Henry120:


Nigeria would go for the JF-17 thunder jets, and there are many credible advantages of going for the JF-17 over any other fighter jet.


"How Nigeria lost use of her 18 Ground attack jaguar jets"

"An initial batch of 12 (twelve) single seat variants were supplied and later 6 (six) twin-seat versions which were used for pilot training in the United States were inducted into the NAF.

The Nigerian Air Force was denied the option of purchasing advanced weapons to enhance the deep strike capabilities of the Jaguar jets except for iron bombs of limited effectiveness. A request for in-flight refuelling tankers was also turned down because they could be used to invade neighbouring countries.

It was stipulated that the jets were to be used only for defensive purposes or they ran the risk of a withdrawal of technical support and spare parts and NAF could not resell/transfer the jets to a third party (another country) without approval of British Aerospace (now BAe Systems), UK Ministry of Defense and the House of Commons."



"Sometime in 2007 when these jets were put on display by the NAF for prospective buyers to inspect, it emerged that a Jaguar B TRAINER variant (NAF 703) had flown for only 150 hours 54 minutes since it was manufactured in December 1984. It had its 100 hours inspection on the 10th day of February, 1986. It suggests that the crated fleet of Jaguar jets is almost brand-new still."


With the JF-17, Nigeria would avoid all the Nightmares associated with the Jaguar, plus we would be getting a brand new aircraft with all it's capabilities.


I've always been of the Opinion that Nigeria Requires a COIN based aircraft. Fighter Jets are too fast, and they cannot provide CAS.

The French were successful with their Air Operations in Mali because, they've had surveillance assets in the Area, even before Operation serval began. So, targets were pre-known, and we're timely taken out.

A good example as to why fighter jets aren't good CAS assets is the "battle of Kobani". Over 500 bombing missions in Kobani by coalition forces, yet ISIS is still dug in.

With CAS based assets like the Tucano, ISIS would have been driven off kobani a long time ago.


That been said, i'm happy with the Choice of the JF-17 and possible numbers for the NAF. It is an impressive fighter, with a good loiter time of 5 hours.

NAF only needs to get additional surveillance assets.

I agree 100% i think its a great buy, i really do, for the money its a very capable aircraft and the fact that its based on earlier mig models like the the j-7 makes it more familiar to NAF Pilots and mechanics dus easing maintenance, plus its a true swing/multi role fighter and can preform a wide range of tasks. And if a conventional war does brake-out then at least you have a very capable fighter instead of being stuck with COIN aircraft.

Henry120:


Generally, Newer Jets are based on older models, it may be untrue for the Gripen, but it's a known fact.

I believe augugust has answered that question.

Yes your right but i was never arguing that fact, just pointed out that the gripen was a new design.

Henry120:


No, the E/F models are classified as 4.5 Gen, not the older C/D models. Those sources were referring specifically to the E/F models, although they didn't differentiate them. It is the E/F model that would have the AESA radar and ISRT.

It is also the E/F model we've seen in that promotional video, set in an African backdrop attacking SU-27's.

Nope all 3 sources are about the gripen c/d just READ the sources PLEASE, i dont want to quote the sources for no reason when it clearly states that its about the gripen c/d.

MduZA:


south African doctors were absorbed by American market before ANC came to power....

South African doctors are still emigrating to America today, they also run away to Canada and Australia.

I have friends among them, some just arrived America this year, ran away from ANC republic. Liar !
.

patches689:


Nope the breech is a copy of the italian design

And your source is a rumor from an artical without citations written by the same women who said mandela was dead when he was not

Citations that the Rooikat is accurate up to 2km have been posted many times

Your personal opinion does not count.

The South African insider sources say DENEL copied the Italian gun same way Chinese would copy .

The same RSA sources say Rooikat gun is inaccurate for army targets, it is the copy of a naval gun for use against huge ships at sea

Case closed.

patches689:


Because the 105mm is still under design

The new turret seems to include an autoloader and a heat sheild on the barrel as well as active defence

Just because we have decided that we dont need the 105mm now doesnt mean development on the concept has stopped

Only one unit was built in 25 years, SANDF rejected 105mm gun Rooikat many years ago and would NEVER accept it.

Case closed.

AugustineAgain:


South African doctors are still emigrating to America today, they also run away to Canada and Australia.

I have friends among them, some just arrived America this year, ran away from ANC republic. Liar !
.

am not denying,just telling that it is not new...it used to happen during the apartheid,it is still happening...

jl115:


Yes your right but i was never arguing that fact, just pointed out that the gripen was a new design.

[size=16pt]Same way JF-17 Thunder is a new design, no aircraft in this world looks like it....Unique !
[/size]
.

jl115:


Nope all 3 sources are about the gripen c/d just READ the sources PLEASE, i dont want to quote the sources for no reason when it clearly states that its about the gripen c/d.

Is every internet source reliable? South African defenseweb that you trust 100% says Nigeria has about 100 units of BTR-3U IFVs and it is very very wrong

There are stupiid interent sources with false information.
.

jl115:


HMD= HMDs project information similar to that of head-up displays (HUD) on an aircrew’s visor or reticle, thereby allowing him to obtain situational awareness and/or cue weapons systems to the direction his head is pointing, dus targeting plus additional info displayed on hud.
Plus i love how you left out the part where it says we created it first.(These devices were created first by South Africa, then the Soviet Union and followed by the United States)

A helmet-mounted sight (HMS) developed by Luoyang Electro-Optics Technology Development Centre of AVIC was developed in parallel with the JF-17; it was first tested on Prototype 04 in 2006.[71][72] It was dubbed as EO HMS, (Electro-Optical Helmet Mounted Sight) and was first revealed to the public in 2008 at the 7th Zhuhai Airshow, where a partial mock-up was on display.[73] The HMS tracks the pilot's head and eye movements to guide missiles towards the pilot's visual target.

If you are still confused then you are just plain stupd!

Nope, you are the retaarrd, you fraudulently left out the end of the same source on JF-17 that says it has both HMS and HMD combined :

"Avionics

DEEC electronic warfare suite
NRIET KLJ-7 multi-mode fire-control radar
Night vision goggles (NVG) compatible glass cockpit
Helmet Mounted Sights/Display (HMS/D)
Externally mounted avionics pods:
KG-300G self-protection radar jamming pod
WMD-7 day/night targeting pod"


You are the newest fraudster Soweto sent to us here !
.

AugustineAgain:


Nope, you are the retaarrd, you fraudulently left out the end of the same source on JF-17 that says it has both HMS and HMD combined :

"Avionics

DEEC electronic warfare suite
NRIET KLJ-7 multi-mode fire-control radar
Night vision goggles (NVG) compatible glass cockpit
Helmet Mounted Sights/Display (HMS/D)
Externally mounted avionics pods:
KG-300G self-protection radar jamming pod
WMD-7 day/night targeting pod"


You are the newest fraudster Soweto sent to us here !
.

You are a true village idi0t my friend.
The source says as i quoted it before, the hms on the jf-17 is only used for targeting.
HMSD or HMS/D = HMS you cant have both only the one or the other.