johnydon22:


Am sure this doesnt even make sense to you a bit but you have no choice.

Am sure you never remembered eating an apple with adam cus honey you didnt, you were not in existence.

Someone that blames you and accuses you of being an accomplice in an act you know nothing about basically is totally flawed.

I ask again, since you think u were in Adam who allegedly was the first human then you must also have been in your father.

So is it right to punish you for the sins your father committed

You keep going in circles and is really tiring.

Everything that i've told you does not only make perfect sense to me but is the reality that all men must face whether here or beyond.

An2elect2:
What do you expect from God who made all things BY AND FOR Himself. Don't He have the right to run them as He pleases? Is that not why He is GOD!? your point is flawed
God created a man not God

Lmao, Your god creates because he needs love and worship, why would a perfect being need anything, be it love, worship or glory. . . .And then stoops as low as threatening people with fire to get it. . Hhmmm very shallow.

An2elect2:

God was not EXPECTING AN IMPERFECT MAN TO BE PERFECT. God does not expect the opposite of what He already knows!

Oh he already knew man would fall, yet he decided to punish man for falling according to his nature of imperfection which he "god" made that way.

An2elect2:

Just like i said before God did not create man to sin and He was not expecting Him not to sin either.

Now this bolded shows that god never knew whether man would sin or not, meaning he is not omniscient after all .

Meanwhile same you asserted above me that he already know. . lmao. . am enjoying this

An2elect2:

He did not create sin because God cannot rebel against Himself. Sin is something that only man can commit that is why the blame and the guilt is upon man

You say he did not create sin?
But he created an imperfect man who has the ability to sin, this ability was from god so how come you say he didn't create since he gave man tendency/ability to sin.

An2elect2:

Yes God knew man would fall and He expected it.

Another contradiction, let me show you one of your post now that say the opposite.

God did not create man to sin and [b]He was not expecting Him not to sin either

You dont even know which is it right? whether he knew or he didnt. . lol. . funny.

meanwhile so he knew man would fall, then gets angry when man eventually fell and convicted to punishing man for acting as expected. . means he already created hell knowing fully well man would fall. . .

Come to think of it, if he already knew man would fall and he can never be wrong, it means man had no choice but to fall to coincide with god's fore knowledge of his fall. because if man didnt fall as god already knew then god was wrong.

An2elect2:

God creating an imperfect being is not a sin, what is sin is rebelling against God. And that is why man is to be blamed and punished for sin.

And dont forget god already knew man would fall before creating man, so who really is the cause, why blame man who is just the victim in this game.

An2elect2:


You keep going in circles and is really tiring.

Everything that i've told you does not only make perfect sense to me but is the reality that all men must face whether here or beyond.

Actually i asked a very basic and simple question. . the least you could do is answer yes or No. . if you tell me either Yes or No i will stop quoting you and let it rest.

[size=20] Is it right to punish you for your father's sin?[/size] yes or No

An2elect2:


Have you ever wondered why Jesus said He is the door and also the Shepherd?

Who is the father? thats my question

An2elect2:


All sins deserve eternal death

I said we became sin or took on us the nature of sin as a result of the fall of Adam. Adam was a man that disobeyed God and hence sinned against God. Man's disobedience brought in sin or you can say, sin started from man. God did not create sin.

All sins deserves eternal death? Sadly u are comfortable with this. I deserve eternal death for lusting after a woman?

Sweetheart you might go about screaming I am a Christian but your so called good religion has turned you too a good beast.

Remember boko haram who kill infidels believe their sins deserves them to be beheaded. Pls what's the difference between a pretty girl like you and the boko boys?

Am Sorry An2elect you prove ontological but you are contradictory by argument...

Why should a perfect God creates an imperfect being?

It is just like buiding a car,instead of God building a car on four wheels,He decided to test your nature of existence and positivism by building that very car on three-tire wheels and the forth one on just the iron wheel.He as well removed the speedometer reader and your brake.But the car was darnishly sprayed with four sits.Notwithstanding,God was happy that he gave you an imperfect car with no speed reader,no brake, and other thing of no complete comfortability.

1)If you were to ask to take this car,will you take it?

2)If you have no ideal of what perceptive perfectionism is,will you say this car is imperfect?

3)If you were to use this car,how much will you strive as to reach your God-given destination without crashing on busy car users and pedestrians? For a car with no brake,will you ever have time to think if this car holds the imperfections or you or the car as well as you?

4)If this car with no brake be seen as a poison that if given to you on ingestion may end your existence four hours from now,don't you think God's care is moulded and mudded with corruptness either by him made or just our senses?

5)On failing to reach this destination,do you really think,you should be blamed or the car or God probably?

If a perfect demiurge creates an imperfect being,it means both perfection and imperfection is being housed by that God...

If i give you a gun to steal because I find it too indulging,if you were caught,do you think i should be free on impunity or by law face punishment?
Is it only who did the crime on the surface is the crime-maker?

An2elect2:


God in His infinite wisdom put all of us in Adam. We were all in Adam when he sinned and what we inherited was not the punishment for His personal sin but the nature of than sin, disobedience.

How in the world does this make sense to u. and ur God is going to punish me eternally for not understanding this crap?

An2elect2:
What do you expect from God who made all things BY AND FOR Himself. Don't He have the right to run them as He pleases? Is that not why He is GOD!? your point is flawed
God created a man not God
God was not EXPECTING AN IMPERFECT MAN TO BE PERFECT. God does not expect the opposite of what He already knows!
Just like i said before God did not create man to sin and He was not expecting Him not to sin either. He did not create sin because God cannot rebel against Himself. Sin is something that only man can commit that is why the blame and the guilt is upon man.



Yes God knew man would fall and He expected it.

God creating an imperfect being is not a sin, what is sin is rebelling against God. And that is why man is to be blamed and punished for sin.

Finally, you have shown how confused u are. Look lady, its not about running mouth and shouting "I am a christian, I have experienced God", a little drilling from dear Johnny and you are spewing thrash. Just putting words together to make meaning ur belief.

frank317:

All sins deserves eternal death? Sadly u are comfortable with this. I deserve eternal death for lusting after a woman?
Sweetheart you might go about screaming I am a Christian but your so called good religion has turned you too a good beast.
Remember boko haram who kill infidels believe their sins deserves them to be beheaded. Pls what's the difference between a pretty girl like you and the boko boys?

frank317:


Finally, you have shown how confused u are. Look lady, its not about running mouth and shouting "I am a christian, I have experienced God", a little drilling from dear Johnny and you are spewing thrash. Just putting words together to make meaning ur belief.

frank317:

How in the world does this make sense to u. and ur God is going to punish me eternally for not understanding this crap?

frank317:


Finally, you have shown how confused u are. Look lady, its not about running mouth and shouting "I am a christian, I have experienced God", a little drilling from dear Johnny and you are spewing thrash. Just putting words together to make meaning ur belief.

Your opinion does not matter so i don't care what you think.

You atheists have proven to me how non sensible you all are. If I've told you i am a Christian who abides by the divine and of course logical word of God, and then you want me to turn around against the this Word and think like you, you are the unreasonable one who is battling with common sense!

An2elect2:



Your opinion does not matter so i don't care what you think.

You atheists have proven to me how non sensible you all are. If I've told you i am a Christian who abides by the divine and of course logical word of God, and then you want me to turn around against the this Word and think like you, you are the unreasonable one who is battling with common sense!

But after all our discussion here, we just saw and understood it was not logical at all.

We saw the wickedness and pure unadulterated evil your alleged good book have imbedded in you by giving you the idea of people burning forever and be ok with it.

and the glaring contradictions you pour out. . . think its clear who the unreasonable one is.

For once try and base your thinking based on you independent of any thing, lets see how it goes.

LuckyG1:
Am Sorry An2elect you prove ontological but you are contradictory by argument...

Why should a perfect God creates an imperfect being?

It is just like buiding a car,instead of God building a car on four wheels,He decided to test your nature of existence and positivism by building that very car on three-tire wheels and the forth one on just the iron wheel.He as well removed the speedometer reader and your brake.But the car was darnishly sprayed with four sits.Notwithstanding,God was happy that he gave you an imperfect car with no speed reader,no brake, and other thing of no complete comfortability.

1)If you were to ask to take this car,will you take it?

2)If you have no ideal of what perceptive perfectionism is,will you say this car is imperfect?

3)If you were to use this car,how much will you strive as to reach your God-given destination without crashing on busy car users and pedestrians? For a car with no brake,will you ever have time to think if this car holds the imperfections or you or the car as well as you?

4)If this car with no brake be seen as a poison that if given to you on ingestion may end your existence four hours from now,don't you think God's care is moulded and mudded with corruptness either by him made or just our senses?

5)On failing to reach this destination,do you really think,you should be blamed or the car or God probably?

If a perfect demiurge creates an imperfect being,it means both perfection and imperfection is being housed by that God...

If i give you a gun to steal because I find it too indulging,if you were caught,do you think i should be free on impunity or by law face punishment?
Is it only who did the crime on the surface is the crime-maker?

Just like i said before CREATING A PERFECT BEING IS NOT POSSIBLE. You have to understand this impossibility first before you talk of who/what caused Adam to sin. Yes, man was created imperfect and made subject to a perfect God. It was His imperfect nature, owing to the fact that he was a man that led to his fall. And for being a subject of God he owes all his doings/responsibilities to God.

God cannot be blamed, because there is no law above God. The onus lies on man: to keep or break the law. It is the transgression of this law that is called sin. And this is also a rebellion against the Lawgiver.

What attracts punishment is not the imperfect nature itself, but the sin borne out of it.

You cannot hold the Lawgiver accountable for sin. Because He is not under the law and hence impossible for Him to sin or partake in sin.

johnydon22:


But after all our discussion here, we just saw and understood it was not logical at all.

We saw the wickedness and pure unadulterated evil your alleged good book have imbedded in you by giving you the idea of people burning forever and be ok with it.

and the glaring contradictions you pour out. . . think its clear who the unreasonable one is.

For once try and base your thinking based on you independent of any thing, lets see how it goes.

The problem is not coming from the Word but you!

You talk of logic, then you should understand why God is God first. Who He is. What He loves and hate. When you understand this first, then it will make sense to you, mortal man. Look at you

And is johnydon22 still asking me if i will be punished for my Father's sin. Even when i've told Him several times that we all took the nature of sin which God by His infinite wisdom subjected all of us to.

SMH, common sense is not found in your religion, atheists. You cannot hold God responsible for man's fall. He is not accountable to anybody.

An2elect2:



Just like i said before CREATING A PERFECT BEING IS NOT POSSIBLE. You have to understand this impossibility first before you talk of who/what caused Adam to sin.

Wow wonderful, so creating a perfect man was impossible for god to do? this shows he cant do everything, he's not omnipotent after all heh?
Good we have understood that creating a perfect man is impossible for god therefore we have clearly understood god is not omnipotent.

An2elect2:

Yes, man was created imperfect and made subject to a perfect God. It was His imperfect nature, owing to the fact that he was a man that led to his fall. And for being a subject of God he owes all his doings/responsibilities to God.

Man was made imperfect by a perfect god. . it was this imperfection that caused man to sin and this imperfection was made by god, therefore it was god who caused man to sin by bringing forth imperfection.

You see your perfect god was not only capable of making an imperfect being. . . How can there be a rectangular circle? it is impossible same way something perfect can not bore out imperfection but your god who allegedly is perfect bore out not only imperfect man but angels also. . So?

An2elect2:

God cannot be blamed, because there is no law above God. The onus lies on man: to keep or break the law. It is the transgression of this law that is called sin. And this is also a rebellion against the Lawgiver.

Yes when a mechanic makes a car without a break, the car is to blame for failing break and not the mechanic who decided not to add a break. . .

Do you even hear yourself? god is above law? when ur god can't even keep the very basic law of morality it disqualifies it from being a judge over others morality.

An2elect2:

What attracts punishment is not the imperfect nature itself, but the sin borne out of it.

Sin was born out of imperfection and this imperfection was from god. . . so he is punishing man for the mistake he himself did.

An2elect2:

You cannot hold the Lawgiver accountable for sin. Because He is not under the law and hence impossible for Him to sin or partake in sin.

Oh No when measured with the same yardstick of morality as a human, which is a very basic moral standard, your god failed woefully in it. . shouldn't we have expected better from god?

Their is need to re-evaluate your moral basis..

An2elect2:
And is johnydon22 still asking me if i will be punished for my Father's sin. Even when i've told Him several times that we all took the nature of sin which God by His infinite wisdom subjected all of us to.

So an all good god subjected you to to bear the nature of sin over what you know nothing about. and that is a very good show of infinite wisdom huh?

He is still bearing the grudge of one adam till now subjecting a new born innocent child to be a sin because of what allegedly happened in the very beginning. . bearing a grudge that long is character disorder.

From the way you doge this question, it is clear you think its not right to hold you for your father's sin . . .

An2elect2:

SMH, common sense is not found in your religion, atheists. You cannot hold God responsible for man's fall. He is not accountable to anybody.

. . Lmao actually our senses are not common, it is a very rare one. . .Something common is something simple, that can be used to describe you thinking. . You have a common sense we dont.

johnydon22:




For once try and base your thinking based on you independent of any thing, lets see how it goes.

Oho! so you think you are an independent thinker? more jokes loading...

Why do you think this way in the first place? Why do you think God does not exist?

"independent" thinkers in the house. Can you share why you think you are "independent" in your thoughts
and how you came to erroneously believe God does not exist?

I want to see how "independent" you all are. Anybody?

An2elect2:


The problem is not coming from the Word but you!

You talk of logic, then you should understand why God is God first. Who He is. What He loves and hate. When you understand this first, then it will make sense to you, mortal man. Look at you

Hahahaha An2elect2 i may end up marrying you one day hope you will like that

He loves and hates just like an imperfect man who is a subject of his emotions, even hate is not a good emotion to man, this shows another imperfect traits of your god. . meaning he has another character flaw which is hating. I'd expect more from someone supposedly all good.

You still showing us how imperfect your god concept is. .

An2elect2:


Oho! so you think you are an independent thinker? more jokes loading...

Why do you think this way in the first place? Why do you think God does not exist?

"independent" thinkers in the house. Can you share why you think you are "independent" in your thoughts
and how you came to erroneously believe God does not exist?

I want to see how "independent" you all are. Anybody?

Lmao you want to cherrypick this one? ok good let me fully demonstrate my stance.

I say: Their is God (Amadioha) (a claim)

you say: I dont believe you Prove it. .

my lack of proof to substantiate the existence of amadioha is proof enough for you to lack belief in my claim

You say: Their is a God (yahweh)(a claim)

i say: I dont believe you, prove it.

All you need do is provide proof, just like if i provide proof of amadioha it wouldnt be a claim anymore.
So till you can substantiate your claim with proof it remains a claim until proven otherwise.

And that is very simple. . . All we get is a very twisted poor flawed arguments . . . i think you fully grasp the position now. .

An2elect2:


Yes we can safely agree that it is their fault if they perish. All men deserve to perish anyway cos of our sin/sins. But all those who seek God would find mercy.

Sin is our own doing not God's. And so we deserve alienation from God for it. johnydon22

Damn! How do you ever find yourself worthy when you think so low of yourself this way? You believe you don't deserve your life, that all men deserve to perish bla bla bla...

I'm grateful that I don't subscribe to this school of thought; ministry of condemnation!

An2elect2:


You don't get it.

To sin is to rebel against God. And a direct affront to His Sovereignty! We are not talking of a creature doing harm to another creature but sin against the Creator. What right or power do we really have to harm people in the most gruesome way for a petty crime they committed? none. We are all at the mercy of God. And in God's eyes, we all fall short equally.

You are viewing sin in a shallow way. Well, you are an atheist after all and as far as you are concerned sin is mere wrong doing and nothing much and therefore should be "merely punished"

But look, sin is more than that. I will tell you why. Mercy is given to Him that ask! Sin causes men NOT TO ASK for mercy. When God said seek me and you will find me, He means everything that He said. That is the only way to find God is to seek Him. Now, the eternal punishment rests on those who will never ask God for mercy or seek Him. And since they will never do this, they will have to bear the consequences of never doing it. Is this logical? yes.

God does not forgive men for nothing. Mercy must go with Justice and none will surpass the other.

which sin?

simplex2:


Damn! How do you ever find yourself worthy when you think so low of yourself this way? You believe you don't deserve your life, that all men deserve to perish bla bla bla...

I'm grateful that I don't subscribe to this school of thought; ministry of condemnation!

Actually it is not her fault, she was indoctrinated into it.

First they told her she inherited Adam's sin therefore is not worthy.

They told her she was conceived with sin therefore not worth.

They told her she is not worthy of love, that she is a sinner that is terrible and needs saving.

Therefore a guy had to come to die to save her. .

All these guilts were imbedded into her as a child therefore creating an adult who thinks herself unworthy, broken and a sin.

It was not her fault at all, she was just another victim of mental child abuse.

Where are the likes of Ifeann truthman2012 true2god basilico and the rest of them when you need them. Oh I forgot, they are busy with Muslims.

You guys should know it's totally unfair to leave An2elect2 here all by herself to take the heat.

johnydon22:


Actually it is not her fault, she was indoctrinated into it.

First they told her she inherited Adam's sin therefore is not worthy.

They told her she was conceived with sin therefore not worth.

They told her she is not worthy of love, that she is a sinner that is terrible and needs saving.

Therefore a guy had to come to die to save her. .

All these guilts were imbedded into her as a child therefore creating an adult who thinks herself unworthy, broken and a sin.

It was not her fault at all, she was just another victim of mental child abuse.

Oh stop taunting An2elect2.

Hope u know Christianity is a religion that has a very large number of converts and not people born into it(such as Hinduism and Islam). Most people are drawn to Christianity because of the Gospel and teachings of Christ and not the guilt of original sin or the punishment of hell or the intricacies of old testament theology.

udatso:
Where are the likes of Ifeann truthman2012 true2god basilico and the rest of them when you need them. Oh I forgot, they are busy with Muslims.

You guys should know it's totally unfair to leave An2elect2 here all by herself to take the heat.

Am here. What's ur questions. Make it smart.

Ifeann:


Am here. What's ur questions. Make it smart.

Questions aren't mine...... They are from johnydon22 and friends......... Only An2elect2 has been answering up to the event that she started falsifying her own statement.......
Read the op

An2elect2:



Your opinion does not matter so i don't care what you think.

You atheists have proven to me how non sensible you all are. If I've told you i am a Christian who abides by the divine and of course logical word of God, and then you want me to turn around against the this Word and think like you, you are the unreasonable one who is battling with common sense!

Of course my opinion does not matter

Lol... Atheists are trying to make u see how unreasonable ur belief is. It's just surprising you can't see it

Ifeann:


Oh stop taunting An2elect2.

Hope u know Christianity is a religion that has a very large number of converts and not people born into it(such as Hinduism and Islam). Most people are drawn to Christianity because of the Gospel and teachings of Christ and not the guilt of original sin or the punishment of hell or the intricacies of old testament theology.

nobody is taunting anybody dude. .

Are you a convert to christianity?

So you are saying their are no muslim converts?


or Hindu converts?

Are you purposely trying to be be deceptive here or what?

and that gospel of christ please remind me what it says again?

johnydon22:


The bolded is exactly what am saying. . .

Justice means when a punishment fits the crime. Would you punish your child for a year for a sin he committed in a day? or let me rephrase it. . Would you burn your child for 24 hours over an offense he committed in a minute?

How then do you find it right and just to punish a finite sin with an infinite punishment?

God isn't going to punish a finite sin with infinite judgment.
God only desires to contain evil and the best was to do that is Hell. But if people hold on to evil then they will go to Hell with the evil they refuse to let go.

You have to let go of humanity because humanity had been poisoned with incurable evil.
Let go of evil so that you won't perish with it.
God loves you.

Hiswordxray:

God isn't going to punish a finite sin with infinite judgment.
God only desires to contain evil and the best was to do that is Hell. But if people hold on to evil then they will go to Hell with the evil they refuse to let go.

woooow bravo!!! an allegedly omnipotent being wanted to contain evil (that was a result of his imperfections) and the best he could come up is hell. . . Now thats a wonderful idea i must say.

Hiswordxray:
You have to let go of humanity because humanity had been poisoned with incurable evil.
Let go of evil so that you won't perish with it.

Am not sure you even know what mankind or humanity means. Someone who harbours in his mind the thought of mankind perishing is the one that is incurably evil to me. . and you need to forgo that evil.
You need to re-evaluate your moral basis before labelling anything evil cus from what i see here is someone who is wishing and waiting for the whole of humankind to perish, and that to me is sickening and blatant evil.

johnydon22:


nobody is taunting anybody dude. .

Are you a convert to christianity?

So you are saying their are no muslim converts?


or Hindu converts?

Are you purposely trying to be be deceptive here or what?

and that gospel of christ please remind me what it says again?

Dude the vast majority of Hindus and moslems are born into the religion. Buddists even have a growing convert population thanks to the popularity and new western craze with meditation, yoga poses and breathing exercises etc that has increased it's appeal.

I never said there are no converts to the two aforementioned religions. Are u now using al Taqiyya..jk . Anyway that's besides the point.

U were taunting 2elect as if she and other Christians are Brain washed and indoctrinated straight from birth and didn't make the concious effort to join Christianity based on its teachings.

Ifeann:


Dude the vast majority of Hindus and moslems are born into the religion. Buddists even have a growing convert population thanks to the popularity and new western craze with meditation, yoga poses and breathing exercises etc that has increased it's appeal.

I never said there are no converts to the two aforementioned religions. Are u now using al Taqiyya..jk . Anyway that's besides the point.

U were taunting 2elect as if she and other Christians are Brain washed and indoctrinated straight from birth and didn't make the concious effort to join Christianity based on its teachings.

And now you start taking things off point. . . Islam have large amount of converts, so does Christianity and other religions. . its a web of unending circles.

Both islam and christianity thrives on indoctrination, no one can deny that fact cus we all live in the same society, we have been in this one or the other. . . You can now go and read the OP and stop derailing into which religion thrives on indoctrination because we all know the answer...

frank317:


Of course my opinion does not matter

Lol... Atheists are trying to make u see how unreasonable ur belief is. It's just surprising you can't see it

If only that was true then your post would have made sense. (bolded)