dalaman:


Then why doesn't Allah kill them himself? Why must you guys be the ones doing all the killings for Allah? if Allah dislikes blasphemy then he should kill all those(millions) that blaspheme against him all the time. If Allah is indeed alive and as powerful as you guys claim then why are you the ones doing all the killings on his behalf? Doesn't the fact that you are the ones always doing everything for him and failing at it ALL of the time tell you something?

crusadistic:
so He should come down from heaven with a sword and kill them himself

crusadistic:
so He should come down from heaven with a sword and kill them himself

johnydon22:

I just hope you know the bible god is just as guilty as the quran god on this

dalaman:


Come down? Must he come down? When you pray to Allah to protect you from harm do you pray to him to come down and protect you? I thought Allah is all powerful and can do all things, why doesn't he just end their lives himself since their lives are in his hands as you guys believe? Why must muslims constantly be fighting and killing those that insult Allah? An action that we are told Allah the all powerful God doesn't like himself? Killing people on Allah's behalf shows that he is powerless, since he doesn't like people insulting him and yet there is nothing he can do about it.

Scholar8200:
To start with, the action is not justifiable. However, the unfortunate ones belong to the same society that nearly attacked other religions that kicked when they adopted the Shar'ia code. We ,therefore, should learn to abide by the rules of the community where we find ourselves.

Digression: God commanded the Israelites to destroy some nations guilty of vile abominations of the deepest dye. God also allowed other nations (Babylon, Assyria etc) to waste Israel exceedingly when Israel went into the same abominations. Both group had a time of benefit, an injury period with warnings but at the appropriate time judgement was executed. This is His style of Justice and somehow, it's better than if He had to do it Himself: Ante-deluvian world,Sodom and Pompeii can explain better.

Besides, the commands given then were not in the same class as moral obligations and faith; meaning they were not meant to be passed down.(this has a spiritual perspective now).

Conversely, the battles perpetrated by some radical Muslims (though some disclaim them) appears to suggest that they will never go wrong i.e. It presents a perspective and style absolutely foreign to that we find in the Bible.

crusadistic:
bla bla blah so you shouldn't compare the so called biblical 'justice' with Allah's,He never ordered any genocides or rapes.

Scholar8200:
To start with, the action is not justifiable. However, the unfortunate ones belong to the same society that nearly attacked other religions that kicked when they adopted the Shar'ia code. We ,therefore, should learn to abide by the rules of the community where we find ourselves.

Digression: God commanded the Israelites to destroy some nations guilty of vile abominations of the deepest dye. God also allowed other nations (Babylon, Assyria etc) to waste Israel exceedingly when Israel went into the same abominations. Both group had a time of benefit, an injury period with warnings but at the appropriate time judgement was executed. This is His style of Justice and somehow, it's better than if He had to do it Himself: Ante-deluvian world,Sodom and Pompeii can explain better.

Besides, the commands given then were not in the same class as moral obligations and faith; meaning they were not meant to be passed down.(this has a spiritual perspective now).

Conversely, the battles perpetrated by some radical Muslims (though some disclaim them) appears to suggest that they will never go wrong i.e. It presents a perspective and style absolutely foreign to that we find in the Bible.

crusadistic:
you said why doesnt Allah(SWT) kill them himself,you should also ask why He doesn't kill murderers and the rest himself

crusadistic:
you said why doesnt Allah(SWT) kill them himself,you should also ask why He doesn't kill murderers and the rest himself

johnydon22:



Our discussion was whether the bible god also commanded people to fight others just like the quranic god did [b]not about reason for fighting them not even ready to dabble into that.

So with this your post you have just confirmed to malvisguy who was disputing the fact that the bible god also charged a people(isreal) to fight some other


@bolded; Same way the biblical isreal think they are right fighting other people that worships other god(s) and not theirs at the command of their own isreal god, is exactly the same way muslims see theirs, so there is no difference in the two examples.
Both violates people's right to practise any religion they want, am sure you know in this 21st century if isreali tries same thing now,they would be branded religious terrorist group and will not be treated any differently with ISIS and boko haram [/b]

Scholar8200:

The two highlighted contradict. The one said you are not interested in reasons while the other gives a perceived reason.

I think i made it clear that on my first paragraph i was referring to my discussion with malvisguy

and the second

i was addressing your last paragraph in bolded. . .Maybe you chose not to discern when a post is addressing two independent analogies

johnydon22:
I think i made it clear that on my first paragraph i was referring to my discussion with malvisguy

and the second

i was addressing your last paragraph in bolded. . .Maybe you chose not to discern when a post is addressing two independent analogies

Scholar8200:

But in no where were the Israelites asked to kill those who do not practise their religion.If you think contrary, kindly give refs that state such expressedly.

dalaman:


"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)

"Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death". (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

dalaman:


Murderers kill other people, they cause harm to others, those that blaspheme insult Allah himself, they harm nobody. We are told he doesn't like people insulting him so he should kill those that insult him himself. Allah is an imaginary idea and entity so he can't kill anybody in reality. You might believe other wise but that remains your belief.

johnydon22:


Men you really have time to start posting all those barbaric commands of Deuteronomy 13. . Didn't even take it that serious to oblige getting verses for it, quite tired from training

crusadistic:
you didn't answer the question both murder and blasphemy are sins to him,why can't you apply your same logic to that of murder so why doesn't Allah kill murderers himself?

dalaman:


The way some of them just go about saying things as if some of us don't have access to the bible.

You know i opened this thread because of the barbaric islamic sharia law we are witnessing in the north, i don't quite like bringing up all the barbaric similar bible laws because am not quite in the mood to start replying mostly copy and paste from answeringgenesis.org and gotquestion.com.


e.g: If your bride is not a virgin and you find out, report her to the assembly and if she cant provide proof of her virginity, she will be stoned to death(Deut 22:13-22). . .
Biblical morality is epic

dalaman:


"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)

"Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death". (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

crusadistic:
you didn't answer the question both murder and blasphemy are sins to him,why can't you apply your same logic to that of murder so why doesn't Allah kill murderers himself?

Scholar8200:

These quotes has nothing to do with outsiders/foreigners.
I commenced my first post by pointing out the need to abide by known rules in the community you choose to settle in. Besides, these people were not coerced, they personally made their commitment to be obedient after they heard the terms read to them:

Exodus 24:7
Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read in the hearing of the people. And they said, “All that the Lord has said we will do, and be obedient.”

dalaman:


Then this supports the case that Jonny made. The bible is no different from the Koran if you are justifying such as moral principles to abide by.

Scholar8200:
Moral principles to abide by which was read openly to the same people and they gave their word for implicit obedience?! Why? how do you see a commitment? Remember that the people in question were told the details of what they were about to consent to. Besides, how many times do we find the Israelites executing this? And, do they go about today like the terrorists do?

Scholar8200:
Moral principles to abide by which was read openly to the same people and they gave their word for implicit obedience?! Why? how do you see a commitment? Remember that the people in question were told the details of what they were about to consent to. Besides, how many times do we find the Israelites executing this? And, do they go about today like the terrorists do?

johnydon22:


exactly the point, same way muslims have read the quran and agreed to it. . . That they agreed to abide by such laws still doesn't make the law less barbaric and still doesn't add any moral weight to those laws

@bolded because they know it is wrong now and the world would tag them a terrorist group if they do

crusadistic:

YES,it is justifiable

Scholar8200:

If the law is barbaric, is the act being condemned not even more barbaric? An Israelite wants to go after an idol that.among other things, commands you to burn your kids in sacrifice, engage in multiple orgies openly as a way of seeking for fertility of the land etc Why? a law that prescribes a tap-in-the-wrist punishment for such must be an encouragement in disguise!

Besides, just as it happened in the 400 years inter-testament period, the expectation of modern day Israel is the coming of the Messiah and restoration of all things. For now, it's a battle to survive while the dispensation lasts. Those who recognise the Messiah know that we are no longer under the OT and that the outlook of the NT is different

dalaman:


Same way the muslim terrorist are also committed to their own revelations from their God after been told the details of what they are to consent to. The number of times of execution is unknown. The law was given and written about according to the story we have but the number of times it was executed was not written down doesn't ,mean it wasn't executed many time. But if you are talking about the present day Israelis then my answer is they can't because they will be labelled as terrorist.

Scholar8200:


Alright. The present day Israelites and present day Islamic fundamentalists can be used as a sample for that which history does not reveal. The last people that will give a hoot on being called terrorists are the Israelites; their stance at present is not as a result of fear of being labelled terrorist;there is another reason.

Besides, just as it happened in the 400 years inter-testament period, the expectation of modern day Israel is the coming of the Messiah and restoration of all things. For now, it's a battle to survive while the dispensation lasts. Those who recognise the Messiah know that we are no longer under the OT and that the outlook of the NT is different

Need i remind you that isreali now is mainly a judaic country. .

75% of modern day isrealis practise Judaism. in fact only 2% practise Orthodox Christianity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Israel

And most Judaic people regard Jesus as another case out of the 21 cases of messiah claims they have witness through out history, so they don't buy you belief of jesus relieving you of the law.
so unlike you, they have no belief in jesus or even have the new testament in their scriptures. . . they pretty much still believe they are under the law. . . so the reason why they don't employ these laws now is because they don't want to enter the 21st century list of terrorist groups just like not every muslim heeds to the barbaric charges in the koran

johnydon22:


This is the part i start questioning if religious belief rids people of their sense of humanity . .

tell me how a girl having sex before marriage is more barbaric than stoning her to death. .

tell me how people having sex with themselves more barbaric than killing them.

tell me how someone choosing to worship another god as he wants just as you choose to worship yours more barbaric than killing the person. . . Unless your definition of barbarism is not the same that we see in the dictionary.

Following this your analogy, we can then conclude that the 9 people who are sentenced to death in Kano deserves what they got because their sin (Just talking) is more barbaric than the law that condemns them to death for just talking

I think dear sir, am done obliging such discussion where belief clouds human sense of judgement

Scholar8200:


Alright. The present day Israelites and present day Islamic fundamentalists can be used as a sample for that which history does not reveal. The last people that will give a hoot on being called terrorists are the Israelites; their stance at present is not as a result of fear of being labelled terrorist;there is another reason.