brag3: Afternoon Brabus and fellow NL. I had promised myself not to talk about Brabus anymore but I feel way too aggrieved not to bring this to the public domain. I know talking to Brabus 1-on-1 won’t help so it’s best to mention this here so he can let me understand a few things. NL members are already aware of the earlier review on Brabus and I don’t need to dig up old dirt but I need to mention a few things that give me cause for concern. On October 13th 2014 Brabus was paid 220K for architectural designs. Brabus said this payment was for Architectural and Structural drawings. No issue here. On Nov 3rd 2014. Brabus was paid a further 187,000 naira. This was to cover what was termed amended approval. Please let me explain this. The land that we purchased already had an uncompleted building and this structure already had an approval for 4 * 3 bedroom Flats. Because we were changing this to 6*2 bedroom flats Brabus said that we will need to do some kind of amended approval so that the current approval could be transferred to the 6*2 bedroom flats. Brabus if I am wrong here then please state clearly exactly what the 187,000 was for. I will enclose a screenshot of the payment made which says “Money for Building Change Order Approval”. Having chased Brabus for a few weeks he now finally delivered what supposed to be my approved structural and Architectural drawings and my first take on them was that something was not right. I then passed them over to an architect to look over them and give me his thoughts and his comments were very damning. I will upload his comments shortly but in order to avoid hear-say I will attach the documents here so our Certified Architects and Engineers can comment on it. When my brother asked Bosun about this approval these were his responses which will be attached as screenshots “when he gets to Alausa he can do proper check on what he should do normailly for approval of such structure. They payment made was for the guys to clear up the way and not for a new approval. The old approval on the old drawing still works”. Brabus please can you explain what this means? NL members do you know what this means? So that’s on the approval which I can live with but what I cannot live with is when the drawings that we paid for do not reflect what has been done on ground. As you will see from the Screenshot LG5, this shows about 33 pillars but having been onsite a lot of times I know that we have 49 pillars which is completely different from the drawings. Whilst I am sure that having more pillars is better than having less this does not excuse the fact that the drawings don’t reflect what we actually have. Since I don’t talk to Brabus I pushed this over to my brother and Brabus’ answers to this completely blew my mind. He may be able to pull the wool over my brother’s face but it does not wash with me. I have attached all the screenshots of the conversation sent to me last night and I will let Brabus respond to these.
I find it disturbing to pay for drawings which are meant to be done by a certified architect and all we got is some quack job which even belittles a first year under-graduate. These documents have also been stamped. Brabus who stamped these documents? Was it a certified Architect and structural Engineer or this some fake stamp used here. Who was the architect? Please can you furnish his credentials as I feel I have the right to speak to him about the quality of this work. I have also been told that these are meant to have some engraved stamp and also signed by the Certified Architect and Structural Engineer. Where are these? Where is lagos state the coat of arms? Where are the structural calculations? Who is Leke Akanni? I just want Brabus to explain to me exactly what he has given to me. I find it very worrying that the drawing shows 33 pillars when infact we have 49 pillars. That’s a massive difference. When my brother asked Brabus about this his responses which I will also attach here are as follows: “We introduced more columns onsite” “We can’t rely on blocks supplied so I added more columns” “I had no choice than to buy blocks from Omo onile guy but his block are not solid so we added more columns for support at strategic angles of the building” “it would be an issue if there are 46 columns in the drawing and we only install 33” “I don’t know when adding more support to a house has become a problem”
Can you imagine all this crap? Are you telling me that your architect could not figure out how many pillars were needed when you first went to the site to get information? He was out by about 16 pillars so are you telling me that it is acceptable to start adding pillars on the fly? I may not be an expert but you always get things done on paper properly before doing the main work. It is called proper design and it applies to most jobs we do not just building and engineering. Please tell me how does block affect pillars? I thought these pillars are casted so what do bad blocks have to do with you adding new columns. Engineers on site. Aventures, Segymore, lafolabli, Spyder and others please help me here. Do we use blocks when doing raft foundation and pillars? I have attached as many screenshots as possible. If Brabus needs more I have them. Please other NL members if you Brabus has done your approval for you please have these checked out asap as you may be holding on to some thrash thinking you have valid approval. Brabus I eagerly await your response to my questions.
brag3: Afternoon Brabus and fellow NL. I had promised myself not to talk about Brabus anymore but I feel way too aggrieved not to bring this to the public domain. I know talking to Brabus 1-on-1 won’t help so it’s best to mention this here so he can let me understand a few things. NL members are already aware of the earlier review on Brabus and I don’t need to dig up old dirt but I need to mention a few things that give me cause for concern. On October 13th 2014 Brabus was paid 220K for architectural designs. Brabus said this payment was for Architectural and Structural drawings. No issue here. On Nov 3rd 2014. Brabus was paid a further 187,000 naira. This was to cover what was termed amended approval. Please let me explain this. The land that we purchased already had an uncompleted building and this structure already had an approval for 4 * 3 bedroom Flats. Because we were changing this to 6*2 bedroom flats Brabus said that we will need to do some kind of amended approval so that the current approval could be transferred to the 6*2 bedroom flats. Brabus if I am wrong here then please state clearly exactly what the 187,000 was for. I will enclose a screenshot of the payment made which says “Money for Building Change Order Approval”. Having chased Brabus for a few weeks he now finally delivered what supposed to be my approved structural and Architectural drawings and my first take on them was that something was not right. I then passed them over to an architect to look over them and give me his thoughts and his comments were very damning. I will upload his comments shortly but in order to avoid hear-say I will attach the documents here so our Certified Architects and Engineers can comment on it. When my brother asked Bosun about this approval these were his responses which will be attached as screenshots “when he gets to Alausa he can do proper check on what he should do normailly for approval of such structure. They payment made was for the guys to clear up the way and not for a new approval. The old approval on the old drawing still works”. Brabus please can you explain what this means? NL members do you know what this means? So that’s on the approval which I can live with but what I cannot live with is when the drawings that we paid for do not reflect what has been done on ground. As you will see from the Screenshot LG5, this shows about 33 pillars but having been onsite a lot of times I know that we have 49 pillars which is completely different from the drawings. Whilst I am sure that having more pillars is better than having less this does not excuse the fact that the drawings don’t reflect what we actually have. Since I don’t talk to Brabus I pushed this over to my brother and Brabus’ answers to this completely blew my mind. He may be able to pull the wool over my brother’s face but it does not wash with me. I have attached all the screenshots of the conversation sent to me last night and I will let Brabus respond to these.
I find it disturbing to pay for drawings which are meant to be done by a certified architect and all we got is some quack job which even belittles a first year under-graduate. These documents have also been stamped. Brabus who stamped these documents? Was it a certified Architect and structural Engineer or this some fake stamp used here. Who was the architect? Please can you furnish his credentials as I feel I have the right to speak to him about the quality of this work. I have also been told that these are meant to have some engraved stamp and also signed by the Certified Architect and Structural Engineer. Where are these? Where is lagos state the coat of arms? Where are the structural calculations? Who is Leke Akanni? I just want Brabus to explain to me exactly what he has given to me. I find it very worrying that the drawing shows 33 pillars when infact we have 49 pillars. That’s a massive difference. When my brother asked Brabus about this his responses which I will also attach here are as follows: “We introduced more columns onsite” “We can’t rely on blocks supplied so I added more columns” “I had no choice than to buy blocks from Omo onile guy but his block are not solid so we added more columns for support at strategic angles of the building” “it would be an issue if there are 46 columns in the drawing and we only install 33” “I don’t know when adding more support to a house has become a problem”
Can you imagine all this crap? Are you telling me that your architect could not figure out how many pillars were needed when you first went to the site to get information? He was out by about 16 pillars so are you telling me that it is acceptable to start adding pillars on the fly? I may not be an expert but you always get things done on paper properly before doing the main work. It is called proper design and it applies to most jobs we do not just building and engineering. Please tell me how does block affect pillars? I thought these pillars are casted so what do bad blocks have to do with you adding new columns. Engineers on site. Aventures, Segymore, lafolabli, Spyder and others please help me here. Do we use blocks when doing raft foundation and pillars? I have attached as many screenshots as possible. If Brabus needs more I have them. Please other NL members if you Brabus has done your approval for you please have these checked out asap as you may be holding on to some thrash thinking you have valid approval. Brabus I eagerly await your response to my questions.
brag3: Afternoon Brabus and fellow NL. I had promised myself not to talk about Brabus anymore but I feel way too aggrieved not to bring this to the public domain. I know talking to Brabus 1-on-1 won’t help so it’s best to mention this here so he can let me understand a few things. NL members are already aware of the earlier review on Brabus and I don’t need to dig up old dirt but I need to mention a few things that give me cause for concern. On October 13th 2014 Brabus was paid 220K for architectural designs. Brabus said this payment was for Architectural and Structural drawings. No issue here. On Nov 3rd 2014. Brabus was paid a further 187,000 naira. This was to cover what was termed amended approval. Please let me explain this. The land that we purchased already had an uncompleted building and this structure already had an approval for 4 * 3 bedroom Flats. Because we were changing this to 6*2 bedroom flats Brabus said that we will need to do some kind of amended approval so that the current approval could be transferred to the 6*2 bedroom flats. Brabus if I am wrong here then please state clearly exactly what the 187,000 was for. I will enclose a screenshot of the payment made which says “Money for Building Change Order Approval”. Having chased Brabus for a few weeks he now finally delivered what supposed to be my approved structural and Architectural drawings and my first take on them was that something was not right. I then passed them over to an architect to look over them and give me his thoughts and his comments were very damning. I will upload his comments shortly but in order to avoid hear-say I will attach the documents here so our Certified Architects and Engineers can comment on it. When my brother asked Bosun about this approval these were his responses which will be attached as screenshots “when he gets to Alausa he can do proper check on what he should do normailly for approval of such structure. They payment made was for the guys to clear up the way and not for a new approval. The old approval on the old drawing still works”. Brabus please can you explain what this means? NL members do you know what this means? So that’s on the approval which I can live with but what I cannot live with is when the drawings that we paid for do not reflect what has been done on ground. As you will see from the Screenshot LG5, this shows about 33 pillars but having been onsite a lot of times I know that we have 49 pillars which is completely different from the drawings. Whilst I am sure that having more pillars is better than having less this does not excuse the fact that the drawings don’t reflect what we actually have. Since I don’t talk to Brabus I pushed this over to my brother and Brabus’ answers to this completely blew my mind. He may be able to pull the wool over my brother’s face but it does not wash with me. I have attached all the screenshots of the conversation sent to me last night and I will let Brabus respond to these.
I find it disturbing to pay for drawings which are meant to be done by a certified architect and all we got is some quack job which even belittles a first year under-graduate. These documents have also been stamped. Brabus who stamped these documents? Was it a certified Architect and structural Engineer or this some fake stamp used here. Who was the architect? Please can you furnish his credentials as I feel I have the right to speak to him about the quality of this work. I have also been told that these are meant to have some engraved stamp and also signed by the Certified Architect and Structural Engineer. Where are these? Where is lagos state the coat of arms? Where are the structural calculations? Who is Leke Akanni? I just want Brabus to explain to me exactly what he has given to me. I find it very worrying that the drawing shows 33 pillars when infact we have 49 pillars. That’s a massive difference. When my brother asked Brabus about this his responses which I will also attach here are as follows: “We introduced more columns onsite” “We can’t rely on blocks supplied so I added more columns” “I had no choice than to buy blocks from Omo onile guy but his block are not solid so we added more columns for support at strategic angles of the building” “it would be an issue if there are 46 columns in the drawing and we only install 33” “I don’t know when adding more support to a house has become a problem”
Can you imagine all this crap? Are you telling me that your architect could not figure out how many pillars were needed when you first went to the site to get information? He was out by about 16 pillars so are you telling me that it is acceptable to start adding pillars on the fly? I may not be an expert but you always get things done on paper properly before doing the main work. It is called proper design and it applies to most jobs we do not just building and engineering. Please tell me how does block affect pillars? I thought these pillars are casted so what do bad blocks have to do with you adding new columns. Engineers on site. Aventures, Segymore, lafolabli, Spyder and others please help me here. Do we use blocks when doing raft foundation and pillars? I have attached as many screenshots as possible. If Brabus needs more I have them. Please other NL members if you Brabus has done your approval for you please have these checked out asap as you may be holding on to some thrash thinking you have valid approval. Brabus I eagerly await your response to my questions.
If possible, since there are so much controversies on this project, I suggest you meet with Brabus, reach an amicable settlement as to refunds for undone work and get a professional to handle the project.
Also, let officials of the Lagos State Building Control Agency meet with Brabus and let him tell them the explanations he told you.
Please, save yourself the daily headaches and get the project rescheduled ASAP.
Bro no so we see am. Just finally got what was supposed to some kind of approval only to realize that it's not even worth the paper it is written on...........
3strike: not again...........................................
brag3: Bro no so we see am. Just finally got what was supposed to some kind of approval only to realize that it's not even worth the paper it is written on...........
I have no comment on this. I wish I was dealing with you directly from the very beginning.
So you can only respond to the payments? what about the approval and structural diagrams that you sent to me last week? Are they real? where did the come from and why are they different from whats on ground?
So you can only respond to the payments? what about the approval and structural diagrams that you sent to me last week? Are they real? where did the come from and why are they different from whats on ground?
@brag3....are you angry that he introduced more pillars to your structure without your consent or because of the questionable building approval? Have you taken it for verification with the appropriate authorities? Did you verify if the initial plan was approved? Falsification of document is a crime in Nigeria.
So you can only respond to the payments? what about the approval and structural diagrams that you sent to me last week? Are they real? where did the come from and why are they different from whats on ground?
So how many pillars/columns are reflected here and how many were actually used? What kind of approval do we have here? [quote author=brabus post=37668891][/quote]
The OP is saying that the number of pillars is different to what is on the ground and has asked BRABUS the following questions:
Who did the architectural drawings ? Who did the structural drawings ? The placing of the pillars on the building, was it done by guesswork or followed design which was put on paper ? Clearly its not the latter. What are the credentials of the architect ? What are the credentials of the structural engineer ? Why is the COREN engraving missing from the structural drawings ?
It would be good to get straight answers to straight questions rather than side tracking. Just my 2 cents.
@Brag3 Please don't feel bad if more pillars were added, the more pillars you have in your building structure, the better. BUT... I have no concern with the Plan Approval business and I will not comment on that.
babalose: @brag3....are you angry that he introduced more pillars to your structure without your consent or because of the questionable building approval? Have you taken it for verification with the appropriate authorities? Did you verify if the initial plan was approved? Falsification of document is a crime in Nigeria.
@babalose I am not angry with addtional pillars. I made this clear from the onset. I am upset that my drawings do not reflect what is on ground. correct me if I am wrong but is it standard practice to add such things on the fly? I am now asking Brabus these questions you are asking me. The original plan was approved and this has been verified. The plan we are using now was done by Brabus so only he can answer that question. As for taking it for verification I plan on doing that once Brabus explains to me what he has done for me. I have scheduled meetings next week for this.
Haji M, I have no issue with this. I even said this before. More pillars is better than less. My gripe here is that i have diagrams/drawings which dont reflect whats on ground. Is this acceptable?
mufutau55: @Brag3 Please don't feel bad if more pillars were added, the more pillars you have in your building structure, the better. BUT... I have no concern with the Plan Approval business and I will not comment on that.
The OP is saying that the number of pillars is different to what is on the ground and has asked BRABUS the following questions:
Who did the architectural drawings ? Who did the structural drawings ? The placing of the pillars on the building, was it done by guesswork or followed design which was put on paper ? Clearly its not the latter. What are the credentials of the architect ? What are the credentials of the structural engineer ? Why is the COREN engraving missing from the structural drawings ?
It would be good to get straight answers to straight questions rather than side tracking. Just my 2 cents.
@mavverick . thank you. This is all I am asking. I just need simple answers to these questions. Who has worked on these drawings and are they Certified? simple
brag3: Haji M, I have no issue with this. I even said this before. More pillars is better than less. My gripe here is that i have diagrams/drawings which dont reflect whats on ground. Is this acceptable?
Acceptability? Yes and No. If the Plan was actually legally and officially approved for 33 pillars and 46 were implemented. YES.. No problem.
But if it was not legally or officially approved then NO... you may have problem in future proving the extra columns (pillars) or even for the Plan approval later.
I think in Lagos, you MUST have approved Plan before you can even build.... Go check and make sure your building is legally and officially approved. But with Wuru-wuru approval... you are in for a rough ride. Please do your own verifications of the approvals. That is what I would have done.
Acceptability? Yes and No. If the Plan was actually legally and officially approved for 33 pillars and 46 were implemented. YES.. No problem.
But if it was not legally or officially approved then NO... you may have problem in future proving the extra columns (pillars) or even for the Plan approval later.
I think in Lagos, you MUST have approved Plan before you can even build.... Go check and make sure your building is legally and officially approved. But with Wuru-wuru approval... you are in for a rough ride. Please do your own verifications. That is what I would have done.
Hajji M.
Thank you Haji M. I have meeting scheduled for full verifcation next week. I only came on here to let Brabus have his say before I open up another can of worms. It's now up to him to respond to my simple questions. Nothing else. This is no grudge-match. All I want are simple answers
So let me get this straight. You'd rather send me pictures of my project to illustrate some points rather than answer my simple questions? It's amazing why you feel the need to introduce alot of red herring. Did you conveniently miss the section where I said more pillars is better than none or are you refusing bluntly to answer my questions which I repeat again. Why are my drawings different from what is on ground by about 16 columns? Introducing 1 or 2 or 3 may be acceptable but when you start doing this for 16 pillars then something was very wrong at the onset. Where the drawings done by a certified Architect? Were they signed off by a certified architect and Structural Engineer? What kind of approval do I have or have you done for me?
Sir brag3, You can call me on my line or email me for more explanation or maybe we schedule a site visit for project defense. That's how things should be done.
If you didn't get a response, then take it up on nairaland. Even when I was explaining to your bro and things are not so clear on chat, he called.
I'm very sorry I'm not discussing the issue here. I can only post the pics for experts to fault. I'm sure experts must have seen what we did different even from the pictures so they can tell if they are out of place.
I have said it without number. Some things were not done any how. Assuming structural drawing is being done properly:with adequate columns Block work is zero. How did frame structure stand? Purely without any blocks. So the issues of using weak blocks is not relevant. However, introducing more columns ve no structural effect though.
Did you say you counted 49 columns in that structure and they were all added by me? Can we schedule a meeting at the site sometimes next week for us to do the counting together? Or do you mean to say 39 columns instead of 49 because 6 additional column plus 33 columns equals 39 and not 49.
Pic 1: The building and the columns we installed. (1st column on the left in pic is B on the structural drawing) Pic 2: Columns added in red _______
Oga segcymoor, can you point out any error in the structural drawing attached?
Brabus. In the first place I suggest u observed what brag3 does by respecting client privacy (covered d clients name and reattach)
Now,back to issues at hand. To start with the structural engineer that design this particular structure known what he's doing. Builder brabus, with due respect those additional columns is absolutely unnecessary. We are taking about less than 5.5m intervals.
You see, when structural engineer indicates columns. He supported it by analyzing each individual beam. That is why they called it structural details.
In one of our recent projects, we have span of almost 7m without column. That is when they respect builder or engr in question
As a case study, this particular concept is not far from what egbosa did in ondo that cause issues. Someone got to site and shout 'no column' to hold this beam. In reality d column is unnecessary.
Did you say you counted 49 columns in that structure and they were all added by me? Can we schedule a meeting at the site sometimes next week for us to do the counting together? Or do you mean to say 39 columns instead of 49 because 6 additional column plus 33 columns equals 39 and not 49.
Pic 1: Columns added in red Pic 2: The building and the columns we installed. (1st column on the left in pic is B on the structural drawing)
_______
Oga segcymoor, can you point out any error in the structural drawing attached?
Yes, I am saying that and Yes you did all the pillars apart from the ones for the external Balcony which were done by the current Engineer on site. Remember you did not complete that section which was meant to have been done as part of the block work but thats another story. Yes we have 49 pillars in total. I have answered your question. Now can you answer mine?
Where the drawings done by a certified Architect? Were they signed off by a certified architect and Structural Engineer? What kind of approval do I have or have you done for me? Are these structural diagrams mine or not?
NO! You can never have 49 columns in the house. The grid with most columns has only 9 and we have only 4 grids. Unless you're counting some from both side.
Pic below: shows back and front section with 4 columns
Where the drawings done by a certified Architect? YES
Were they signed off by a certified architect and Structural Engineer? NO
Are these structural diagrams mine or not? The structural drawings are yours. I'm sure that's what you used for the first floor slab.
This is not correct. I will arrange a site visit so you can clear this up. Unless I am confusing pillars with something else I have definitely counted 49 on site. And in future I will appreciate if you kept the client's name confidential. I removed this before I posted the drawings so will appreciate if you do the same. I will arrange a site visit for you to clear this up once and for all.
Why weren't the drawings signed off by a certified Architect and Structural Engineer? I am sure this is what we paid for.
NO! You can never have 49 columns in the house. The grid with most columns has only 9 and we have only 4 grids. Unless you're counting some from both side.
Pic below: shows back and front section with 4 columns
Where the drawings done by a certified Architect? YES
Were they signed off by a certified architect and Structural Engineer? NO
Are these structural diagrams mine or not? The structural drawings are yours. I'm sure that's what you used for the first floor slab.
Are you saying these additional columns are unnecessary?
segcymoor: Brabus. In the first place I suggest u observed what brag3 does by respecting client privacy (covered d clients name and reattach)
Now,back to issues at hand. To start with the structural engineer that design this particular structure known what he's doing. Builder brabus, with due respect those additional columns is absolutely unnecessary. We are taking about less than 5.5m intervals.
You see, when structural engineer indicates columns. He supported it by analyzing each individual beam. That is why they called it structural details.
In one of our recent projects, we have span of almost 7m without column. That is when they respect builder or engr in question
As a case study, this particular concept is not far from what egbosa did in ondo that cause issues. Someone got to site and shout 'no column' to hold this beam. In reality d column is unnecessary.
