africaken:
sudanese soldiers heading to saudi arabia for exercise thunder of the north

Excuse my language, one wonders why the Sudanese are always so keen on kissing the As$ of Saudi-Arabia, when they (Sudan) has a major Darfur problem to attend to.

MikeCZAR:
I'm speakingfrom a African context.

Where it would be expensive to main a light and heavy real helicopter capability.

how many rooivalk do you have,can they cater for south african army needs in battle ?

africaken:
there is something most of us neglect ,light scout attack helicopters. which can be procured in large numbers to offer extra support to the heavy helicopter gunships like the america army OH-58 Kiowa Warrior

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNwcCj9YTn0

Properly armed light scout helicopters are irreplaceable in the military. They provide lots and lots of advantages. The French deployed their Gazelle widely and in support of SF operations in mali, they are an integral path of US army aviation, the KDF deploy them, we in Nigeria also deployed an estimated 12 units of LUH in support of Boko-Haram operations. The Nigerian army MSF have a dedicated air support wing made up of Gazelle LUH.


There are unconfirmed reports that the Paramount group are currently upgrading Five(5) Nigerian army aviation LUH.


In my opinion, Armies in Africa should operate light scout helicopters, while the Airforce operates heavy attack helicopters.

Henry240:


Properly armed light scout helicopters are irreplaceable in the military. They provide lots and lots of advantages. The French deployed their Gazelle widely and in support of SF operations in mali, they are an integral path of US army aviation, the KDF deploy them, we in Nigeria also deployed an estimated 12 units of LUH in support of Boko-Haram operations. The Nigerian army MSF have a dedicated air support wing made up of Gazelle LUH.


There are unconfirmed reports that the Paramount group are currently upgrading Five(5) Nigerian army aviation LUH.

while @MikeCZAR is trying to tell us its economically impossible to field both,while nigeria deployed both Gazelle LUH and Mil Hind's

frumentius:


The Egyptians and the Hungarians are also said to be interested.

Anyway not to read any meaning into a demonstration, however if the NAF is genuinely interested, and political leaders set aside their petty differences, the Rooivalk MK2 could be a decent success for the NAF and Africa.

africaken:
while @MikeCZAR is trying to tell us its economically impossible to field both,while nigeria deployed both Gazelle LUH and Mil Hind's

That's unfortunate.


Both Hind and Gazelle are a great force multiplier. We deployed both assets devastatinly in combat. It was so good additional units of both Hind E and up-graded Gazelles would enter service this year.


It is not economically impossible.

agaugust:
.
As part of the revitalised Rooivalk Mk 2 programme, Denel is moving forward with certifying the Mokopa missile on the aircraft and two missiles were fired during the Rooivalk demonstration on 3 and 4 February, 2016.

The Rooivalk launched the acclaimed 10 km range missile at a range of 8 km, which followed the laser beam from the Gripen, but narrowly missed the target.

Source : defenceweb, 7 hours ago.

http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-42356/

Guided missile Mokopa of 10 km range MISSED TARGET at 8 km firing range, so what will happen at 10 km ? What will happen if an attack helicopter missile misses a radar guided anti-aircraft SAM system like Pantsir in real war, not against rag tag rebels ?
.

Only an 1diot would have hid helos operate where heavy SPAAG is present

What would happen to any of the other attack helos in that context?



What you are not seeing is the multi-asset fusion that is bring demonstrated

africaken:
how many rooivalk do you have,can they cater for south african army needs in battle ?

11 and yes

Patchesagain:

Only an 1diot would have hid helos operate where heavy SPAAG is present


What you are not seeing is the multi-asset fusion that is bring demonstrated

More like
Hey I wanna die

Henry240:


Anyway not to read any meaning into a demonstration, however if the NAF is genuinely interested, and political leaders set aside their petty differences, the Rooivalk MK2 could be a decent success for the NAF and Africa.

Mainly a South African success

Patchesagain:

Only an 1diot would have hid helos operate where heavy SPAAG is present


What you are not seeing is the multi-asset fusion that is bring demonstrated

So you now say Rooivalk can ONLY operate against rag tag M23 rebels armed with ordinary machine guns like 14.5mm, and that Rooivalk cannot fight against a real army. Okay, I agree.

Multi-asset fusion that resulted in $40 million Rooivalk and $60 million Gripen = $ 100 million joint air assets firing an expensively priced guided missile and MISSING TARGET....MISSED A CLEARLY MARKED, ELECTRONICALLY DESIGNATED, AND CONFIRMED LOCATION TARGET in broad daylight...Alright, I see how the invited viewer air forces are expected to spend $ 100 million to fire and miss target in real life war and get k.illed in counter-fire reply from the enemy that has SAM and MANPAD like South Sudan army, not to talk of the real African regional powers.

Pic....South Sudan MANPAD
.

africaken:
how many rooivalk do you have,can they cater for south african army needs in battle ?

11 Rooivalks. One stationed at air force's Overberg AF base home to the Test flight and Development Centre.

Yes they can.

Lesser Rooivalks in the space means more vehicles or armour.

Henry240:


Excuse my language, one wonders why the Sudanese are always so keen on kissing the As$ of Saudi-Arabia, when they (Sudan) has a major Darfur problem to attend to.

Until you see what new weapons Saudi money is getting for them.

Patchesagain:


Mainly a South African success

-If it enters service with Nigeria, it becomes an African success.

africaken:
while @MikeCZAR is trying to tell us its economically impossible to field both,while nigeria deployed both Gazelle LUH and Mil Hind's

In small numbers.

MikeCZAR:
Until you see what new weapons Saudi money is getting for them.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

MikeCZAR:
11 Rooivalks. One stationed at air force's Overberg AF base home to the Test flight and Development Centre.

Yes they can.

Lesser Rooivalks in the space means more vehicles or armour.

for a peace time army like south africa army may be,but not countries like kenya and nigeria dealing with insurgents

MikeCZAR:
In small numbers.

Approx. 12 units of light scout helicopters were deployed in the AO


Admit you were wrong, let's move on.

agaugust:


So you now say Rooivalk can ONLY operate against rag tag M23 rebels armed with ordinary machine guns like 14.5mm, and that Rooivalk cannot fight against a real army. Okay, I agree.

Multi-asset fusion that resulted in $40 million Rooivalk and $60 million Gripen = $ 100 million joint air assets firing missile and MISSING TARGET...Alright, I see how the invited viewer air forces are expected to spend $ 100 million to fire and miss target in real life war and get k.illed in counter-fire reply from the enemy that has SAM and MANPAD like South Sudan army, not to talk of the real African regional powers.

Pic....South Sudan MANPAD
.

Doctrine.

Look at how the helicopters are used.

- The helicopter in anti-tank missions carries 16 missiles.

- It is protected against such threats.

Regional power?

MikeCZAR:
Doctrine.

Look at how the helicopters are used.

- The helicopter in anti-tank missions carries 16 missiles.

- It is protected against such threats.

Regional power?

10 km range MOKOPA HIGH PERFORMANCE GUIDED MISSILE missed a clearly marked and pre-confirmed target at 8 km firing range
.

Nigerian Army Commando

Henry240:


Approx. 12 units of LUH were deployed in the AO

Approximately!

Add 20> modern heavy attack helicopters( Mi-28, Apache, Rooivalk etc) . And see how your air forces copes.

Then have 30> medium transport helicopters.

Again I'm also of the opinion that the LUH weren't bought due to operational requirements.

MikeCZAR:
Approximately!

Add 20> modern heavy attack helicopters( Mi-28, Apache, Rooivalk etc) . And see how your air forces copes.

Then have 30> medium transport helicopters.

Again I'm also of the opinion that the LUH weren't bought due to operational requirements.

Heavy Attack Helicopters - Air Force


Light Scout Helicopters - Army


If the LSH were bought due to operational requirements, there won't be a follow-on order for both types. MI-35M and MI-17 terminator for Air Force, Gazelle for Army.

agaugust:


10 km range MOKOPA HIGH PERFORMANCE GUIDED MISSILE missed a clearly marked and pre-confirmed target at 8 km firing range
.

Not the operational missile.

Marked by a Gripen fighter jets during tests the telemetry missile used to collect data missed the target. The reason for the miss has not been established.

The Hellfire, India's Nag all have missed targets in tests.

Your point?

Again you demonstrate your lack of knowledge regarding missiles.

Henry240:


Heavy Attack Helicopters - Air Force


Light Scout Helicopters - Army


If the LSH were bought due to operational requirements, there won't be a follow-on order for both types. MI-35M and MI-17 terminator for Air Force, Gazelle for Army.

Standardized fleet? Nope.

Heavy dedicated attack helicopter in the class of Mi-28, Apache and the Rooivalk.

The types bought can again be debated and their origin.

africaken:
for a peace time army like south africa army may be,but not countries like kenya and nigeria dealing with insurgents

Yes, insurgents.

Nothing even the Oryx gunship can't handle backed by LIFT jets.

Read about the fireforce: Helicopter warfare.

http://www.jrtwood.com/article_fireforce.asp

MikeCZAR:
Standardized fleet? Nope.

Heavy dedicated attack helicopter in the class of Mi-28, Apache and the Rooivalk.

The types bought can again be debated and their origin.

Everything can be debated.


However, MI-17terminator and MI-35M are both from the same contract.

The MI-35M is a Heavy dedicated attack helicopter, terms are only going to confuse you.

Air Force = MIL

Army = EADS


What isn't standardised in the fleet?


Now...... You've gone pretty much off topic.

agaugust:


So you now say Rooivalk can ONLY operate against rag tag M23 rebels armed with ordinary machine guns like 14.5mm, and that Rooivalk cannot fight against a real army. Okay, I agree.

Multi-asset fusion that resulted in $40 million Rooivalk and $60 million Gripen = $ 100 million joint air assets firing an expensively priced guided missile and MISSING TARGET....MISSED A CLEARLY MARKED, ELECTRONICALLY DESIGNATED, AND CONFIRMED LOCATION TARGET in broad daylight...Alright, I see how the invited viewer air forces are expected to spend $ 100 million to fire and miss target in real life war and get k.illed in counter-fire reply from the enemy that has SAM and MANPAD like South Sudan army, not to talk of the real African regional powers.

Pic....South Sudan MANPAD
.

Wtf are you talking about?

It said "narrow miss" - so how do we know a soft skinned vehicle would survive?

Also, targeting was done by a Grip - how do we know Rooikvalk would miss if it targeted?

Also, what about Ingle and Spanish 76mm guided missiles?

Dude, your argument is ludicrous!!

MikeCZAR:
Yes, insurgents.

Nothing even the Oryx gunship can't handle backed by LIFT jets.

Read about the fireforce: Helicopter warfare.

http://www.jrtwood.com/article_fireforce.asp

brr

Henry240:


-If it enters service with Nigeria, it becomes an African success.

Africa has nothing to do with it

Itwould simply be our success

agaugust:


10 km range MOKOPA HIGH PERFORMANCE GUIDED MISSILE missed a clearly marked and pre-confirmed target at 8 km firing range
.

So what?

You think every missilehits 1100%of the time?

Demonstration was to show Rooivalk could use targeting info from other platforms

MikeCZAR:
Yes, insurgents.

Nothing even the Oryx gunship can't handle backed by LIFT jets.

Read about the fireforce: Helicopter warfare.

http://www.jrtwood.com/article_fireforce.asp

do you know how many forward operating bases we have in somalia .also a vulnerable border where alshabaab sneak in to ambush both military and police,plant IED and attack police stations and everyone want close air support and you still need to carry ISR tasks.this also is hundreds kilometers from where you carry out air craft overhaul

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2phuxU6xYnA