DoctorAlien:


LOL. I am forced to laugh. "you should do the same and agree he passed through a stage where he was cleansed".

Very funny. So, after Jesus forgave him, his sin remained? So Jesus' forgiveness is not enough for the sinner?

Luke: 17. 12. And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: 13. And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. 14. And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed. 15. And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God," so Jesus healing was not enough?? why then did he ask them to show themselves to the priest after healing them??

joey150:
oh i have never been there.
but fire is never pleasant either

Explain purgatory in relation to this verse. "Then shall he say unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" Matt. 25:41

joey150:
Luke: 17. 12. And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: 13. And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. 14. And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed. 15. And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God," so Jesus healing was not enough?? why then did he ask them to show themselves to the priest after healing them??

He told them to show themselves to the priests in obedience to the law of Moses. Priests examined those who had been healed of leprosy to certify them clean and fit to mingle with people.

You still have not told me when the thief passed through purgatory.

DoctorAlien:


Explain purgatory in relation to this verse. "Then shall he say unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" Matt. 25:41

remember.. not everybody dies and is deserving of purgatory so there is really still nothinh to explain. purgatory is not a compulsory stage all souls must pass through. some outrightly do not even qualify for it.

its been nice doing this..you have raised questions nearly everybody else would.. and i praise your sense of intuition too. i have to retire to bed now.
hopefully you have learnt something that its not all made up after all..stay blessed. cheers man! nyt.

joey150:
remember.. not everybody dies and is deserving of purgatory so there is really still nothinh to explain. purgatory is not a compulsory stage all souls must pass through. some outrightly do not even qualify for it.

its been nice doing this..you have raised questions nearly everybody else would.. and i praise your sense of intuition too. i have to retire to bed now.
hopefully you have learnt something that its not all made up after all..stay blessed. cheers man! nyt.

LOL. Some deserve purgatory while others do not? Is that what the Bible teaches?

Even the 1 Cor. 3:13 you totally misconstrued did not say "some men's work" will be passed through fire. It says "and the fire shall try EVERY man's work of what sort it is"

Now, if you claim 1 Cor. 3 is talking about purgatory, how come it says every man's work will be tried? When purgatory is not for everybody, according to you?

DoctorAlien:


He told them to show themselves to the priests in obedience to the law of Moses. Priests examined those who had been healed of leprosy to certify them clean and fit to mingle with people.

You still have not told me when the thief passed through purgatory.

hahah...you expected him to have said it all on the cross..hey thief you'll go to purgatory then probably wave to st peter at heavens gate then probably take a cloak from angel gabriel before cominh to be with me.
innit? this question surely lacks credibility. or did the bible also really transpired when Jesus went to hades(hell) to?!

quit looking for everything word for word in thr bible. it aint a comprehension passage

Lies like this are what turned some people into infidels. Lies like this presents GOD as a partial, bitter, vengeful and unforgiving Sadist.

When you tell people that even after their sins are forgiven, they have to be punished before they go to Heaven, why won't they have a distorted view of GOD?

When you encourage people to sin by telling them that they can still find a way around it and make Heaven, are you teaching GOD's word?

"But in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men" Matt. 15:9.

joey150:
hahah...you expected him to have said it all on the cross..hey thief you'll go to purgatory then probably wave to st peter at heavens gate then probably take a cloak from angel gabriel before cominh to be with me.
innit? this question surely lacks credibility. or did the bible also really transpired when Jesus went to hades(hell) to?!

quit looking for everything word for word in thr bible. it aint a comprehension passage

What is he saying?

When did the thief go to purgatory?

Where does the Scripture teach that there's anything like purgatory?

DoctorAlien:
Lies like this are what turned some people into infidels. Lies like this presents GOD as a partial, bitter, vengeful and unforgiving Sadist.

When you tell people that even after their sins are forgiven, they have to be punished before they go to Heaven, why won't they have a distorted view of GOD?

When you encourage people to sin by telling them that they can still find a way around it and make Heaven, are you teaching GOD's word?

"But in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men" Matt. 15:9.

hahah so Jesus thought vane too then?
same as saint paul? people are unbeliveable.

if your objection to purgatory is the fact that Jesus didnt tell the thief on the cross categorically that he was going to purgatory then i find that quite amusing. in fact very!

either ways you could look up II Maccabees 12:39-46. for more references. other real catholic evidences of purgatory, are sadly not in thr bible as it took time and also a lot of personal encounters by saints as well as religious to actually uphold the originality of purgatory

it aint my fault if you cannot see through the facts.
i wonder how many peoole will die perfectly chaste and unblemished.

joey150:
Jesus assured him..right i agree.. remember i said purgatory is temporal. its not a permanent place, so its quite possible he still passed through that phase.

you might say Jesus said tonight, but then you cannot restrict God to time,space or quantity. and also recall that Jesus spent about 40more days on earth before ascending into heaven.

You are assuming, Jesus speaks in clear terms, no assumptions.

When you say Jesus spent 40 more days on earth, do you mean after resurrection Jesus didn't present himself to Yahweh until 40 days later?

DoctorAlien:


What is he saying?

When did the thief go to purgatory?

Where does the Scripture teach that there's anything like purgatory?

its like the word PURGATORY gives you chills, its just a word given to the temporal stage. purgatory meaning to purge, to cleanse.
stop asking me where the scripture says, i have shown you at least on 3 differnet bible verses, where a place like purgatory was described.

and your thief question, its plain ludicrous. sorry i cannot actually show you where they gisted about purgatory on the cross

DoctorAlien:


So people go to purgatory at death, according to you?

There's something about this Purgatory doctrine that is very similar to a teaching in Islam.
I wish i can draw up that Sura now. Anunaki please help.
That Sura says, all Muslims will go to a Hell-like kind of place pending resurrection and Judgement. Its believed that a bridge will be build connecting that place with an outer plain where Judgement will take place and Muhammed will be first to use that bridge to come out of that Hell.
Who copied from who? I think, Islam copied from Catholicism.

joey150:
its like the word PURGATORY gives you chills, its just a word given to the temporal stage. purgatory meaning to purge, to cleanse.
stop asking me where the scripture says, i have shown you at least on 3 differnet bible verses, where a place like purgatory was described.

and your thief question, its plain ludicrous. sorry i cannot actually show you where they gisted about purgatory on the cross

You left many of my questions unanswered.

When do people go to purgatory?

analice107:

You are assuming, Jesus speaks in clear terms, no assumptions.

When you say Jesus spent 40 more days on earth, do you mean after resurrection Jesus didn't present himself to Yahweh until 40 days later?

We know from the Bible that Jesus ascended 10 days before Pentecost and that He was crucified during the Passover. So, that would mean he was on earth approximately 40 days before His ascension.

analice107:

There's something about this Purgatory doctrine that is very similar to a teaching in Islam.
I wish i can draw up that Sura now. Anunaki please help.
That Sura says, all Muslims will go to a Hell-like kind of place pending resurrection and Judgement. Its believed that a bridge will be build connecting that place with an outer plain where Judgement will take place and Muhammed will be first to use that bridge to come out of that Hell.
Who copied from who? I think, Islam copied from Catholicism.

lol. funny you.
i didnt know about islam. but note that purgatory isnt for everybody. as i have clearly stated.

its safe to assume that either all the time you where in the catholic church you never understood what was going on, or some other events actually influenced your decision to leave.

that is why half education is dangerous.

joey150:
its like the word PURGATORY gives you chills, its just a word given to the temporal stage. purgatory meaning to purge, to cleanse.
stop asking me where the scripture says, i have shown you at least on 3 differnet bible verses, where a place like purgatory was described.

Explain purgatory in the light of this verse: "...And He will thoroughly purge His floor, and gather His wheat into the garner; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." Matt. 3:12

DoctorAlien:


You left many of my questions unanswered.

When do people go to purgatory?

when? how? with whom? whp presides over it...really?! i stated that when you die in GODS GRACE but still contain some form of sin..(not mortal sin) you pass through a purge or purification stage. so that you can still be united with God in heaven after your purification. as nothing unclean shall enter heaven.

that is all about what i can tell you about when people go there.

it's like asking me what goes on in Heaven or hell... i havent been..sorry.

joey150:
when? how? with whom? whp presides over it...really?! i stated that when you die in GODS GRACE but still contain some form of sin..(not mortal sin) you pass through a purge or purification stage. so that you can still be united with God in heaven after your purification. as nothing unclean shall enter heaven.

that is all about what i can tell you about when people go there.

it's like asking me what goes on in Heaven or hell... i havent been..sorry.

Since you know much about purgatory teaching, tell me: when does this purification take place?

You can't tell? You have found no basis for your lies in the Scripture?

joey150:
when? how? with whom? whp presides over it...really?! i stated that when you die in GODS GRACE but still contain some form of sin..(not mortal sin) you pass through a purge or purification stage. so that you can still be united with God in heaven after your purification. as nothing unclean shall enter heaven.

that is all about what i can tell you about when people go there.

it's like asking me what goes on in Heaven or hell... i havent been..sorry.

We know what happens in Heaven, because the Scripture tells us.

We know what will happen in hell, because the scripture tells us.

But we have not seen any idea of purgatory in the Bible, neither were we told what will happen there.

So tell me, purgatory teacher, when does purification in purgatory take place?

DoctorAlien:


We know what happens in Heaven, because the Scripture tells us.

We know what will happen in hell, because the scripture tells us.

But we have not seen any idea of purgatory in the Bible, neither were we told what will happen there.

So tell me, purgatory teacher, when does purification in purgatory take place?

i said purification through fire. if you want a detailed encyclopedia hmmm sorry i do not have one. not everything in the bible was explained in detail.

just as it is unclear where Jesus went after his death, which was niether heaven nor hell nor earth before his accession into heaven.
that is why he had apostled who where guided by the holy spirit who did not even understand all he had thought them at that time. subsequently teachings where passed and sadly not all was in the bible.

but i have clearly showed you hints all over the bible where this place i am telling you about was actually "described".

I think the doctrine of Purgatory was derived from the passage below. Lets look at it critically.

Luke 16:19-31 There was a certain rich man who [habitually] clothed himself in purple and fine linen and reveled and feasted and made merry in splendor every day.
And at his gate there was [carelessly] dropped down and left a certain utterly destitute man named Lazarus, [reduced to begging alms and] covered with [ulcerated] sores.
He [eagerly] desired to be satisfied with what fell from the rich man’s table; moreover, the dogs even came and licked his sores.
And it occurred that the man [reduced to] begging died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
And in Hades (the realm of the dead), being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom.
And he cried out and said, Father Abraham, have pity and mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.
But Abraham said, Child, remember that you in your lifetime fully received [what is due you in] comforts and delights, and Lazarus in like manner the discomforts and distresses; but now he is comforted here and you are in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who want to pass from this [place] to you may not be able, and no one may pass from there to us.

And [the man] said, Then, father, I beseech you to send him to my father’s house— For I have five brothers—so that he may give [solemn] testimony and warn them, lest they too come into this place of torment.

But Abraham said, They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear and listen to them.

But he answered, No, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent (change their minds for the better and heartily amend their ways, with abhorrence of their past sins).

He said to him, If they do not hear and listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded and convinced and believe [even] if asomeone should rise from the dead.

The above passage posits that this place is a place of waiting. no other thing is done here other than wait for resurrection.
Purgatory is a place of continuous work to make up for what was missed while alive.
It almost like reincarnation.
Its a place of Purging, cleansing, repentance from the sins which were not repented of while alive. what does the cleansing and purging is what i need to know, because the blood of Jesus is not effectual in the realm of the spirits.

If there is room for repentance after death, the rich man in Jesus' Parable would have opted for it, instead of pleading with Father Abraham to pls send someone back to the realm of men to warn his brethren not to come where he was.

If one can make amends beyond the grave, the rich man would switched into action immediately he discovered himself in torments.

But if we should go by this doctrine, we will let Christ go completely. eg
The Finished work of Christ. The efficacy of the blood of atonement.
It'll make Redemption void. As a matter of fact, it will make the mission of Christ on earth useless.
The teaching of Purgatory posits that, the blood of Jesus is not enough to cleans our sins, making void the act of Grace.

There is a very subtile but tacit error enclosed in this teaching, and a careful perusal of it, will lead us straight to the ideologies which by- passes Jesus as the only way to Yahweh or the ideologies which posits that there's no Hellfire at all.

It believes in the act of Penance. Entering into paradise if "Your Good works surpasses your transgressions.
The Bible says we are SAVED BY GRACE AND NOT BY WORKS", Justification is by grace through the blood of Jesus Christ.

You cant believe in Christ and His finished work and at the same time believe in Purgatory.

Cc: Postmann.
Scholar
Lastmessenger
Ayoku777

joey150:
your first 2 questions i believe where answerd in my first post. sins are measured in venial/mortal sins. i guess you didnt read the post fully, please take your time to. persons who die in Gods grace but still are not entirely sinless not just any person, take note! i may get 48 out of 100 in an exam and still be considered to pass..you get 20 in that same exam..its a straight F.. relate with it on that example.

the soul that sinneth shall die... going by that statement we all should be dead..or shouldn't we?

What do you mean by "People who died without being entirely sinless?" Does the Blood of Jesus remits for sins in measures? or does Yahweh forgives sins small small?
Sir, "The Soul that sinneth shall die" is not referring to the death of the flesh, it meant Spiritual death. Everybody in the mortal flesh dies, even Jesus did. The death meant there is the separation from God which is to Hellfire.
I hope you know that hell is not the same as Hellfire?

joey150:
i said purification through fire. if you want a detailed encyclopedia hmmm sorry i do not have one. not everything in the bible was explained in detail.

just as it is unclear where Jesus went after his death, which was niether heaven nor hell nor earth before his accession into heaven.
that is why he had apostled who where guided by the holy spirit who did not even understand all he had thought them at that time. subsequently teachings where passed and sadly not all was in the bible.

There is no confusion whatsoever as to where Jesus went after His resurrection, because it was plainly stated in the Bible.

So, when does "purification by fire" take place?

The Bible says that if we ask GOD for forgiveness, He is able to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.(1 Jn. 1:9) If He is able to do this, how is it that there remains a sin to be cleansed by a fire?

analice107:
I think the doctrine of Purgatory was derived from the passage below. Lets look at it critically.

Luke 16:19-31 There was a certain rich man who [habitually] clothed himself in purple and fine linen and reveled and feasted and made merry in splendor every day.

Cc: Postmann.
Scholar
Lastmessenger
Ayoku777

oh well, first you dont just opt to be in purgatory or hell or heaven.. did the rich man die in Gods grace? did he merit purgatory? thats a bit sketchy.

secondly,souls in purgatory are heaven bound there are no damnation of souls in purgatory. one cannot make amends after THE GRAVE. if you merit Gods grace while on earth and you are not perfectly clean you will be purified before uniting with him. nobody is saying you automatically choose after death and opt for purgatory or that we should live unholy lives and aim for it in the end.

it is simply put, purification by fire.

Jesus himself was well aware when he said in Matthew 12:31-32 "niether in this world nor the NEXT" meaning there is actually somewhere else apart from this world where sins can be attoned for.

DoctorAlien:


There is no confusion whatsoever as to where Jesus went after His resurrection, because it was plainly stated in the Bible.

So, when does "purification by fire" take place?

The Bible says that if we ask GOD for forgiveness, He is able to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.(1 Jn. 1:9) If He is able to do this, how is it that there remains a sin to be cleansed by a fire?

you miss the whole point. nobody is negating the fact that Jesus forgives sin.

point is does everybody actually die chaste? unblemished?
souls who do not, and still die in Gods grace are cleansed in purgatory. thats the simple truth. it dosent aim to understate any thing written in the bible about Gods ability to forgive us from our sins.

i have showed you where Jesus himself spoke about this.. yet you people are reluctant to even admit it even exists.
wow!

joey150:
secondly,souls in purgatory are heaven bound there are no damnation of souls in purgatory. one cannot make amends after THE GRAVE. if you merit Gods grace while on earth and you are not perfectly clean you will be purified before uniting with him. nobody is saying you automatically choose after death and opt for purgatory or that we should live unholy lives and aim for it in the end.

So this is what the scripture teaches?

Since when did we start meriting grace? So some people merit grace while others don't? Who merits grace and who doesn't

Really? Grace is merited?

DoctorAlien:


So this is what the scripture teaches?

Since when did we start meriting grace? So some people merit grace while others don't? Who merits grace and who doesn't

Really? Grace is merited?

rather die in Gods grace. Thats a better way to put it.

You are short of ideas really..so you just poke holes wherever you can.

DoctorAlien:


There is no confusion whatsoever as to where Jesus went after His resurrection, because it was plainly stated in the Bible.

So, when does "purification by fire" take place?

The Bible says that if we ask GOD for forgiveness, He is able to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.(1 Jn. 1:9) If He is able to do this, how is it that there remains a sin to be cleansed by a fire?

oh educate me.. Where was that please

joey150:
rather die in Gods grace. Thats a better way to put it.

You are short of ideas really..so you just poke holes wherever you can.

How can someone die in GOD's grace? Where can this "dying in GOD's grace" teaching be found in the Scripture?

joey150:
oh educate me.. Where was that please

Answer the question you quoted and I will tell you.

DoctorAlien:


How can someone die in GOD's grace? Where can this "dying in GOD's grace" teaching be found in the Scripture?

doctor alien we have dabbled about this on and on. My evidence for purgatory is clear. Read up and choose to believe or dont.

Because you are beginning to ask very petty questions now. If you dont believe that there is a place where sin can Be attoned for other than earth as Jesus and saint Paul stated. Then really i have nothing to add or subtract regarding this.

We are going in circles and its clear the rotation would be infinite judging at this rate we are going.

Just bear in mind that other than earth there is actually a place where some sins can be attoned for. If you dont, even after Jesus himself said so. Why bother read the bible at all? Since you choose which parts to follow and which not to.

DoctorAlien:


How can someone die in GOD's grace? Where can this "dying in GOD's grace" teaching be found in the Scripture?

so everything has to be stated word for word and letter for letter jn the scripture? Despite the fact that you know all Jesus works and teachings where not all documented in the scripture.