laribari:

This is the greatest secret of God hid in Christ. The world can never ever understand the mystery behind salvation and a man that is saved can loose it again. Except the person was never truly saved. How does born again work?

This is not true. A believer can lose his salvation. And there are many warnings addressed to believers in the epistles that make that fact clear.

Shalom!

Laribari i can only when i read your posts.

I am still . you get the concept but not the whole idea.
I still believe all this brouhaha arises from the need that everybody thinks they understand the bible and can set up a church and say God asked me to.
Same God that asked the other many thousands to do the same??

Who is actually deceiving who? Sad really!

joey150:
Laribari i can only ;s.

I am still . you get the concept but not the whole idea.
I still believe all this brouhI have ha arises from the need that everybody thinks they understand the bible and can set up a church and say God asked me to.
Same God that asked the other many thousands to do the same??

Who is actually deceiving who? Sad really!

Honestly, when novice of scripture talk I know them and I always laugh becos each post just reveal their position as people just trying to create their own philosophy. How did I get here? That is because I listen to sound preachers, read books and study too.i didn't say I'm superman and I still go to church and not thinking I know it all.

You just don't know that everybody with vast knowledge of God's word is not a pastor and will never open a church when God does not ask me to. mind you, if I have to tell you where I fall in, then it will be a teacher or evangelist and I do not need open a church for that. Everybody can do service to God in various way. There are pastors, evangelist, teachers, apostles and prophets.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teacher.

I am not seeking money or fame, neither did I acquire this knowledge today. I teacher of God's word but not in churches except on two ocassions that I taught from the pulpit and one was Redeem youth programme. This journey started in early 2000 on campus and why haven't I started church since?

You don't know me and how I reason or approach God. Don't judge me with the others. Not every good preach can pastor churches.

I laugh at you my friend becos you think I'm deceiving myself but im not. If I am, by now I will be running faster than my shadow.

It's just good to know God's word and to understand His ways becos not everyone can get the basis but it's in the bible.


You said I have the concept but not the whole idea. Thanks for admitting at least that I have impacted some positives. However, if I have a concept (revelation or enlightment) of something then I have the whole idea (truth) because Ideas comes from having a concept of the whole thing.

For me, I'm too loaded for anyone to carjole me with the word and isn't it why Paul said study to show urself approved? When you study your wisdom level increases too. Wisdom as in knowing what is right from wrong and also how to approach people with contrary view. Sometimes, it's like thinking ahead or when they talk you just see a lot things wrong, especially when it's not in line with God's word.

I will not write so much now, I just woke up from a short sleep and had to take care of somethings.

We might talk later pending on mood or ur mentions.

laribari:


Honestly, when novice of scripture talk I know them and I always laugh becos each post just reveal their position as people just trying to create their own philosophy. How did I get here? That is because I listen to sound preachers, read books and study too.i didn't say I'm superman and I still go to church and not thinking I know it all.

You just don't know that everybody with vast knowledge of God's word is not a pastor and will never open a church when God does not ask me to. mind you, if I have to tell you where I fall in, then it will be a teacher or evangelist and I do not need open a church for that. Everybody can do service to God in various way. There are pastors, evangelist, teachers, apostles and prophets.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teacher.

I am not seeking money or fame, neither did I acquire this knowledge today. I teacher of God's word but not in churches except on two ocassions that I taught from the pulpit and one was Redeem youth programme. This journey started in early 2000 on campus and why haven't I started church since?

You don't know me and how I reason or approach God. Don't judge me with the others. Not every good preach can pastor churches.

I laugh at you my friend becos you think I'm deceiving myself but im not. If I am, by now I will be running faster than my shadow.

It's just good to know God's word and to understand His ways becos not everyone can get the basis but it's in the bible.


You said I have the concept but not the whole idea. Thanks for admitting at least that I have impacted some positives. However, if I have a concept (revelation or enlightment) of something then I have the whole idea (truth) because Ideas comes from having a concept of the whole thing.

For me, I'm too loaded for anyone to carjole me with the word and isn't it why Paul said study to show urself approved? When you study your wisdom level increases too. Wisdom as in knowing what is right from wrong and also how to approach people with contrary view. Sometimes, it's like thinking ahead or when they talk you just see a lot things wrong, especially when it's not in line with God's word.

I will not write so much now, I just woke up from a short sleep and had to take care of somethings.

We might talk later pending on mood or ur mentions.

ha! He has completely read another meaning to my comment.

I have said all i have to say, both in the conversations that ensued between me and people on this thread and my first sets of post.

Anyway,dear friend i will continue to correct and voice my opinions in parts of your post i dont feel comfortable with. I have said my piece on the purgatory matter for now.
Cheers!

joey150:
ha! He has completely read another meaning to my comment.

I have said all i have to say, both in the conversations that ensued between me and people on this thread and my first sets of post.

Anyway,dear friend i will continue to correct and voice my opinions in parts of your post i dont feel comfortable with. I have said my piece on the purgatory matter for now.
Cheers!

So, you haven't shown me where the Bible teaches purgatory. eh?

joey150:
thank you for the kind words

You are welcome bro, continue the good works. I stand to assure you that there is nothing the Catholic Church teaches that contradicts scripture in anyway. Despite this, the church and not scripture is the "pillar and ground of truth". People who condemn out of ignorance eventually arrive as long as they are receptive to truth. See the one making too much noise above, but with just three sentences and without quoting scripture, a basic truth has been declared to him by Ayoku777, which completely nullifies all his rants and boasts up there. Let him come and demand scripture support.

joey150:
ha! He has completely read another meaning to my comment.

I have said all i have to say, both in the conversations that ensued between me and people on this thread and my first sets of post.

Anyway,dear friend i will continue to correct and voice my opinions in parts of your post i dont feel comfortable with. I have said my piece on the purgatory matter for now.
Cheers!

I didn't take ur words like fight but hilarious, don't worry we are good.

Yea but that doesn't mean purgatory is real. When people say what they think, hear or feel, it doesn't mean it is always correct.

You didn't prove anything about purgatory scripturally. Not one place or where it is described. Describe oh and not even mentioned.

I have explained to u, even showed you what is closed to purgatory in the bible but u never show me one. I like to stay within scriptures because the bible says let God be true and all man a liar.

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Purgatory is a myth in the head of those who believe, simply because were told so by men. Did you bother ask where it is in the bible?

I don speak my mind and I go still speak more....

ayoku777:


This is not true. A believer can lose his salvation. And there are many warnings addressed to believers in the epistles that make that fact clear.

Shalom!

Thank you for speaking out what you believe is true. I know some people who would have looked the other way, as long as it's against the Catholic Church.

DoctorAlien:


So, you haven't shown me where the Bible teaches purgatory. eh?

ahn ahn..doc! all our long discussions has been about what?

you have all failed to see reason.. you say it must be stated outrightly. i gave you evidences where the bible also states thar not everything was stated in it. and where the apostles even admitted to teaching the faithfuls then traditions and teachings in epistles where they are encouraged to hold on to them.

so coming to me from the bible alone stand point is now void. that aside i also showed you more than 3 scriptures hinting at purgatory..but no u insisted to see the word PURGATORY. i agreed, but only if you show me the word BIBLE in the bible.

cheers doc! hope the aliens are doing great today

The bitter truth is that some people think this is a battle about the supremacy of churches. But it's not.

In GOD's eyes, there's only one church: the church that lives strictly by His word. "One LORD, one Faith, one baptism" Eph. 4:5

Open your eyes people! This is a battle between good and evil; between Christ and Satan! Open your eyes people! Satan is trying to lull the church into a deadly sleep of forgetting GOD's word! Open your eyes people! Satan is trying to replace the Bible with fables in the Church.

The same reason why Jesus gave the Pharisees a scathing rebuke - making obscure the truth of GOD's word by traditions and commandments of men- can be seen in Christianity today.

Please, for your own good, read your Bible for yourself. You will not enter Heaven because you were a catholic or you worshipped with any denomination: you will only enter Heaven based on the relationship you have with Christ, how much you were willing to obey Him on earth.

joey150:
ahn ahn..doc! all our long discussions has been about what?

you have all failed to see reason.. you say it must be stated outrightly. i gave you evidences where the bible also states thar not everything was stated in it. and where the apostles even admitted to teaching the faithfuls then traditions and teachings in epistles where they are encouraged to hold on to them.

so coming to me from the bible alone stand point is now void. that aside i also showed you more than 3 scriptures hinting at purgatory..but no u insisted to see the word PURGATORY. i agreed, but only if you show me the word BIBLE in the bible.

cheers doc! hope the aliens are doing great today

You have not shown me any place that says people will suffer before they enter Heaven because the Blood of Jesus was not enough to make them worthy of Heaven.

That's what purgatory is, right?

Syncan:


You are welcome bro, continue the good works. I stand to assure you that there is nothing the Catholic Church teaches that contradicts scripture in anyway. Despite this, the church and not scripture is the "pillar and ground of truth". People who condemn out of ignorance eventually arrive as long as they are receptive to truth. See the one making too much noise above, but with just three sentences and without quoting scripture, a basic truth has been declared to him by Ayoku777, which completely nullifies all his rants and boasts up there. Let him come and demand scripture support.

Chai!!! This dude don spoil everything.

Despite this, the church and not scripture is the "pillar and ground of truth".. Really?? Ah!

Didn't the bible say heaven and earth Sha pass away but my word shall remain?

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Jesus is the word of God and the truth. So you. Mean without God's word u will get the truth?


Another failed comment. Please stop talking because u are empty. You just denied Christ His glory. Will church not pass away? Abi u think there will be church in heaven? Lol

It's okay to praise your friend he shares same view with but u can't get me by doing that. Also don't mix it up with scripturally foolishness. All ur own Na church, church, church. U think church will save anyone? It is what u know that is the truth that will set u free. Ye shall know the truth (the word of God) and not ye Sha attend church for u to be free. Devils don't go to church?

As for Ayoku777, I didn't answer him yet because I was sleeping and since I got back been talking to you guys. I was going to respond...lol.

You too funny honestly. So u think he is correct? I didn't rush to answer him cos the gist will need a lot of scriptures as proof. So I chill first.

You have encountered me twice and u still don't know a thing abt me.

Here it is.....I DON'T GIVE UP on the truth

DoctorAlien:


You have not shown me any place that says people will suffer before they enter Heaven because the Blood of Jesus was not enough to make them worthy of Heaven.

That's what purgatory is, right?

no! without mincing words.
if a soul is clean and without sin..that soul shall unite with God after death.

if a soul is with sin,but not sin unto death(venial sin). this soul is not perfectly sinless.. this soul is heaven bound already. but to attain the unblemished requirement of heaven. that soul must be cleansed. the soul is only temporarily serperated from God. this is basic purgatory in a nut shell.

we have gone over this...i have even put of verses countless numbers of times about sins which are unto death and also about cleansing via fire if your works contain faults.

i never explicitly stated that all souls will suffer to see God, or that the sacrifice of Jesus was incomplete.

Joey150, the Bible tells us that there'll be only one group of people in Heaven: "...And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Rev. 7:14

Their robes were not washed in the purgatory, or any other place. The blood of Jesus is sufficient for cleansing.

So, show me where the Scripture says another group will wash their robes in the purgatory and then enter Heaven.

laribari:



Chai!!! This dude don spoil everything.

Despite this, the church and not scripture is the "pillar and ground of truth".. Really?? Ah!

Didn't the bible say heaven and earth Sha pass away but my word shall remain?

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Jesus is the word of God and the truth. So you. Mean without God's word u will get the truth?


Another failed comment. Please stop talking because u are empty. You just denied Christ His glory. Will church not pass away? Abi u think there will be church in heaven? Lol

It's okay to praise your friend he shares same view with but u can't get me by doing that. Also don't mix it up with scripturally foolishness. All ur own Na church, church, church. U think church will save anyone? It is what u know that is the truth that will set u free. Ye shall know the truth (the word of God) and not ye Sha attend church for u to be free. Devils don't go to church?

As for Ayoku777, I didn't answer him yet because I was sleeping and since I got back been talking to you guys. I was going to respond...lol.

You too funny honestly. So u think he is correct? I didn't rush to answer him cos the gist will need a lot of scriptures as proof. So I chill first.

You have encountered me twice and u still don't know a thing abt me.

Here it is.....I DON'T GIVE UP on the truth

Do you now doubt the scripture you claim to follow? 1Tim3:15 "... thechurch of the living God, the pillar and ground of truth".
Here scripture calls her the pillar and ground of truth.

Yes I talk about church, because you have to prove to me that you are not a blind guide " Can a blind lead the blind ?" LK.6:39

[quote=ayoku777 post=45621723]

This is not true. A believer can lose his salvation. And there are many warnings addressed to believers in the epistles that make that fact clear.

Shalom![/quote]

Sorry my response was late and I believe we all have a life outside NL and can't always here to quickly respond to mentions. That said!

Please why do you think a believer can loose his or her salvation? I will be glad if we can run through these warnings together and also learn from each other.

This is the most important of what Jesus came to do and Also proved Himself as king or kings.

I'm glad we will stay within scriptures because I usually do not accept teachings or philosophy outside the word of God.

Welcome on board and I'm sure I'm people are waiting to learn from us..

I will just go to the point.

DoctorAlien:
Joey150, the Bible tells us that there'll be only one group of people in Heaven: "...And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Rev. 7:14

Their robes were not washed in the purgatory, or any other place. The blood of Jesus is sufficient for cleansing.

So, show me where the Scripture says another group will wash their robes in the purgatory and then enter Heaven.

did the bible state where they washed their robes or the great tribulation in that verse? so how then did you logically rule out the possibility that it cannot be purgatory?

do you expect every verse in the bible to be laced with purgatory?
that been said, what you stated does in no way prove or disprove purgatory.

joey150:
did the bible state where they washed their robes or the great tribulation in that verse? so how then did you logically rule out the possibility that it cannot be purgatory?

do you expect every verse in the bible to be laced with purgatory?
that been said, what you stated does in no way prove or disprove purgatory.

But it is clear to us that only one group will be in Heaven: those who washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb.

Is the Blood of Jesus purgatory?

Of course, the Bible does not teach purgatory. It's a pagan belief that found its way into the apostate church. It's a lie!

joey150:
did the bible state where they washed their robes or the great tribulation in that verse? so how then did you logically rule out the possibility that it cannot be purgatory?

Yes: in the blood of the lamb.

Their robes were not washed in the purgatory.

DoctorAlien:


But it is clear to us that only one group will be in Heaven: those who washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb.

Is the Blood of Jesus purgatory?

Of course, the Bible does not teach purgatory. It's a pagan belief that found its way into the apostate church. It's a lie!

i was making reference to that same verse. i know of the blood of the lamb.
so why do you think that the great tribulation cannot then mean purgatory? since we are making up cheap excuses here.

and lets be clean and straight here.. purgatory aside. Do you believe that the apostles passed on traditions and epistles that where not recorded in the bible?

do you believe that all The teachings of christ was not included in the bible?
your answers here go a long way to putting this matter to rest.

DoctorAlien:


Yes: in the blood of the lamb.

Their robes were not washed in the purgatory.

The washing effect of the blood of the lamb is felt, even by the "spirits in prison". 1Pet.3:19

Syncan:


Do you now doubt the scripture you claim to follow? 1Tim3:15 "... thechurch of the living God, the pillar and ground of truth".
Here scripture calls her the pillar and ground of truth.

Yes I talk about church, because you have to prove to me that you are not a blind guide " Can a blind lead the blind ?" LK.6:39

I will be quick because u just messed up again. Do you even understand the scriptures? How do you read it?

I already told you to bring up any scripture and I will school you because that is where I live. You may say I'm arrogant but you are no less because you claim to know and you don't which makes it so funny.

Okay, lets look at the scripture.....

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

When Paul said the ground of truth, he was making reference to a physical building, a house where people gather to worship God, a ground where people hear the word of truth.

That does not make the church the truth because Jesus is the only truth. The pillar talks about the poles standing inside the building that upholds the truth. When we preach, we uphold the truth of Jesus' word. The saints of God, serving as pillars is what upholds the truth but we are not the truth as pillars, Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. The truth is the scriptures, the world of God.

The house of God which is the Church has pillars (people that makes it stand) that upholds but it's the ground where the truth (Jesus) is preached.

It is people like you who turn bible upside down that makes people say the bible contradicts itself.

The major thing wrong with ur post was when u said..... the church is more important than the scriptures. Haba, listen to yourself.

Who is the scripture? Jesus and will never pass away. The bible says the word becomes flesh and dwells among us.

joey150:
i was making reference to that same verse. i know of the blood of the lamb.
so why do you think that the great tribulation cannot then mean purgatory? since we are making up cheap excuses here.

I'm sorry but if you think you are here to make cheap excuses, then you're alone on that.

So, the great tribulation is now purgatory?

( )

[quote author=joey150 post=45628072] i was making reference to that same verse. i know of the blood of the lamb.
so why do you think that the great tribulation cannot then mean purgatory? since we are making up cheap excuses here.

and lets be clean and straight here.. purgatory aside. Do you believe that the apostles passed on traditions and epistles that where not recorded in the bible?do you believe that all The teachings of christ was not included in the bible?
your answers here go a long way to putting this [/Quote]

It's really funny how much people are willing to distort the Word of GOD to suit the lies they have chosen to believe.

laribari:


I will be quick because u just messed up again. Do you even understand the scriptures? How do you read it?

I already told you to bring up any scripture and I will school you because that is where I live. You may say I'm arrogant but you are no less because you claim to know and you don't which makes it so funny.

Okay, lets look at the scripture.....

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

When Paul said the ground of truth, he was making reference to a physical building, a house where people gather to worship God, a ground where people hear the word of truth.

That does not make the church the truth because Jesus is the only truth. The pillar talks about the things that upholds the truth. The house of God is what upholds the truth but that is not the truth. The truth is the scriptures, the world of God.

The house of God which is the Church is the pillar that upholds and the ground where the truth (Jesus) is preached.

It is people like you who turn bible upside down that makes people say the bible contradicts itself.

The major thing wrong with ur post was when u said..... the church is more important than the scriptures. Haba, listen to yourself.

Who is the scripture? Jesus and will never pass away. The bible says the word becomes flesh and dwells among us.

Hahahaha, so a mass of cement, or in some cases a collection of woods, is your pillar and ground of truth abi? Ok, what about when the word is propagated here on NL, it will not have pillar and ground of truth na. Lol.
Mister, the ground of truth is the mystical Church instituted by Christ in Matt.16:18. The church with the keys to the kingdom, of which the powers of Hades cannot overcome

joey150:
i was making reference to that same verse. i know of the blood of the lamb.
so why do you think that the great tribulation cannot then mean purgatory?

Since there will only be one group in Heaven: those who washed their robes in the blood of the lamb, where is purgatory in the picture?

If you say the great tribulation is purgatory, when did/does it take place? Will somebody like Moses go to this purgatory too?

If you say the great tribulation is purgatory, it then means that everybody in Heaven must have passed through purgatory (because all of them came through great tribulation).

This counters the point you made earlier that not everybody will go to purgatory. Explain.

DoctorAlien:


Since there will only be one group in Heaven: those who washed their robes in the blood of the lamb, where is purgatory in the picture?

If you say the great tribulation is purgatory, when did/does it take place? Will somebody like Moses go to this purgatory too?

The great tribulation is not purgatory. Purgatory is not experienced on earth.

Syncan:


The great tribulation is not purgatory. Purgatory is not experienced on earth.

Where and when is it experienced?

DoctorAlien:


Since there will only be one group in Heaven: those who washed their robes in the blood of the lamb, where is purgatory in the picture?

If you say the great tribulation is purgatory, when did/does it take place? Will somebody like Moses go to this purgatory too?

If you say the great tribulation is purgatory, it then means that everybody in Heaven must have passed through purgatory (because all of them came through great tribulation).

This counters the point you made earlier that not everybody will go to purgatory. Explain.

i do not say so..i have told you that verse has nothing to do with purgatory. That was plain sarcasm there. Since you literally wanna pick out every word from the bible and make out purgatory from it.

And please answer my question. Lets know where we stand here

DoctorAlien:


Where and when is it experienced?

Those who will experience it shall, after their individual judgement once they leave this earth.

Syncan:



Hahahaha, so a mass of cement, or in some cases a collection of woods, is your pillar and ground of truth abi? Ok, what about when the word is propagated here on NL, it will not have pillar and ground of truth na. Lol.
Mister, the ground of truth is the mystical Church instituted by Christ in Matt.16:18. The church with the keys to the kingdom, of which the powers of Hades cannot overcome

You be olodo.

A pillar in that sense is spiritual. Read my post again.

Pillars are the saints. A church is the house of God right? But every house need pillar of support to stand abi?

You see say you nor sabi!

If you preach on NL it will becos you and I is the church and also the pillar. We uphold the truth as the ground where the truth is ditched but we are not the truth. Go sit down jare, ur blindness no be here ooo