Syncan:


Those who will experience it shall, after their individual judgement once they leave this earth.

So, according to you, after judgment, purgatory?

Syncan:


Those who will experience it shall, after their individual judgement once they leave this earth.

You didn't say where it will happen. Pls tell us!

This is what I have been saying since, it's not in the bible.

Those who will be in heaven will not go through judgment when it comes to salvation because we are saved already. Maybe u haven't heard that one again.

laribari:



You be olodo.

A pillar in that sense is spiritual. Read my post again.

Pillars are the saints. A church is the house of God right? But every house need pillar of support to stand abi?

You see say you nor sabi!

If you preach on NL it will becos you and I is the church and also the pillar. We uphold the truth as the ground where the truth is ditched but we are not the truth. Go sit down jare, ur blindness no be here ooo

By their fruits ye shall know them.

I do not know why you tell lies a lot, nor do I know what you gain from insults. This what you said below, I removed the rest so you can see clearly. When did you now go to spiritual pillar?

laribari:


When Paul said the ground of truth, he was making reference to a physical building, a house where people gather to worship God, a ground where people hear the word of truth.
That does not make the church the truth because Jesus is the only truth. The pillar talks about the poles standing inside the building that upholds the truth.

Syncan:


Those who will experience it shall, after their individual judgement once they leave this earth.

So, according to you, Moses will be judged to see if he deserves purgatory?

DoctorAlien:


So, according to you, Moses will be judged to see if he deserves purgatory?

Moses is one of the patriarchs, he waited for Christ to come and redeem mankind and open heaven. Jesus opened their prison gates after his death.

DoctorAlien:


So, according to you, after judgment, purgatory?

For those who will be saved, yet so as by fire. 1Cor3:15.

Syncan:


Moses is one of the patriarchs, he waited for Christ to come and redeem mankind and open heaven. Jesus opened their prison gates after his death.

So Moses was in prison and Jesus opened his prison?

Let me make a point absolutely very clear here.

2 maccabees 12:46 maccabees is a book that the jews used, that Jesus used and his apostles. Its in the greek Septuagint which is the version that the jews used then. Right there its saying that they made atonement for the dead, that they might be absolved from sin..maybe its the plain truth protestants are running away from and yet they reject a book that was included in the scriptures Jesus christ used durinh his time on earth.


That aside.. In reading the bible be very wary of context please. Now read and understand with wisdom here.
Matthew: 5. 25. Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. Jesus gave that parable at the sermon of the mount. Sermon on the mount is Jesus teaching the principles of this world.. But everything is aimed at the next life.
If you notice,Jesus taught about the concept of heaven..and then mortal sin and then hell. This is a sort of story for the next life.
Now look at that passage well,and notice before that verse i highlighted Jesus spoke about beautitudes, purely heavenly teachings.

Then he goes unto say,Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
Uttermost farthing meaning last penny...all of it.
Where do you think is this prison he talks about. If it was hell surely there was going to be no coming out.. Would there? But here he says you will indeed come out after you have payed the last penny. Context is everything. Remember this was Jesus teaching about heaven here. Take note of..deliver him to the judge and then the judge to the officer and then cast into prison.. What prison? Jewsish prison? What judge?? And you will be let out only after paying till the last penny. Remember this was Jesus clearly teaching about heaven here.


Then to further cement my point. 1 Peter: 3. 19. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; peter also talks about Jesus visit to this prison.

Ohh you still think its some jewish prison??

I hope i have made common sense to those who possess understanding.

Doctoralien
Analice107
Laribari
Syncan
Ayoku777

Syncan:


For those who will be saved, yet so as by fire. 1Cor3:15.

So, everybody will be judged to see who deserves Heaven or not, and then those who don't deserve Heaven will be sent to purgatory. Who will suffer hell?

Joey150, when and where will purgatory take place?

laribari:


You didn't say where it will happen. Pls tell us!

This is what I have been saying since, it's not in the bible.

Those who will be in heaven will not go through judgment when it comes to salvation because we are saved already . Maybe u haven't heard that one again.

If this is all you've been trying to say, then I will leave Ayoku777 or any other person who cares to take you up on that.

Na wa o

DoctorAlien:
Joey150, when and where will purgatory take place?

stop been petty here.

joey150:
stop been petty here.

Am I being petty by trying to know the truth?

laribari:


Sorry my response was late and I believe we all have a life outside NL and can't always here to quickly respond to mentions. That said!

Please why do you think a believer can loose his or her salvation? I will be glad if we can run through these warnings together and also learn from each other.

This is the most important of what Jesus came to do and Also proved Himself as king or kings.

I'm glad we will stay within scriptures because I usually do not accept teachings or philosophy outside the word of God.

Welcome on board and I'm sure I'm people are waiting to learn from us..

I will just go to the point.

I don't think, I know a believer can lose his salvation because many scriptures make that claim clear.

Here are some of the scriptures that show that salvation can be lost and that "Once saved always saved" doctrine is unscriptural.

1Timothy 4v1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times SOME SHALL DEPART FROM THE FAITH, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

This wasn't just Paul talking; this was Paul saying what the Holy Spirit told him expressly; that some will depart from the faith in the last days.

An unbeliever cannot depart from the faith because he was never in the faith. Only someone who once believed in Christ and no longer does, can be said to have departed from the faith.

And to depart from the faith is to lose the salvation. We are justified by faith (Romans 5v1) and saved by grace through faith (Eph 2v8). To depart from the faith through which we are justified and saved by grace is to lose the salvation. We can't depart from the faith and keep the salvation.

So if faith can be departed from, according to the Spirit; then salvation can be lost. Proving that, Once saved is not automatic "always saved".

Another verse.

Revelation 3v5 -He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in whote raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before His angels.

This was Jesus talking; and He wasn't talking to unbelievers. He was talking to christians.

He said that believers who overcome, He will not blot out their names from the book of life. Meaning that christians who don't overcome (or keep the faith) will have their names blotted out.

This proves two things.

One; that being a christian and a member of the body of Christ does not automatically mean one will end an overcomer. If every christian will end an overcomer, no matter what; Jesus would not be telling them; "He that overcometh.."

And two; that christians who don't overcome will have their names blotted out of the book of life, which is the same thing as losing eternal life.

Rev 20v15 -And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So if names written in the book of life can be blotted out; it means that eternal life and salvation can be lost by someone who once had it. Proving that; Once saved is not automatic "always saved".

Another verse;

Romans 11v22 -Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be CUT OFF.

This was Paul writing to the gentile believers, warning them not to be highminded and carefree about their salvation. That if they do not continue in God's goodness by staying in the faith ...they also shall be cut off.

Meaning that the scenario of being cut off from Christ is not an impossibility. A christian can let carnality and carefree-ness degenerate into unbelief and departure from the faith. And when that happens, that christian shall be cut off from Christ.

If it was impossible for a believer to be cut off from Christ, the scriptures will not warn us not to let it happen. And when one is cut off from Christ, he is no more saved. Proving again that salvation can be lost; and Once saved is not automatic "always saved".

Another verse;

2Thess 2v3 -Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Listen; this was Paul writing to believers about what will happen before the coming of Christ. And he said it will be preceeded by a falling away.

Note: the falling away is not referring to unbelievers. Unbelievers cannot fall away, because they were never standing. We stand by faith;

Romans 11v20 -...thou standest by faith.

2Cor 1v24 -...for by faith ye stand.

So only someone that once had faith in Christ and no longer does can be said to have "fallen away".

So the falling away is the great de-conversion from christianity that will happen in the end-times; of which we are already seeing a bit of it.

If a believer cannot later become an unbeliever, and if a christian can never be de-converted from faith in Christ; will the scripture talk about "falling away" as part of the signs of the end-times?

These proofs again that; "once saved always saved" is a false doctrine.

These are some of the scriptures that disprove "Once saved always saved" doctrine and show that:

1. A christian can depart from the faith

2. Names written in the book of life can be blotted out.

3. Someone once grafted into Christ can be cut off from Him.

4. A christian once standing by faith can fall away into unbelief.

If all these scenarios were impossible or can never happen; scriptures will not warn us of them.

You don't warn a fish about drowning because it can't drown. You don't warn people about things that can never happen to them. If believers are warned about departing from the faith, having their names blotted out of the book of life, being cut off from Christ and falling away, it is because it can happen to them. And the Spirit says some will depart from the faith.

This shows in no ambiguous terms and clarity that salvation can be lost. That "Once saved always saved" doctrine is false.

Shalom.

DoctorAlien:


Am I being petty by trying to know the truth?

yes it is. I cannot dignify that question with a response sadly. I think it is a cheap attempt to make me say something that you'll hurriedly go and dig the bible and bring a very unrelated verse to.


Funny enough that was the same thing the pharisees always tried to trick Jesus with. Getting him to fault ome of their laws in the scripture.

joey150:
yes it is. I cannot dignify that question with a response sadly. I think it is a cheap attempt to make me say something that you'll hurriedly go and dig the bible and bring a very unrelated verse to.


Funny enough that was the same thing the pharisees always tried to trick Jesus with. Getting him to fault ome of their laws in the scripture.

I thought you opened this thread to enlighten people about purgatory, eh?

Tell me, when and where will purgatory take place?

DoctorAlien:


So, everybody will be judged to see who deserves Heaven or not, and then those who don't deserve Heaven will be sent to purgatory. Who will suffer hell?

No.

Everybody will pass through judgement.
1. Some will go to heaven direct. 1cor3:14
2.Some will pass through purgatory before entering heaven. 1Cor3:15.
3.Some will go to hellfire. 1cor3:17.

DoctorAlien:


So, everybody will be judged to see who deserves Heaven or not, and then those who don't deserve Heaven will be sent to purgatory. Who will suffer hell?

Everybody will pass through judgement.
1. Some will go to heaven direct. 1cor3:14
2.Some will pass through purgatory before entering heaven. 1Cor3:15.
3.Some will go to hellfire. 1cor3:17

Indeed, "Every plant, which My Heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up" Matt. 15:13

Syncan:


No.

Everybody will pass through judgement.
1. Some will go to heaven direct. 1cor3:14
2.Some will pass through purgatory before entering heaven. 1Cor3:15.
3.Some will go to hellfire. 1cor3:17.

spot on! Same thing i have repaeated on and on.

Syncan:


Everybody will pass through judgement.
1. Some will go to heaven direct. 1cor3:14
2.Some will pass through purgatory before entering heaven. 1Cor3:15.
3.Some will go to hellfire. 1cor3:17

Read 1 Thess. 4:16-17. Does it imply that the righteous shall pass through judgment?

DoctorAlien:




I thought you opened this thread to enlighten people about purgatory, eh?

Tell me, when and where will purgatory take place?

you seem like you want to oppose the teaching.resist it. You do not strike me like you want to really know and learn and maybe believe.
You strike me like on opening this thread you where intent on resistin every factual opinion.

I remember asking you a question earlier.. You have since behaved like you did not see nor read it.
I wouldnt be siurprised if you asked me the address to purgatory at this point. As it is clear you have exhausted all your useful questions about it.

Anyway,i will still answer you when i see a very good question..cheers!

Syncan:



By their fruits ye shall know them.

I do not know why you tell lies a lot, nor do I know what you gain from insults. This what you said below, I removed the rest so you can see clearly. When did you now go to spiritual pillar?

You are a child and have no point.

Christians are pillars in the church upholding the truth, where did I lie?


Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


The same Ayo777 that you are quoting also said we are saved by grace. Wasn't it something u guys called a lie?


Someone asked you where is purgatory u couldn't talk.....u are the biggest liar preaching lies.


Just prove yourself and tel me where purgatory is in the bible.

Joey150, you talked about some people that "die in grace". Are they dead in Christ?

DoctorAlien:
Joey150, you talked about some people that "die in grace". Are they dead in Christ?

answer the question i asked you earlier. I am getting fatigued at this our merry go round.

They are not dead in christ,that is why theu are heaven bound.. Look i quoted you in a post..go and read and understand.
You seem to be all over asking random questions.. Same question worded differently.

I also asked you if you believed that the apostles taught traditions earlier. You since ignored it.
If you cannot answer my very simple questions after i have painstakingly taken my time to answer a ton of yours. What then is the whole essence??

ayoku777:


I don't think, I know a believer can lose his salvation because many scriptures make that claim clear.

Here are some of the scriptures that show that salvation can be lost and that "Once saved always saved" doctrine is unscriptural.

1Timothy 4v1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times SOME SHALL DEPART FROM THE FAITH, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.
.




This wasn't just Paul talking; this was Paul saying what the Holy Spirit told him expressly; that some will depart from the faith in the last days.

An unbeliever cannot depart from the faith because he was never in the faith. Only someone who once believed in Christ and no longer does, can be said to have departed from the faith.

And to depart from the faith is to lose the salvation. We are justified by faith (Romans 5v1) and saved by grace through faith (Eph 2v8). To depart from the faith through which we are justified and saved by grace is to lose the salvation. We can't depart from the faith and keep the salvation.

So if faith can be departed from, according to the Spirit; then salvation can be lost. Proving that, Once saved is not automatic "always saved".

Another verse.

Revelation 3v5 -He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in whote raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before His angels.

This was Jesus talking; and He wasn't talking to unbelievers. He was talking to christians.

He said that believers who overcome, He will not blot out their names from the book of life. Meaning that christians who don't overcome (or keep the faith) will have their names blotted out.

This proves two things.

One; that being a christian and a member of the body of Christ does not automatically mean one will end an overcomer. If every christian will end an overcomer, no matter what; Jesus would not be telling them; "He that overcometh.."

And two; that christians who don't overcome will have their names blotted out of the book of life, which is the same thing as losing eternal life.

Rev 20v15 -And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So if names written in the book of life can be blotted out; it means that eternal life and salvation can be lost by someone who once had it. Proving that; Once saved is not automatic "always saved".

Another verse;

Romans 11v22 -Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be CUT OFF.

This was Paul writing to the gentile believers, warning them not to be highminded and carefree about their salvation. That if they do not continue in God's goodness by staying in the faith ...they also shall be cut off.

Meaning that the scenario of being cut off from Christ is not an impossibility. A christian can let carnality and carefree-ness degenerate into unbelief and departure from the faith. And when that happens, that christian shall be cut off from Christ.

If it was impossible for a believer to be cut off from Christ, the scriptures will not warn us not to let it happen. And when one is cut off from Christ, he is no more saved. Proving again that salvation can be lost; and Once saved is not automatic "always saved".

Another verse;

2Thess 2v3 -Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Listen; this was Paul writing to believers about what will happen before the coming of Christ. And he said it will be preceeded by a falling away.

Note: the falling away is not referring to unbelievers. Unbelievers cannot fall away, because they were never standing. We stand by faith;

Romans 11v20 -...thou standest by faith.

2Cor 1v24 -...for by faith ye stand.

So only someone that once had faith in Christ and no longer does can be said to have "fallen away".

So the falling away is the great de-conversion from christianity that will happen in the end-times; of which we are already seeing a bit of it.

If a believer cannot later become an unbeliever, and if a christian can never be de-converted from faith in Christ; will the scripture talk about "falling away" as part of the signs of the end-times?

These proofs again that; "once saved always saved" is a false doctrine.

These are some of the scriptures that disprove "Once saved always saved" doctrine and show that:

1. A christian can depart from the faith

2. Names written in the book of life can be blotted out.

3. Someone once grafted into Christ can be cut off from Him.

4. A christian once standing by faith can fall away into unbelief.

If all these scenarios were impossible or can never happen; scriptures will not warn us of them.

You don't warn a fish about drowning because it can't drown. You don't warn people about things that can never happen to them. If believers are warned about departing from the faith, having their names blotted out of the book of life, being cut off from Christ and falling away, it is because it can happen to them. And the Spirit says some will depart from the faith.

This shows in no ambiguous terms and clarity that salvation can be lost. That "Once saved always saved" doctrine is false.

Shalom.

Finally, someone that knows the scriptures but before we go further please I need you your view on the below.


1. Purgatory

2. Honouring Mary

3. Praying to Saints.




This wasn't just Paul talking; this was Paul saying what the Holy Spirit told him expressly; that some will depart from the faith in the last days.

An unbeliever cannot depart from the faith because he was never in the faith. Only someone who once believed in Christ and no longer does, can be said to have departed from the faith.

And to depart from the faith is to lose the salvation. We are justified by faith (Romans 5v1) and saved by grace through faith (Eph 2v8). To depart from the faith through which we are justified and saved by grace is to lose the salvation. We can't depart from the faith and keep the salvation.

So if faith can be departed from, according to the Spirit; then salvation can be lost. Proving that, Once saved is not automatic "always saved".

Another verse.

Revelation 3v5 -He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in whote raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before His angels.

This was Jesus talking; and He wasn't talking to unbelievers. He was talking to christians.

He said that believers who overcome, He will not blot out their names from the book of life. Meaning that christians who don't overcome (or keep the faith) will have their names blotted out.

This proves two things.

One; that being a christian and a member of the body of Christ does not automatically mean one will end an overcomer. If every christian will end an overcomer, no matter what; Jesus would not be telling them; "He that overcometh.."

And two; that christians who don't overcome will have their names blotted out of the book of life, which is the same thing as losing eternal life.

Rev 20v15 -And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So if names written in the book of life can be blotted out; it means that eternal life and salvation can be lost by someone who once had it. Proving that; Once saved is not automatic "always saved".

Another verse;

Romans 11v22 -Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be CUT OFF.

This was Paul writing to the gentile believers, warning them not to be highminded and carefree about their salvation. That if they do not continue in God's goodness by staying in the faith ...they also shall be cut off.

Meaning that the scenario of being cut off from Christ is not an impossibility. A christian can let carnality and carefree-ness degenerate into unbelief and departure from the faith. And when that happens, that christian shall be cut off from Christ.

If it was impossible for a believer to be cut off from Christ, the scriptures will not warn us not to let it happen. And when one is cut off from Christ, he is no more saved. Proving again that salvation can be lost; and Once saved is not automatic "always saved".

Another verse;

2Thess 2v3 -Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Listen; this was Paul writing to believers about what will happen before the coming of Christ. And he said it will be preceeded by a falling away.

Note: the falling away is not referring to unbelievers. Unbelievers cannot fall away, because they were never standing. We stand by faith;

Romans 11v20 -...thou standest by faith.

2Cor 1v24 -...for by faith ye stand.

So only someone that once had faith in Christ and no longer does can be said to have "fallen away".

So the falling away is the great de-conversion from christianity that will happen in the end-times; of which we are already seeing a bit of it.

If a believer cannot later become an unbeliever, and if a christian can never be de-converted from faith in Christ; will the scripture talk about "falling away" as part of the signs of the end-times?

These proofs again that; "once saved always saved" is a false doctrine.

These are some of the scriptures that disprove "Once saved always saved" doctrine and show that:

1. A christian can depart from the faith

2. Names written in the book of life can be blotted out.

3. Someone once grafted into Christ can be cut off from Him.

4. A christian once standing by faith can fall away into unbelief.

If all these scenarios were impossible or can never happen; scriptures will not warn us of them.

You don't warn a fish about drowning because it can't drown. You don't warn people about things that can never happen to them. If believers are warned about departing from the faith, having their names blotted out of the book of life, being cut off from Christ and falling away, it is because it can happen to them. And the Spirit says some will depart from the faith.

This shows in no ambiguous terms and clarity that salvation can be lost. That "Once saved always saved" doctrine is false.

Shalom.[/quote]


Finally, someone that understand scriptures and that we can share properly.

Howver, before I go on with that because I will show u stuff too and explain but first I want ur view on the following.


1. Purgatory

2. Praying through Mary when we need something from Jesus

Syncan:


Everybody will pass through judgement.
1. Some will go to heaven direct. 1cor3:14
2.Some will pass through purgatory before entering heaven. 1Cor3:15.
3.Some will go to hellfire. 1cor3:17

If everybody will pass through judgment, how come judgment was given unto the saints (Dan. 7:22)?

If everybody will go through judgment, how come the saints will judge the world and angels? (1 Cor. 6:2-3)

[quote author=laribari post=45629316][/quote] hahah now he agrees he has been yarning dust.

I told you from minute 1 you came here that you were my comic relief.

joey150:
answer the question i asked you earlier. I am getting fatigued at this our merry go round.

They are not dead in christ,that is why theu are heaven bound.. Look i quoted you in a post..go and read and understand.
You seem to be all over asking random questions.. Same question worded differently.

I also asked you if you believed that the apostles taught traditions earlier. You since ignored it.
If you cannot answer my very simple questions after i have painstakingly taken my time to answer a ton of yours. What then is the whole essence??

But I opened the thread to learn. Didn't I?

DoctorAlien:


But I opened the thread to learn. Didn't I?

but you clearly are not. If you did, you would answer simple questions and admit to or deny some facts so i know where your stand is.

You just go picking up verses like the whole bible should be tied to purgatory. I quoted you in one. You couldnt find a fault there. You have since ignored it and moved on to picking up random verses...

Dont you see i get what you are doing. Am seriously enjoying your merry go round. But dont deceive yourself that you came here to learn...
The intent is very clear. As always.. You are welcomed bro.

joey150:
Let me make a point absolutely very clear here.

2 maccabees 12:46 maccabees is a book that the jews used, that Jesus used and his apostles. Its in the greek Septuagint which is the version that the jews used then. Right there its saying that they made atonement for the dead, that they might be absolved from sin..maybe its the plain truth protestants are running away from and yet they reject a book that was included in the scriptures Jesus christ used durinh his time on earth.


That aside.. In reading the bible be very wary of context please. Now read and understand with wisdom here.
Matthew: 5. 25. Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. Jesus gave that parable at the sermon of the mount. Sermon on the mount is Jesus teaching the principles of this world.. But everything is aimed at the next life.
If you notice,Jesus taught about the concept of heaven..and then mortal sin and then hell. This is a sort of story for the next life.
Now look at that passage well,and notice before that verse i highlighted Jesus spoke about beautitudes, purely heavenly teachings.

Then he goes unto say,Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
Uttermost farthing meaning last penny...all of it.
Where do you think is this prison he talks about. If it was hell surely there was going to be no coming out.. Would there? But here he says you will indeed come out after you have payed the last penny. Context is everything. Remember this was Jesus teaching about heaven here. Take note of..deliver him to the judge and then the judge to the officer and then cast into prison.. What prison? Jewsish prison? What judge?? And you will be let out only after paying till the last penny. Remember this was Jesus clearly teaching about heaven here.


Then to further cement my point. 1 Peter: 3. 19. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; peter also talks about Jesus visit to this prison.

Ohh you still think its some jewish prison??

I hope i have made common sense to those who possess understanding.

Doctoralien
Analice107
Laribari
Syncan
Ayoku777

How.are you sure Christ and his apostles read the Maccabees? I tried reading the Maccabees, i couldn't make any head or tail out of it. Have you read the Book of Mormons? That's how i see the Maccabees. There's no connection between the Bible we read and these books.
The book of Judith was another matter. Reading the Book of Judith, i found some cities mentioned therein and their rulers, I googled the cities, google search led me back to the Book of Judith. They never existed, but only in the Book of Judith. The Book of Esther and the Jews' encounter in sushan was so different from the Esther of the Bible, the same with Daniel. Tobit appears diabolical to an extent. Those books are fit to be put together as a book, but outside the Bible.