Religion and Politics are vital tools in the control of the human society, they provide almost identical means of ensuring order and distraction in order for the society to thrive.

In a society of humans with diverse behaviourial tendencies there is a very great need to ensure order and comformity to societal guidelines and that is the sole aim of Both religion and Politics - these are necessary tools in this regard.

Religion is basically politics only that this time the authority [police, judge and jury] is divine and the punishment always posthumous.

When you talk about the very concept of Afterlife, posthumous judgement coupled with a reward or punishment scheme for the humans ancient religions like the Egyptian Religions comes to mind.

It is not only one of the oldest civilizations, several concepts and ideas both in modern art, theology, politics and science are directly influenced by it.

In the Egyptian Ma'at ; Dead souls are escorted by Anubis through the Duat to a place of final Judgement where the soul is weighed against the Ma'at, where it is expected that a Just soul deserving of eternal life should be lighter than the Ma'at.

This has always being the motif, the method, the purpose, the idea behind the concept of Judgement in very many great religions around the world, Posthumous judgement, reward and punishment schemes are used to coerce the people into living ethical lives necessary for a healthy society.

I now dabble into the wile of Abrahamism, while most religions, theologies and cultures utilize this as a tool to ensure ethical behaviours Abrahamism goes a step further, an outright sinister project that is as it Makes belief in itself the criteria for judgement not the ethical lives of the subjects.

In a lustful quest for world domination threat and fear has been a vital tool of Abrahamism, psychological terrorism.

You must believe it, you must accept it and never question it or you will not get eternal life

Nothing castigates the man-made nature of these ideas than this selfish sinister project to coerce minds into religious submissions.

Judgement in Abrahamism became more than just a test of a moral/ethical life but rather a divine project to garner belief, a divine wrath seeking undiluted retribution and piety as dictated by that particular religion.

Both the Quran and Bible [Fairly New Testament] lay explicitly how a certain type of belief is necessary for Afterlife or blissful reward of paradise.

For the Quran you must believe in One God, his messangers, his holy book and then good deeds.

Take away this belief no matter how ethical or good you must have lived, it is utterly useless and irrelevant to God, it's first requirement is "Believe in me first or you don't get it"

For the New Testament it is Faith and belief in Jesus as your lord and saviour, this faith alone is all that is needed in most recent Pentecostal Christianity, if you lack this faith and belief in Jesus, forget how ethical or moral you might have been, you are already condemned even before Judgement.

in older orthodox Christianity like Catholicism this criteria is a bit watered down with the book of James

"Faith without Good works is dead in itself"

There are also very many spelled out explicit awaiting cruel punishments for the sole act of Unbelief - which in essence is not a hurtful action either to oneself or to the society but somehow God is so feeble, insecure and vulnerable to be bothered by such act.

It seems bizarre that a divine ever watching authority cares more of whether and how your belief lies before you are considered worthy of a just judgement.

This very sinister idea reveals in Abrahamism an insatiable lust for world dominance and subjugation, there is a great need to demand belief, for blind faith and authourity conformity that these values are roped around the concept of Posthumous judgement which is strangely also regarded to be Just.

-There is nothing Just in certain Belief or practises being the criteria for a Trial - the trial in essence becomes unfair as it is not based on a fair basis.

-Nothing is Just or fair in an infinite punishment for a finite crime - that in itself is a mockery of Justice.

These doctrines create problems to which they offer themselves to be the only means to salvation from these problems.

To which i contend is not salvation but rather abuse and cheap blackmail.

I may care less about your religion, know less about it but as long as it is based on a sinister idea of posing a God who require you believe it first or it punishes you no matter how noble or ethical you must have been - it reveals a fundamental fraud and collosal lie and unjust criteria to which anyone basically humane cannot agree with.

The matter of the voluntary enrollment into a mandatory friendship pact with an omnipotent AND omniscient entity.

What I never managed to understand was the saga of recurrent forgiveness following one's enrollment into that mandatory friendship pact. It's like receiving the green light to commit every possible atrocity against other humans.

The model is very effective for keeping believers in check. Indoctrination can take you a long way in blind faith but doubt may set in due to contrary evidence.

This is where fear comes in.

The irrational fear of eternal punishment is a major stumbling against critical thinking. It stayed at the back of my mind until I was fully assured that the Abrahamic definition of god was totally false. So young children or vulnerable adults undergo the form of psychological abuse in order to keep them in line.

That is why we see people telling atheists online that they are going to Hell. It is truly the worst thing that they can say, since they actually believe it.

Weah96:
The matter of the voluntary enrollment into a mandatory friendship pact with an omnipotent AND omniscient entity.

What I never managed to understand was the saga of recurrent forgiveness following one's enrollment into that mandatory friendship pact. It's like receiving the green light to commit every possible atrocity against other humans.

What originally was an idea to better the world became a tool to demean the world. . . Who ever offers someone salvation in exchange that you "believe he/she is offering you salvation" is a monumental liar.

CoolUsername:
The model is very effective for keeping believers in check. Indoctrination can take you a long way in blind faith but doubt may set in due to contrary evidence.

This is where fear comes in.

The irrational fear of eternal punishment is a major stumbling against critical thinking. It stayed at the back of my mind until I was fully assured that the Abrahamic definition of god was totally false. So young children or vulnerable adults undergo the form of psychological abuse in order to keep them in line.

That is why we see people telling atheists online that they are going to Hell. It is truly the worst thing that they can say, since they actually believe it.

If you want the average human out there to believe something, rope it around their ignorance [As mystery], around their fear [as a threat] or around their hope [as a promise]..

The fundamental basis of every great lie

Johnydon22, permission to share this on my Facebook wall sir?

Blaqsmith:
Johnydon22, permission to share this on my Facebook wall sir?

By all means do

johnydon22:


What originally was an idea to better the world became a tool to demean the world. . . Who ever offers someone salvation in exchange that you "believe he/she is offering you salvation" is a monumental liar.

How has Christianity 'demeaned' the world?

TomHagen:
How has Christianity 'demeaned' the world?

It teaches a world broken and hopeless due for destruction, it teaches escape from the world and not an attempt to heal it.

It makes the earth look incredibly outshown in the glamour of a golden blissful unending life of fantasy after you are dead

It teaches humans that there are originally broken, flawed, sinful and unworthy even from birth therefore needs external saving.

Demeans the very essence humanity to a pitiful state of groveling at the feet of the divine, wrathful deities seeking undiluted piety and blind faith.

Recommends blind faith over the need to study and find things out

And a thousand and one other ways - but just chew on these handful

johnydon22:


It teaches a world broken and hopeless due for destruction, it teaches escape from the world and not an attempt to heal it.

It makes the earth look incredibly outshown in the glamour of a golden blissful ending life of fantasy after you are dead

It teaches humans that there are originally broken, flawed, sinful and unworthy even from birth therefore needs external saving.

Demeans the very essence humanity to a pitiful state of groveling at the feet of the divine, wrathful deities seeking undiluted piety and blind faith.

Recommends blind faith over the need to study and find things out

And a thousand and one other ways - but just chew on these handful

Since when did teaching bitter truths amount to 'demeaning' the world? Would you prefer sweet lies?

TomHagen:
Since when did teaching bitter truths amount to 'demeaning' the world? Would you prefer sweet lies?

I'm quite happy about the fact that you didn't try to deny these clear cut reasons or try to wriggle around them.

Bitter truths or monumental lies unsupported by even an iota of evidence..

It is okay to have a belief unsupported by evidence but once you bring out this belief and teach them to the public as truth knowing fully well it is unsupported by evidence - You are both a liar and a fraud.

It is not a bitter truth, it's an absurd lie. . . .

When someone or a book knows so well what happens to you when you die, what the creator of the universe is like or the mind of God(s) - it's an effective con-job, an acidic lie that targets the most gullible of minds to garner profits.

I'd prefer objective truths not fantasies based on blind belief sir.

johnydon22:

I'm quite happy about the fact that you didn't try to deny these clear cut reasons or try to wriggle around them.

Bitter truths or monumental lies unsupported by even an iota of evidence..

It is okay to have a belief unsupported by evidence but once you bring out this belief and teach them to the public as truth knowing fully well it is unsupported by evidence - You are both a liar and a fraud.

It is not a bitter truth, it's an absurd lie. . . .

When someone or a book knows so well what happens to you when you die, what the creator of the universe is like or the mind of God(s) - it's an effective con-job, an acidic lie that targets the most gullible of minds to garner profits.

I'd prefer objective truths not fantasies based on blind belief sir.

But there is evidence, evidence in the lives of those who adhere to these truths, is it anyone's fault that you have decided to close your eyes to the evidence?

TomHagen:
But there is evidence, evidence in the lives of those who adhere to these truths, is it anyone's fault that you have decided to close your eyes to the evidence?

Evidences or basically you trying to pass your personal gut feelings [emotions] as evidences? - it amazes me how baseless these beliefs are that there cannot boast of a tangible evidence to substantiate their beliefs.

Objective truths are established by objective evidences which are falsifiable, verifiable and can be demonstrated.

However the practise of incessant repetitions and stoic conviction in no way establishes an idea as truth.

So it's nobody's fault that you apply the dishonesty of faith in your establishment of a fraudulent subjective truth.

Your beliefs are rather based on blind faith sir.

johnydon22:


Evidences or basically you trying to pass your personal gut feelings [emotions] as evidences? - it amazes me how baseless these beliefs are that there cannot boast of a tangible evidence to substantiate their beliefs.

Objective truths are established by objective evidences which are falsifiable, verifiable and can be demonstrated.

However the practise of incessant repetitions and stoic conviction in no way establishes an idea as truth.

So it's nobody's fault that you apply the dishonesty of faith in your establishment of a fraudulent subjective truth.

Your beliefs are rather based on blind faith sir.

What are the limits of objective evidence? If you had a malaria-induced hallucination in which you were being chased by dragons and I asked you to prove that you had such a hallucination ? How would you go about it since according to you every truth has to pass the tests of 'verifiability, falsifiabiliy and demonstrability'. What ''tangible evidence'' would you provide to substantiate your claim?

Religion thrived and has continued to thrive due to limitations of the human intellect.

This perceived gap in understanding of man's world introduced us to various concepts of a supernatural force or control, which started from animism and evolved slowly to polytheism and monotheism.

This gap fueled belief.

And as similar to various cultures, abrahanism promises a blistfull afterlife to adrehents who believe or eternal torment for unbelievers/ or sinners.

The fear posed by these religions. had more of a political undertone to ensure conformity to rules and laws while hope , as a tyicall human desire( evident in most cultures) to live in a world much better than the present one when we die.

Abrahanism convienietly forces this BELIEF as the only means to to a heaven or a hell, which as you've righly pointed out is nothing short of a cheap blackmail to assure continuity and dismay unbelief

TomHagen:
What are the limits of objective evidence? If you had a malaria-induced hallucination in which you were being chased by dragons and I asked you to prove that you had such a hallucination ? How would you go about it since according to you every truth has to pass the tests of 'verifiability, falsifiabiliy and demonstrability'. What ''tangible evidence'' would you provide to substantiate your claim?

Now you are getting the point - as you said, it's a hallucination [A hallucination is a neurological projection therefore subjective].

The idiotic part of it is the part i claim the dragon chasing me is real...

Now you get it?

Seems very fitting that you likened your beliefs to Malaria induced hallucination - the best part is you did it yourself.

johnydon22:


Now you are getting the point - as you said, it's a hallucination [A hallucination is a neurological projection therefore subjective].

The idiotic part of it is the part i claim the dragon chasing me is real...

Now you get it?

Seems very fitting that you likened your beliefs to Malaria induced hallucination - the best part is you did it yourself.

Nice try but you miss the point. If someone disputes the FACT that the hallucination occured, would it be provable? Does the fact that you are unable to prove it to the observer's satisfaction mean that it did not occur?

TomHagen:
Nice try but you miss the point. If someone disputes the FACT that the hallucination occured, would it be provable? Does the fact that you are unable to prove it to the observer's satisfaction mean that it did not occur?

Means for the fact that your claim is unverifiable in the objective sense, nobody is obligated to believe it.

johnydon22:


Means for the fact that your claim is unverifiable in the objective sense, nobody is obligated to believe it.

Does this mean it is untrue?

TomHagen:
Does this mean it is untrue?

As a neurological projection is did happen.. neither does it change the fact that its hallucinatory, imaginary and unreal.. so?

johnydon22:


As a neurological projection is did happen.. so?

So an experience occurred that was triggered by something else (it's personal as only the ''experiencer'' can say exactly what he experienced). This is akin to what Christians tell you. By faith you believe, accept and confess Jesus (the trigger) and the experience occurs (quite unique for every individual) and then the manifestations (still unique) for each individual begins to happen. How hard is this to understand?

johnydon22:


As a neurological projection is did happen.. neither does it change the fact that its hallucinatory, imaginary and unreal.. so?

You are always modifying your posts. It isn't unreal like non-existent. It is simply transcendent.

TomHagen:
So an experience occurred that was triggered by something else (it's personal as only the ''experiencer'' can say exactly what he experienced). This is akin to what Christians tell you. By faith you believe, accept and confess Jesus (the trigger) and the experience occurs (quite unique for every individual) and then the manifestations (still unique) for each individual begins to happen. How hard is this to understand?

LOL i knew this was were it was going to land - A personal experience is subjective to the personal observer therefore not an objective truth.

Personal experiences are not only unreliable but cannot be regarded as objective truth.

So just as a hallucination, what a Christian claims is no more realer than a hallucination, it is totally true one can hallucinate but claiming the contents of your hallucination to be real is not only absurd but a gigantic lie.

And that is exactly what you lot do, believe by Faith that you hallucinations are real and not imaginary...

I can dream of flying, it is does not mean i can fly... To claim you can fly due to a dream is not only nonsensical but insane...

So since you recognize your belief as a personal experience no realer than a hallucination, to teach them to the public as objective truth to be accepted on the premise of blind faith makes you both a liar and a fraud in the objective sense...

this shouldn't be hard to get.

TomHagen:
You are always modifying your posts. It isn't unreal like non-existent. It is simply transcendent.

Doesn't change it's status as an unreal value...

johnydon22:


LOL i knew this was were it was going to land - A personal experience is subjective to the personal observer therefore not an objective truth.

Personal experiences are not only unreliable but cannot be regarded as objective truth.

So just as a hallucination, what a Christian claims is no more realer than a hallucination, it is totally true one can hallucinate but claiming the contents of your hallucination to be real is not only absurd but a gigantic lie.

And that is exactly what you lot do, believe by Faith that you hallucinations are real and not imaginary.

Are your dreams not subjective?

TomHagen:
Are your dreams not subjective?

Exactly [neurological projections are subjective] and so this subjective projection do not apply to others, once i tell everyone a diamond pot exists in neptune because i saw it in my dream, it's nothing short of madness.

So for the simple fact that you are trying to lay out subjectice fantasies [not even yours but some other person's you read in a book] as objective truth and also teach them to the public as truth not only makes you fraudulent but a liar.

Anyone that believe his/her hallucination to be real, we regard to be insane, but when groups of person believe on some other person's hallucinations to be real - there are regarded as religious.

TomHagen:
Are your dreams not subjective?

Now you are Shifting to Dream? and by the way are Dream real life occurrence

johnydon22:


Exactly [neurological projections are subjective] and so this subjective projection do not apply to others, once i tell everyone a diamond pot exists in neptune because i saw it in my dream, it's nothing short of madness.

So for the simple fact that you are trying to lay out subjectice fantasies [not even yours but some other person's you read in a book] as objective truth and also teach them to the public as truth not only makes you fraudulent but a liar.

Anyone that believe his/her hallucination to be real, we regard to be insane, but when groups of person believe on some other person's hallucinations to be real - there are regarded as religious.

Your dreams are unreal in the physical sense, but are they untrue?

TomHagen:
Your dreams are unreal in the physical sense, but are they untrue?

The bolded is the very point of the saga - The lie is when i claim my dreams are real and base my view of reality on it.

Welcome back to reality, you can stop chasing and believing subjective dreams now - there are no realer than me imagining my girl friend as Elizabeth II

johnydon22:


The bolded is the very point of the saga - The lie is when i claim my dreams are real and base my view of reality on it.

Welcome back to reality, you can stop chasing and believing subjective dreams now - there are no realer than me imagining my girl friend as Elizabeth II

When those subjective experiences begin to generate physical effects like healing the sick instantly and changing lives for good, would it still be sensible to regard them as mere subjective experiences? Or would it just be easier to deny them?

Deicide:

Now you are Shifting to Dream? and by the way are Dream real life occurrence

The point has flown over your head. Why do I get the feeling that you are the same person as EyehateGod?

TomHagen:
The point has flown over your head. Why do I get the feeling that you are the same person as EyehateGod?

Yes i am