dopeJemi:


this is a big lie from the pit of hell

Diademk07:


Tuanzebe is a defender, not a CDM.

If we could criticise Fellaini of lacking the technical ability to contribute in the control of the midfield, I don't see why Tuazebe should be any better. Some people often talk about how Caseimiro helped to complete Madrid's midfield but he's got two pass masters in the likes of Kroos and Modric in front of him. In fact, Madrid would even look much more better if they could get a more technical CDM who can help to build up the play from the back without the need of Kroos constantly dropping too deep to get on the ball. That was exactly what Bastian offered Kroos at the worldcup and he looked far better than he ever did at Madrid although he has been good for Madrid but not on the worldclass level he looked at the worldcup.

On the other hand, we have no playmaker such as Kroos and Modric who can dictate the play and help us to control the midfield yet we want to add a typical defender as our CDM? What are we becoming?

Personally, I would love to see Tuanzebe grow as the centre back he is because he's done nothing to impress me as a CDM. Yes, he's got quick feet but he has got neither the passing range, ability to switch play nor the ability to pass through the line. He also offer little in our build-up play just like Herrera.

That's why I would prefer that Donny Van de Beek lad. He's the only one I can think of, apart from Motta and De rossi but the latter are ageing already. Another is Oriol Romeu, he doesn't have the passing range and he is not playmaker like those aforementioned 3 players (Beek, Motta, De Rossi) but he's got the composure in the midfield and the ability to pass through the lines. As for Fabinho, I think the RB position is still likely his best position because he isn't composed enough to play in the midfield. I saw him against Juve and City and he didn't impress me as a holding midfielder but he's got the creativity and marauding runs to operate as a fullback.

Diademk07:


Lmao.

You mean by having Pogba constantly dropping deep beside him to have the ball is what constitute build up play in your opinion?

The real fact is Herrera has been more or less like Caseimiro and Casemiro is still the better player out of the two. You can bury your head in the sand all day, that doesn't change the truth!

dopeJemi:


Leicester
Southampton(final)
Bournemouth
Watford.

from the back of my head, these are games where his build up play led to goals

your definition of build up play does not concern me

chrisley024:
Another Herrera argument Abeg!

Diademk07:


Lmao! Contributing to goals is now build up play? Like Caseimiro doesn't do that? Abegi!

You probably didn't watch Carrick play..

chrisley024:
CMF, RWF and CF. I might suggest Mahrez for the RW while I don't even know for the CM and CF positions.

dopeJemi:


"these are games where his build up play led to goals"

comprehension problem?

in your definition, does build up play involve passing the ball sideways and backwards?

if I may ask, what or where are you building up play to? the stance or the dressing room?

Diademk07:


Keeping the ball flowing from the back to the midfield as quick as possible (zippy zappy). Not having your no 8 to constantly drop deep before your DM can make a decision because there's aways the option of switching the play to the wings if the passing lines through the middle are blocked..

So, what are you saying?

dopeJemi:


Herrera broke up play, passed to mata, mata passed to mkhitaryan, mkhitaryan passed to martial, martial passed to mata, mata scored and flung his boot to the sky

who started the build up play?

in those games I mentioned, I can't remember our number 8 dropping deep to collect any pass from our DM in the build up to the goals scored,

are you saying if pogba is the closest man Herrera can build up play with he should rather pass the ball to de bruyne at the etihad stadium because he doesn't want you to think he passes to only pogba

Diademk07:


The point is I hardly see Herrera pass through the lines except some few times he sees our forward running through the opposition defence like Mkhitaaryan goal vs Spurs and that still aint buildup play. He doesn't have the ability to even switch play.

One thing that even annoys me more is when he would take the ball and runs forward only to make his customary sideway pass. I would be like, why didn't he just make his signatory sideway pass as quickly as possible instead of going on a useless run and wasting our chance to counter.

If you watch Carrick's game enough, you would know there is a vast difference between how both play.

Diademk07:


That's your problem, not mine!

chrisley024:
Lol. How can Herrera's issue be my problem when he's making it in his football career while you're here hating and dropping your epistles.

A player of no good according to you with 5 MotM performances and you've never seen any good of his performance in any game. You'd rather ignore it or claim the opponent's midfield was poor. Even when our attack were missing chances you were here downgrading Herrera and praising Kante as if Kante is a CF.

Diademk07:


Keeping the ball flowing from the back to the midfield as quick as possible (zippy zappy). Not having your no 8 to constantly drop deep before your DM can make a decision because there's aways the option of switching the play to the wings if the passing lines through the middle are blocked..

So, what are you saying?

dopeJemi:


I honestly don't think you understood my post

I would like to think that man management is essential to a club's success and I hope we won't have to sing "the one that got away" tune 2years from now

dopeJemi:


this is why I thought you didn't understand my post

I didn't say all our players shouldn't be in excellent form, i said, assuming all three are in excellent form, what happens to Rojo? the coach's ability to make all three happy will be crucial at this stage, hence the 3-5-2 I suggested which doesn't seem like a bad formation to try out considering the fact that we are still after belotti

that has been my point

AdisaOwala:

Was Makelele an excellent DM in your opinion??

Diademk07:


Tuanzebe is a defender, not a CDM.

If we could criticise Fellaini of lacking the technical ability to contribute in the control of the midfield, I don't see why Tuazebe should be any better. Some people often talk about how Caseimiro helped to complete Madrid's midfield but he's got two pass masters in the likes of Kroos and Modric in front of him. In fact, Madrid would even look much more better if they could get a more technical CDM who can help to build up the play from the back without the need of Kroos constantly dropping too deep to get on the ball. That was exactly what Bastian offered Kroos at the worldcup and he looked far better than he ever did at Madrid although he has been good for Madrid but not on the worldclass level he looked at the worldcup.

On the other hand, we have no playmaker such as Kroos and Modric who can dictate the play and help us to control the midfield yet we want to add a typical defender as our CDM? What are we becoming?

Personally, I would love to see Tuanzebe grow as the centre back he is because he's done nothing to impress me as a CDM. Yes, he's got quick feet but he has got neither the passing range, ability to switch play nor the ability to pass through the line. He also offer little in our build-up play just like Herrera.

That's why I would prefer that Donny Van de Beek lad. He's the only one I can think of, apart from Motta and De rossi but the latter are ageing already. Another is Oriol Romeu, he doesn't have the passing range and he is not playmaker like those aforementioned 3 players (Beek, Motta, De Rossi) but he's got the composure in the midfield and the ability to pass through the lines. As for Fabinho, I think the RB position is still likely his best position because he isn't composed enough to play in the midfield. I saw him against Juve and City and he didn't impress me as a holding midfielder but he's got the creativity and marauding runs to operate as a fullback.

There's also Badelj but the only weakness is his defensive play which is still a major suspect in his game.

AdisaOwala:


Was Makelele an excellent DM in your opinion??

Diademk07:


Tell me what midfield did Herrera improve? Pogba came and improved our midfield even though he can't control the midfield for shite but his creativity was a refreshment. Kante came and improved their midfield by adding the intensity/energy needed in Chelsea sluggish midfield of Matic and Fabregas but what has Herrera done? Still look lost without Pogba babysitting him. Abeg.

patrickmuf:
Not all DM's must have the passing range of Carrick or have the eye for cut through passes or be generally sleek on the eye, ability to screen the defense while being averagely good in possession is very okay for a DM, on the one hand you'll always have the Carrick's, Busi, Motta and on the other hand, there's Casemiro, Mascherano in his Liverpool days, Wanyama etc...It's down to a coaches preference.

Diademk07:


While Liverpool had Macherano, they also had Alonso and Gerard (although he wasn't great in the central midfield but he gave them some form of control in the attacking third), Spurs have Eriksen who's more like a little David Silva in the midfield although he's not as good)

But in our case, we have no playmaakers!

chrisley024:
It's far more than a midfielder or 2-man MF. Chelsea front 3 can keep the ball and dribble better than ours not to mention the energetic input of the wingbacks. Conte used a system that favored the players he has. Wasn't Kante there at the beginning of the season when they were struggling and Ozil was turning him like amala at the Emirates?

patrickmuf:
Pogba is a winger right? Herrera is a striker abi? Get those lads playing with a proper DM and watch them flourish...

codedguy1:
It seems in our midfield, pogba never passes to Herrera.!

And if pogba and Herrera are in our midfield, is it not just logical that there would be passes between them during the cause of the game.when mourinho plays Herrera as a DM and pogba as a CMF, pogba would most likely be Herrera's major outlet when he gets the ball or am I missing something here?

And saying that its only when pogba is on the field that makes Herrera look good is rather bellitling the contributions of the other players around him. I will not even mention Herrera's contributions because that the bone of contention.

@ Diademk07 you need to cut Herrera some slack.

Diademk07:


No one is saying Herrera shouldn't pass to Pogba. But it shouldn't be about Pogba dropping deep with him to collect the ball. He should be able to advance the play by making a vertical pass, even if it's just a short one.

patrickmuf:
Busi - Xavi - Inieta triumvirate exchanged more passes than pleasantries but for you, Herrera shouldn't pass the ball to Pogba as much as he does...You just can't see anything good in Herrera's game, it's just how it is...Pointless engaging in this discuss