MikeCZA:
The first kinetic strike of the first gulf war was by dedicated attack helicopters.

The effectiveness of such designs can't be judged. Regardless of rotors we are going to see me more designs still following the American-first dedicated attack helicopter without troop carrying capacity.

From China, India, South Africa and others in Europe attack helicopter designs grow from the Cobra attack helicopter branch. The Mi-24 one is dead only upgrades will be available.


Countries with well funded militaries and operating the Mi-24 have or are replacing it with attack choppers from the Cobra branch.

The rubbi...sh here is cause Nigeria flies the type. If your air force chaps flew some other design you'd still say it's of better design regardless of what well funded militaries with better procurement and testing facilities acquire.

Oh! I didn't know. Please tell us what the other dedicated attack helicopters have done that the mi35/mi24 haven't achieved?

Writing long grammar won't prove you right.

The funny thing is you didn't consider why you needed 2-3 Rooivalk to escort UN food. A single MI35m would have done that with ease.

iblawi:
Most successful Rooivalk mission in history.

Cameramen Airforce

And the most sophisticated Super Hind on the continent is a South African upgrade.

iblawi:


Oh! I didn't know. Please tell us what the other dedicated attack helicopters have done that the mi35/mi24 haven't achieved?

Writing long grammar won't prove you right.

The funny thing is you didn't consider why you needed 2-3 Rooivalk to escort UN food. A single MI35m would have done that with ease.

That's 100% factual.

I'm literally crying because of laughter!

iblawi:


Oh! I didn't know. Please tell us what the other dedicated attack helicopters have done that the mi35/mi24 haven't achieved?

Writing long grammar won't prove you right.

The funny thing is you didn't consider why you needed 2-3 Rooivalk to escort UN food. A single MI35m would have done that with ease.

Did you know that there were Hinds in east DRC before the Rooivalk? The UN had to require a Rooivalk because the bloody Hind was useless at stopping the M23.

As MikeCZA pointed out, all decent militaries are replacing the Hind with something even more dedicated... You're stuck with it because you're collecting all the military rubbish.

Snyder1ZA:


And the most sophisticated Super Hind on the continent is a South African upgrade.

...and the most dedicated naval ship is a Nigerian combatant class because it doesn't carry sailors up to a MEKO frigate.

Ntooor

Your logic is very dumb.

Snyder1ZA:


And the most sophisticated Super Hind on the continent is a South African upgrade.

iblawi:
Most successful Rooivalk mission in history.

Cameramen Airforce

It isn't about the Rooivalk but the design of attack helicopters which different companies are following accross the world from South Africa to China.

What we are seeing is they prefer following the Cobra attack helicopter design even the Russians. Then why should we believe that because the Nigerian air force flies the Mi -24 it is of superior design than what other better air forces prefer?

The Nigerian military experience in using helicopters is still isn't huge. Similar to fighter aircraft only started doing in the 2000s.

Not a an air force an attack helicopter design company can visit for an insight like South Africa did with Rhodesia during the design of the "Cat's eye". Revolutionizing air combat forever!!!!!

ActivateKruger:
Killing ISIS, yes it works... Anything can kill ISIS. But would Russia deploy a Hind against NATO? It wouldn't coz it's a poorman's attack helicopter.

Here's a list of attack helicopters if you're serious
http://www.military-today.com/helicopters/top_9_attack_helicopters.htm

Your link never called it a poor man's helicopter. Please can you give us another source describing it as a poor man helicopter.


Please tell your other friends that you link confirmed it as a dedicated attack helicopter.

iblawi:
Most successful Rooivalk mission in history.

Cameramen Airforce

Yeah maybe we should follow your example. Let an insurgency build and build, grow and grow infront of our very eyes. Until we actually have someone to fight.

iblawi:



The funny thing is you didn't consider why you needed 2-3 Rooivalk to escort UN food. A single MI35m would have done that with ease.

Honest question.

I'm about to go grab food from my kitchen, do you think i'll require a "dedicated attack" helicopter escort?

Please reply.

ssaengine:


Yeah maybe we should follow your example. Let an insurgency build and build, grow and grow infront of our very eyes. Until we actually have someone to fight.

Unfortunately, u have being running away from the real fight. You prefer hiding under UN.

Maybe we need to know why most countries have been running away from the Rooivalk dedicated attack helicopters.

No country is willing to buy your dedicated attack helicopters cause they have no intention of escorting UN food.

nemesis2u:

Chill let the Rooivalk get ready. They need to be on escort mission to get your popcorn man.

i had posted it ages ago let me leave it here

nemesis2u:

tdayof:
Common. Helicopters perform better than each other it's a norm. However saying the MI-35 isn't a dedicated helicopter because it carries troops is wrong. Tell me one thing the Mi-28 will do and the mi-35 won't do. Armament etc.

I'm not helicopter person so I will love to hear nemesis2u opinion on this argument.


Let us make it an intellectual argument please. We should avoid using insultive words. I know patches will Jump in soon.

my answer

missed this question of urs due to username ban.

MI35 and MI28 r 2 different purpose helicopters.

MI35 is a transport cum attack helicopter, which means
1.it can carry troops
2.it can perform attack roles

but the million dollar question would be,
can it do both concurrently without serious performance lose in either of the 2 capabilities ?

eg. if it is outfitted with full weapons load for attack missions, will it be able perform optimally with its full troop load ? or if it caries it full troop load will it hamper its attack capabilities with degradation in speed , range , rate of climb , agility and maneuverability etc ?

IMO the answer is utility of MI35 is dictated by its mission profile

situation one

NAF needs to destroy a BH base , but it can spare 1 M35 only , therefor SF troops r roped in to lead the assault complemented by the MI35.

so from a major base inland, a MI35 fitted with extra fuel tanks and ammo / fuel / support crew flies to the staging base . it now removes its fuel tanks tops up the normal ones from its transported supplies , arms up fully , gets its detachment of troops on board and proceeds towards target area.

near target area , it off loads its complement of troops, and flies off to reconnoiter its target area , radios in enemy position if required. SF troops move in for assult while 2 of them seek higher grounds to direct the MI35 assault over radio and acts as FAC.

since the MI35 is freed up of its troop complement, it regains it optimal attack characteristics. mean time ground assault begins and the MI35 initiates attack as directed by the FAC (forward air controllers)

important take away
it can do the job of 2,
one after the other for the best results and best utilization of the MI35 advantages / features.
ie. transport the troops to destination and off load them and then without its additional weight to bog it down , it performs its attack role with best results as its flight envelope expands considerably. (or vice versa)
in its attack configuration with zero cargo loadout its performance will be around 80% of a dedicated attack helicopter. a good pilot will be able to close this gap a little more. again combination of optimal operational altitude , temperature , speed , tactics , maneuvers etc will further close the gap further.
this difference is due to unique air frame design / rotor / engine / wings etc combination which gives the M35 its advantage for use as a transporter or a attack helicopter or both . simply stated it is not optimized for a specific role like a dedicated attack is optimized for attack role or a transport helicopter is optimized for transport.

it is very difficult to go into each and every specifics, out of my scope , so i am giving a totally generalized idea.


situation two

1 MI35 lightly armed with 2 rocket pods and its gun is tasked to transport troops from point A to point B , en route it comes under fire ,with radio calls rom HQ asking to eliminate target on priory basis or loose them for ever. the MI 35 with its troop load evades and then engages in combat maneuvers within the limitations imposed by its addition weight to hit the targets , the heavy armor saves the troops inside from small arms fire , while the MI35 hampered with its troop complements, gets it nose down by 8 degree and uses its wings to gain speed to make running fire passes to hit its targets and pull away with less than preferred tight turns (due to additional weight penalty).

after everything is over , the troops inside r totally wasted from heli sickness and swear that they will never take a helicopter ride ever again.

important take away
compared to conventional transport helicopter, MI 35 provides advantage of safety to its troop complement and good acceleration and adequate flight characteristics to engage and suppress threats for defensive and curtailed offensive action, provided there is a optimal balance between the cargo load out and troop load out.
(plz note its combat capabilities while in transport mode will not be up to the level of a dedicated attack helicopter but will hover anywhere from 40-70 % , which again will be determined by its combination of cargo/weapons loadout, full troop complement + full weapons load will lead to worse performance ) incase somebody forgets : compared to MI35, a dedicated attack helicopters carries zero troops/cargo (1 or 2 helis r exception as they have stowage compartment for downed crew.)

Tell me one thing the Mi-28 will do and the mi-35 won't do. Armament etc.

MI 28 can hover without penalty, but MI24/35 suffers from unstable hovering due to rotor downwash on the wings- a necessary trade off for increased speed and additional lift ( by the way MI24/35 have awesome speed ) . the problem was mitigated to some extent by newer powerful engines in the MI35 but still hovering places additional burden on the engines as the wings disrupts the ground effect leading to higher power demand from the engine to maintain hover.so hovering is possible but it is advised not to go for it unless in emergency.additionally it reduces engine life.

in real life MI35 operate in pairs or multiples of pairs.

in short i tried to give 2 hypothetical examples in order to highlight MI35 advantages / disadvantages according to mission profile


note : this is my Opinion , so plz use ur discretion

Nigerians and South-Africans always quarrelling, always arguing.

Why can't we all respect each others differences, live in peace and post the pictures we all want to see.

Why always squaring up for a fight?

We might not like each other, but we should respect each others differences.

Henry240:

The funny thing is the hinds Nigeria has are no where near top tear Hinds like those in North Africa

You got monkey models

ActivateKruger:



Did you know that there were Hinds in east DRC before the Rooivalk? The UN had to require a Rooivalk because the bloody Hind was useless at stopping the M23.

As MikeCZA pointed out, all decent militaries are replacing the Hind with something even more dedicated... You're stuck with it because you're collecting all the military rubbish.

Hopeless liar.

The hind are useless in stopping rebels but very useful in stopping terrorist.

Please look for a better lie. You still haven't told us what the Rooivalk have done that the hinds haven't done.

iblawi:


Unfortunately, u have being running away from the real fight. You prefer hiding under UN.

Maybe we need to know why most countries have been running away from the Rooivalk dedicated attack helicopters.

No country is willing to buy your dedicated attack helicopters cause they have no intention of escorting UN food.

Kindly state which real fight we have been running away from? Why aren't Nigerian troops in Mozambique's streets when political tensions flair up? Why are you not patrolling there? That statement is a dum.b as you thinking/believing South Africa has any God given right to enter DRC by itself.

Every attack chopper, jet, tank etc ever developed has been purchased? Everything made gets bought? And particularly in the defence industry, only the best items ever get purchased? L.O.L...weak

Henry240:


Your question should be, why do the Russians still continue to field build and field more MI-35s? Why in a combat area like Syria the MI-35 continues to do most of the work despite the presence of the MI-28 and KA-52?

It was and still remains one of the cost cheapest attack helicopters in the world. Introducing new types comes with new doctrine, SOPs etc no short cuts there unless military contractors are brought in to fly them. Formulating those and testing takes time.

In urgent need of that capability rather stick to what you know instead of introducing new types. Similar if South Africa was threatened today by an enemy amassing fighters in a near by country the first decision will be to increase the Gripens and upgrading to the E model before acquiring another type say the Rafale. Holding the line until.......

The RPG-7 is the most used rocket propelled grenade today but is it the most effective? HE..LL NO!

If only the best items ever get purchased, forums like this would not exist. Everyone would agree. The threat would be 5 pages long. Go do your own research on Rooivalks history and why things happened.

Snyder1ZA:


And the most sophisticated Super Hind on the continent is a South African upgrade.

More sophisticated that the Rooivalk

Snyder1ZA:


The funny thing is the hinds Nigeria has are no where near top tear Hinds like those in North Africa

You got monkey models

MikeCZA:
It was and still remains one of the cost cheapest attack helicopters in the world. Introducing new types comes with new doctrine, SOPs etc no short cuts there unless military contractors are brought in to fly them. Formulating those and testing takes time.

In urgent need of that capability rather stick to what you know instead of introducing new types. Similar if South Africa was threatened today by an enemy amassing fighters in a near by country the first decision will be to increase the Gripens and upgrading to the E model before acquiring another type say the Rafale. Holding the line until.......

The RPG-7 is the most used rocket propelled grenade today but is it the most effective? HE..LL NO!

Upgrade gripen C/D to E/F? And South Africa will use 9 pilots to fly 26 Gripens.

The funny part is that you still want to increase the numbers.

iblawi:


Oh! I didn't know. Please tell us what the other dedicated attack helicopters have done that the mi35/mi24 haven't achieved?

Writing long grammar won't prove you right.

The funny thing is you didn't consider why you needed 2-3 Rooivalk to escort UN food. A single MI35m would have done that with ease.

Flight characteristic, narrow fusalage( presenting a smaller target to the enemy) etc maybe? But why isn't that design being taken up by aircraft designers from South Africa to China?

Last on the escort thing. There are Mi-24s in the DRC under the same MONUSCO mission in 2013 they straffed M23 rebels threatening Goma. But the rebels captured the city and the helicopter attacks were stopped.

Both the Rooivalks and Hinds are tasked with escorting UN resources in hot areas. The UN requested the Rooivalks at the prospect of a high tempo fight.

iblawi:


Upgrade gripen C/D to E/F? And South Africa will use 9 pilots to fly 26 Gripens.

The funny part is that you still want to increase the numbers.

I dare you. Post link that shows 9 Gripen pilots in July 2017. Prove to us all that you talk facts, not spew emotions. I dare you. Post the link.

Henry240:




Which one b undedicated attack helicopter again na?

Are you talking about a child dedication?

Na to carry the chopper go church na, make pastor dedicate am.

Ask your friend ohhh na him sabi the one we'd be dedicated and the one why he undedicated.

tdayof:


They're recon and light helicopters. No difference between these and Yemenese EC-135 Says patches

He knows best after all he I'm commander in chief of the cyberspace internet warriors brigade forces of SA

Henry/patches- our soldiers are the first to shoot a gun in Africa

5 seconds later......

iblawi:
Most successful Rooivalk mission in history.

Cameramen Airforce

Wow this looks so dedicated by nature/design.

Henry240:

I would also laugh if I'm the one defending a worthless junk helo that can't hover.

ssaengine:


I dare you. Post link that shows 9 Gripen pilots in July 2017. Prove to us all that you talk facts, not spew emotions. I dare you. Post the link.

I didn't know you now train gripen pilots in Cuba and Russia.

Nothing have changed from last year bro.