felixomor:

- and thats why he showed u scientific evidence for consciousness and awareness without brain activity.
You still don't grab ?




His scientific evidence already shows consciousness beats the scope of brain activity.
Thats all he needs to show.

dalaman:


You are not talking about anything. You are just trying to build a mountain out of an abstract speculation.

3D simply means something that has height, width and depth. 11D is what? What you've failed to say is that this 11D stimuli you are talking about is not a thing at all. Its not that the brain was actually stimulated with a 11D stimuli in REALITY. All these are abstract postulations that aren't real. What they are saying is NO FACT but a ground breaking abstract claim. We are not talking about reality here but abstract postulations.

The 11D structures you are talking about are not real structures but abstracts. We need to get that clear.

dalaman:


What is 11D?

dalaman:


Which scientific evidence has he provided? Which one have you povided? Y[b]ou just provided a vidoe of a man explaining away things he insist muh be accepted in a certain way[/b]. Just drop the scientific paper that states that consciousness has been shown to exist in a person that was certified brain dead.

A vidoe of a man making assertions is not evidence of anything. This is akin to me providing a video of an evolutionists talking and explaining evolution in a video as evidence for evolution.

felixomor:


The bolded clearly shows the type of person you are.
He explained "things". And yet you cant take pain to learn or even take note of what he said.

Let alone even trying to rebut it.
You don't even care to know who the man is.
Why would you.

Apart from that, I even provided another link.
But you wont see it.

Please It is sad to inform you that discussions such as this are not meant for you.

butterflylion:



11D is a reality because the same place that processes 3D information is the same place found to possess 11D structures in response to what 3D cannot offer.

I tried explaining 11D to you but your lack of understanding could not fathom it.

If 3D talks about height, width and depth then surely 11D is way beyond that and that was why I said earlier that 11D is like seeing an object from the front, back, under, top, in between, inside out, outside in, while going through all the delicate and intense sensory reactions that come with these views as well as existing or non existing colours as we know it then processing all these information in a nano second.

Is 3D abstract? If it isn't then why would you term 11D abstract? Are you agreeing that man is limited to 3D in our material world? Since you are and since the brain only evolves based on what it is exposed to and we have the inability to expose it to 11D then why then does it have 11D structures which scientifically has been proven to be a response to an external unknown stimuli based on where it is located.

felixomor:


The bolded clearly shows the type of person you are.
He explained "things". And yet you cant take pain to learn or even take note of what he said.

Let alone even trying to rebut it.
You don't even care to know who the man is.
Why would you.

Apart from that, I even provided another link on this thread
But you wont see it.

Please It is sad to inform you that discussions such as this are not meant for you.

dalaman:


11D is not a reality. The link you gave even made that absolutely clear.

Note that extra mathematical dimensions are pure abstractions; they do not actually exist, except to make formulas balance up when the formula is otherwise WRONG!

How are these stimulations achieved or gotten from the brain? According to the link you posted they are gotten :

"Claims that these structures arise when a group of neurons forms a clique: each neuron connects to every other neuron in the group in a very specific way that generates a precise geometric object. The more neurons there are in a clique, the higher the dimension of the geometric object".

It is not as if the brain was stimulated with some external information from a dimensional plane we do not have access to at all. The scientist that conducted the study only made some extrapolation after observing a group of netrons forming a clique that generates a specific geometric object. The more neutrons the more geometric object, they then categorized then into different planes and dimensions.

This is just an extrapolation based on abstract observations. That is why the link said that the group of scientist are TRYING TO CLAIM that our knowing and awareness EXIST in 11D. Mark the word exist in 11D.

dalaman:


He isn't saying anything.

dalaman:

[s]The link he provided is saying one thing while he is saying another. The link for example clearly says that the mathematical dimensions are pure abstractions and are NOT real while he is trying to say that they are real. Why should I listen to him when the link is there and is saying a different thing.

So providing a link is everything abi? I read your link and it doesn't provide any specific or detailed evidence. It says of all the patients under study ONLY one was able to fully demonstrate an out of body consciousness when declared "dead". It didnt state how the person was declared dead and for how long. It link also made some wI'll claims about people retaining some type of cognitive abilities 3 minutes after being dead. How were they able to determine this? They didn't say. If people are able to do that , how did they know? Did the people come back to life and tell them that? If they didn't die as they also insinuated then that means they were not dead. It's that simple.[/s]

felixomor:


Oh So you mean the video is MUTE?
Then after you will say we are Liars

dalaman:


Baba provide scientific published papers not YouTube videos. This is similar to me providing a video of a professor of evolution talking about evolution as evidence of evolution to you in a debate. Don't tell me that you are this dense.

felixomor:

Dullardman
Have u ever provided a video as evidence that wasnt listened to and analysed by me?

Please Excuse yourself.
Science is not for you

dalaman:


Felixmumu provide evidence in form of scientific articles not a YouTube video. How many times have I provided a YouTube video as evidence to support any science based discussion? Does this Youtube video show any body that was certified brain dead that showed any cognitive abilities?

butterflylion:



Young man listen and I mean really listen so you would save yourself from dying of ignorance.

Neurons (also known as neurones, nerve cells and nerve fibers) are electrically excitable cells in the nervous system that function to process and transmit information

They never get exitable without an external information stimuli. A neuron does not just fire on its own. Something triggers it and for sake of this conversation and what has been observed based on the 11D response structure in the neurons it was an 11D information that triggered such a response.

When the talk about neural cliques, these cliques are network-level memory coding units in the hippocampus and they never fire up without an external stimuli.

The brain does not go into a frenzy of neural cliques without something triggering it and that something in this case were 11D stimulations. Something our world does not have and cannot offer.

The 11D response structure is an attempt by the brain to upgrade itself to the level of understanding the information it was getting. Much like a super computer would need an upgrade in order to cope with the volume of data or information which is beyond its capacity or what it was

When words like Mathematics dimensions are used In physics and mathematics, the dimension of a mathematical space (or object) is informally defined as the minimum number of coordinates needed to specify any point within it. The concept of dimension is not restricted to physical objects. High-dimensional spaces frequently occur in mathematics and the sciences

Mathematical dimensions deal with NON TANGIBLE SPECIFICS and those specifics are real but the mathematics is not tangible. They were simply trying to explain to you what mathematical dimension means and I have expanded on that explanation right now.

If you do not know the function of neurons and that they do not function without information stimulation how then can you convince anyone that you have the slightest understanding of what we are talking about? You mentioned neural cliques but do not even know what causes neural cliques. You think they just spring up randomly?

The more you argue the more you show your inability to hold this discussion with me or anyone remotely scientific. You simply look at words but not their meanings or inferences.

I have engaged you enough. You are simply going round in circles despite how simply I keep breaking things down to your level. Not all arguments are meant to won. Most are to learn from. Try to learn from this one.

dalaman:

You are just making things up because none of what you are talking about is even reported in the link you posted



Completely not true. The link you gave very clearly stated what it means by neural cliques and how they are calibrated. No where does it state that 11D simulations were injected into the brain. They clearly stated what they meant by the structures/ stimulations they were talking about and how they are gotten. They structures / stimulations" arise when a group of neurons forms a clique: each neuron connects to every other neuron in the group in a very specific way that generates a precise geometric object. The more neurons there are in a clique, the higher the dimension of the geometric object". It is based on that that they talked about 4, 5 and 6 D. They then went to say that these calibration and test using algebraic topology were carried out on a virtual brain and later on to a real brain where it was SUGGESTED that the brain constantly rewires during development to build a network with as many high-dimensional structures as possible based on their calibration. The brain is stimulated and calibrated into various dimension based on the type of clique that is formed. The more neurons there are in a clique, the higher the dimension of the geometric object. They even claimed that as a result our knowing and awareness EXIST in 11D. How is it that they are claiming that our knowing and awareness exist in 11D when you are saying that it isn't accessible to us at all and completely out of our reach. Are we reading the same thing?




Upgrade itself to which information when the same article has this to say:

"It all sounds very plausible, except for one thing: why does the brain suddenly erect 11-dimensional structures? In response to what?"



They clearly explained what they meant by mathematical dimensions in context of their article. No further explanations from.from . you is needed.



You are not explainin anything to me but making things up on your own. Where in the article was it stated that 11D simulations were passed into the neurons? Just show me that specifically pls.

these structures arise when a group of neurons forms a clique: each neuron connects to every other neuron in the group in a very specific way that generates a precise geometric object. The more neurons there are in a clique, the higher the dimension of the geometric object.

butterflylion:



This is why I detest arguing with ignorant yet proud people. The article clearly states and I quote.

We found a world that we had never imagined,” says neuroscientist Henry Markram, director of Blue Brain Project and professor at the EPFL in Lausanne, Switzerland, “there are tens of millions of these objects even in a small speck of the brain, up through seven dimensions. In some networks, we even found structures with up to eleven dimensions.”

These dimensions as in this case 11D response structures were already present in even a small speck of the brain and in some neural cliques or networks they found up to 11D response structures.

They were already there and they used the below to explain how they calculated dimensions.




Since they already had a 3D reference it was easy to use the same response structures to now calculate higher dimensions with the help of algebraic topology via the neural cliques. The reason why algebraic topology was used was due to the extremely high neural cliques or networks involved. You only employ topology when you wish to mathematically calculate abstracts.

Why do you have to deliberately be dishonest? Why?

Supernoetics is an attempt to rebuild the brain by man so intense studies into the workings of our neurons are extremely important and they know what they are on about.

They have proven that the brain constantly rewires itself during development (higher information exposure) to build a network with as many high-dimensional structures as possible and the highest they came across was 11D.

I have told you I am done arguing with you because you are obviously ignorant but now you also wish to add dishonesty to that. So quit quoting me on this subject.

dalaman:


You are just making things up and claiming to know what clearly you have shown you do not know. The article clearly states what the structures / stimulations are and how they are calibrated. When applied the structures are calibrated into different dimensions. It is this dimensions the article dwells on. You on the other hand is saying that external 11D stimulations were injected into the neurons and the neurons responded in a certain way when the article never made that claim. The article even asked why the brain suddenly erect 11-dimensional structures? In response to what?" If they are using 11D stimulations as you are saying why then are they asking such questions. You are dishonestly spinning their article and still accusing me of dishonesty. Run along if you have nothing to say.

Abeg hopefulLandlord come and see what this one is saying. Follow the debate and give me your honest opinion pls.

why does the brain suddenly erect 11-dimensional structures? In response to what?

butterflylion:


Please and please stop quoting me since dishonesty is now fanciful.

Where did I say they injected 11D stimuli? I simply said the response structures which are 11D were triggered by another stimuli which obviously wasn't from our 3D limited world. This was why the question was asked why the brain would erect 11D structures since our world only had 3D stimuli and this quote was the question.



In response to what? We have a world limited to 3D yet the brain developed 11D response structures in her neural cliques. The brain being a machine that responds to external stimuli shouldn't be having 11D response structures when it has only been exposed to 3D stimuli from our world.

So the big question is WHY? WHERE? HOW?

WHY is the brain raising these response structures when we only offer 3D stimuli

WHERE are these 11D stimuli coming from?

HOW is the brain able to break down this information it obviously has been receiving in 11D to our own 3D so beautifully without being fried?

The questions and ramifications are endless but of course you would never see those ramifications being the unscientific mind you are.

Calling on another unscientific mind such as hopefullandlord is a desperate cry for support or help from one who is in over his head. But how can you call one who cannot swim to save another who also cannot swim?

Like I said, not all arguments are meant to be won. Many are to learn from. You should try learning from this one.

Enjoy your swim and you can finally cease quoting me now regarding this topic which you ignorantly have been arguing about. It's futile arguing with people who do not understand scientific language.

butterflylion:


Please and please stop quoting me since dishonesty is now fanciful.

Where did I say they injected 11D stimuli? I simply said the response structures which are 11D were triggered by another stimuli which obviously wasn't from our 3D limited world. This was why the question was asked why the brain would erect 11D structures since our world only had 3D stimuli and this quote was the question.

In response to what? We have a world limited to 3D yet the brain developed 11D response structures in her neural cliques. The brain being a machine that responds to external stimuli shouldn't be having 11D response structures when it has only been exposed to 3D stimuli from our world.

So the big question is WHY? WHERE? HOW?

WHY is the brain raising these response structures when we only offer 3D stimuli

WHERE are these 11D stimuli coming from?

HOW is the brain able to break down this information it obviously has been receiving in 11D to our own 3D so beautifully without being fried?

The questions and ramifications are endless but of course you would never see those ramifications being the unscientific mind you are.

Calling on another unscientific mind such as hopefullandlord is a desperate cry for support or help from one who is in over his head. But how can you call one who cannot swim to save another who also cannot swim?

Like I said, not all arguments are meant to be won. Many are to learn from. You should try learning from this one.

Enjoy your swim and you can finally cease quoting me now regarding this topic which you ignorantly have been arguing about. It's futile arguing with people who do not understand scientific language.

felixomor:


He should have been ignored long ago.

butterflylion:


That was a huge mistake I made. Though it's hard ignoring a mosquito when it's singing in your ear.

dalaman:


Pls explain what you mean by consiouness so that I can understand what you are talking about.

dalaman:


Pls explain what you mean by consiouness so that I can understand what you are talking about.

ifenes:


"Supernatural" based on individual level of knowledge. We tend to term things beyond our knowledge and expectations " Supernatural" but everything is natural. Ignorance is the only problem.

Athiesm itself is born out of rebellion against organised religion/ programmed, mis-education on the term " God". Because our human societies have been severely misinformed on topics about Gods, demons, ghosts etc , it is normal to find some people react differently to such beliefs and dissociat themselves from such and rather look for evidence. This is a typical human feature that we share with other life forms.

However, it doesn't mean people who term themselves Athiest have the right information,but at least they ain't buying an obvious rediculous interpretation from religious leaders. This is how far Athiesm has gone,but it is still a very primitive idea.......otherwise our human history and academical lessons also need to be questioned. Perhaps such people would have to come by another name/ title.

Personally I feel Athiesm will evolve from just destroying organised lying religious empires to actually rectifying,repairing and solving them. Knowledge will be gained and terms like Ghosts, God, parallel universes, energy bubbles, extradimensional beings will be fully understood. With the way people's minds have been wrongfully misinformed, any other ideas is wrong. But we must not see anything as " supernatural " because we do not understand them but natural because nature is vast.

shadeyinka:


And you are correct. Atheism will evolve to become a full fledged religion in the future.

umm12345:
Just came across this forum while Googling myself. Here's a link to my post on Quora that was quoted here, since it seems to be in question: https://www.quora.com/How-do-atheists-who-believe-in-ghosts-justify-that-belief-given-they-have-no-belief-in-God/answer/Sally-Ulianich

I don't need to be involved with whatever conversation y'all have going on here, just saw my name mentioned multiple times.

Sally U.