hahn:


Do you have pictures of this "beautiful" place? Have you ever been there? Is there anyone from your family that is there right now?

Share you story with us please

If I share with you would you believe?

dalaman:


How can something that was known last century be mentioned about 2000 years ago if it wasn't already known?

It was not until this past century that blue Topaz became widespread on the gem market! Before then it was an insignificant gemstone.

butterflylion:


It was not until this past century that blue Topaz became widespread on the gem market! Before then it was an insignificant gemstone.

I read the wikipedia entry Ranchhoddas posted and it suggest that the topaz mentioned in the bible is a yellow stone that is different from the topaz known today due to translation error from the Septuagint.

Ranchhoddas:
I don't know why you are quoting all these rubbish.
You keep using "diamonds" as if there is only one kind of kind of diamond.
Red diamonds for example are more valuable than gold. Why were they not used instead?
Gold like any other substance is valuable because of its rarity. It will drop in value if it becomes commonplace.
I remember reading the story of Mansa Musa who singlehandedly devalued gold in regions in Africa and the Middle East.
ANYTHING CAN LOSE VALUE.
The Topaz mentioned in the Bible is not the same as the one recently discovered. Don't kid yourself.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topaz

Your other gemstones are still not the most precious in the world.

This is list of most valuable substances.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2015/11/02/12-most-expensive-gemstones-world/
The question is why were they not used?
Every other thing you have written is meaningless gymnastics?
I can also see you are refusing to tell us the reason for gates and high walls.

By the way ranchhoddas here is an extract from Forbes. You can copy the test and search for the actual article.

Until recently, only emerald, ruby and sapphire were officially called precious gems. Everything else was called semi-precious. The precious categorization is a reference to value: a really fine ruby, emerald or sapphire can be priced higher per carat than a diamond.

Did you see their careful reference to value?

I bet you would still miss it.

dalaman:


I read the wikipedia entry Ranchhoddas posted and it suggest that the topaz mentioned in the bible is a yellow stone that is different from the topaz known today due to translation error from the Septuagint.

Let me post that specific scripture.

Revelations 21 from verse 20


the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.

Can you show me where God gave specifics about the topaz mentioned there?

Anyway you already used the word SUGGESTS. So you already defeated your argument and the Bible passage sealed it for you.

Thank you for the effort but Kolewerk!

butterflylion:


Dude you have lost this one. The kind of topaz mentioned in the Bible was not specified but you can trust God to use the finest of qualities and purity

Here is a quote about Ruby.

Rubies are the most valuable members of the corundum family. Large gem-quality rubies can be more valuable than comparably sized diamonds and are certainly rarer. There is a relative abundance of smaller, 1-3 carat blue sapphires compared to the scarcity of even small gem-quality rubies.


Here you are saying that gold would drop in value if it becomes common place but the experts disagree with you and it was already mentioned in the article. So let me refresh your vision with the extract again.



The price doesn't change if gold is new bullion or heirloom jewelry.

Unlike oil, the price of gold won't drop if the market suddenly becomes flooded with gold

Yet in your ignorance you said the value of gold would drop if it becomes common place. This is why I said you have no idea what value is.


So now your argument is no longer about diamonds but why others more precious were not used ba? Kikikikikikikiki

You are gradually running out of leg room

Gates and walls are used for boundaries and fortification.

Same revelations 21 says there will be 12 gates around this city and each gate would have an angel stationed there. However the gates WILL NEVER BE SHUT.

you can see it from verse 24 to the end.

The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.


There is purpose in all that God does and there is also purpose behind why he deliberately left out Diamond.

No other gem is as valuable or consistent as gold. God loves consistency. Note we are not talking about price or worth or expensiveness. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT VALUE!

You posted Forbes that talks about expensiveness while we are talking about VALUE. i wonder why no country invests in any of your list of most expensive gems but would rather go for ever reliable gold. . THEY UNDERSTAND AND KNOW VALUE! YOU ONLY SEE PRICE! THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN VALUE AND PRICE! LET ME SAY IT AGAIN, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN VALUE AND PRICE!

Price is determined by the intersection of supply and demand! Value is not!

The cost of a product or service is the amount you spend to produce it. the price is your financial reward for providing the product or service. Value is what your customer believes the product or service is worth to them.

I believe I am done here.

Your experts are wrong. Gold will lose value if it becomes commonplace.
I gave you Mansa Musa's example which you have refused to acknowledge. The value of gold dropped when he began distributing it to everyone.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article58593.html

Your insistence on the reverse shows you only read things without thinking.
What inherent quality does gold have that would make it still valuable if it was so common that even streets were lined with it?
This article gives you an idea of the topaz that was meant.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topaz

Value is the usefulness (utility) of something. How useful will gold be in your New Jerusalem?
You should also note that value and price are not mutually exclusive.
Fortifications are only necessary when there is an adversary or a potential one. Are you expecting such in New Jerusalem?

hahn:


Never gonna happen. The same god that couldn't create earth the first time surely won't be able to achieve it if given a second chance

It's an undeniable truth. Our God already has a master plan in place to undo all the havoc that Satan has caused and to fix the problem of the world permanently and it'll be a happy ending. I look forward to that world. How do I know it's possible? my God is omnipotent. The fact that he's not acting now doesn't mean he cannot or is incapacitated.

dalaman:


I read the wikipedia entry Ranchhoddas posted and it suggest that the topaz mentioned in the bible is a yellow stone that is different from the topaz known today due to translation error from the Septuagint.

He's going to pretend he did not see it.

butterflylion:


Let me post that specific scripture.

Revelations 21 from verse 20


the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.

Can you show me where God gave specifics about the topaz mentioned there?

Anyway you already used the word SUGGESTS. So you already defeated your argument and the Bible passage sealed it for you.

Thank you for the effort but Kolewerk!

From wikipedia:

"Many modern English translations of the Bible, including the King James Version mention topaz. However, because these translations as topaz all derive from the Septuagint translation topazi[os], which as mentioned above referred to a yellow stone that was not topaz, but probably chrysolite (chrysoberyl or peridot), it should be borne in mind that topaz is likely not meant here"

Ranchhoddas:
He's going to pretend he did not see it.

He was mentioning blue Topaz.

Ranchhoddas:
Your experts are wrong. Gold will lose value if it becomes commonplace.
I gave you Mansa Musa's example which you have refused to acknowledge. The value of gold dropped when he began distributing it to everyone.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article58593.html

Your insistence on the reverse shows you only read things without thinking.
What inherent quality does gold have that would make it still valuable if it was so common that even streets were lined with it?
This article gives you an idea of the topaz that was meant.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topaz

Value is the usefulness (utility) of something. How useful will gold be in your New Jerusalem?
You should also note that value and price are not mutually exclusive.
Fortifications are only necessary when there is an adversary or a potential one. Are you expecting such in New Jerusalem?

I like your succinct post.

Ranchhoddas:
Your experts are wrong. Gold will lose value if it becomes commonplace.
I gave you Mansa Musa's example which you have refused to acknowledge. The value of gold dropped when he began distributing it to everyone.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article58593.html

Your insistence on the reverse shows you only read things without thinking.
What inherent quality does gold have that would make it still valuable if it was so common that even streets were lined with it?
This article gives you an idea of the topaz that was meant.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topaz

Value is the usefulness (utility) of something. How useful will gold be in your New Jerusalem?
You should also note that value and price are not mutually exclusive.
Fortifications are only necessary when there is an adversary or a potential one. Are you expecting such in New Jerusalem?

The value of gold in this new Jerusalem would be valueless and you know why? It's because it would be on the streets! People would trample over them.

The writers from their own perspective saw it as value but from Gods angle it's of no value since its for all to walk on even though it would be of the best quality.

On earth gold is rare but it's value isn't! I can see you do not still understand what value really is

Even when its common place its value wouldn't change simple as ABC.

Gold is precious not because it is rare. It is because it is chemically uninteresting.

I suggest you and anyone else who is interested should read this


http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25255957

The value of gold isn't dependant on supply. Because gold is a mineral, it's strength and value lies in its properties and that takes us to our periodic table. Read the article I just posted. If you cannot I would post it here for you.

Regarding the gates and walls I am sure you saw me mention the gates would never be shut. I may not have all the answers but I do know one thing and that is that the gates will never be shut so this means the gates or walls are not for fortification. If they were then they should be shut at some point. But the scriptures say at no time ever will they be shut.

butterflylion:



The value of gold in this new Jerusalem would be valueless and you know why? It's because it would be on the streets! People would trample over them.

The writers from their own perspective saw it as value but from Gods angle it's of no value since its for all to walk on even though it would be of the best quality.

On earth gold is rare but it's value isn't! I can see you do not still understand what value really is

Even when its common place its value wouldn't change simple as ABC.

Gold is precious not because it is rare. It is because it is chemically uninteresting.

I suggest you and anyone else who is interested should read this


http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25255957

The value of gold isn't dependant on supply. Because gold is a mineral, it's strength and value lies in its properties and that takes us to our periodic table. Read the article I just posted. If you cannot I would post it here for you.

Regarding the gates and walls I am sure you saw me mention the gates would never be shut. I may not have all the answers but I do know one thing and that is that the gates will never be shut so this means the gates or walls are not for fortification. If they were then they should be shut at some point. But the scriptures say at no time ever will they be shut.

Are you alright at all?
So you mean you can see from God's perspective but the Bible writers could not?
Do you mind telling us how you acquired this ability?
I just showed you that Musa devalued gold by increasing the supply. Why do you still insist otherwise?
Get this into your coconut head - VALUE AND PRICE ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.
Did you not say that the New Jerusalem will be on earth
Value is utility. Nothing more.

Ranchhoddas:
Are you alright at all?
So you mean you can see from God's perspective but the Bible writers could not?
Do you mind telling us how you acquired this ability?
I just showed you that Musa devalued gold by increasing the supply. Why do you still insist otherwise.
Get this into your coconut head - VALUE AND PRICE ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.
Did you not say that the New Jerusalem will be on earth
Value is utility. Nothing more.

Your block head is certainly doing a number on you today.

Let me help you a bit before you get cardiac arrest.

Value represents the amount of money that you are willing to pay for anything. Price is the amount of money that you are asked to pay for it

READ THIS OVER AND OVER UNTIL IT SINKS IN!

PEOPLE BUY THINGS IF VALUE IS GREATER THAN PRICE!

PRICE NEVER AFFECTS VALUE!

(Read that over and over as well)

Regarding this streets of gold issue, it's common sense that God would use only the best for man based on mans values hence the street being paved with gold. But since it would be on the streets and trampled upon (I know that is God talking about how common he sees it) but we place value on it.

VALUE IS WHAT YOU GET! PRICE IS WHAT YOU PAY. VALUE IS NEVER DEPENDANT ON PRICE!

I can see you are no longer holding on to your precious stones argument

Being block headed is curable. Receive your cure

Bolaji21:

It's an undeniable truth. Our God already has a master plan in place to undo all the havoc that Satan has caused and to fix the problem of the world permanently and it'll be a happy ending. I look forward to that world. How do I know it's possible? my God is omnipotent. The fact that he's not acting now doesn't mean he cannot or is incapacitated.

What was your god doing when Satan was causing problems? NOTHING!

Besides your god is to blame for evil. It has even accepted responsibility in the book of crap Isaiah 45:7 New International Version
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Yes. It is incompetent

asuustrike2009:

If I share with you would you believe?

Share it first. Then it will be subject to scrutiny

hahn:

Share it first. Then it will be subject to scrutiny

Hehehehehehehehe
the guy is just talking nonsense and doesn't even know when to stop lol

butterflylion:



Your block head is certainly doing a number on you today.

Let me help you a bit before you get cardiac arrest.

Value represents the amount of money that you are willing to pay for anything. Price is the amount of money that you are asked to pay for it

READ THIS OVER AND OVER UNTIL IT SINKS IN!

PEOPLE BUY THINGS IF VALUE IS GREATER THAN PRICE!

PRICE NEVER AFFECTS VALUE!

(Read that over and over as well)

Regarding this streets of gold issue, it's common sense that God would use only the best for man based on mans values hence the street being paved with gold. But since it would be on the streets and trampled upon (I know that is God talking about how common he sees it) but we place value on it.

VALUE IS WHAT YOU GET! PRICE IS WHAT YOU PAY. VALUE IS NEVER DEPENDANT ON PRICE!

I can see you are no longer holding on to your precious stones argument

Being block headed is curable. Receive your cure

I am getting tired of you. Show me where I said that price affects value.
I told you that gold will drop in value if it becomes commonplace and gave you a real life example.
Value is what you think something is worth. Its UTILITY and this is not independent of price.

Stop creating arguments so you can defeat them.

Neymar is very valuable, so he commands a very high price.
They are not the same thing, but the distinction is subtle.
If you still don't understand it then you should gerarahere.

hahn:


What was your god doing when Satan was causing problems? NOTHING!

Besides your god is to blame for evil. It has even accepted responsibility in the book of crap Isaiah 45:7 New International Version
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Yes. It is incompetent

I see you're angry with your God. Well, he's still your creator and you're his creature. You can't change that.

If you feel the inventors of gun powder are to blame for world War 1&2, it's your choice. And if you feel the German chemist who discovered uranium is to blame for the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings too, it's your choice. Man has always been known to instinctively shift blame to others.

Ranchhoddas:
I am getting tired of you. Show me where I said that price affects value.
I told you that gold will drop in value if it becomes commonplace and gave you a real life example.
Value is what you think something is worth. Its UTILITY and this is not independent of price.

Stop creating arguments so you can defeat them.

Neymar is very valuable, so he commands a very high price.
They are not the same thing, but the distinction is subtle.
If you still don't understand it then you should gerarahere.

Chai Chai Chai.

So much empty headedness in one person. SMH.

Value has nothing to do with price.

A FREE THING CAN BE MORE VALUABLE TO ONE THAN THINGS HE PAID FOR.

VALUE IS PERSONALLY GIVEN WHILE PRICE IS MARKET DRIVEN!

I CAN DERIVE IMMENSE VALUE FROM A SIMPLE FREE HUG THAN FROM A DIAMOND ENCRUSTED WATCH I BOUGHT FOR $1M

VALUE CANNOT BE BOUGHT! VALUE CAN BE ATTACHED BUT NOT PAID FOR!

read these again and again until sense falls on you.

Let me repeat. VALUE AFFECTS (DETERMINES) PRICE AND NOT PRICE AFFECTING (DETERMINING) VALUE!

sell a car for $50billion and I will not buy it simply because I SEE NO VALUE IN IT!

HOWEVER SHOW ME REASON WHY I SHOULD VALUE THIS CAR THEN I WOULD DETERMINE MY PRICE FOR IT AND IN MOST CASES MY PRICE WOULD BE HIGHER THAN YOUR AASUMPTIONS.

good marketers would always tell you to sell value and not price because price is nothing. VALUE IS EVERYTHING!

VALUE AND PRICE ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE A LOT BECAUSE VALUE IS RELATIVE!

What person A holds as valuable may not be so with person B. What person A decides to pay for a valuable item depends on how much VALUE he has placed on that valuable item.

You say Neymar is valuable which is why he is highly priced. You are wrong! The team who need Neymar had VALUE for him so were willing to part with said sum for him. Other teams did not see same value in him otherwise a lot of teams would have been trying to outbid each other for him. They rather saw VALUE in other players based on their personal areas of focus.

I hope you have read the link I gave you and filled your empty head with some nuggets of knowledge. If you did and still do not get it then gerraraahiaaa men! I would then treat you as a special needs nairalander.

Bolaji21:

I see you're angry with your God. Well, he's still your creator and you're his creature. You can't change that.

If you feel the inventors of gun powder are to blame for world War 1&2, it's your choice. And if you feel the German chemist who discovered uranium is to blame for the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings too, it's your choice. Man has always been known to instinctively shift blame to others.

he's not angry with any god, he's just telling you your god idea makes no sense!

don't make the mistake of thinking criticising your imaginary friend is same as hating it

butterflylion:



Chai Chai Chai.

So much empty headedness in one person. SMH.

Value has nothing to do with price.

A FREE THING CAN BE MORE VALUABLE TO ONE THAN THINGS HE PAID FOR.

VALUE IS PERSONALLY GIVEN WHILE PRICE IS MARKET DRIVEN!

I CAN DERIVE IMMENSE VALUE FROM A SIMPLE FREE HUG THAN FROM A DIAMOND ENCRUSTED WATCH I BOUGHT FOR $1M

VALUE CANNOT BE BOUGHT! VALUE CAN BE ATTACHED BUT NOT PAID FOR!

read these again and again until sense falls on you.

Let me repeat. VALUE AFFECTS (DETERMINES) PRICE AND NOT PRICE AFFECTING (DETERMINING) VALUE!

sell a car for $50billion and I will not buy it simply because I SEE NO VALUE IN IT!

HOWEVER SHOW ME REASON WHY I SHOULD VALUE THIS CAR THEN I WOULD DETERMINE MY PRICE FOR IT AND IN MOST CASES MY PRICE WOULD BE HIGHER THAN YOUR AASUMPTIONS.

good marketers would always tell you to sell value and not price because price is nothing. VALUE IS EVERYTHING!

I hope you have read the link I gave you and filled your empty head with some nuggets of knowledge. If you did and still do not get it then gerraraahiaaa men! I would then treat you as a special needs nairalander.

I think you are crazy.
Where have I said price determines value?
Please show me where I said it before I continue.

Ranchhoddas:
I think you are crazy.
Where have I said price determines value?
Please show me where I said it before I continue.

You do not need to continue because you have nothing more to add.

You said price and value are not mutually exclusive and I just told you that value and price are mutually exclusive because value can be gotten from a free item while price cannot force me to place value in anything I personally see no value in.

In that regard value is everything while price is simply a personal preference placed on value.

hopefulLandlord:


he's not angry with any god, he's just telling you your god idea makes no sense!

don't make the mistake of thinking criticising your imaginary friend is same as hating it

Even an average student of English language knows if someone is angry from what he typed.
Point of correction, He's not an idea, He's an absolute truth which is not begging for you to believe. Just say He doesn't make sense to you, that's all. Don't get emotional about it.

Bolaji21:

Even an average student of English language knows if someone is angry from what he typed.
Point of correction, He's not an idea, He's an absolute truth which is not begging for you to believe. Just say He doesn't make sense to you, that's all. Don't get emotional about it.

it is an idea that's begging us to believe lol

your god remains an idea out of thousands of other god ideas and your religion remains an idea under a god out of many other ideas

and you're the one getting emotional

butterflylion:


You do not need to continue because you have nothing more to add.

You said price and value are not mutually exclusive and I just told you that value and price are mutually exclusive because value can be gotten from a free item while price cannot force me to place value in anything I personally see no value in.

In that regard value is everything while price is simply a personal preference placed on value.

Does value affect price?
Simple yes or no!

hopefulLandlord:


it is an idea that's begging us to believe lol

The audience knows you're the one begging God not to exist. A simple look into your nairaland profile says it all. I rest my case.

Bolaji21:

The audience knows you're the one begging God not to exist. A simple look into your nairaland profile says it all. I rest my case.

audience? lol, never knew you can read minds, is that another gift from your imaginary hole-ly spirit?

Ranchhoddas:
Does value affect price?
Simple yes or no!

Value does not necessarily affect price. It is not set in stone.

What you are doing is known as subjective theory of value Which is simply a circular reasoning.

If you say value affects price then anyone who sees the high price SHOULD believe that item is valuable to them. WRONG!

value is relative to people and what one person has given value to and caused a high price tag on it does not mean everyone or another person would also give same value to the same thing or even be willing to pay a dime for it.

Value is gotten via SELF SATISFACTION! if it can satisfy me then I MUST HAVE IT!

but if it cannot satisfy me then I DO NOT WANT IT EVEN FOR FREE!

there are those things which hold SENTIMENTAL VALUE to people. For example a car made in 1940 which in todays world has no physical value due to its technological backwardness and limitations but to another it holds SENTIMENTAL value and such people are called COLLECTORS or ANTIQUE COLLECTORS.

you can have such a 1940 vehicle sitting in your garage and rusting away and even looking for who would come and buy it for scrap metal. But a sentimental collector would come and offer you $500k for it.

The value that collector PERSONALLY gave to that thing determined his price but to you, it held no value. NOTE THAT IT WAS A PERSONAL DETERMINATION AND NOT A GENERAL ONE.

Hope you are not still confused sha

butterflylion:


Value does not necessarily affect price. It is not set in stone.

What you are doing is known as subjective theory of value Which is simply a circular reasoning.

If you say value affects price then anyone who sees the high price SHOULD believe that item is valuable to them. WRONG!

value is relative to people and what one person has given value to and caused a high price tag on it does not mean everyone or another person would also give same value to the same thing or even be willing to pay a dime for it.

Value is gotten via SELF SATISFACTION! if it can satisfy me then I MUST HAVE IT!

but if it cannot satisfy me then I DO NOT WANT IT EVEN FOR FREE!

there are those things which hold SENTIMENTAL VALUE to people. For example a car made in 1940 which in todays world has no physical value due to its technological backwardness and limitations but to another it holds SENTIMENTAL value and such people are called COLLECTORS or ANTIQUE COLLECTORS.

you can have such a 1940 vehicle sitting in your garage and rusting away and even looking for who would come and buy it for scrap metal. But a sentimental collector would come and offer you $500k for it.

The value that collector PERSONALLY gave to that thing determined his price but to you, it held no value. NOTE THAT IT WAS A PERSONAL DETERMINATION AND NOT A GENERAL ONE.

Hope you are not still confused sha

Oh God.
Is this satisfaction not what I meant by utility?
Does this not affect price?
From your car example you have just shown that value/satisfaction and price are not independent of each other so why are you wrestling with your shadow?

hopefulLandlord:


audience? lol, never knew you can read minds, is that another gift from your imaginary hole-ly spirit?

If this is what you want to keep doing, please don't bother to mention me again. Is it that hard to figure you're not the only one viewing or will view this public topic?

Ranchhoddas:
Oh God.
Is this satisfaction not what I meant by utility?
Does this not affect price?
From your car example you have just shown that value/satisfaction and price are not independent of each other so why are you wrestling with your shadow?

Na wa o! Why are you so blind to the obvious.

I said price per value is not general but relative but you said price per value is general.

Price does not determine value! This is what your stance implied : it implies that once a high price is placed on an item anywhere in the world then that item must be valuable to everyone in the world. THIS IS WRONG.

I had to take time to give you a lengthy breakdown so you would see the glaring difference but as expected you still did not see it.

It's alright anyway, not everyone is meant to quickly grasp simple issues

Anything else?

Bolaji21:

If this is what you want to keep doing, please don't bother to mention me again. Is it that hard to figure you're not the only one viewing or will view this public topic?

don't get emotional bro, I'm only scrutinising your claim of knowing exactly what those viewing are "thinking"

but if you don't want me to mention you again, just reiterate it and it would be done, no biggie