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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Daddy Freeze Would Certainly End An Athiest Or Agnostic. Hardmirror's Opinion (4431 Views)
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Re: Daddy Freeze Would Certainly End An Athiest Or Agnostic. Hardmirror's Opinion by OkCornel(m): 11:24am On Jan 18, 2018 |
ScienceWatch: I fully accept what you said here. But per the bolded (red), let me clear the air a bit. People react differently when they "feel" they have been deceived by religion and religious people for so long. It feels like discovering your children are not yours after several years of raising them up dutifully. When they realize this...some may not manage their emotions (hatred and anger) properly...and they vent it blindly on the religious system and God eventually. Then there are others who are hurt quite alright...but they get a grip on their emotions unlike Cain...and they handle the situation well...until they have a personal encounter with God to know Him for who He truly is. Not all atheists are the same. Some are reasonable..then some are fanatical in their hatred. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Daddy Freeze Would Certainly End An Athiest Or Agnostic. Hardmirror's Opinion by damosky12(m): 11:39am On Jan 18, 2018 |
OkCornel: Do you know that as logical as you sound with the theory of steps to salvation, the Bible never teach that. There is no where you hear "After that ye believed, work so that you may be accepted of my father". No! Does that not seem a subtle way of saying, " you are not completely saved by grace, you need works too"? But, you know what? The Bible never contradicts when studied well. I always study a material from its clearer statements to those not clear. I find Ephesians 2:8 very clear on this question. Ephesians 2:8 [8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: It actually used SAVED. It didn't say, "by grace you are being saved". Hence, don't you think that debunks the theory of steps? See this too Romans 3:21-22 [21]But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [22]Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: He seems to say those that have faith in Jesus as their Lord are righteous. He calls it the righteousness of God. See this again, Romans 10:1,3-4 [1]Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. [3]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. [4]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Yet another chapter talking about the righteousness of God. That righteousness seems to come by just believing. It is, in fact, called a free gift in chapter 5:16-17. All these suggest that one's complete safety is taken care of in Christ.
You know what, our minds have, overtime, been trained in the world that when you offend, you are punished. That's not the case here. Its actually easy to make a submission like yours... But the Bible shows us that the new testament man is not judged by his sins, of what need is the term "saved by grace" or "under grace (unmerited acceptance)" if one is really not saved after all? This is what John wrote to Christians: 1 John 2-2 [1]My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:[2]And he is the propitiation for our sins... Besides, I'd like you to know that the new testament man doesn't find sin comfortable with his Spirit. No one becomes born again and just falls in love with stealing, telling lies. No one! If you find Christians involved in this, like the Corinthian Christians, they haven't outgrown the flesh yet. A Christian has the Holy Spirit in his Spirit (Ephesians 1:13). He has love in his Spirit (ROM 5:5). Now, you see him do something wrong because his mind is simply not renewed to succumb to his Spirit. The Spirit man, which is the real man is perfect. The imperfections come from the flesh. Now, what goes to heaven or hell? The Spirit or the body? The Spirit does! If a Christian is perfect in his Spirit man, will the inability to produce that perfection in the flesh send the Spirit to hell? The Spirit is perfect after all. God works in that Spirit. How will that Spirit go to hell?
Thanks for approaching this. The parable of talent doesn't deal with people who are in Christ. I'll leave it at that. Let's start from the VERY obvious to get to the not so obvious. It helps curb confusion. After all, the Bible doesn't contradict. Do you know that it is the same Corinthian church that had problems with fornication, taking each other to court, speaking against Paul's apostolic authority over them. Paul admonished them to grow, that's right. But there was NEVER any mention of the possibility of going to hell. I thought if one isn't saved by just believing but by works also, Paul should have shown them the red sign that 'hey! you may go to hell'. On the contrary, he says 'you do those things because you are 'babies in Christ'. In Christ? These guys were actually living in the flesh. It is this same guys he told have been called to Jesus (1Cor 1:9). He said the testimony of Christ is confirmed in them (verse 6). In fact, he said: 1 Corinthians 1:30 [30]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness... 1 Corinthians 3:23 [23] And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's. Aren't you seeing what I am seeing?
You refer to the Laodicean church in Revelation 3:14. Yet, it doesn't refer to their lack of Spiritual growth but a total neglect of Spiritual things for materialism. Revelation 3:17 [17]Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: They lost zeal for God. That means they stopped praying, coming to church, studying, etc. Verse 19 even says "be zealous and repent". Verse 20 makes it clearer. Revelation 3:20 [20]Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. These guys clearly neglected Christ. The funny thing is that they may be doing good (afrerall they had money), giving to the poor, not fighting each other, etc. But they lost the zeal for Christ, for fellowship, for prayer and the likes. Why would Christ be knocking on the doors of their heart to get their attention? The Corinthian church couldn't have been that way, even though they were babies in Christ. Why? 1 Corinthians 1:6 [6]Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: They were really into Christ. They were passionate about Spiritual things. 1 Corinthians 14:12 [12]Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. These guys had zeal. They were actually hot. That they were babies only means they had not yielded their emotions and leadings to God's leading in the way they related with each other. That's what makes them babies (immature) in Christ. Yet, they spoke with tongues, they manifested the gifts of the Spirit, the testimony of Christ is confirmed in them. That means these ones are really saved. Yet, without works. It helps us agree with Ephesians 2:8. "you are saved by grace through faith... not of yourself"
That's not difficult. Faith in God (not in gods) had been existent even in the days of Enoch. Hebrews 11:5. Abraham was justified by that faith. Gen 15:6. Noah found grace by that faith. etc. Before, Jesus came to die, he was believed in figuratively by those who accepted God. See this, Hebrews 11:19 [19]Accounting that God was able to raise him (Isaac) up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him (Christ) in a figure. Hence, the law was given with focus on recognising, accepting and loving God. Now, Paul makes this clear... Romans 2:14-15 [14]For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: [15]Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts... So, those who lived before Jesus are accepted on the basis of their believing and the acceptance of the Lordship of the Supreme One who created heaven and earth. To accept this is to accept Jesus in a figure. People who believed thus were not necessarily perfect (just like Abraham who lied, slept with his maid or Noah who got drunk and slept with his kids), but accepted based on accepting God's lordship. No one rejects the authority of God or His existence and be accepted on the basis of good works. How Biblical is that?
You scratched the surface. There are and were atheist who lived good, moral, well behaved, generous, etc. Is that a truthful life. That truthful life you mean is what I described above. That's the life that the old testament saints lived.
Please do. You'll like it. Note the phrase. 1 Corinthians 3:15 [15]If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; ... It'll put every thing in perspective. Note where he us coming from too. How that he is speaking about how he had planted (worked), Apolos watered (worked). Nothing there could help think that discussion was about sinners.
Matthew 7:22-23 [22]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [23]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Why do we sometimes think Jesus isnt being truthful? He said I NEVER KNEW YOU. Not for once! That means they were NEVER saved. Jesus didn't say, 'I know you no more'. He said I NEVER KNEW YOU. That means He never did. They were never " saved by grace through faith". Those guys were telling lies. They could have had some stage managed miracles. But, they were not saved. The sheep are separate from the goats na. Why would they all have to be on a queue. God cannot be confused. That parable that talks about the end of the world and the sheep being severed from the goats is RAPTURE. How will the saints rapture to be with Christ and still end up on the same queue or judgement place with unbelievers? How does that meet up? 1 Thessalonians 4:17 [17]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Think about these. Revelations 20 doesn't have to be confused. I revealed clearly from there the other time how those judgements differ. The saints gets the judgement of reward as recorded in the book of life of them. The unbelievers are not written at all.
I believe you are reading this well. As I said, anyone who receives the gospel has the Holy Spirit in his Spirit. His Spirit becomes alive to God. He has the fruits of the Spirit in his Spirit (the real him). What became born again is his Spirit. Not the body. Now, its the Spirit of a man that goes to hell, not body. How will a Spirit of a born again man go to hell? If he continually lives waywardly, the problem is not from him. Its from the church where he is or from those who led him to Christ. As long as a man believes the gospel and accepts the Lordship of Jesus, he is saved. What is left is the place of the cleansing and renewal (ROM 12:2) of his mind so as to be able to produce good works on earth. The Spirit of a saved man is saved. He believes and accepts the gospel of Jesus with the Spirit (ROM 10:10) not the mind. So, while his Spirit is saved, his mind isn't. That's the cause of the wrong things he does. Its from the disconnection of his Spirit from his mind.
Never. No one is in Christ (accepted the gospel and lordship of Jesus) and goes to hell. Except he never accepted the gospel. Where is the gift if righteousness he has in his Spirit (ROM 5:16-17)? Where is the SEAL he has in Christ (Ephesians 4:30)? Where is the eternal inheritance we have in Him (Hebrews 9:15)? A Christian, one who believes the gospel of Jesus Christ and has accepted his Lordship, from all that I have gathered and gathering from careful study of the Bible, can not go to hell. His Spirit is saved and perfected. That Spirit can not go to hell. |
Re: Daddy Freeze Would Certainly End An Athiest Or Agnostic. Hardmirror's Opinion by OkCornel(m): 11:46am On Jan 18, 2018 |
damosky12: I still don't quite agree with your response on the example I gave on the theif who believes in Jesus... Anyways there's only one conclusion I can draw from these. When you and I see a symbol. It can be 6 to you, it can be 9 to me. But it doesn't change the fact that the symbol is the same thing we are looking at. Perhaps, a face to face discussion in 10 minutes or less can clear out the differences in our viewpoints. But at the end of the day, what counts is the way God sees it...and not the way we see it. By the way, the parameters for judging a successful child or baby cannot 100% apply in judging a successful man. Cheers and Jah bless you. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Daddy Freeze Would Certainly End An Athiest Or Agnostic. Hardmirror's Opinion by ScienceWatch: 3:08pm On Jan 18, 2018 |
OkCornel:Thank you kindly for clearing the air about the bolded(Red). I sense that you have a heart for the lost, Sir. It will be of great benefit and personal protection to true Christians to obey the wise biblical instruction; DO NOT THROW YOUR PEARLS OF WISDOM TO THE SWINE, THEY WILL TRAMPLE ON IT, THEN TURN AND REND YOU. Jesus said it this way, "THE harvest is ripe........ We know that a good farmer will not send his workers into the farm to pick unripe fruit. Only the ripe fruit will be picked. Atheists here are not ready for ultimate TRUTH. Those that are ripe can quickly see real life evidence of the superior power of ultimate TRUTH by viewing Emmanuel TV and others. 1 Like |
Re: Daddy Freeze Would Certainly End An Athiest Or Agnostic. Hardmirror's Opinion by OkCornel(m): 3:32pm On Jan 18, 2018 |
ScienceWatch: There's another perspective to it though. Atheists here may not be ready for the TRUTH yet because they are not ripe enough to...but I'm certain the open minded ones among them will get there. It's just that, when you feed a newborn baby...you don't force meat on the baby...rather, milk would be appropriate. I am still trying to connect the dots on the milk that can apply to an open minded atheist though. But, the answer will certainly come. If the Eternal Creator has not given up on them...neither will I relent. May His Spirit be with us all...now and always. Amen. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Daddy Freeze Would Certainly End An Athiest Or Agnostic. Hardmirror's Opinion by ScienceWatch: 4:04pm On Jan 18, 2018 |
damosky12:Yes, we witness daily the saving grace of faith. After that comes the works. Jesus said, "You will know them by their works." It is also written that, "Faith without works are dead." One can FAKE the Faith, but not the works. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Daddy Freeze Would Certainly End An Athiest Or Agnostic. Hardmirror's Opinion by ScienceWatch: 4:07pm On Jan 18, 2018 |
OkCornel:Excellent points Sir, May the Holy Spirit release His power through you for the glory of the creator God. |
Re: Daddy Freeze Would Certainly End An Athiest Or Agnostic. Hardmirror's Opinion by OkCornel(m): 4:52pm On Jan 18, 2018 |
ScienceWatch: AMEN! 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Daddy Freeze Would Certainly End An Athiest Or Agnostic. Hardmirror's Opinion by Julivas(m): 10:14pm On Jan 18, 2018 |
ScienceWatch: You are right sir. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Daddy Freeze Would Certainly End An Athiest Or Agnostic. Hardmirror's Opinion by ScienceWatch: 12:37pm On Jan 20, 2018 |
OkCornel:Thank you for taking the time to explain all this Sir. I know that it is extremely difficult to put spiritual experiences into words. I think you are doing a wonderful job. May the Holy Spirit continue to empower you in the light. I will go view your diary, thanks for sharing. Allow me to add something very, very powerful that the mighty Jesus Christ said to guide our thinking about unbelievers/Godhaters; 1)Have you ever wondered why many people have a hard time honoring Jesus? Here Jesus explains this problem very clearly. Joh 6:65 And Jesus said, I have said to you, that no one can come to me and believe the WORKS I am doing, except if the true God sends them to me. 2) Joh 5:22 For the true God judge no man, but has committed all judgment unto the Son: 3) Joh 5:23 That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who has sent him. 1 Like |
Re: Daddy Freeze Would Certainly End An Athiest Or Agnostic. Hardmirror's Opinion by OkCornel(m): 1:08pm On Jan 20, 2018 |
ScienceWatch: Permit me to meditate over your post. I'll be back this evening to continue from here. The human soul thirsts for three things: Truth, Unconditional Love and Fulfillment. Yeshua had these in unlimited quantities...he remains the brightest soul and example to learn from...then there are other lesser lights like Enoch, Bhudda e.t.c. We'll continue later today Thanks bro 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Daddy Freeze Would Certainly End An Athiest Or Agnostic. Hardmirror's Opinion by OkCornel(m): 4:20am On Jan 22, 2018 |
ScienceWatch: Sincere apologies for the longer than expected absence. Per the above, many people...including the god-haters and even "church-going" christians know Jesus...but a precious few understands Jesus. Anyone can have knowledge, but it takes the Spirit of the Eternal Creator to help understand what has been made known. For those who have understanding of the things Jesus lived and died for...I advise that do not relent, until the pure TRUTH has been made available to all men...including those who have hardened their hearts like stone to receive nothing and give out nothing. With the Spirit of the Almighty...everything is possible. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Daddy Freeze Would Certainly End An Athiest Or Agnostic. Hardmirror's Opinion by Niflheim(m): 11:22am On Jan 24, 2018 |
@Hardmirror, I must say, I have also been thinking what you have been thinking!!! This occurred to me, the day that Freeze asked how come out of over 2 million camera phones in Lagos, not a single witch flying has been captured on film(a typical question that non-believers have asked for years)!!! 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Daddy Freeze Would Certainly End An Athiest Or Agnostic. Hardmirror's Opinion by CAPSLOCKED: 11:28am On Jan 24, 2018 |
Niflheim: LOOK, THE MAN IS AN ATHEIST. HE'S ACTING CHRISTIAN SO THAT THE CHRISTIANS WILL ACTUALLY LISTEN TO HIM. MANY CHRISTIANS BELIEVE HIM NOW BECAUSE THEY SEE HIM AS A CHRISTIAN WHO IS AGAINST THE ILL WAYS OF THE MINISTERS. IF HE SAYS HE'S AN ATHEIST OPENLY CHRISTIANS WILL SAY HE'S AGAINST THE MINISTERS BECAUSE HE'S AGAINST CHRISTIANITY. YOU KNOW AN ATHEIST THE MOMENT YOU SPOT ONE. 8 Likes 3 Shares |
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