raumdeuter:


I don't know why basic things suddenly become rocket science.

Ronaldo and messi have the most scorer points in the team offense

Go and check premier league fantasy a system which attempt to rank players by their contribution and see where defenders in the league rank

so we can now use FANTASY points to judge a defender Fantasy wey be say you just need to score...issokay

raumdeuter:


How is this relevant? I would have asked what your level of education is, but being a Chelsea fan tell me all I need to know.

as expected Harvard Grad

Afolabi6046:
as expected Harvard Grad

Thats the difference in IQ

Afolabi6046:
so we can now use FANTASY points to judge a defender Fantasy wey be say you just need to score...issokay

That is an indicator. Keepers get points for clean sheets and saves, Defenders get points for clean sheets and goals scored which favors full backs,

raumdeuter:


That is an indicator. Keepers get points for clean sheets and saves, Defenders get points for clean sheets and goals scored which favors full backs,

Alonso:86 Walker:57...both fullbacks. Verdict: Alonso is miles better than Walker since the difference in point is large.

I hope you agree?

Afolabi6046:
Alonso:86 Walker:57...both fullbacks. Verdict: Alonso is miles better than Walker since the difference in point is large.

I hope you agree?

Now you'll have to use your eyes.

Afolabi6046:
Alonso:86 Walker:57...both fullbacks. Verdict: Alonso is miles better than Walker since the difference in point is large.

I hope you agree?

This is why common sense is required.
1. Alonso has played 180mins more than Walker and I dont think anyone will argue that Alonso is better than Walker

Unlimited22:
Now you'll have to use your eyes.

Is that not what an optometrist should be preaching?

raumdeuter:

This is why common sense is required.
1. Alonso has played 180mins more than Walker and I dont think anyone will argue that Alonso is better than Walker

Alonso would still be ahead nevertheless except you're telling me Walker would make 30+ points in just two matches.

Is Alonso better than Walker?

Afolabi6046:
Alonso would still be ahead nevertheless except you're telling me Walker would make 30+ points in just two matches.

Is Alonso better than Walker?

Unlimited22. Aside needing common sense, you have a patient who needs eyes too

You quoted the answer and you are still asking the same silly question

raumdeuter:


Unlimited22. Aside needing common sense, you have a patient who needs eyes too

You quoted the answer and you are still asking the same silly question

He wants you to say it

raumdeuter:


Did you read what you posted? You said

"Even if it is a coincidence that their defense became noticeably better upon his arrival due to his qualities or the improvement of those around him, most folks will still attribute it to his arrival considering his transfer fee"

So even if facts disagree with it, its what people think that matters?

Thats why I always stress critical reasoning and sifting the wheat from the chaff.

Last year Liverpool got to the CL final conceding 10 goals in 4 matches, Many people say VVD in defence was the reason they got to the final, Do you agree that VVD in a defence that conceded 10 goals in 4 games is the reason they made the final or instead the logical thing which is the fearsome attack that kept scoring non stop

Liverpool has 3 rookies in defence last year who have matured, One of them is regarded as the best LB in the league they now added the most expensive keeper in the world to it then you will say its VVD

Man utd is your team, If your offence is scoring more Martial Rashford Lukaku are the ones scoring more goals and creating more assists, we should still give the credit to Alexis because he was recently signed, and he is on the highest salary


Which leadership did he bring? The same fraudulent leadership they claimed Terry was bringing while doing nothing. It seems some people get swayed by all these activity forming on the field waving hand like traffic warden while not doing much

At United Sanchez is not a regular so, you can't say the same.
In football, we have the attack, midfield and defense so whether or not the attack is doing well, you still have to shore up your defense, the comparison here is Liverpool of the present vs Liverpool before the arrival of VVD which was better defensively? Definitely the present team so whether or not others around VVD have improved, you can't take it away from him s the leader of that defense just as no matter how well Suarez or Dybala plays, Messi and Ronaldo will always get the plaudits.
About their run to the final last year, the folks you're trying to misrepresent their comments opined that he improved their defense hence their run to the final, no where did they undermine the contribution of their attack. Let's be honest, if your remove VVD and replace him with Matip, then the chances of Liverpool getting the better of City over two legs will have been very slim.

raumdeuter:


Unlimited22. Aside needing common sense, you have a patient who needs eyes too

You quoted the answer and you are still asking the same silly question

I need you to reply clearly. We've proven that Alonso would eventually have more point than Walker, so is Alonso better than Walker?

raumdeuter:
nihilist once gave an analysis when people were saying Mourinho improved Man utd defence last season.

He showed that DDG was facing more shots and saving more shots than the average EPL top keeper

So how can we claim the Man utd defence improved when the keeper is still facing more shots.

That is critical reasoning and deduction not just following what people said

If na patrickmuf he will say it was Mourinho that arranged the defence to concede more shots that was responsible for less goals conceded or better still Man utd record defence signing Victor Lindelof

You can go back to that thread, I argued in favor of De Gea.

Afolabi6046:
ooh! you still dey hold that matter for mind....sorry o

I never disagreed that City usurped Liverpool in 2014...how can i forget when Ba started it all. Now go back and read what i've been trying to say.

P.S y'all should continue putting my matter for head, that's your headache

You are not that relevant

What you have been trying to say holds no relevance because the talk of "displacing " was centered on a particular season, it didn't take me 10 secs to get this, while you on the other hand, have been going round circles. Someone told you Liverpool were displaced by City in a season, and you are saying how can a team that have always been outta the top four be displaced. I am baffled by this complete show of confusion.

Carry on

patrickmuf:
At United Sanchez is not a regular so, you can't say the same.
In football, we have the attack, midfield and defense so whether or not the attack is doing well, you still have to shore up your defense, the comparison here is Liverpool of the present vs Liverpool before the arrival of VVD which was better defensively? Definitely the present team so whether or not others around VVD have improved, you can't take it away from him s the leader of that defense just as no matter how well Suarez or Dybala plays, Messi and Ronaldo will always get the plaudits.
About their run to the final last year, the folks you're trying to misrepresent their comments opined that he improved their defense hence their run to the final, no where did they undermine the contribution of their attack. Let's be honest, if your remove VVD and replace him with Matip, then the chances of Liverpool getting the better of City over two legs will have been very slim.

Liverpool before the arrival of VVD was playign Moreno, Matip Klavan and Karius. Almost all of these players have been shipped off the first team and replaced by young players and expensive transfers.

The difference from Liverpool of early last season to now is a world record keeper, a Robertson Gomez and TAA who have continued to develop and VVD

To attribute all the credit to VVD is false and illogical

Messi and Ronaldo get all the plaudits because they get the most scorer points in this teams. Unless Ronaldo gets the most scorer points when Juve wins the CL then he cannot be the reason they won

I asked you if Juve won the CL by strong defensive performances and scoring very little, will we still credit Ronaldo for it?

If Juve wins the CL with Dybala scoring 15, Costa assisting 13 while Ronaldo contributed 3 goals + assist will you still credit that to Ronaldo just because he was in the team

Last CL final match win, the credit went to Bale because he was the one who scored the winning goals not Ronaldo for leadership

2017 CL final match the credit went to Ronaldo because of what he did on the field not any leadership

Last year if you remove VVD vs City maybe they wnt even concede that silly goal they did over the 2 legs. Over 2 legs Liverpool attackers scored 5 goals vs City, Over 2 legs vs Roma they scored 7 goals. Thats 12 goals in 2 games conceding 7

So how will a team that scored 13 and conceded 10 over 4 games claim it was defence that helped ?

Afolabi6046:
I need you to reply clearly. We've proven that Alonso would eventually have more point than Walker, so is Alonso better than Walker?

Read my post and get understanding. No one is going to spoonfeed you, Wanting to be spoonfed is why you are still at this shekpe level of reasoning

patrickmuf:
You can go back to that thread, I argued in favor of De Gea.

So how can you be arguing against the same logic now?

Why didn't you say it was Mourinho who improved the defence or that it was the new big money signing Lindelof that made the defence better when it was obvious that DDG was the one doing the heavy lifting

raumdeuter:


Liverpool before the arrival of VVD was playign Moreno, Matip Klavan and Karius. Almost all of these players have been shipped off the first team and replaced by young players and expensive transfers.

The difference from Liverpool of early last season to now is a world record keeper, a Robertson Gomez and TAA who have continued to develop and VVD

To attribute all the credit to VVD is false and illogical

Messi and Ronaldo get all the plaudits because they get the most scorer points in this teams. Unless Ronaldo gets the most scorer points when Juve wins the CL then he cannot be the reason they won

I asked you if Juve won the CL by strong defensive performances and scoring very little, will we still credit Ronaldo for it?

If Juve wins the CL with Dybala scoring 15, Costa assisting 13 while Ronaldo contributed 3 goals + assist will you still credit that to Ronaldo just because he was in the team

Whoever is attributing it all to VVD, why do you like misrepresenting people? It's not fair.
Now, I noticed you deliberately left out Clyne who has just been unlucky with injury, TAA only came into the team because of his absence. Also, Moreno has been binned for the past few seasons for Milner and later, Robertson so it is mischievous for you to talk about Liverpool's defense and include Moreno who is has not been a regular for sometime.
Liverpool's defense before the arrival of VVD had Robertson on the left, Matip and Lovren through the middle and TAA at LB.
When VVD came in, he replaced Matip and that was the major change in their defense prior to this summer when Allison came in to replace Karius and Gomez took the place of Lovren who struggled with injury earlier in the campaign. The only significant changes have been VVD and Allison. Now, if you are asked who is to be credited for such marked improvement in their defense will you say nobody (collective effort)? If yes, then why was Vidic so highly rated when he had Rio, Neville and Evra with VDS between the sticks?
Why is Ramos so highly rated or Varane when they play alongside other great defenders? In your bid to throw mud at VVD you suddenly recognize that TAA is that good, Robertson and Gomez are all exceptional when in all honesty, only Robertson is good enough to have a look in that back 4 bar VVD.

If we praise Messi and Ronaldo for scoring the most goals, why then shouldn't we single out a defender for praises for his aerial domination, blocks, tackles and leadership qualities from the back?

patrickmuf:
Whoever is attributing it all to VVD, why do you like misrepresenting people? It's not fair.
Now, I noticed you deliberately left out Clyne who has just been unlucky with injury, TAA only came into the team because of his absence. Also, Moreno has been binned for the past few seasons for Milner and later, Robertson so it is mischievous for you to talk about Liverpool's defense and include Moreno who is has not been a regular for sometime.
Liverpool's defense before the arrival of VVD had Robertson on the left, Matip and Lovren through the middle and TAA at LB.
When VVD came in, he replaced Matip and that was the major change in their defense prior to this summer when Allison came in to replace Karius and Gomez took the place of Lovren who struggled with injury earlier in the campaign. The only significant changes have been VVD and Allison. Now, if you are asked who is to be credited for such marked improvement in their defense will you say nobody (collective effort)? If yes, then why was Vidic so highly rated when he had Rio, Neville and Evra with VDS between the sticks?
Why is Ramos so highly rated or Varane when they play alongside other great defenders? In your bid to throw mud at VVD you suddenly recognize that TAA is that good, Robertson and Gomez are all exceptional when in all honesty, only Robertson is good enough to have a look in that back 4 bar VVD.

If we praise Messi and Ronaldo for scoring the most goals, why then shouldn't we single out a defender for praises for his aerial domination, blocks, tackles and leadership qualities from the back?

You said I am misrepresenting you but tell me what is the purpose of your past 6 post? Is it not to tell us that the Leadership of VVD is why Liverpool is conceding less?

Ok from what you said. Liverpool was playing Milner as a makeshift LB but changed him to Robertson, they were playing Lovren Matip and Klavan which they changed to Gomez and VVD, they were playing TAA who was new and playing some of his first senior games.

Now they have a world record keeper in their ranks yet all you have wanted us to believe all the while is that the defence improved because of VVD

Not because of world record keeper, not because of Robertson, not because of TAA who has improved and had several outstanding performances vs top opponents including Sane and even Ronaldo. Its because of VVD

Messi and Ronaldo get the credit because of what they show on the field

Last CL final match win, the credit went to Bale because he was the one who scored the winning goals not Ronaldo for leadership

2017 CL final match the credit went to Ronaldo because of what he did on the field not any leadership

Some kind arguments dey make person look like who dey lonely. VVD not relevant to liverpool's backline. Wonders shall never end

What do we make up of this?

raumdeuter:


So how can you be arguing against the same logic now?

Why didn't you say it was Mourinho who improved the defence or that it was the new big money signing Lindelof that made the defence better when it was obvious that DDG was the one doing the heavy lifting

How many games did Lindelof play? VVD is a constant in that Liverpool defence, same can't be said of Lindelof at United...

raumdeuter:


You said I am misrepresenting you but tell me what is the purpose of your past 6 post? Is it not to tell us that the Leadership of VVD is why Liverpool is conceding less?

Ok from what you said. Liverpool was playing Milner as a makeshift LB but changed him to Robertson, they were playing Lovren Matip and Klavan which they changed to Gomez and VVD, they were playing TAA who was new and playing some of his first senior games.

Now they have a world record keeper in their ranks yet all you have wanted us to believe all the while is that the defence improved because of VVD

Not because of world record keeper, not because of Robertson, not because of TAA who has improved and had several outstanding performances vs top opponents including Sane and even Ronaldo. Its because of VVD

Messi and Ronaldo get the credit because of what they show on the field

Last CL final match win, the credit went to Bale because he was the one who scored the winning goals not Ronaldo for leadership

2017 CL final match the credit went to Ronaldo because of what he did on the field not any leadership

So, you have not been watching VVD on the field? You laid claims to the over 10 goals Liverpool conceded but when Airmark asked you to highlight just 5 goals that was directly caused by VVD you retracted.
If you don't want to give VVD his due accolades citing the marked improvements of others around him, why should we recognize the contributions of Boateng, Vidic, Ramos, Puyol etc Didn't they have even better team mates than VVD currently have at Pool?

Leyqute:


He wants you to say it

Wanting people to spoonfeed them is why people dont think for themselves. There is something called deductive reasoning

patrickmuf:
So, you have not been watching VVD on the field? You laid claims to the over 10 goals Liverpool conceded but when Airmark asked you to highlight just 5 goals that was directly caused by VVD you retracted.
If you don't want to give VVD his due accolades citing the marked improvements of others around him, why should we recognize the contributions of Boateng, Vidic, Ramos, Puyol etc Didn't they have even better team mates than VVD currently have at Pool?

When goals are conceded its not VVD fault, when goals are not conceded its VVD work and leadership

Where was this leadership when 10 goals were conceded in 4 games abi na only when they keep clean sheets that VVD is responsible

Boateng Vidic Ramos Puyol have activities on the fiield defensive ones when their team was playing not pointing to bogus leadership


All these 4 players won the CL
Boateng in 2013 in the last 4 games Boateng played Juve, Barca and Dortmund and conceded 1 goal from a penalty
Ramos in 2014 in the last 4 games Ramos played Bayern Dortmund and Atletico conceded 3 goals
Ramos in 2016 in the last 4 games Ramos played Wolfsburg Bayern and Atletico and conceded 1 goal
Vidic won the CL in 2008 in his last 4 games vs Roma, Barcelona and Chelsea Vidic conceded 1 goal
Puyol won the CL in 2009 in the last 4 games Barca conceded 1 goal

VVD got to the final in the last 4 games conceded 10 goals

Can you spot the difference? 10 goal in 4 games

patrickmuf:
How many games did Lindelof play? VVD is a constant in that Liverpool defence, same can't be said of Lindelof at United...

If its not Lindelof should we credit Smalling or Jones rather than DDG that was making the saves

eph12:
What do we make up of this?

ask patrikmuf afolabi

raumdeuter:


If its not Lindelof should we credit Smalling or Jones rather than DDG that was making the saves

How many shots on goal does De Gea make per game compared to Allison or rather, how many shots on goal has Allison had to deal with compared to Karius without VVD?

raumdeuter:


ask patrikmuf afolabi

Played less yet he dominates in the stats which are crucial when analyzing a CB.

In your other post, you talk about Boateng, Puyol, Vidic in comparison to the number of goals their respective teams conceded but you forgotten they didn't play alongside average Joe's and inexperienced colleagues...Those team they played in were at some point the best in the world and went on to dominate their domestic leagues, same can't be said of Liverpool who are not even the best in England.

patrickmuf:
Played less yet he dominates in the stats which are crucial when analyzing a CB.

In your other post, you talk about Boateng, Puyol, Vidic in comparison to the number of goals their respective teams conceded but you forgotten they didn't play alongside average Joe's and inexperienced colleagues...Those team they played in were at some point the best in the world and went on to dominate their domestic leagues, same can't be said of Liverpool who are not even the best in England.

Boateng in 2013 played alongside Dante and a 20yr old Alaba