herlecks:
That's a deception, sir. Jesus is and was and will be the Word Yahweh speaks throughout eternity, either directly or by His prophets. But of course, His Word carries His personality. What I speak is what I am.

I don't know the essence of this thread if you agree with the above statement.

Is the Word of God not God Himself?

If the word carries His PERSONALITY, does that mean the Word is less than God Himself?

jcross19:
Catholic where the one that formulated all those things of equaling Jesus with God . the way they are exalting mary . just bring biblical where Jesus said is God period.

Catholic did not hold all bible script, they only had doc to the right of the chart if you know about bible origin. It is not catholic's doctrine.

Isce:


Catholic did not hold all bible script, they only had doc to the right of the chart if you know about bible origin. It is not catholic's doctrine.

I laugh again!! Well go and make research about compilation of bible from the scratches . who
is constantine and his impact on bible . roman Catholic remain the pathfinder of bible we read today.

..

Send you study links and I will send you mine so that we can compare facts on this issue of bible origins

Send you study links and I will send you mine so that we can compare facts on this issue of bible origins. I think it might help

Send me your study links

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNv-zzpIwBs

Start with this

Emusan:


I don't know the essence of this thread if you agree with the above statement.

Is the Word of God not God Himself?

If the word carries His PERSONALITY, does that mean the Word is less than God Himself?

It was recorded that the Word was with God, and that the Word was a God. The Word was begotten in eternity, He was the Son of God. God cannot be with Himself, right? The Word is another person, the Word belongs to the Father, and He, the Word of the Father, carries the qualities and personality of the Father, the Father expresses Himself through the Word or Son. The Father is called God and Ancient of Days and the Father of Spirits, The Son of God is called the Word of God or the Son of man. This Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us, according to scripture. This is the Word of God, even our Lord Jesus. ;

Revelation 19:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Now this Word or Son of God says, the Father is my God;

Revelation 3:12; Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. If Jesus was equal with the Father, would the Father be His God? The again, the Son shall be subject unto the Father at the end of this world and He shall return the kingdom unto the Father;

1 Corinthians 15:27-28; For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

herlecks:
It was recorded that the Word was with God, and that the Word was a God. The Word was begotten in eternity, He was the Son of God. God cannot be with Himself, right? The Word is another person, the Word belongs to the Father, and He, the Word of the Father, carries the qualities and personality of the Father, the Father expresses Himself through the Word or Son. The Father is called God and Ancient of Days and the Father of Spirits, The Son of God is called the Word of God or the Son of man. This Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us, according to scripture. This is the Word of God, even our Lord Jesus. ;

Revelation 19:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Now this Word or Son of God says, the Father is my God;

Revelation 3:12; Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. If Jesus was equal with the Father, would the Father be His God? The again, the Son shall be subject unto the Father at the end of this world and He shall return the kingdom unto the Father;

1 Corinthians 15:27-28; For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

ALL these lying Pharisees simply pay lip service to Jesus the son of God, deep down in their hearts they don't really believe that Jesus is the son of God who told his followers he worships "my Father and your Father, my God and your God" on earth ( John 20:17) and in heaven ( Rev3:5,12,14,21).

Rather ,they worship their Trinity Godhead where Jesus is their star attraction.

UceeGod:


Jesus, in response to the Pharisees’ question “Who do you think you are?” said, “‘Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.’ ‘You are not yet fifty years old,’ the Jews said to him, ‘and you have seen Abraham!’ ‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds” (John 8:56–59 ). The violent response of the Jews to Jesus’ “I AM” statement indicates they clearly understood what He was declaring—that He was the eternal God incarnate. Jesus was equating Himself with the "I AM" title God gave Himself in Exodus 3:14 .

Isce twisting the holy scriptures.
You claim " I am" statement is an allusion to Trinity .
Paul said :"I am what I am.. (1Cor15:10) as in Exodus 3:14, that means apostle Paul is God incarnate going by your wacky twist of the scriptures.
*Abraham said I am- Gen 22:11
* Moses said i am -Exodus3:4
* Jesus disciples said I am-Matt26:22
* The beggar said I am- John 9:9
Therefore they are God incarnates going by your fictitious claims.

Janosky:


ALL these lying Pharisees simply pay lip service to Jesus the son of God, deep down in their hearts they don't really believe that Jesus is the son of God who told his followers he worships "my Father and your Father, my God and your God" on earth ( John 20:17) and in heaven ( Rev3:5,12,14,21).

Rather ,they worship their Trinity Godhead where Jesus is their star attraction.

It takes deep humility of heart to receive this revelation, that Trinity doctrine is false. When I first saw it I argued with God.

Then whenever I wanted to pray after receiving that truth, the Holy Spirit always pressed me to pray to the Father and worship the Father, but in Jesus name.

Isce:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNv-zzpIwBs

Start with this

Abeg dump that Youtube thrash for dustbin.
The extensive research of the duo of Westcott & Hort gave exposure to the corruption of 1John5:7, Rev1:11 1Tim3:16 ,Col 2:9 etc but Christendom paid them back by spreading libelous and defamatory slander against both men.
At no time did the clergy class present evidence to disprove the solid textual proof of these great scholars other than to attack their character and personality with defamation.

Isce:


These ideals took sleep from your eye~~~~~ This is where we stand and believe, do not fool us by your satanic JW believed. Charles wrote a bible for you, that is your ordeal and cross

The New World Translation (NWT) is defined by the Jehovah's Witnesses’ parent organization (the Watchtower Society) as "a translation of the Holy Scriptures made directly from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek into modern-day English by a committee of anointed witnesses of Jehovah." The NWT is the anonymous work of the “New World Bible Translation Committee.” Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that the anonymity is in place so that the credit for the work will go to God. Of course, this has the added benefit of keeping the translators from any accountability for their errors and prevents real scholars from checking their academic credentials.

The New World Translation is unique in one thing – it is the first intentional, systematic effort at producing a complete version of the Bible that is edited and revised for the specific purpose of agreeing with a group's doctrine. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society realized that their beliefs contradicted Scripture. So, rather than conforming their beliefs to Scripture, they altered Scripture to agree with their beliefs. The “New World Bible Translation Committee” went through the Bible and changed any Scripture that did not agree with Jehovah’s Witness theology. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that, as new editions of the New World Translation were published, additional changes were made to the biblical text. As biblical Christians continued to point out Scriptures that clearly argue for the deity of Christ (for example), the Watchtower Society would publish new editions of the New World Translation with those Scriptures changed. Here are some of the more prominent examples of intentional revisions:

The New World Translation renders the Greek term word staur ("cross" as "torture stake" because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe that Jesus was crucified on a cross. The New World Translation does not translate the Greek words sheol, hades, gehenna, and tartarus as "hell” because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in hell. The NWT gives the translation "presence" instead of “coming” for the Greek word parousia because Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ has already returned in the early 1900s. In Colossians 1:16, the NWT inserts the word “other” despite its being completely absent from the original Greek text. It does this to give the view that “all other things” were created by Christ, instead of what the text says, “all things were created by Christ.” This is to go along with their belief that Christ is a created being, which they believe because they deny the Trinity.

The most well-known of all the New World Translation perversions is John 1:1. The original Greek text reads, “the Word was God.” The NWT renders it as “the word was a god.” This is not a matter of correct translation, but of reading one's preconceived theology into the text, rather than allowing the text to speak for itself. There is no indefinite article in Greek (in English, "a" or "an", so any use of an indefinite article in English must be added by the translator. This is grammatically acceptable, so long as it does not change the meaning of the text.

There is a good reason why theos has no definite article in John 1:1 and why the New World Translation rendering is in error. There are THREE GENERAL RULES we need to understand to see why.

1) In Greek, word order does not determine word usage like it does in English. In English, a sentence is structured according to word order: Subject - Verb - Object. Thus, "Harry called the dog" is not equivalent to "the dog called Harry." But in Greek, a word's function is determined by the case ending found attached to the word's root. There are two case endings for the root theo: one is -s (theos), the other is -n (theon). The -s ending normally identifies a noun as being the subject of a sentence, while the -n ending normally identifies a noun as the direct object.

2) When a noun functions as a predicate nominative (in English, a noun that follows a being verb such as "is", its case ending must match the noun's case that it renames, so that the reader will know which noun it is defining. Therefore, theo must take the -s ending because it is renaming logos. Therefore, John 1:1 transliterates to "kai theos en ho logos." Is theos the subject, or is logos? Both have the -s ending. The answer is found in the next rule.

3) In cases where two nouns appear, and both take the same case ending, the author will often add the definite article to the word that is the subject in order to avoid confusion. John put the definite article on logos (“the Word”) instead of on theos. So, logos is the subject, and theos is the predicate nominative. In English, this results in John 1:1 being read as "and the Word was God" (instead of "and God was the word".

The most revealing evidence of the Watchtower's bias is their inconsistent translation technique. Throughout the Gospel of John, the Greek word theon occurs without a definite article. The New World Translation renders none of these as “a god.” Just three verses after John 1:1, the New World Translation translates another case of theos without the indefinite article as "God." Even more inconsistent, in John 1:18, the NWT translates the same term as both "God" and "god" in the very same sentence.

The Watchtower, therefore, has no hard textual grounds for their translation—only their own theological bias. While New World Translation defenders might succeed in showing that John 1:1 can be translated as they have done, they cannot show that it is the proper translation. Nor can they explain the fact that that the NWT does not translate the same Greek phrases elsewhere in the Gospel of John the same way. It is only the pre-conceived heretical rejection of the deity of Christ that forces the Watchtower Society to inconsistently translate the Greek text, thus allowing their error to gain some semblance of legitimacy in the minds of those ignorant of the facts.

It is only the Watchtower's pre-conceived heretical beliefs that are behind the dishonest and inconsistent translation that is the New World Translation. The New World Translation is most definitely not a valid version of God’s Word. There are minor differences among all the major English translations of the Bible. No English translation is perfect. However, while other Bible translators make minor mistakes in the rendering of the Hebrew and Greek text into English, the NWT intentionally changes the rendering of the text to conform to Jehovah’s Witness theology. The New World Translation is a perversion, not a version, of the Bible.

FRAUDULENT CLAIMS of Isce.
Lies and fiction.
Copyright thief wey you be dey steal another man work come paste am for Nairaland as if na you get am.
Copy copy thief thief.
You can't even explain what you stole from some one else. You no go fit do am sef

herlecks:
Then whenever I wanted to pray after receiving that truth, the Holy Spirit always pressed me to pray to the Father and worship the Father, but in Jesus name.

This experience has nothing's to do with Trinity, the Holy Spirit is not to be worshipped, his role is to reveal deep things of God to us and to lead us in the path of righteousness. So whether you access the father through Jesus Christ which is Ok, doesn't dismiss what Trinity is.

Trinity means God in operation in these three form. You can not do without this three or by cott the channel ~~ The Holy Spirit, The Son and The Father,


Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness

Isce:
John 14:20, 28 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father:
for my Father is greater than I.

You are truly blind to the truth.

** 1) "I am in my Father." you based your Trinity on that statement.

" Ye in me,and I in you" meaning that Jesus disciples is God , going by your claim in (1) above, "Ye in me ,and I in you" shows that the disciples is one with Jesus. That is Jesus disciples is God !
That's the Proof of Isce wacky twisting of the holy scriptures.

Janosky:

FRAUDULENT CLAIMS of Isce.
Lies and fiction.
Copyright thief wey you be dey steal another man work come paste am for Nairaland as if na you get am.
Copy copy thief thief.
You can't even explain what you stole from some one else. You no go fit do am sef

These~~overwhelmed your usual debate. Sorry for hurting you this much, it wasn't intensional. I wasn't targeting your person, only the cult JW system. I didn't know you "had" JW DNA and is willing to die for it, I'm really sorry

herlecks:
It was recorded that the Word was with God, and that the Word was a God.

You agreed that your word is your own self.

Why then the Word of God not God Himself

The word was (a) God, what is the different between a God and God?

A man or man, what's the different!

The Word was begotten in eternity, He was the Son of God. God cannot be with Himself, right?

So you mean there was a time God couldn't speak until He begat His own word...interesting!

The Word is another person, the Word belongs to the Father,

From above you said, the word was begotten from eternity then said the word is a PERSON and also BELONG TO THE FATHER...This shows that you people know the truth but always bend it as your father the devil wants you to.

The word of God belongs to God and nothing else.

He, the Word of the Father, carries the qualities and personality of the Father, the Father expresses Himself through the Word or Son. The Father is called God and Ancient of Days and the Father of Spirits,

Is the word of God different from God Himself

If the word has quality and personality of the Father, doesn't that tell you that the word has what makes God God yet not the same as The Father?

This is what the blessed apostle Paul affirmated in Phil 2

The Son of God is called the Word of God or the Son of man. This Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us, according to scripture. This is the Word of God, even our Lord Jesus.

If an entity has the quality and personality of human, automatically the entity will be called human.

Like I said, there's no need for this thread after you made all these statements.

Janosky:


You are truly blind to the truth.

** 1) "I am in my Father." you based your Trinity on that statement.

" Ye in me,and I in you" meaning that Jesus disciples is God , going by your claim in (1) above, "Ye in me ,and I in you" shows that the disciples is one with Jesus. That is Jesus disciples is God !
That's the Proof of Isce wacky twisting of the holy scriptures.

Please sorry once again, I didn't come here to improved you but to share a light to this thread. I know much has hit you, but don't be so bruised. My contribution here are open to correction so don't read me, what is important is the one that needs the help and not you lust in yourself.

When we get to heaven are we going to see 1 person or 3 persons?

cc. Jcross19, herlecks, Janosky

I don't need Janosky fall for me to rise, I am original and know my stand in any topic I find worth contributing and I seek time also to consider all opinions that might improve mine.

God bless you, I am you brother, non of us witness these, we are here to learn.

As I mentioned earlier, the Trinity says ~

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

and man came out with a body, soul and spirit.

Hope this help

.

Janosky:


Isce twisting the holy scriptures.
You claim " I am" statement is an allusion to Trinity .
Paul said :"I am what I am.. (1Cor15:10) as in Exodus 3:14, that means apostle Paul is God incarnate going by your wacky twist of the scriptures.
*Abraham said I am- Gen 22:11
* Moses said i am -Exodus3:4
* Jesus disciples said I am-Matt26:22
* The beggar said I am- John 9:9
Therefore they are God incarnates going by your fictitious claims.

Let me repeat it again, so you may get it;

Jesus' response "I am" simply means He was the God of the old testament. There is no doubt that the Jews understood what He was saying because they took up stones to kill Him for making Himself equal with God ( John 5:18 ). Such a statement, if not true, was blasphemy and the punishment prescribed by the Mosaic Law was death ( Leviticus 24:11–14 ). But Jesus committed no blasphemy; He was and is God, the second Person of the Godhead, equal to the Father in every way.

UceeGod:



The problem you anti-Trinity preachers are having is Jesus' continued reference to His Father and also the Comforter, yet you all ignore the fact that God is One and has the power to exist in different forms and locations at the same time.

Even though the Father is greater than the Son in position (especially in regard to the incarnation), yet the Father is not greater than the Son in essence or being; They are both equally God.

According to your first paragraph above," you ignored the fact that God is one" UceeGod LIED .
"Hear O Isreal; Yahweh our God is one Yahweh" Deu 6:4. ( See the hebrew interlinear transcription of Deu6:4).
Yahweh is the Most High God (Ps83:18) and the only true God (John17:3) if you clearly understand English, you know what it means.

** Your very last sentence, 2nd paragraph "Both are equally God".
Man is a god ,(Ps 82:1,6 kJV), Jesus is a god (John 10:34-36.) angels are gods in heaven, 1Cor8:5 , Jesus himself nailed the coffin on your fictitious claims in John 17:3 and Rev 3:5,12,14,21.
Eph 1:3. 3:14,15 Only Yahweh is the only true God to whom everyone in heaven and earth owes it's name.
Jesus said Yahweh granted life to him,( Jesus) Yahweh's son- John 5:26.

Receive sense.

Emusan:


You agreed that your word is your own self.

Why then the Word of God not God Himself

The word was (a) God, what is the different between a God and God?

A man or man, what's the different!



So you mean there was a time God couldn't speak until He begat His own word...interesting!



From above you said, the word was begotten from eternity then said the word is a PERSON and also BELONG TO THE FATHER...This shows that you people know the truth but always bend it as your father the devil wants you to.

The word of God belongs to God and nothing else.



Is the word of God different from God Himself

If the word has quality and personality of the Father, doesn't that tell you that the word has what makes God God yet not the same as The Father?

This is what the blessed apostle Paul affirmated in Phil 2



If an entity has the quality and personality of human, automatically the entity will be called human.

Like I said, there's no need for this thread after you made all these statements.

This is how humans fall into error, when they have no scriptural backup for their "ideas." I'll be discussing scriptures alone, not your thoughts. I gave you scriptures but you're hellbent on your ideas which does not really matter to me. If you will not believe the verses in my reply to your comment then nothing will convince you of the truth. You will do well to wait on God and pray for revelation.

Agrogbeide:
When we get to heaven are we going to see 1 person or 3 persons?

cc. Jcross19, herlecks, Janosky

go and read the book of revelation , tell me who is the God and the lamb ?

Janosky:


According to your first paragraph above," you ignored the fact that God is one" UceeGod LIED .
"Hear O Isreal; Yahweh our God is one Yahweh" Deu 6:4. ( See the hebrew interlinear transcription of Deu6:4).
Yahweh is the Most High God (Ps83:18) and the only true God (John17:3) if you clearly understand English, you know what it means.

** Your very last sentence, 2nd paragraph "Both are equally God".
Man is a god ,(Ps 82:1,6 kJV), Jesus is a god (John 10:34-36.) angels are gods in heaven, 1Cor8:5 , Jesus himself nailed the coffin on your fictitious claims in John 17:3 and Rev 3:5,12,14,21.
Eph 1:3. 3:14,15 Only Yahweh is the only true God to whom everyone in heaven and earth owes it's name.
Jesus said Yahweh granted life to him,( Jesus) Yahweh's son- John 5:26.

Receive sense.

Ask the initiator of this thread his current stand on this matter. Go and open a thread for Non existence of Trinity so we can bring our facts there.

Be delivering from Satanic aguementing spirit and the spirit of debate from Charles in Jesus name****†************†

There's a confusion about all these, that the term "God, god" is not a person but a generalized term or rather an essence, not the person. The person of the "God" we serve is the Father or the Ancient of Days, and the person of His Son is the Word of God. Humans, angels and demons are called god in scripture. God as a term is only used in reference to a spiritual or divine or supreme being. When they say, "and the Word was a God or was God," does that mean the person of the Word is the person of the Father? Not at all. Is my word or spirit subject to me? Of course! If the Father begat the Word, doesn't that make the Word subject to Him? Again, this is a distinction between the Father and His Word or Son.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

An unrenewed mind will distort this truth.

Every event that occurred in heaven recorded in scripture always have "God and the Lamb or Ancient of Days and the Son of man." Judge for yourself.

herlecks:
There's a confusion about all these, that the term "God, god" is not a person but a generalized term or rather an essence, not the person. The person of the "God" we serve is the Father or the Ancient of Days, and the person of His Son is the Word of God. Humans, angels and demons are called god in scripture. God as a term is only used in reference to a spiritual or divine or supreme being. When they say, "and the Word was a God or was God," does that mean the person of the Word is the person of the Father? Not at all. Is my word or spirit subject to me? Of course! If the Father begat the Word, doesn't that make the Word subject to Him? Again, this is a distinction between the Father and His Word or Son.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

An unrenewed mind will distort this truth.

Go to a police station, ask them for a tape recorder, the say you will kill them all in the next seven day, then see if you will walk away and say the words are not yours but someone else's