Matthew 7:21-22 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

From the bible we learnt that the seven sons of sceva could not cast out demons.

Acts 19:13-16 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

The answer lies in the verse below

Luke 9:49-50 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

As long as one is not against Christ he can cast out demons in his name.

A non believer can not cast out a demon but satan can decieve a non christian into thinking he is casting out a demon in the name of Jesus Just to continue his unrighteous works.

False prophets and false miracle workers through the empowerment of the devil could seem to cast out a devil but in reality the devil is only deceiving ungodly people into error and false teachings thinking they have the backing of God in their works of unrighteousness.

solite3:


As long as one is not against Christ he can cast out demons in his name.

Progressive, coming from you solite3.

An atheist doctor casting out demons is casting demons out in Christ's name, just that most don't understand Christ in that sense, since most focus on the body and know Christ not in Spirit nor why Christ is the Word. No wonder camels get through needle eyes much easier than many. It must be difficult for some to imagine what (or who) might be screaming out on top of the wall in the open public square and at the city gate.

The simple will love their simple ways, I suppose, delighting in mockery and hating knowledge.

solite3:
A non believer can not cast out a demon but satan can decieve a non christian into thinking he is casting out a demon in the name of Jesus Just to continue his unrighteous works.

But then, I guess I was hasty with you progressing!

budaatum:


Progressive, coming from you solite3.

An atheist doctor casting out demons is casting demons out in Christ's name, just that most don't understand Christ in that sense, since most focus on the body and know Christ not in Spirit nor why Christ is the Word. No wonder camels get through needle eyes much easier than many. It must be difficult for some to imagine what (or who) might be screaming out on top of the wall in the open public square and at the city gate.

The simple will love their simple ways, I suppose, delighting in mockery and hating knowledge.

An atheist is someone who does not believe in the existence of God, so pray tell how can an atheist pray in the name of someone who he does not believe exist.

There is no different understanding of whom Christ is!
If you dont believe who Jesus say he is and what he came for in the bible, then you have the wrong christ.

budaatum:

But then, I guess I was hasty with you progressing!

Budaatum repent and believe on Jesus Christ as your only saviour! Dont perish because of pride

solite3:
An atheist is someone who does not believe in the existence of God, so pray tell how can an atheist pray in the name of someone who he does not believe exist.

There is no different understanding of whom Christ is!
If you dont believe who Jesus say he is and what he came for in the bible, then you have the wrong christ.

Your limited understanding of 'pray' limits you which is why you cannot conceive that an atheist doctor heals you with prayer. You also don't know that even becoming a doctor involves "accepting Christ", perhaps because you have no understanding of how Christ is the Word, or what it means.

I guess since they don't cry "Lord Lord" like you do they must "perish because of pride", but thankfully, God alone is the judge of all.

Being a believer means you have accepted that Jesus is the son of God, that he died on Calvary, and that he is risen. It also means that your faith is hinged on the power of the cross and what Christ did on it.
This belief and faith is what gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work in our lives. In other words, the Holy Ghost (by whose power demons are cast out) only works within the parameters of your belief and faith in Christ.

Thus to answer your question, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a non-believer to cast out demons in the name of a Jesus Christ whom he/she neither believes nor has faith in.

Someone who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ and automatically does not accept him will now cast out demons in the same name of Jesus??


Christianity is clear but human foolishness complicates it. No offence to the OP please.

solite3:
Matthew 7:21-22 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

From the bible we learnt that the seven sons of sceva could not cast out demons.

Acts 19:13-16 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

The answer lies in the verse below

Luke 9:49-50 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

As long as one is not against Christ he can cast out demons in his name.

The Matthew account you quoted stated that some will say they cast out demons by the use of Jesus' name. Do you imagine that these were believers? They are not.

A believer is not just one that profess belief in Jesus. If one is not a true disciple of Christ, he is an unbeliever.

missjo:
Being a believer means you have accepted that Jesus is the son of God, that he died on Calvary, and that he is risen. It also means that your faith is hinged on the power of the cross and what Christ did on it.
This belief and faith is what gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work in our lives. In other words, the Holy Ghost (by whose power demons are cast out) only works within the parameters of your belief and faith in Christ.

Thus to answer your question, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a non-believer to cast out demons in the name of a Jesus Christ whom he/she neither believes nor has faith in.

there are people who do not believe that Jesus died for their sins yet they call Jesus Lord.

missjo:
Being a believer means you have accepted that Jesus is the son of God, that he died on Calvary, and that he is risen. It also means that your faith is hinged on the power of the cross and what Christ did on it.
This belief and faith is what gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work in our lives. In other words, the Holy Ghost (by whose power demons are cast out) only works within the parameters of your belief and faith in Christ.

Thus to answer your question, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a non-believer to cast out demons in the name of a Jesus Christ whom he/she neither believes nor has faith in.

And yet, there is one, "not one of them", casting out demons in Christ name. One should wonder how.

iSlayer:
Someone who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ and automatically does not accept him will now cast out demons in the same name of Jesus??


Christianity is clear but human foolishness complicates it. No offence to the OP please.

yes people who want to make money with the name of Jesus

JMAN05:


The Matthew account you quoted stated that some will say they cast out demons by the use of Jesus' name. Do you imagine that these were believers? They are not.

A believer is not just one that profess belief in Jesus. If one is not a true disciple of Christ, he is an unbeliever.

you are correct that a believer is a disciple but we also have false believers. Those who call Jesus Lord with the lips but deny him un their heart

missjo:
Being a believer means you have accepted that Jesus is the son of God, that he died on Calvary, and that he is risen. It also means that your faith is hinged on the power of the cross and what Christ did on it.
This belief and faith is what gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work in our lives. In other words, the Holy Ghost (by whose power demons are cast out) only works within the parameters of your belief and faith in Christ.

Thus to answer your question, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a non-believer to cast out demons in the name of a Jesus Christ whom he/she neither believes nor has faith in.

solite3:
there are people who do not believe that Jesus died for their sins yet they call Jesus Lord.

budaatum:
And yet, there is one, "not one of them", casting out demons in Christ name. One should wonder how.

"²²Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name,
and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
²³Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’"
- Matthew 7:22-23

[img]https://s3/images/ObamaMuttley.gif[/img]
OK then, who are the people in Matthew 7:22 above then that did exploits in Jesus' name, like casting out demons etcetera missjo?

Let me ask you a simple easy straighforward and direct question missjo, and that is:
Is it impossible to not comply with workings of the law of gravity when jumping off a skyscraper without much of having a parachute, at the very least strapped on, taking into account, you dont believe in, dont have faith and/or belief in the law of gravity, erhn?

Who is this devil everyone is casting out in Nigeria.


The earlier we start thinking in this country the better.

solite3:
Matthew 7:21-22 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

From the bible we learnt that the seven sons of sceva could not cast out demons.

Acts 19:13-16 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

The answer lies in the verse below

Luke 9:49-50 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

As long as one is not against Christ he can cast out demons in his name.

solite3:
A non believer can not cast out a demon but satan can decieve a non christian into thinking he is casting out a demon in the name of Jesus Just to continue his unrighteous works.

False prophets and false miracle workers through the empowerment of the devil could seem to cast out a devil but in reality the devil is only deceiving ungodly people into error and false teachings thinking they have the backing of God in their works of unrighteousness.

Hello solite3.

I think that your second post has it right.

I will add that the Lord Jesus did not say that anyone actually cast out demons in His Name. He said that some people will claim to have done so, in order to claim some association with Him.

Suffice to say that ever since the completion of the Bible, no human being has had the authority to drive demons out of a physical body. It was one of those signs that were necessary to establish the authority of those who were bringing new revelation to the Church. That is, the ability to exorcise evil spirits was one of those "badges of authority" that the Lord gave to the believers of the apostolic age so that their message could be accepted by anyone with a heart for the Truth. They were carrying new revelations not found in the Old Testament, so it was necessary that God give them something to demonstrate that they were really His Emissaries.

Once the New Testament was completed, therefore, the abilities were removed so that we could focus on their Message rather than on the signs of authority that God gave them. So, even being a believer today does not mean that we can exorcise evil spirits, no. We cannot. If anyone is troubled with demon possession, the only way to help such a person is to give them the Gospel, if they are willing to hear it, and pray for them. It is important to keep in mind that demons can only enter a human body with the human being's consent, so it is the one who has an evil spirit who must be willing to lose it in order for the Lord to remove it from them.

Clearly, if a believer has no authority today to engage evil spirits directly, an unbeliever has no chance at all.

As for what Matthew 7:21-22 teaches, it is only that it is possible to deceive oneself into thinking that the Lord Jesus will accept one into His Kingdom when one has never believed in Him here on earth. There are lots of people who are thinking that they are doing all sorts of things for the Lord right now, although they don't care about the Gospel at all. One spoke to you on this thread too. You will also find multitude "pastors" and "prophets" and "apostles" and "bishops" who fancy themselves "anointed exorcists" (they are so popular that it is impossible that you haven't heard about them) who do not even know the Gospel. They are the sort of people that the Lord Jesus was speaking of. They are unbelievers who are fooling themselves with fanciful ideas of miraculous power. They do not cast out demons of any sort. They do not do any true miracles of any sort. They are full of tricks and lies, deceiving and being deceived. When they stand before the Lord at the Judgment of the Great White Throne, they will receive in themselves the just reward of their wickedness.

Ihedinobi3:


Suffice to say that ever since the completion of the Bible, no human being has had the authority to drive demons out of a physical body.

That depends on what you mean by "demons". I know a person currently seeking to have bet9ja demon driven out of him.

Ihedinobi3:


Hello solite3.

I think that your second post has it right.

I will add that the Lord Jesus did not say that anyone actually cast out demons in His Name. He said that some people will claim to have done so, in order to claim some association with Him.

Suffice to say that ever since the completion of the Bible, no human being has had the authority to drive demons out of a physical body. It was one of those signs that were necessary to establish the authority of those who were bringing new revelation to the Church. That is, the ability to exorcise evil spirits was one of those "badges of authority" that the Lord gave to the believers of the apostolic age so that their message could be accepted by anyone with a heart for the Truth. They were carrying new revelations not found in the Old Testament, so it was necessary that God give them something to demonstrate that they were really His Emissaries.

Once the New Testament was completed, therefore, the abilities were removed so that we could focus on their Message rather than on the signs of authority that God gave them. So, even being a believer today does not mean that we can exorcise evil spirits, no. We cannot. If anyone is troubled with demon possession, the only way to help such a person is to give them the Gospel, if they are willing to hear it, and pray for them. It is important to keep in mind that demons can only enter a human body with the human being's consent, so it is the one who has an evil spirit who must be willing to lose it in order for the Lord to remove it from them.

Clearly, if a believer has no authority today to engage evil spirits directly, an unbeliever has no chance at all.

As for what Matthew 7:21-22 teaches, it is only that it is possible to deceive oneself into thinking that the Lord Jesus will accept one into His Kingdom when one has never believed in Him here on earth. There are lots of people who are thinking that they are doing all sorts of things for the Lord right now, although they don't care about the Gospel at all. One spoke to you on this thread too. You will also find multitude "pastors" and "prophets" and "apostles" and "bishops" who fancy themselves "anointed exorcists" (they are so popular that it is impossible that you haven't heard about them) who do not even know the Gospel. They are the sort of people that the Lord Jesus was speaking of. They are unbelievers who are fooling themselves with fanciful ideas of miraculous power. They do not cast out demons of any sort. They do not do any true miracles of any sort. They are full of tricks and lies, deceiving and being deceived. When they stand before the Lord at the Judgment of the Great White Throne, they will receive in themselves the just reward of their wickedness.

succinct! You know people usually think that because those workers of iniquity said they cast out demons in the name of Jesus meant they were really saved in the first place ignoring the fact that Jesus said he never knew them. Jesus never ever denies his sheep, he said he knows his sheep and his sheep knows him.

solite3:
A non believer can not cast out a demon but satan can decieve a non christian into thinking he is casting out a demon in the name of Jesus Just to continue his unrighteous works.

False prophets and false miracle workers through the empowerment of the devil could seem to cast out a devil but in reality the devil is only deceiving ungodly people into error and false teachings thinking they have the backing of God in their works of unrighteousness.

solite3:
succinct! You know people usually think that because those workers of iniquity said they cast out demons in the name of Jesus meant they were really saved in the first place ignoring the fact that Jesus said he never knew them. Jesus never ever denies his sheep, he said he knows his sheep and his sheep knows him.

solite3, forget about all that beautiful good and dandy saving thing and/or not saved in the first place for the moment. All I want you to do is not straddle the fence, but to tell from your understanding if a non believer can cast out a devil and/or demons in the name of Jesus or not, hmm? People do things they really dont believe in, and get surprised when they get rude awakening shocking results. Case in point, the witch of Endor. Obviously a scammer plus trickster, but she got a surprising, frigthening and unpleasant discovery on that with King Saul, lol.

solite3:
succinct! You know people usually think that because those workers of iniquity said they cast out demons in the name of Jesus meant they were really saved in the first place ignoring the fact that Jesus said he never knew them. Jesus never ever denies his sheep, he said he knows his sheep and his sheep knows him.

I actually had a long conversation with another believer with respect to this yesterday. John MacArthur used that verse to teach that some believers will end up in the Lake of Fire. That, of course, is a major reason that I dislike that man's ministry. John 3:18 is not confusing at all. Only those who believe will be saved. Only those who don't are condemned. It has nothing to do with casting out demons.

The point that our Lord was making in that passage was that if you don't believe in Him, you cannot be saved, no matter what other qualification you are persuaded that you can present before Him at the Judgment of the Great White Throne.

MuttleyLaff:




"²²Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name,
and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
²³Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’"
- Matthew 7:22-23

[img]https://s3/images/ObamaMuttley.gif[/img]
OK then, who are the people in Matthew 7:22 above then that did exploits in Jesus' name, like casting out demons etcetera missjo?

Let me ask you a simple easy straighforward and direct question missjo, and that is:
Is it impossible to not comply with workings of the law of gravity when jumping off a skyscraper without much of having a parachute, at the very least strapped on, taking into account, you dont believe in, dont have faith and/or belief in the law of gravity, erhn?

Are you contrasting the workings of the cross with the workings of the law of gravity?

Really Muttley?

missjo:
Are you contrasting the workings of the cross with the workings of the law of gravity?
Really Muttley?

Both are the working of the our God missjo. God is not a respecter of persons. Please dont go narrow minded on me. On the contrary missjo, what really I am showing you with that simple easy straighforward and direct question missjo, is a resemblance.

budaatum:

And yet, there is one, "not one of them", casting out demons in Christ name. One should wonder how.

solite3:
there are people who do not believe that Jesus died for their sins yet they call Jesus Lord.

Guys you must understand that the ability to cast out demons is not restricted to just the Holy Spirit. Even Lucifer can give the power to cast out demons in the guise that it was done in the name of Jesus Christ.

It is in this same context which the Antichrist will rise up and will be mistaken for the Christ himself because he will possess most if not all the attributes of the God man, he will rule Zion and much of the unbelieving faithless world will be deceived and they will follow after him.
But of course, don't we all know how this will end.

MuttleyLaff:
Both are the working of the our God missjo. God is not a respecter of persons. Please dont go narrow minded on me. On the contrary missjo, what really I am showing you with that simple easy straighforward and direct question missjo, is a resemblance.

Muttley you must not make the divine workings of Calvary akin to the law of gravity - you're treading the line of blasphemy.

Though both are indeed the workings of our father, but yet while a simple word from the mouth of God could bring about gravity in an instant, it took thousands of years after the fall of Adam to bring about the perfect restoration that is cavalry.

missjo:


Guys you must understand that the ability to cast out demons is not restricted to just the Holy Spirit. Even Lucifer can give the power to cast out demons in the guise that it was done in the name of Jesus Christ.

It is in this same context which the Antichrist will rise up and will be mistaken for the Christ himself because he will possess most if not all the attributes of the God man, he will rule Zion and much of the unbelieving faithless world will be deceived and they will follow after him.
But of course, don't we all know how this will end.

Sorry, missjo, but where do you see in the Bible that Satan is able to give anyone power to cast out demons?

This is what I read in the Bible:

24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. 25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: 26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
(KJV) Matthew 12:24-26

missjo:
Muttley you must not make the divine workings of Calvary akin to the law of gravity - you're treading the line of blasphemy.

Though both are indeed the workings of our father, but yet while a simple word from the mouth of God could bring about gravity in an instant, it took thousands of years after the fall of Adam to bring about the perfect restoration that is cavalry.

You are departing from the serious bone of contention here missjo and that is, lets take from your understanding, is it really impossible for a non believer to cast out a devil and/or demons in the name of Jesus, hmm?

MuttleyLaff:


solite3, forget about all that beautiful good and dandy saving thing and/or not saved in the first place for the moment. All I want you to do is not straddle the fence, but to tell from your understanding if a non believer can cast out a devil and/or demons in the name of Jesus or not, hmm? People do things they really dont believe in, and get surprised when they get rude awakening shocking results. Case in point, the witch of Endor. Obviously a scammer plus trickster, but she got a surprising, frigthening and unpleasant discovery on that with King Saul, lol.

well, muttley the witch of Endor wasnt a scammer atleast the bible never said so. Demon spirit recognise the truth, for example they knew who Jesus was and called him so until Jesus silence them, in the same vein, they must have know that God had rejected saul and only rebroadcasted what samuel said when he was alive which saul already knew.

missjo:


Guys you must understand that the ability to cast out demons is not restricted to just the Holy Spirit. Even Lucifer can give the power to cast out demons in the guise that it was done in the name of Jesus Christ.

It is in this same context which the Antichrist will rise up and will be mistaken for the Christ himself because he will possess most if not all the attributes of the God man, he will rule Zion and much of the unbelieving faithless world will be deceived and they will follow after him.
But of course, don't we all know how this will end.

my taught exactly only that satan do not really cast out satan but only appear to do so so as to sweep the gullible in deception.
Note I dont believe satan can cast out satan, he only appears to do so for he is a master deciever

Ihedinobi3:

Sorry, missjo, but where do you see in the Bible that Satan is able to give anyone power to cast out demons?

This is what I read in the Bible:

24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. 25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: 26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
(KJV) Matthew 12:24-26

Jesus was making an argument, it doesn't in anyway dispute Lucifer's abilities to deceive. I certainly did not also mean it in such a way that the devil deliberately possesses a person with his demons and then looks for someone to cast them out like a theatrical play.

That said, this is the next verse sir:

Matthew 12:27 New International Version (NIV)
27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges.

If the Pharisees who believed not, also had the ability to cast out demons, by whom did they appear to do it sir?
Certainly not within workings of the Holy Spirit, don't you think?

JESUS BROUGHT AN IDEOLOGY OF SOULISH FREEDOM, BUT WORLD HAVE LOPSIDED IT.
THAT'S WHY WE HAVE RELIGION.

The beginning of being tormented by a Demon begins from your Beliefs in Superstitions and manipulative doctrines.

Your beliefs actually have a direct impact in your perspicuity of life.

Your perspicuity of life defines your thoughts, imaginations, visions, decisions and actions. Where as, your actions determines what you manifest in life.

Therefore, before a man can be tormented by a demon, he must have permitted the demon to do so.

Change your beliefs and the demon tormenting you shall flee.

Shalom!

solite3:
my taught exactly only that satan do not really cast out satan but only appear to do so so as to sweep the gullible in deception.
Note I dont believe satan can cast out satan, he only appears to do so for he is a master deciever

This is what I mean, which is why I added in the guise it was done in Jesus name