Let God and God alone guide you on life issues.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhcaxFR7cPI

hoopernikao:
@Janosky, Maximus69, DappaD, Acehart

I have asked you two cogent and important questions and prove of your theology. It is sad that till now, you cant present any and yet you held to a doctrine that has no foundation in the scriptures. Is this right? You dont make a claim you cant show with the Bible.

1. I asked you to present a scriptures that specifically said JESUS IS ANGEL MICHEAL. You have roamed around the bible without presenting any. Not even directly or indirectly, all you presented is like a child doing 1+1 = 2 with bible. Is this how bible interpretation is to be handled?


2. Who in the history of the early church (1st and 2nd Century) preached this message of yours (JESUS IS ANGEL [b]ARCHANGEL MICHAEL).[/b]

I have asked you over and over again to present here, i known text that originated from those century supporting your claim? Is it a new revelation that doesnt have history. Who preached it, when was it originated. Dont you think it is an accidental misinterpretation of the bible? A doctrine without history will be false. All doctrine must be seen in teaching and practices of the early churches. You cant present any. Sadly, you cant because it doesnt exist.


Let me help you now.

The very first mention of such doctrine ( i mean close to it) originated in the 3rd century (i wont give you the name of your church father who originated such error, go and read yourself). It was a heresy preached to reduced the work of Christ by the proponent. The reason for Nicea council is to check mate such error. This is contrary to your false stand that Nicea council was instituted to preach Trinity for the first time.

The doctrine of Trinity was in existence before and there are prove that the 1st and 2nd centuries writer wrote about it, even those who met Jesus Apostles directly. Nicea council was to affirm that doctrine and curb the lies newly originated at that period.


Back to the issue.

Get this on record, that you have no scriptures for such bad doctrine. You will only be twisting your way, sadly, there is even little on nothing to use to twist and the scripture is clear on this issue.

@Rozz that you are trying to convince confuse has already receive that which is true and important, and no one will be able to take that from her. And she will continue to be established in the truth.

I have washed my hands off you. Even if you are shown your eyes, you wouldn’t see it. I’ll leave you with a parting gift: who was the man Paul was referring to in 2 Corinthians 12:2? Who was the angel of the Lord in Zechariah 3:1-7 and how is it He has power to take away a man’s iniquity and clothe one in a new garment?

When you feel like responding, please don’t quote me, I use God beg you.

Acehart:


I have washed my hands off you. Even if you are shown your eyes, you wouldn’t see it. I’ll leave you with a parting gift: who was the man Paul was referring to in 2 Corinthians 12:2? Who was the angel of the Lord in Zechariah 3:1-7 and how is it He has power to take away a man’s iniquity and clothe one in a new garment?

When you feel like responding, please don’t quote me, I use God beg you.

You people sha, you will just take scriptures and do it anyhow you like. See what you quoted above? Jesus is patient o.

The writer spoke of angel, you are seeing Jesus. Manipulation yi po ju. This one nah over hermeneutics
Habaa


And by the way. It hasnt reach fight o. Bible interpretation is not personal issue.

CORRECTING THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF CALLING JESUS AN ANGEL

I will be presenting my full explanations in separate but holistic posts. This is to guide against missing any point and avid distractions.

As a beginner, one of the most basic thing a bible student must know and adhere to in bible interpretation is to know that the scriptures even though is a collections of different books, it must be read together and see as a singular information, documentation and God's inspiration to humanity. [/b]The moment you want to start interpreting scriptures in silos or lifting verses out of its context to suit a narrative, you are already prone to error. [b]Any doctrine must have its foundation in the scriptures and must be taught evidently and visibly to establish it as a doctrine.


A doctrine as foundational as who Christ is that you cant put out more than 4-5 scriptures is already on its way to falsehood. Bible interpretation is not child's play that you just say whatever you feel. It must be provable, teachable, practicable and explainable.


Secondly, every books of the bible and its teaching were all drawn from a foundation writing. They werent drawn by sleeping and praying and something just dropped. All writers and writings of the scriptures have their foundation in Moses' writings. The foundation of all scriptures is based and drawn from what Moses wrote. That means, no author is an island on himself, They studied, searched, investigated Moses writing and by the inspiration of God wrote as an extension and progressive revelation. This is the reason we say the scriptures are sufficiently enough to be its own evidence. When you understand this in bible study, you will always take it as a duty to examine where an author is likely drawing its point from.

Note this, THE HOLYGHOST WILL NOT INSPIRE AN AUTHOR TO WRITE AS AGAINST HIS INSPIRATION IN MOSES WRITINGS. Hence, a great responsibility is placed on us to now read properly, investigate, compare scriptures and by the help of the same Holy Spirit, understand the text of the scriptures.

---

Having said this, because of space, i will take my first point.

Firstly. Note that even though i have asked for scriptural evidence to show that JESUS IS AN ANGEL. I have seen none that seems serious. Only one person (DappaD) out of 4 proponents of such here pointed me to scriptures as explanation. Yet, see below what you send.

from DappaD

What is the meaning of the term ‘archangel’?
It means “chief of the angels”. Jude 6 calls Michael “the archangel” meaning there's only one angel in that position. And it is never used in plural, meaning only one person bears this title.
Also in Daniel 12:1, Michael is also called the “great prince” which coincides with a prophecy foretold at Isaiah 9:6,7 which called Jesus the “Prince of Peace”.

Now in Revelation 12:7, we read “...Michael and his angels battled with the dragon...”, we also see at 2Thessalonians 1:7 that says “...the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels...”
Jesus himself said the time will come when he will “come in the glory of his Father with his angels...” (Matthew 16:27)
So regarding the position and authority Jesus wields in God's Kingdom, it is safe to say that Jesus is Michael the archangel. Because the name Michael means “Who Is Like God?” who else can be like God if not Jesus?. In light of that, in Paul's words to the Colossians, he called Jesus “the image of the invisible God” (Colossians 1:15)
All these are drawn from the Bible and only those who truly want to do the will of God will find such sacred secrets.

Taking your scriptural quotes out. I have also highlighted your key points.

1. Jude 9: Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

2. Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:

3. Isaiah 9:6,7 ...his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

4. Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

5. 2 Thessalonians 1:7 Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

6. Matthew 16:27 come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

7. Colossians 1:15 Who is the[b] image of the invisible God[/b], the firstborn of every creature:


Sadly, none of these have Jesus and Michael in same context. Only two have Jesus and Angel(s) in same context (2 Thessalonians 1:7, Matthew 16:27. we will still examine this).

Your point was that, we need to juxtapose the scriptures to come to the meaning. I am sorry, true bible hermeneutics and exegesis doesnt allow such juxtaposing. It will breed error as this. We must be able to trace vividly, by explaining scriptures with scriptures to derive a stand.

Also note, that only one of your scriptures have a meaning of angels in same context with Jesus. That is the word occurring together. The rest are simply out of it.

I will make sure i handle them in my explanations.


I truly hope you are patient enough to read to understand and then raise your concern howbeit, with scriptures.

@Janosky, Maximus69, DappaD, Acehart, Rozz, MuttleyLaff, Myer, Goshen360 (love to invite you two here)

hoopernikao:
THE ERROR OF CALLING JESUS AN ANGEL

I will be presenting my full explanations in separate but holistic posts. This is to guide against missing any point and avid distractions.

As a beginner, one of the most basic thing a bible student must know and adhere to in bible interpretation is to know that the scriptures even though is a collections of different books, it must be read together and see as a singular information, documentation and God's inspiration to humanity. [/b]The moment you want to start interpreting scriptures in silos or lifting verses out of its context to suit a narrative, you are already prone to error. [b]Any doctrine must have its foundation in the scriptures and must be taught evidently and visibly to establish it as a doctrine.


A doctrine as foundational as who Christ is that you cant put out more than 4-5 scriptures is already on its way to falsehood. Bible interpretation is not child's play that you just say whatever you feel. It must be provable, teachable, practicable and explainable.


Secondly, every books of the bible and its teaching were all drawn from a foundation writing. They werent drawn by sleeping and praying and something just dropped. All writers and writings of the scriptures have their foundation in Moses' writings. The foundation of all scriptures is based and drawn from what Moses wrote. That means, no author is an island on himself, They studied, searched, investigated Moses writing and by the inspiration of God wrote as an extension and progressive revelation. This is the reason we say the scriptures are sufficiently enough to be its own evidence. When you understand this in bible study, you will always take it as a duty to examine where an author is likely drawing its point from.

Note this, THE HOLYGHOST WILL NOT INSPIRE AN AUTHOR TO WRITE AS AGAINST HIS INSPIRATION IN MOSES WRITINGS. Hence, a great responsibility is placed on us to now read properly, investigate, compare scriptures and by the help of the same Holy Spirit, understand the text of the scriptures.

---

Having said this, because of space, i will take my first point.

Firstly. Note that even though i have asked for scriptural evidence to show that JESUS IS AN ANGEL. I have seen none that seems serious. Only one person (DappaD) out of 4 proponents of such here pointed me to scriptures as explanation. Yet, see below what you send.



Taking your scriptural quotes out. I have also highlighted your key points.

1. Jude 9: Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

2. Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:

3. Isaiah 9:6,7 ...his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

4. Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

5. 2 Thessalonians 1:7 Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

6. Matthew 16:27 come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

7. Colossians 1:15 Who is the[b] image of the invisible God[/b], the firstborn of every creature:


Sadly, none of these have Jesus and Michael in same context. Only two have Jesus and Angel(s) in same context (2 Thessalonians 1:7, Matthew 16:27. we will still examine this).

Your point was that, we need to juxtapose the scriptures to come to the meaning. I am sorry, true bible hermeneutics and exegesis doesnt allow such juxtaposing. It will breed error as this. We must be able to trace vividly, by explaining scriptures with scriptures to derive a stand.

Also note, that only one of your scriptures have a meaning of angels in same context with Jesus. That is the word occurring together. The rest are simply out of it.

I will make sure i handle them in my explanations.


I truly hope you are patient enough to read to understand and then raise your concern howbeit, with scriptures.

@Janosky, Maximus69, DappaD, Acehart, Rozz, MuttleyLaff, Myer, Goshen360 (love to invite you two here)

Oh so you agree you were pointed to the scriptures, yet you keep saying “show me where Jesus is Angel”, if you can't accept the above explanations,
My guy you will wait and tire for the scripture that will explicitly tell you that Jesus is the archangel Michael. It can only be explained to you, since it's a sacred secret revealed only to God's people. Jehovah's Witnesses being ardent students of the Bible will take it up against you any day any time that Jesus is archangel Michael.

DappaD:

Oh so you agree you were pointed to the scriptures, yet you keep saying “show me where Jesus is Angel”, if you can't accept the above explanations, Fine! Let it be! Stop inciting us!
My brother you will wait and tire for the scripture that will explicitly tell you that Jesus is the archangel Michael. It can only be explained to you, since it's a sacred secret revealed only to God's people. Jehovah's Witnesses being ardent students of the Bible will take it up against you any day any time that Jesus is archangel Michael.

CORRECTING THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF CALLING JESUS AN ANGEL

CORRECTION 1: BIBLE EXPLICIT DETAILS AVAILABLE TO US DID NOT POINT TO JESUS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY AS ANGEL.

Knowing fully well how God is a detailed being. Going by the scriptures, there are key things that the scriptures and God wouldnt have paraphrased or used lazily. For example, you will see doctrine or Faith, Righteousness, Salvation etc are well explicit and documented in the bible. These were so, so that we can have clarity.

Hence going by context of the scriptures, you cannot see any where to ascertain the doctrine of Jesus is Angel, any where. Those who claimed that have to robbed the scriptures to arrived at it.

See few bible usage of words related to Jesus below.

Jesus was referred to in many names in the scriptures, from savior, Christ, Son of Man, Son of God etc, but we cant see anywhere it included the name of an angel to represent him.

Basic name usage as per Jesus.

SON OF MAN: Used 16 times directly
CHRIST: 569 times
JESUS: 975 times
SON OF GOD: over 50 times
SAVIOR, LORD, PRINCE, MASTER, PASSOVER, REDEMPTION, OFFERING FOR SIN etc: Used over 300 times.
ANGEL: 0 times

Note: No single verse referred him to as angel. Not even indirectly or by error in both his divinity or humanity. NONE.


Usage of MICHAEL and ANGELS in Scriptures

MICHEAL: 5 times
ANGELS: 94 times.

In non of these were they referring to Jesus. NONE.

---

Also see.

USAGE of the phrase "HIS ANGELS"

One of the claim of those advocating Jesus as angel or archangel is a context that placed him in the phrase "JESUS AND HIS ANGELS"

They claim, that means Jesus is an arch angel since he has angels. The deception in this is that such person subtly remove the fact that there are other personalities in the bible that were referred to in such phrase too.

Matt 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


The advocate used this two scriptures to draw a point on Jesus has angels, Micheal has angels, then Jesus and Michael are the same. This is a grievous error from such people and it is also and insincere effort.

Note, the same Rev 12:7 said the dragon has his angels. We likewise have scriptures that spoke about God (his angels).

Ps 91:11 For h[/b]e shall give [b]his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

1 Corinthians 13:1 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Revelation 3:5 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared


In the 3 Scriptures above, we see angels used as possession of God. This means other advocate can also push that since God has angels, and Jesus has angels, then Jesus is God, sadly, this is what the proponent of Jesus is angel dont want to hear.

Such interpretation is just our imagination, it is doctrinally false and erroneous.

We cannot established with the scriptures that Jesus is an angel and he is surely not. Hence it is an error to suggest such as doctrine.

I will give a follow up later on CORRECTION 2 (NO SCRIPTURE ON JESUS' APPEARANCE IN HIS SECOND COMING EVER CALLED HIM ANGEL BUT MOSTLY CALLED SON OF MAN) if required.

@Janosky, Maximus69, DappaD, Acehart, Rozz, MuttleyLaff, Myer, Goshen360

hoopernikao:
CORRECTING THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF CALLING JESUS AN ANGEL

CORRECTION 1: BIBLE EXPLICIT DETAILS AVAILABLE TO US DID NOT POINT TO JESUS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY AS ANGEL.

Knowing fully well how God is a detailed being. Going by the scriptures, there are key things that the scriptures and God wouldnt have paraphrased or used lazily. For example, you will see doctrine or Faith, Righteousness, Salvation etc are well explicit and documented in the bible. These were so, so that we can have clarity.

Hence going by context of the scriptures, you cannot see any where to ascertain the doctrine of Jesus is Angel, any where. Those who claimed that have to robbed the scriptures to arrived at it.

See few bible usage of words related to Jesus below.

Jesus was referred to in many names in the scriptures, from savior, Christ, Son of Man, Son of God etc, but we cant see anywhere it included the name of an angel to represent him.

Basic name usage as per Jesus.

SON OF MAN: Used 16 times directly
CHRIST: 569 times
JESUS: 975 times
SON OF GOD: over 50 times
SAVIOR, LORD, PRINCE, MASTER, PASSOVER, REDEMPTION, OFFERING FOR SIN etc: Used over 300 times.
ANGEL: 0 times

Note: No single verse referred him to as angel. Not even indirectly or by error in both his divinity or humanity. NONE.


Usage of MICHAEL and ANGELS in Scriptures

MICHEAL: 5 times
ANGELS: 94 times.

In non of these were they referring to Jesus. NONE.

---

Also see.

USAGE of the phrase "HIS ANGELS"

One of the claim of those advocating Jesus as angel or archangel is a context that placed him in the phrase "JESUS AND HIS ANGELS"

They claim, that means Jesus is an arch angel since he has angels. The deception in this is that such person subtly remove the fact that there are other personalities in the bible that were referred to in such phrase too.

Matt 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


The advocate used this two scriptures to draw a point on Jesus has angels, Micheal has angels, then Jesus and Michael are the same. This is a grievous error from such people and it is also and insincere effort.

Note, the same Rev 12:7 said the dragon has his angels. We likewise have scriptures that spoke about God (his angels).

Ps 91:11 For h[/b]e shall give [b]his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

1 Corinthians 13:1 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Revelation 3:5 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared


In the 3 Scriptures above, we see angels used as possession of God. This means other advocate can also push that since God has angels, and Jesus has angels, then Jesus is God, sadly, this is what the proponent of Jesus is angel dont want to hear.

Such interpretation is just our imagination, it is doctrinally false and erroneous.

We cannot established with the scriptures that Jesus is an angel and he is surely not. Hence it is an error to suggest such as doctrine.

I will give a follow up later on CORRECTION 2 (NO SCRIPTURE ON JESUS' APPEARANCE IN HIS SECOND COMING EVER CALLED HIM ANGEL BUT MOSTLY CALLED SON OF MAN) if required.

@Janosky, Maximus69, DappaD, Acehart, Rozz, MuttleyLaff, Myer, Goshen360

I intentionally avoided this discourse for the simple fact that it is one of those that I have termed inconclusive arguments.

While we can't find the mention of the trinity of God is the bible, yet it can be inferred. The same can be said of Jesus being Archangel Michael.

By definition the word Angel means a messenger from God.
And Archangel means the Primary messenger from God.

By inference the title and position would seem only suitable to the person of Jesus Christ.

I think DappaD has done justice with the scriptural references to support this.

However like other spiritual affairs, it is subject to personal revelation.

hoopernikao:
CORRECTING THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF CALLING JESUS AN ANGEL

CORRECTION 1: BIBLE EXPLICIT DETAILS AVAILABLE TO US DID NOT POINT TO JESUS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY AS ANGEL.

Knowing fully well how God is a detailed being. Going by the scriptures, there are key things that the scriptures and God wouldnt have paraphrased or used lazily. For example, you will see doctrine or Faith, Righteousness, Salvation etc are well explicit and documented in the bible. These were so, so that we can have clarity.

Hence going by context of the scriptures, you cannot see any where to ascertain the doctrine of Jesus is Angel, any where. Those who claimed that have to robbed the scriptures to arrived at it.

See few bible usage of words related to Jesus below.

Jesus was referred to in many names in the scriptures, from savior, Christ, Son of Man, Son of God etc, but we cant see anywhere it included the name of an angel to represent him.

Basic name usage as per Jesus.

SON OF MAN: Used 16 times directly
CHRIST: 569 times
JESUS: 975 times
SON OF GOD: over 50 times
SAVIOR, LORD, PRINCE, MASTER, PASSOVER, REDEMPTION, OFFERING FOR SIN etc: Used over 300 times.
ANGEL: 0 times

Note: No single verse referred him to as angel. Not even indirectly or by error in both his divinity or humanity. NONE.


Usage of MICHAEL and ANGELS in Scriptures

MICHEAL: 5 times
ANGELS: 94 times.

In non of these were they referring to Jesus. NONE.

---

Also see.

USAGE of the phrase "HIS ANGELS"

One of the claim of those advocating Jesus as angel or archangel is a context that placed him in the phrase "JESUS AND HIS ANGELS"

They claim, that means Jesus is an arch angel since he has angels. The deception in this is that such person subtly remove the fact that there are other personalities in the bible that were referred to in such phrase too.

Matt 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


The advocate used this two scriptures to draw a point on Jesus has angels, Micheal has angels, then Jesus and Michael are the same. This is a grievous error from such people and it is also and insincere effort.

Note, the same Rev 12:7 said the dragon has his angels. We likewise have scriptures that spoke about God (his angels).

Ps 91:11 For h[/b]e shall give [b]his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

1 Corinthians 13:1 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Revelation 3:5 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared


In the 3 Scriptures above, we see angels used as possession of God. This means other advocate can also push that since God has angels, and Jesus has angels, then Jesus is God, sadly, this is what the proponent of Jesus is angel dont want to hear.

Such interpretation is just our imagination, it is doctrinally false and erroneous.

We cannot established with the scriptures that Jesus is an angel and he is surely not. Hence it is an error to suggest such as doctrine.

I will give a follow up later on CORRECTION 2 (NO SCRIPTURE ON JESUS' APPEARANCE IN HIS SECOND COMING EVER CALLED HIM ANGEL BUT MOSTLY CALLED SON OF MAN) if required.

@Janosky, Maximus69, DappaD, Acehart, Rozz, MuttleyLaff, Myer, Goshen360

No matter how you put it, what has been said has been said

hoopernikao:
CORRECTING THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF CALLING JESUS AN ANGEL

CORRECTION 1: BIBLE EXPLICIT DETAILS AVAILABLE TO US DID NOT POINT TO JESUS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY AS ANGEL.

Knowing fully well how God is a detailed being. Going by the scriptures, there are key things that the scriptures and God wouldnt have paraphrased or used lazily. For example, you will see doctrine or Faith, Righteousness, Salvation etc are well explicit and documented in the bible. These were so, so that we can have clarity.

Hence going by context of the scriptures, you cannot see any where to ascertain the doctrine of Jesus is Angel, any where. Those who claimed that have to robbed the scriptures to arrived at it.

See few bible usage of words related to Jesus below.

Jesus was referred to in many names in the scriptures, from savior, Christ, Son of Man, Son of God etc, but we cant see anywhere it included the name of an angel to represent him.

Basic name usage as per Jesus.

SON OF MAN: Used 16 times directly
CHRIST: 569 times
JESUS: 975 times
SON OF GOD: over 50 times
SAVIOR, LORD, PRINCE, MASTER, PASSOVER, REDEMPTION, OFFERING FOR SIN etc: Used over 300 times.
ANGEL: 0 times

Note: No single verse referred him to as angel. Not even indirectly or by error in both his divinity or humanity. NONE.


Usage of MICHAEL and ANGELS in Scriptures

MICHEAL: 5 times
ANGELS: 94 times.

In non of these were they referring to Jesus. NONE.

---

Also see.

USAGE of the phrase "HIS ANGELS"

One of the claim of those advocating Jesus as angel or archangel is a context that placed him in the phrase "JESUS AND HIS ANGELS"

They claim, that means Jesus is an arch angel since he has angels. The deception in this is that such person subtly remove the fact that there are other personalities in the bible that were referred to in such phrase too.

Matt 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


The advocate used this two scriptures to draw a point on Jesus has angels, Micheal has angels, then Jesus and Michael are the same. This is a grievous error from such people and it is also and insincere effort.

Note, the same Rev 12:7 said the dragon has his angels. We likewise have scriptures that spoke about God (his angels).

Ps 91:11 For h[/b]e shall give [b]his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

1 Corinthians 13:1 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Revelation 3:5 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared


In the 3 Scriptures above, we see angels used as possession of God. This means other advocate can also push that since God has angels, and Jesus has angels, then Jesus is God, sadly, this is what the proponent of Jesus is angel dont want to hear.

Such interpretation is just our imagination, it is doctrinally false and erroneous.

We cannot established with the scriptures that Jesus is an angel and he is surely not. Hence it is an error to suggest such as doctrine.

I will give a follow up later on CORRECTION 2 (NO SCRIPTURE ON JESUS' APPEARANCE IN HIS SECOND COMING EVER CALLED HIM ANGEL BUT MOSTLY CALLED SON OF MAN) if required.

@Janosky, Maximus69, DappaD, Acehart, Rozz, MuttleyLaff, Myer, Goshen360

You always keep dragging people in to your matter because you're not sure of it yourself.

Maximus69:


Never mind Sir, i'll prefer not to be identified with whatever you choose to be called so that everyone can see that i'm different from you and your cohorts!

laughing, false jw mad max

really you could not be identified with me, such delusion antichristian - antichrist:

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Maximus69:


Produce the fruit Sir, not just group name!

phony false jw max, repeating your same lies over and over again,
you have been shown your rotten fruit many times, antichristian - antichrist

DappaD:


You always keep dragging people in to your matter because you're not sure of it yourself! And you don't want to take corrections either! You're looking for who will fight over something that already is. What you believe in is none of my concern. You can keep being blind all you want.
I ASK YOU TO STOP QUOTING ME MAN. STOP IT.

It seems you are new here.
There is none of those i copied that we likely hold the same view together or that we have shared views on this topic before, they are here, ask them or go and check our previous interactions. I dont do things for publicity if you dont know that for now. Learn that. I give people room for examining their doctrine and also to challenge my view so that i can be moved to further studies if need be. Dont be afraid.

Firstly, I copied those who are concerned here directly, even the fellow who seems to hold a closer view to what i am saying and have been dealing/challenging you wasnt copied. The other two fellows i copied, i dont even know their views on Jesus divinity or humanity but i have seen them ask intelligent questions, scrutinize doctrine with open minds when it comes to scriptures.
I dont do things in secrets and i engage in proper discussion with fear or sentiments. And for your record one of them is my major critics on this forum.


By the way, why do you have issues with people being copied if your heart is true. You asked for explanation, i have given you, yet all you have been saying are only sentiments that shows you have no evidence or even understanding of what you are saying.

See, i have gone past all those sentiments or emotional robberies. It is lazy to call a fellow who challenged your doctrinal stand as seeking argument. Those are lazy statements to seek emotional support and manipulate readers. For you to contribute to a public post, you should be ready for it to be challenged especially when it is false.

Ask your fellow colleagues, i have heard all these your excuses from them severally and it only comes when they are already found out and have nothing to show again.

I have asked you serious and cogent things concerning the bible, you have no rebuttal and yet you are showing emotional sentiment. Kindly help yourself to avoid posting on public forum again and spend more time to study and know what you believe well and be able to defend it when you are questioned. A bible student is taught to contend earnestly, to study as approved of God. No lazy talk or manipulation. If it is hard for you to own up to your error, then better dont talk and be silent than commit more sins.


Lastly, you cant find pleasure in discussing with someone who seems not to have key understanding of your error yet you shout "dont quote me, you like arguing" to someone who challenged you to scriptures. It simply means you only want to prey on the simplicity and knowledge seeking heart of the former. That is the case of Rozz and some others here. But God will not allow you. They will know how to discern the truth from lies and be established in the truth of God's word without manipulation and deceptions.

In all, there are two weapons of a man whose lies are already found and has no defence again, one is using distractions, the second is using sentiments. I have always seen that many times and have seen it here also, but which ever way, the word of God will prevail and no distraction or sentiment will stop His revelation.

Janosky:


WAYO johnw FRAUD Man...
You are indeed very very DULL , over DULL ...

Your folks always say "God is your Strength", meaning ' Your strength comes from God'.
In other words, God gives you strength.

"God is your throne" meaning "your throne is from God'. Psalms 45:6. Hebrews 1:8 (NWT).
In other words, God OWNS the throne HE gives His Son, Jesus to rule. 2 Chro 9:8. 1 Chro29:23. Rev3:21.

Your so called "God" OBEYS his Father, Yahweh's Command to sit on Yahweh's throne.

WAYO johnw DULLARD

lying pharisee false jw Janosky/OneJ

that's the way, keep up your confusion and lies oh great know nothing.
you whose god turns into a throne and into a crown

you way heap big mumu jan,


antichristian and antichrist polytheist, i'm glad you are ashamed to call yourself a christian and are unable to glorify God, which of course you never was.
being ashamed to be called christian you won't enter into Jesus Kingdom
but there is still the lake of fire for you:

1Pe_4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

2Pe_1:11  For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.



Rev_20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Janosky:

EMPTY NOISE of a DULLARD

oh know nothing, you still crying there mumu

hoopernikao:




It seems you are new here.
There is none of those i copied that we likely hold the same view together or that we have shared views on this topic before, they are here, ask them or go and check our previous interactions. I dont do things for publicity if you dont know that for now. Learn that. I give people room for examining their doctrine and also to challenge my view so that i can be moved to further studies if need be. Dont be afraid.

Firstly, I copied those who are concerned here directly, even the fellow who seems to hold a closer view to what i am saying and have been dealing/challenging you wasnt copied. The other two fellows i copied, i dont even know their views on Jesus divinity or humanity but i have seen them ask intelligent questions, scrutinize doctrine with open minds when it comes to scriptures.
I dont do things in secrets and i engage in proper discussion with fear or sentiments. And for your record one of them is my major critics on this forum.


By the way, why do you have issues with people being copied if your heart is true. You asked for explanation, i have given you, yet all you have been saying are only sentiments that shows you have no evidence or even understanding of what you are saying.

See, i have gone past all those sentiments or emotional robberies. It is lazy to call a fellow who challenged your doctrinal stand as seeking argument. Those are lazy statements to seek emotional support and manipulate readers. For you to contribute to a public post, you should be ready for it to be challenged especially when it is false.

Ask your fellow colleagues, i have heard all these your excuses from them severally and it only comes when they are already found out and have nothing to show again.

I have asked you serious and cogent things concerning the bible, you have no rebuttal and yet you are showing emotional sentiment. Kindly help yourself to avoid posting on public forum again and spend more time to study and know what you believe well and be able to defend it when you are questioned. A bible student is taught to contend earnestly, to study as approved of God. No lazy talk or manipulation. If it is hard for you to own up to your error, then better dont talk and be silent than commit more sins.


Lastly, you cant find pleasure in discussing with someone who seems not to have key understanding of your error yet you shout "dont quote me, you like arguing" to someone who challenged you to scriptures. It simply means you only want to prey on the simplicity and knowledge seeking heart of the former. That is the case of Rozz and some others here. But God will not allow you. They will know how to discern the truth from lies and be established in the truth of God's word without manipulation and deceptions.

In all, there are two weapons of a man whose lies are already found and has no defence again, one is using distractions, the second is using sentiments. I have always seen that many times and have seen it here also, but which ever way, the word of God will prevail and no distraction or sentiment will stop His revelation.

Okay so you assume I care what your motives are. Well I don't. I've had enough of you dragging me into what has been thoroughly explained.

hoopernikao:




It seems you are new here.
There is none of those i copied that we likely hold the same view together or that we have shared views on this topic before, they are here, ask them or go and check our previous interactions. I dont do things for publicity if you dont know that for now. Learn that. I give people room for examining their doctrine and also to challenge my view so that i can be moved to further studies if need be. Dont be afraid.

Firstly, I copied those who are concerned here directly, even the fellow who seems to hold a closer view to what i am saying and have been dealing/challenging you wasnt copied. The other two fellows i copied, i dont even know their views on Jesus divinity or humanity but i have seen them ask intelligent questions, scrutinize doctrine with open minds when it comes to scriptures.
I dont do things in secrets and i engage in proper discussion with fear or sentiments. And for your record one of them is my major critics on this forum.


By the way, why do you have issues with people being copied if your heart is true. You asked for explanation, i have given you, yet all you have been saying are only sentiments that shows you have no evidence or even understanding of what you are saying.

See, i have gone past all those sentiments or emotional robberies. It is lazy to call a fellow who challenged your doctrinal stand as seeking argument. Those are lazy statements to seek emotional support and manipulate readers. For you to contribute to a public post, you should be ready for it to be challenged especially when it is false.

Ask your fellow colleagues, i have heard all these your excuses from them severally and it only comes when they are already found out and have nothing to show again.

I have asked you serious and cogent things concerning the bible, you have no rebuttal and yet you are showing emotional sentiment. Kindly help yourself to avoid posting on public forum again and spend more time to study and know what you believe well and be able to defend it when you are questioned. A bible student is taught to contend earnestly, to study as approved of God. No lazy talk or manipulation. If it is hard for you to own up to your error, then better dont talk and be silent than commit more sins.


Lastly, you cant find pleasure in discussing with someone who seems not to have key understanding of your error yet you shout "dont quote me, you like arguing" to someone who challenged you to scriptures. It simply means you only want to prey on the simplicity and knowledge seeking heart of the former. That is the case of Rozz and some others here. But God will not allow you. They will know how to discern the truth from lies and be established in the truth of God's word without manipulation and deceptions.

In all, there are two weapons of a man whose lies are already found and has no defence again, one is using distractions, the second is using sentiments. I have always seen that many times and have seen it here also, but which ever way, the word of God will prevail and no distraction or sentiment will stop His revelation.

You've already made your stand clear that you don't believe Jesus is the archangel Michael. That's fine. But do not drag me into frivolous arguments because you think I'll have time for that. YOU DO NOT WANT TO LEARN! You're just looking for arguments and that's it. If you truly wanted to learn, then the explanations can go further. Other than that, count me out fam.

DappaD:

You've already made your stand clear that you don't believe Jesus is the archangel Michael. That's fine. But do not drag me into frivolous arguments because you think I'll have time for that. YOU DO NOT WANT TO LEARN! You're just looking for arguments and that's it. If you truly wanted to learn, then the explanations can go further. Other than that, count me out fam.

This is still sentiments, assumptions and manipulations.

Leave all these and face the scriptures. That is the key here. I have laid it down for you.

All i am writing is not for you alone. It is a public space. I write to avoid you derailing open minded heart searching to know incase you refused to know.

So, present your explanation and bear others at heart. Stop all these manipulative word.

DappaD:

Okay so you assume I care what your motives are. Well I don't. I've had enough of you dragging me into what has been thoroughly explained.

Thoroughly explained by who?
You like joke sha.

That your post like SMS that you just dabbled things is what you called thoroughly?

Maximus69:


JEHOVAH is using his mighty spirit son (Jesus) to gather all peace loving worshipers into one group and gave them a new name "JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES" Isaiah 65:15

oh duh know nothing lying twister of God's word making Him a liar, max

Isa 65:15  And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: 

the name of God's people the jews has become dishonorable
God's people are now called Christian

and truly false jw max, you false jw's who are ashamed to call yourselves christian
are a group belonging to satan, you are part of satans mob, oh blinded ones:

1Pe_4:16  Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

Act_11:26  And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.


2Co_4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

hoopernikao:


This is still sentiments, assumptions and manipulations.

Leave all these and face the scriptures. That is the key here. I have laid it down for you.

All i am writing is not for you alone. It is a public space. I write to avoid you derailing open minded heart searching to know incase you refused to know.

So, present your explanation and bear others at heart. Stop all these manipulative word.

The matter has already been deliberated on but I'll go again.
We've made some points clear.

1. Jesus is the firstborn of all God's creation and it was through Jesus that all other things were created, be it visible or invisible things. (Colossians 1:15,16, Revelation 3:14, John 1:3)

2. Jesus had a prehuman existence as a spirit creature in heaven, thereby making him an angel. (Proverbs 8:22-31, Micah 5:2, John 3:13, 6:38, 8:23, 58) John 8:58 --- Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”

3. Jesus then became a human(John 1:14, 1Timothy 3:16)

4. Michael is referred to as an archangel in the Bible(Jude 9)

5. Daniel 12:1 - “...Michael will stand up, the great prince of who is standing in behalf of your people.”

6. Isaiah 9:6 called Jesus, the “Prince of Peace”

7. At Matthew 13:41, Jesus said he will “...send his angels...” for a particular assignment.

8. 1Thessalonians 4:16 speaks of the time Jesus would return “...because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice...” And remember, the Bible only mentioned one archangel, so who else could the voice be referring to? If not Michael[Jesus]?

9. Even at 2Thessalonians 1:7, Jesus is spoken as having “his powerful angels”

10. Now, we read at Revelation 12:7 “...Michael and his angels battled with the dragon”

11. Jesus is the leader of God's army in executing His righteous judgments (Revelation 17:14, 19:13-16)
So since Jesus is the leader of God's army, wouldn't it be fair to say it was Jesus [under the name Michael] who carried out the attack on Satan and his angels and hurled them to the earth? The armies of angels in heaven are all united in one purpose to see God's will prevail and they number a “myriads of myriads” or “thousands of thousands” (Daniel 7:10, Revelation 5:11)
So they definitely must have somebody leading them into battle against opposers of God! Who else other than Jesus [Michael, who led the attack on Satan as we read earlier in Revelation 12:7]
Michael[Jesus]has been standing in behalf of his loyal and organized people on earth, Jehovah's Witnesses.
I'm never tired to defend my beliefs as you wrongly asserted. It's just that when I weigh the possible outcome and see that it is fruitless, I avoid the conversation altogether.

Janosky:



You have ZERO love for Bible Truth, you love attention and arguments.
Please stay safe

lying false accuser Janosky/OneJ

you lie and say he has zero love for bible truth
and then you say, please stay safe

you false jw's have zero love for bible truth
and i would never say to you: please stay safe

you way heap big pharisee hypocrite, aren't you

Mat 23:15  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

pressplay411:



I intentionally avoided this discourse for the simple fact that it is one of those that I have termed inconclusive arguments.

While we can't find the mention of the trinity of God is the bible, yet it can be inferred. The same can be said of Jesus being Archangel Michael.

By definition the word Angel means a messenger from God.
And Archangel means the Primary messenger from God.

By inference the title and position would seem only suitable to the person of Jesus Christ.

I think DappaD has done justice with the scriptural references to support this.

However like other spiritual affairs, it is subject to personal revelation or discerning spirit

God bless you again and again for this post!

Now if it's subject to personal revelation , and there is BENEFITIAL WORKS to show for it {James 2:18-26} is there any need for further argument?

DappaD:

The matter has already been deliberated on but I'll go again.
We've made some points clear.

1. Jesus is the firstborn of all God's creation and it was through Jesus that all other things were created, be it visible or invisible things. (Colossians 1:15,16, Revelation 3:14, John 1:3)

2. Jesus had a prehuman existence as a spirit creature in heaven, thereby making him an angel. (Proverbs 8:22-31, Micah 5:2, John 3:13, 6:38, 8:23, 58) John 8:58 --- Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”

3. Jesus then became a human(John 1:14, 1Timothy 3:16)

4. Michael is referred to as an archangel in the Bible(Jude 9)

5. Daniel 12:1 - “...Michael will stand up, the great prince of who is standing in behalf of your people.”

6. Isaiah 9:6 called Jesus, the “Prince of Peace”

7. At Matthew 13:41, Jesus said he will “...send his angels...” for a particular assignment.

8. 1Thessalonians 4:16 speaks of the time Jesus would return “...because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice...” And remember, the Bible only mentioned one archangel, so who else could the voice be referring to? If not Michael[Jesus]?

9. Even at 2Thessalonians 1:7, Jesus is spoken as having “his powerful angels”

10. Now, we read at Revelation 12:7 “...Michael and his angels battled with the dragon”

11. Jesus is the leader of God's army in executing His righteous judgments (Revelation 17:14, 19:13-16)
So since Jesus is the leader of God's army, wouldn't it be fair to say it was Jesus [under the name Michael] who carried out the attack on Satan and his angels and hurled them to the earth? The armies of angels in heaven are all united in one purpose to see God's will prevail and they number a “myriads of myriads” or “thousands of thousands” (Daniel 7:10, Revelation 5:11)
So they definitely must have somebody leading them into battle against opposers of God! Who else other than Jesus [Michael, who led the attack on Satan as we read earlier in Revelation 12:7]
Michael[Jesus]has been standing in behalf of his loyal and organized people on earth, Jehovah's Witnesses.
I'm never tired to defend my beliefs as you wrongly asserted. It's just that when I weigh the possible outcome and see that it is fruitless, I avoid the conversation altogether.

NO!
I no go gri!
You never show me where them write say "Jesus na Angel Michael"
Abegi Trinitarians won't kill person with their blind arguments!

Go and make some noise in the market square!
They are expecting you there for your usual Hellfire stuff!

johnw47:


oh duh know nothing lying twister of God's word making Him a liar, max

Isa 65:15  And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: 

the name of God's people the jews has become dishonorable
God's people are now called Christian

and truly false jw max, you false jw's who are ashamed to call yourselves christian
are a group belonging to satan, you are part of satans mob, oh blinded ones:

1Pe_4:16  Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

Act_11:26  And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.


2Co_4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Maximus69:
Go and make some noise in the market square!
They are expecting you there for your usual Hellfire stuff!

antichrist false jw max

i have rightly posted bible scripture showing your final
destination - the lake of fire

but show where i have ever preached hellfire

na, you just lying all the time like your daddy:

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

johnw47:


antichrist false jw max

i have rightly posted bible scripture showing your final
destination - the lake of fire

but show where i have ever preached hellfire

na, you just lying all the time like your daddy:

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Oh so you're now aware that there is no Hellfire in God's word shey?
Gradually you're somehow gaining some sense!

Maximus69:


God bless you again and again for this post!

Now if it's subject to personal revelation , and there is BENEFITIAL WORKS to show for it {James 2:18-26} is there any need for further argument?

know nothing antichrist false jw max

God doesn't bless people for falsehood
the Word/Jesus Christ created all the angels which includes the primary angels:

Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 
Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

of course you do the twist on those verses, that's your thing - making God a liar




by the way lying pharisee, just to remind you:

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Sorry!
Pele!
Ndo!
No be me do you, nah your village people Sir!

johnw47:


know nothing antichrist false jw max

God doesn't bless people for falsehood
the Word/Jesus Christ created all the angels which includes the primary angels:

Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 
Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

of course you do the twist on those verses, that's your thing - making God a liar




by the way lying pharisee, just to remind you:

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Maximus69:


Oh so you're now aware that there is no Hellfire in God's word shey?
Gradually you're somehow gaining some sense!

lying pharisee false jw max

like i said i haven't preached hellfire

but you of course cannot stop lying post after post, can you:

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Maximus69:
Sorry!
Pele!
Ndo!
No be me do you, nah your village people Sir!

cowardly false jw
i see, running away from truth yet again

God will surely punish those village people that turn you into this!

Surely God will punish them!

johnw47:


cowardly false jw
i see, running away from truth yet again