IMO the MVP'S for real madrid this season is the defence,especially cortoius.. 21goals is all nice and good,but without 18 clean sheets,those goals will only get them to probably 3rd or 4th..case study last season.
Benzema,did not show any marginal improvement this season,but the goalkeeper in this case did,anybody trying to dole out the mvp award to benzema is clearly being biased

airmark:


God bless you o. 21 goals in 36 matches, from a striker that played in front of quality midfielders.

Maybe he will have scored more than that if a certain Ikebe super bought with 100m did his job efficiently and managed to stay fit.

airmark:


Your fingers burnt to search online?

Benzema 2018/2019 - 21 goals

Benzema 2019/2020 - 21 goals

Still the same bag of beans.

So the same hand you used to type the above suddely became leprous when its time to tell us how many of them are also assist leaders in their team

Ibime:


That's just the way awards work, otherwise defenders will never win any individual honours. You usually go for the leader or organiser of the defence ie Ramos, VVD, Terry, Kompany etc. I'm sure if Ramos played his normal gung-ho style of defending, Varane would have continued to be unfortunate because Varane is a follower in defence, not a leader.

I no dey for this point and shout pattern as a metric for judging defenders. I judge defenders by ability and not for their perceived organizing traits.

Even within Madrid and league circles some will tell you Courtois was better and more important than Ramos. I've seen him hailed for keeping clean sheets and making important saves.

How can we categorically say Ramos has been more important than Courtois? This is why I no too send polling booth awards

Ibime:

No one can begrudge Benz some honours. The club should be pushing for him to be honoured because he sacrificed himself for nearly a decade for Ronaldo to score. When the responsibility fell on him, he did good and delivered a Championship. . . but not World Class like the defence. He deserves something for the years of sacrifice coupled with this year's performance. But normally, this year's POTY should go to Ramos.

The defense has been good but one of the reasons Defenders typically don't get awards is because at the end of the day it is still a collective. How really can we judge who was better between Ramos and Courtois.

With Benzema we know he was responsible for 42% of Madrid's goals. How do we quantify the defensive contributions of each player

simonjassy:
IMO the MVP'S for real madrid this season is the defence,especially cortoius.. 21goals is all nice and good,but without 18 clean sheets,those goals will only get them to probably 3rd or 4th..case study last season.
Benzema,did not show any marginal improvement this season,but the goalkeeper in this case did,anybody trying to dole out the mvp award to benzema is clearly being biased

Cc @Ibime

Shey you can see? Some will say Ramos, Some will say Courtois

A40:


Cc @Ibime

Shey you can see? Some will say Ramos, Some will say Courtois

For Madrid goals conceded some have said Ramos, Some Cortouis
Some will say its Mendy that stayed back more and more defensively aware than Marcelo used to, Some have said Casemiro that was covering them

So we have almost 6 layers claiming glory for Madrid low goals conceded

But the attack credit only goes to 1 person Kareem Benzema

Ibime:


Why can't Jovic give a 21 goal season as starting striker with confidence on his side? He's come close before in lesser team.

I rate Areola, that's why I'm not just going to rubbish him completely. Goalkeeper position is also a match-rhythm and Confidence position

Can Militao or Nacho what Ramos gave?

What is his antecedents of doing this? Even Adebayor did not deliver at Madrid and that was a proven striker. Why do you think Jovic will based on one or two good seasons?

Should we start listing the players that did well at small clubs and made big moves only to finish as historical flops?

raumdeuter:

For Madrid goals conceded some have said Ramos, Some Cortouis
Some will say its Mendy that stayed back more and more defensively aware than Marcelo used to, Some have said Casemiro that was covering them

So we have almost 6 layers claiming glory for Madrid low goals conceded

But the attack credit only goes to 1 person Kareem Benzema

Carvajal dey.

raumdeuter:


The drop from Cortouis to a Madrid standard goalkeeper is also not as steep as you are making it to sound. Keylor Navas won them the last league and 3 CL titles. Benzemas 8 assists is about tp 5 in the entire league

PSG #1 last season is Courtois's backup. Not some scrub

raumdeuter:

Atletico dont concede but lack of goals, Simeones side have conceded just 3 goals more than Madrid but are 20points behind Real Madrid because they scored 18 goals less than Madrid. That mean they will never win, All their clean sheets is wasted because no one will do the business on the other end I am sure Atletico with their solid defence will die to have a striker to deliver >= 29 g+a like Diego Costa did for them in 2014

The funny thing is Atletico every season are a clear proof that Defense doesn't actually win championships

The World class record breaking defense numbers is what Atletico do in their sleep but they have barely competed for a league title since 2014.

Doesn't matter how good your defense is, this is a league campaign. You still have to score.

raumdeuter:

For Madrid goals conceded some have said Ramos, Some Cortouis
Some will say its Mendy that stayed back more and more defensively aware than Marcelo used to, Some have said Casemiro that was covering them

So we have almost 6 layers claiming glory for Madrid low goals conceded

But the attack credit only goes to 1 person Kareem Benzema

Hazard dey...

He made 12 blocks and 6 headed clearance

A40:


Cc @Ibime

Shey you can see? Some will say Ramos, Some will say Courtois

The real problem here is the attacker comolex most people suffer from.Believing the attackers are the most important in any team.Everybody knows that scoring is not a problem for real madrid,their problem is not conceding.They are the exact opposite of atletico.If benzema was in atletico and he scored these goals leading to them winning the league trophy,he will undoubtedly be the MVP as defending is not a problem for atletico but scoring is.

A40:

PSG #1 last season is Courtois's backup. Not some scrub

The funny thing is Atletico every season are a clear proof that Defense doesn't actually win championships

The World class record breaking defense numbers is what Atletico do in their sleep but they have barely competed for a league title since 2014.

Doesn't matter how good your defense is, this is a league campaign. You still have to score.

Almost every season Atletico concedes less than 20 goals but theyhardly win because they dont have enough offence to win games.

simonjassy:
The real problem here is the attacker comolex most people suffer from.Believing the attackers are the most important in any team.Everybody knows that scoring is not a problem for real madrid,their problem is not conceding.They are the exact opposite of atletico.If benzema was in atletico and he scored these goals leading to them winning the league trophy,he will undoubtedly be the MVP as defending is not a problem for atletico but scoring is.

If scoring was not a problem for Madrid why do we have only 2 players with double digit, One being Ramos who scored mostly penalties

airmark:




2009-2010, Chelsea were the 2nd team that conceded least, so your point didn't stand.

Last season Benzema scored 21 goals and Madrid finished 3rd by scoring 63 goals and conceded 43. This season Benzema scored the same 21 goals but Madrid scored 68 and conceded jjust 23 and won the league. If you know how to analyse data, you will stop this Benzema nonsense and look at the main players that delivered the silverware, defending the goals from entering.

I didn't want to use any data, because i watched most of their league matches and know Courtois and Ramos were more consistent than the Algerian bag of beans.

Below is another confirmation that banging in massive goals alone is not enough. 2013/2014 Laliga table.

This stat explains it all.

I have not followed football for a long time like some of our ogas here, but the little I have followed it I know that the game is not just 1+1=2. And I believe that is why the game is the most followed game/sports on earth.

I did not watch any madrid match fully this season, so I can't tell who contributed more or not. Therefore, I am not joining in the Benzema argument. But I want to say this. Football is a team sports. And every member of the team contributes to the success of the team one way or the other. Although, not everyone has the same degree of contribution, but no position in the team is more important than the other. The midfielder is as important as the defender. The attacker is as important as the defender, and vice versa. Everyone on the pitch is important as long as they are doing their job, whatever it may be, very well.

Now, about those who downplay the importance of defence just because they feel emotionally attached to goals and the people that score them, here is my summation with an example.

The issue of clean sheet and more goals is not just black and white.

Let's say for instance, Chelsea have two matches to play to end the season, right?
Now, let's say we need maximum points, which is 6 points.
Now, let us use these two matches remaining for Chelsea as examples.

First.
Liverpool 0 : 4 Chelsea (Abraham 4 goals)
Wolves 1 : 1 Chelsea (Abraham 0 goal)

Second
Liverpool 1 : 2 Chelsea (Abraham 1 goal)
Wolves 0 : 1 Chelsea (Abraham 1 goal)

Third scenario.
Liverpool 0 : 0 Chelsea
Wolves 0 : 0 Chelsea

Fourth scenario
Liverpool 3 : 2 Chelsea
Wolves 2 : 1 Chelsea


First scenario = 4 points.
Second scenario = 6 points.
Third scenario = 2 points
Fourth scenario = 3 points


First scenario, the team did a good job if you total it, but no maximum points. And Abraham did a great job totally but when you look closely you will see comma.

Second scenario, the team did a great job if you look closely, but compared to the first one with total stats gathered, they didn't meet up, yet they got maximum points. Also, Abraham in the first scenario scored more, but did not do better than the second scenario.

Third and fourth scenario is self explanatory.

The conclusion is that it is not about total goals scored or total conceded at the end of the season, it is about the team performance every match day.
A striker's contribution is not when he scores 50 goals total, it is how many matches he was able to score in when the team needed it. That is, it is not about giving 9/10 performance in 30% of the season's matches, it is about giving consistent, at least, 7/10 in 80% of the season's matches. That is what is important.

raumdeuter:


If scoring was not a problem for Madrid why do we have only 2 players with double digit, One being Ramos who scored mostly penalties

please bring their goal ratios over the past 5 seasons for madrid.At least that should help us know if goals were hard for madrid to get

The club president, journalists all over the world are hailing Benzema for being the one who delivered the title to Madrid

Could it be that Florentino Perez did not notice Cortouis Ramos Carvajal Casemiro Mendy and Varane?

simonjassy:
please bring their goal ratios over the past 5 seasons for madrid.At least that should help us know if goals were hard for madrid to get

Goal scoring was a problem for Madrid THIS SEASON otherwise A defender taking penalties wont be the 2nd highest goal scorer

Greatihex:
This stat explains it all.

I have not followed football for a long time like some of our ogas here, but the little I have followed it I know that the game is not just 1+1=2. And I believe that is why the game is the most followed game/sports on earth.

I did not watch any madrid match fully this season, so I can't tell who contributed more or not. Therefore, I am not joining in the Benzema argument. But I want to say this. Football is a team sports. And every member of the team contributes to the success of the team one way or the other. Although, not everyone has the same degree of contribution, but no position in the team is more important than the other. The midfielder is as important as the defender. The attacker is as important as the defender, and vice versa. Everyone on the pitch is important as long as they are doing their job, whatever it may be, very well.

Now, about those who downplay the importance of defence just because they feel emotionally attached to goals and the people that score them, here is my summation with an example.

The issue of clean sheet and more goals is not just black and white.

Let's say for instance, Chelsea have two matches to play to end the season, right?
Now, let's say we need maximum points, which is 6 points.
Now, let us use these two matches remaining for Chelsea as examples.

First.
Liverpool 0 : 4 Chelsea (Abraham 4 goals)
Wolves 1 : 1 Chelsea (Abraham 0 goal)

Second
Liverpool 1 : 2 Chelsea (Abraham 1 goal)
Wolves 0 : 1 Chelsea (Abraham 1 goal)

Third scenario.
Liverpool 0 : 0 Chelsea
Wolves 0 : 0 Chelsea

Fourth scenario
Liverpool 3 : 2 Chelsea
Wolves 2 : 1 Chelsea


First scenario = 4 points.
Second scenario = 6 points.
Third scenario = 2 points
Fourth scenario = 3 points


First scenario, the team did a good job if you total it, but no maximum points. And Abraham did a great job totally but when you look closely you will see comma.

Second scenario, the team did a great job if you look closely, but compared to the first one with total stats gathered, they didn't meet up, yet they got maximum points. Also, Abraham in the first scenario scored more, but did not do better than the second scenario.

Third and fourth scenario is self explanatory.

The conclusion is that it is not about total goals scored or total conceded at the end of the season, it is about the team performance every match day.
A striker's contribution is not when he scores 50 goals total, it is how many matches he was able to score in when the team needed it. That is, it is not about giving 9/10 performance in 30% of the season's matches, it is about giving consistent, at least, 7/10 in 80% of the season's matches. That is what is important.

wonderful,better a striker who can assure me a goal every matchday than one who would score 4 today and disappear in the next two games

raumdeuter:


Goal scoring was a problem for Madrid THIS SEASON otherwise A defender taking penalties wont be the 2nd highest goal scorer

but defending has ALWAYS been the BIGGEST problem for madrid,year in year out..Including This SEASON.

simonjassy:
wonderful,better a striker who can assure me a goal every matchday than one who would score 4 today and disappear in the next two games

What do you understand by this stat

www.nairaland.com/attachments/11946259_kingbenz_jpeg43a615e12aef4fed3e55c09f5e15232b

simonjassy:
but defending has ALWAYS been the BIGGEST problem for madrid,year in year out..Including This SEASON.

How has defending been a problem for Madrid THIS SEASON

raumdeuter:


What do you understand by this stat

www.nairaland.com/attachments/11946259_kingbenz_jpeg43a615e12aef4fed3e55c09f5e15232b

that is basically 4 straight wins.when compared with the 18clean sheets guaranteeing them of 18 points,two more than benzema's

raumdeuter:


How has defending been a problem for Madrid THIS SEASON

how many goals did they concede last season compared to this season?

simonjassy:
that is basically 4 straight wins.when compared with the 18clean sheets guaranteeing them of 18 points,two more than benzema's

5 wins and a draw brother

raumdeuter:


Did Hazard lead Chelsea in goals and Assists in the 2015 league win like Benzema did?

the number of goals is useless if it does not win points. The aim of goals is to win points. Now, hazard's goals won more points than any other Chelsea player that season, so did he carry Chelsea to the title?

simonjassy:
that is basically 4 straight wins.when compared with the 18clean sheets guaranteeing them of 18 points,two more than benzema's

So one person delivered 16 points a group of 5 defenders/Keeper delivered 18 points

Do the Math

Greatihex:
the number of goals is useless if it does not win points. The aim of goals is to win points. Now, hazard's goals won more points than any other Chelsea player that season, so did he carry Chelsea to the title?

Hazard was not the top assister, he was not the top scorer. Unlike Benzema who was top scorer, top assister and player who gathered most points

So compare apples to apples

raumdeuter:


So one person delivered 16 points a group of 5 defenders/Keeper delivered 18 points

Do the Math

yeah,the 21 goals he scored,hr single handedly drove the ball through the opponents himself..ahbii?

Edopesin:

5 wins and a draw brother

no mind me,i dey reason 4x4..

simonjassy:
yeah,the 21 goals he scored,hr single handedly drove the ball through the opponents himself..ahbii?

He scored those goals in addition to leading in assists

Messi and Ronaldo who are acknowledged the best attackers of their generation do they singlehandedly drive the ball through the opponents themselves

raumdeuter:


Goal scoring was a problem for Madrid THIS SEASON otherwise A defender taking penalties wont be the 2nd highest goal scorer

you do make a valid point.But fixing what is usually not a problem(that is a short term problem.in this case goalscorinh) can't be compared on the same scale as fixing up what is a long term problem(conceding goals)

raumdeuter:


He scored those goals in addition to leading in assists

Messi and Ronaldo who are acknowledged the best attackers of their generation do they singlehandedly drive the ball through the opponents themselves

Since you are lumping all the defenders plus the gk into the 18 clean sheets nah.the 21 goals he cored,how many were non-assisted?