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How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation - Culture (22) - Nairaland

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Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by TAO11(f): 3:08pm On Aug 15, 2020
OfoIgbo:
With the above writeup from you, you have just categorically proven that Ife never had any hands in the crowning of any Benin Oba.

Every single Yoruba market day that you mentioned, is different from any of the Nri days which are also DEITIES. You don't consult deities by calling them a name that is not the deity's,

There's no way in heaven and on earth, a Yoruba priest can play a part in the dedication of a Benin king referring to deities that are not honoured by the would-be king..

The Igbo market days are the same as the Benin market days, and the Nris own the deities behind those market days, so already there's a spiritual common ground between the Nri Igbo and the Benin, making such dedications very compatible. I can guarantee you this, that the difference in days/deities automatically disqualifies any Ooni of Ife.

Do Yorubas perform Kolanut rituals like the Igbos or Bini people?
If truth is indeed what you seek, then the following should quench your thirst:

(1) Quoting word-for-word from D.M. Bondarenko — the world's leading authority on precolonial Benin history:

"Another important ethnohistorical piece of evidence is that during a new Oba' s coronation, Yoruba tribal marks were drawn with chalk on his cheeks and then erased when the ceremony was over*."

Crowder 1978:41 cited in Dmitri M. Bondarenko; "Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty: Assessment of a Benin History Key Point", History in Africa, Vol. 30 (2003), pp.71-72.


(2) ”Oduduwa” is venerated in Benin kingdom as a deity, in honour of the “oba’s paternal ancestors”.

Refer to the attached screenshot below for the details on this. Please note that it says: "Oduduwa" and not some evidently fictional and made-up “Izoduwa”, “Imadoduwa“, etc.

You may also read this directly from this web publication of The Art Institute of Chicago.

Important Note: When scholars talk of the Ife-Benin connection, they do not refer to the popular but false idea that the people of Benin are originally Yorubas.

No! The discussion, in fact, is that the people of Benin (and Edos more generally) are a different ethno-linguistic stock from the Yorubas.

The only point of connection being that Benin's second monarchy (which reigns supreme over the Edo nation) is a foreign one — a Yoruba dynasty whose kings trace their paternal genealogy to Yorubaland; Ife to be precise.

Cheers!

cc: LegendHero, MinorityOpinion, BabaRamota1980

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Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by BabaRamota1980: 4:33pm On Aug 15, 2020
TAO11:
If truth is indeed what you seek, then the following should quench your thirst:

(1) Quoting word-for-word from D.M. Bondarenko — the world's leading authority on precolonial Benin history:

"Another important ethnohistorical piece of evidence is that during a new Oba' s coronation, Yoruba tribal marks were drawn with chalk on his cheeks and then erased when the ceremony was over*."

Crowder 1978:41 cited in Dmitri M. Bondarenko; "Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty: Assessment of a Benin History Key Point", History in Africa, Vol. 30 (2003), pp.71-72.


(2) ”Oduduwa” is venerated in Benin kingdom as a deity, in honour of the “oba’s paternal ancestors”.

Refer to the attached screenshot below for the details on this. Please note that it says: "Oduduwa" and not some evidently fictional and made-up “Izoduwa”, “Imadoduwa“, etc.

You may also read this directly from this web publication of The Art Institute of Chicago.

Important Note: When scholars talk of the Ife-Benin connection, they do not refer to the popular but false idea that the people of Benin are originally Yorubas.

No! The discussion, in fact, is that the people of Benin (and Edos more generally) are a different ethno-linguistic stock from the Yorubas.

The only point of connection being that Benin's second monarchy (which reigns supreme over the Edo nation) is a foreign one — a Yoruba dynasty whose kings trace their paternal genealogy to Yorubaland; Ife to be precise.

Cheers!

cc: LegendHero, MinorityOpinion, BabaRamota1980

It has been stressed, infact overstressed and over empasized, that there are two classes of backgrounds in Benin, a Yoruba ruling class, different and distinct from the Edo slave class.

Edos want to erase that distinction line. They started using Benin and Edo interchangeably. Benin is Yoruba, Edo, which was thr name given by Ogiso dynasty to the original forest dwellers they met.

Both names, Benin and Edo were given to the uncivilized natives. The original identity of the natives is lost. I believe either mayor of lagos or macof, somebody mentioned it one time. I wish i had saved it but they were not originally known as Edo. Edo was given by Ife chiefs, the Ogisos that ruled igodomigodo.

Edos lexicon must contain h, v, gh, z, kp, letters. Their language is consistent with Urhobo and different from Yoruba. Hence all the terms of office and titular positions and name places of Yoruba influence in Benin are devoid of the Edo lexicon.


Cc
Tao11
Metaphysical
Legendhero
Minorityopinion

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Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Hellraiser77: 4:40pm On Aug 15, 2020
[s]
TAO11:
Thanks bro, I felt your comment. Real recognize real. smiley
[/s] More like fraud recognise fraud undecided

2 Likes

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by TAO11(f): 4:49pm On Aug 15, 2020
@OfoIgbo

In case you still care further for truth (as I noticed you’ve lately began sharing my posts), then the following is a British Museum documentary which affirms the same information.

It is affirmed positively and emphatically from time-stamps 48:22 — 48:38 that the kings of Benin kingdom pay homage to the Oonis of Ife.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQY_Jd--pwI

cc: LegendHero, MinorityOpinion, BabaRamota1980.

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Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by TAO11(f): 5:18pm On Aug 15, 2020
Hellraiser77:
More like fraud recognise fraud undecided
If this helps you sleep at night. No problems.

Intellectually however, we clearly have little or nothing in common. This is obvious to all and sundry.

5 Likes 1 Share

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Nobody: 5:32pm On Aug 15, 2020
TAO11:
@Oflogbo:

In case you still care further for truth (as I noticed you’ve lately began sharing my posts), then the following is a British Museum documentary which affirms the same information.

It is affirmed positively and emphatically from time-stamps 48:22 — 48:38 that the kings of Benin kingdom pay homage to the Oonis of Ife.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQY_Jd--pwI

cc: LegendHero, MinorityOpinion, BabaRamota1980.

Thank you sir! Now you shut him up!

2 Likes

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by BabaRamota1980: 5:32pm On Aug 15, 2020
TAO11:
@Oflogbo:

In case you still care further for truth (as I noticed you’ve lately began sharing my posts), then the following is a British Museum documentary which affirms the same information.

It is affirmed positively and emphatically from time-stamps 48:22 — 48:38 that the kings of Benin kingdom pay homage to the Oonis of Ife.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQY_Jd--pwI

cc: LegendHero, MinorityOpinion, BabaRamota1980.

Are you asking ofoigbo to read and watch video? The bloody cannibal is busy setting ambush for one of the clan members in next autonomous village. Pot go full today!

I will use Edo witch broomstick to flog any yanminri that dare reply this post.

3 Likes

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by TAO11(f): 5:35pm On Aug 15, 2020
BabaRamota1980:


Are you asking ofoigbo to read and watch video? The bloody cannibal is busy setting ambush for one of the clan members in next autonomous village. Pot go full today!

I will use Edo witch broomstick to flog any yanminri that dare reply this post.
Lol grin. I think he became quite reasonable lately as he began sharing my comments — including those addressed to refute him.

4 Likes

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by TAO11(f): 5:40pm On Aug 15, 2020
MinorityOpinion:


Thank you sir! Now you shut him up!
True!

But I kind of feel bad that I killed the fun too early. cry

The “most power monarch” of our region of Africa (according to the European accounts) is none other than the Ooni of Ife to whom the kings of Benin paid homage. cool

QED!

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Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Nobody: 5:42pm On Aug 15, 2020
BabaRamota1980:


The portuguese and dutch that visited Benin were not historians and they were not anthropologists nor archeologists, they were merchants and came for trade. They chronicled their observations.

The information triggered interest in the academic circle. Explorers began to piece together various accounts published by merchants and sailors across kingdoms and empires of Africa and set to out to investigate.

They found out some accounts in publication needed revision. For example maps, bodies of water, location of kingdoms and so on. Where one explorer left off, another picks up from behind. This is how with help of cartographers proper and detailed maps were drawn for West Africa.

In some of the publications by merchants and sailors Benin was said to cover half the landmass of West Africa. Explorers and cartographers found this to be an error, and deemed it due to lack of contact. This led to exploration of interior of West Africa. One of the places they were looking for was the capital of Imperial Ife. As far away as Mauritania Arabic scholars had also written about Ife (Nyffe).

Explorers knew those merchants were buying slaves on the coast but the stock came from interior. So they followed slave tracks to gain access into the interior.
Some entered West Africa from Senegal and Gambia, some from Badagry and others from Agadez in the desert and Darfur from the Nile. This is how they discovered River Niger and decided to map it. Its why Mungo Park was here. Its why Livingstone was here. Its why Clapperton and Lander was here.

The explorers also collected information and published them. This is how Ahmed Baba's knowledge of Yoruba and Sultan Bello's knowledge of Yoruba came about. Clapperton and Landers followed slave tracks beginning at Badagry inward to Oyo to Kano.

Explorers were followed by new age merchants. Slave trade was stopped. Stopping slave trade involved military and therefore a political dimension was introduced. The politics and its guns were used to force take over of ports and lands from which humans were previously shipped. Trade in new commodities from interior had its own challenges as well. To force commodity traffic to the merchant ships the interior must also be given same gun and mortar treatment as was done in coast. Therefore political administrators were given command authority to order war against natives. As this was going on missionaries followed behind the massacre to convert battered spirits to christianity. Behind missionaries came historians, anthropologists, archeologists who wanted to tie together the loose ends of our links and cultures.

This is how Egharevba came into prominence. This also why Leo Frobenius was in Nigeria. It is why Law, Smith, Blier, and many others were able to investigate, inspect, enquire, exhume and record their findings using the process of acceptable academic standards. Their scholarship work is what we have all been throwing around.

Scholars that visited Benin also visited Ife. Why is that?
It's because they need to listen to both sides of the story. There must have been a story told in Benin that pointed at Ife.

Ofoigbo, my first question to you here is, why didn't any scholar leave Benin to come to Nri for follow up? Why didn't Egharevba mention Nri?


After political administrators had gained proper hold of Southern Nigeria, they needed a tiered structure that would connect their purpose with that of the culture on ground. To do that they introduced indirect ruling and also combined cultures with historical ties and kinship. Hence the kinship and history between the head of jamaa in Ilorin and Sokoto gave reason to put Ilorin to North. The kinship and history between the head of Benin Kingdom (which extended to Asaba) and Ife is reason that Western region stretched to River Niger at Asaba.

Clans that had no kings were assigned warrant officers to rule over them for administration.

Ofoigbo, second question, why didn't colonial administrator connect Benin to Nri even when Asaba and its environs are Ibo speaking people? Why didn't Oba of Benin correct them and insist to be grouped with his ancestral place in Nri?

In the history of Benin there has only been one Oba that claimed not to come from Ife. The same Oba was instrumental in removing midwest from west. He wanted political independence. He got it in the referendum of 63. Three years later, in Jan 66, Ibos seized his domain and declared it a Biafran territory. A decisive blow and embarassment. He gradually became more isolated and bitter and sought to exert his neutrality and independence even more fiercely, hence the nonsense about Benin did not come from Ife. The current king has reconciled the dynasty back to its Ife root when on ascension he declared Eweka was first Oba of Benin.

Ofoigbo, here is my third question, the title of Benin monarch is Omo n'Oba. Does this mean anything in Nri?



To cap, the link between Nri and Benin is phantom, exists only in Ibo mind. Even in Iboland there are groups that refuse to accept Nri as Ibo and they believe it was a creation of Igala. These people say Aro is the authentic Igbo progenitor and Nri is fake. So if amongst your own clan Nri is held to be non-authorative and is considered subordinate to Aro, how could Nri now become the overlord of a foreign monarchy that Benin traditions say came from Ife. The Edos say their Ogisos sent emissaries to Ife to request that a prince come to rule them. This is how Oranmiyan entered Edo and had a child Eweka who the current Oba of Benin certified as the first Omo n'Oba.


Nri need to go and find their lost child somewhere else, he is not in Benin. Maybe you meant Benue. Benin and Benue are similar in spelling but not same abeg.

Until you find your son king in Benue, Igbo enwe eze!

Cc
Tao11
Legendhero
Minorityopinion
Metaphysical

Fantastic! wink wink putting the guy in his place

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Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by BabaRamota1980: 5:51pm On Aug 15, 2020
TAO11:
Lol grin. I think he became quite reasonable lately as he began sharing my comments — including those addressed to refute him.

Oh ok i go give him slack. grin

3 Likes

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by BabaRamota1980: 5:57pm On Aug 15, 2020
TAO11:
True!

But I kind of feel bad that I killed the fun too early. cry

The “most power monarch” of our region of Africa is none other than the Ooni of Ife to whom the kings of Benin paid homage. cool

QED!

Ooni was known as far away as Mauritania amongst the Moors who called him the Imperial King of Nyffe.

2 Likes

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by SaintBeehot(m): 5:58pm On Aug 15, 2020
TAO11:
True!

But I kind of feel bad that I killed the fun too early. cry

The “most power monarch” of our region of Africa is none other than the Ooni of Ife to whom the kings of Benin paid homage. cool

QED!
you see that second picture, if I don't save it Modakeke people ( my ancestors) will not let me be grin

1 Like

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Karanka: 6:07pm On Aug 15, 2020
ThatFairGuy:

What I read(documented Igbo's history) is quite similar as the emboldened.
Their history is quite shameful, that's why it was prevented from public knowledge.

A chimpanzee had intercourse with a girl in the wild and beget a child who happens to be thier ANCESTOR.

THAT'S WHAT I READ
You're too old for this rubbish na. haba!

1 Like

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by TAO11(f): 6:08pm On Aug 15, 2020
BabaRamota1980:
Ooni was known as far away as Mauritania amongst the Moors who called him the Imperial King of Nyffe.
True! S. P. Blier touched on those information. J.E.G. Sutton also did at great length.

The 1331 and 1352 accounts of the Arab travelled Ibn Battuta touched on Ife. The latter touches specifically on its trade links with the Mali empire.

His 1352 account on Ife, collected from Mali, states that Ife was one of the “most considerable countries of the Soudan” which ”No white man can enter ... because the negros will kill him before he arrives”.

For the fun, the following are some of the word-for-quotations from Professor Suzanne P. Blier’s “Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity c. 1300”, Cambridge University Press, 2015.

(1) “During the era of Ife’s greatest historic power, the twelfth to fifteenth centuries C.E., its influence spanned eastward to the Niger River and westward to what is today southern Togo ... Evidence of Ife’s commercial power extended far beyond, however, and examples of Ife’s famous translucent blue-green [dichroic] glass segi have been found as far away as Ghana, Mali, and Mauritania.” — p.2.

(2) “This suggests that Ife’s current monarch is the leader of one of the three earliest founded surviving dynasties in the world (along with Japan (c.660 B.C.E.) and Rajasthan (c.734 C.E.).” — p.36.

PS:
The above, among several others, seem to me to quite fairly corroborate the ancient Yoruba traditional belief which holds strongly that all monarchies in the world trace back (directly or indirectly) to Ile-Ife.

Will someone explain to me why a 2005 exhibition of Ife was (1)entitled as “When God Lived in Ife” and (2)held at the Strazzi Palace in Florence ??

Cheers!

cc:
cc: BabaRamota1980, LegendHero, MinorityOpinion.

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Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Karanka: 6:19pm On Aug 15, 2020
Etinosa1234:

Jus look at ur last statement...

Aren't u also doing what u don't want other tribes to do?

There is no proof of the 90% of ur claims...

U are the revisionist
I can see that you want to learn more,but you're allowing ego and unnecessary superiority tussle to becloud you.
OfoIgbo never said anything that could diminish the glory of your tribe,yet you charged in with blazing guns.
Some few years ago on this forum, Benin folks never did agree that there was Igbo influence on Benin. But here you are now admitting that there was,howbeit spiritual.
My advice is for you to first of all listen to all sides of the narratives before vehemently disagreeing.

2 Likes

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by BabaRamota1980: 6:40pm On Aug 15, 2020
TAO11:
True! Suzanne P. Blier’s touched on those information. at length.

The 1352 account of the Arab travelled Ibn Battuta touches on the trade links between the the Mali empire and Ife.

His account on Ife (which was collected from Mali) states that Ife was one of the “most considerable countries of the Soudan” which ”No white man can enter ... because the negros will kill him before he arrives”.

For the fun of it, the following are some of the word-for-quotations from Professor Suzanne P. Blier’s :

(1) “During the era of Ife’s greatest historic power, the twelfth to fifteenth centuries C.E., its influence spanned eastward to the Niger River and westward to what is today southern Togo ... Evidence of Ife’s commercial power extended far beyond, however, and examples of Ife’s famous translucent blue-green [dichroic] glass segi have been found as far away as Ghana, Mali, and Mauritania.” — p.2.

(2) “This suggests that Ife’s current monarch is the leader of one of the three earliest founded surviving dynasties in the world the world (along with Japan (c.660 B.C.E.) and Rajasthan (c.734 C.E.).” — p.36.

Thanks for this info.

Now, where is Rajasthan, was this old Persia?

I once met an Iranian who shared history of his country. He said India was formerly known as Hindustan and that all the territories formated in xxxxxxstan were once domain of the Persian king.

3 Likes

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by TAO11(f): 6:43pm On Aug 15, 2020
BabaRamota1980:


Thanks for this info.

Now, where is Rajasthan, was this old Persia?

I once met an Iranian who shared history of his country. He said India was formerly known as Hindustan and that all the territories formated in xxxxxxstan were once domain of the Persian king.
Yes, it’s a state in India. But I don’t know if it’s Old Persia or not.

2 Likes

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Karanka: 7:01pm On Aug 15, 2020
TAO11:
Yes, the scholars knew the bold, yet historical scholarship identifies the Ogane as the Ooni of Ife. And interestingly, not a single historian or scholar identified the Ogane as an Igbo king (only on Nairaland).

All scholars noted that the “east” in the document is of a religious non-literal significance. And Ife is well attested (among cultures throughout the Gulf of Guinea) by the religious epithet of “east” — the place from where the sun rises.

Moreover, every received detail of that account matches none other than the Ooni of Ife.

Name me one scholar (not Nairalander) who identified the Ogane as an Igbo king. None!
So what does 'Ogane' mean in Yoruba?

1 Like

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by BabaRamota1980: 7:31pm On Aug 15, 2020
Karanka:

So what does 'Ogane' mean in Yoruba?

Ancient Ife was capital of the indigeneous terracotta civilization which spanned the Niger-Benue basin. Their priest kings dressed in red and the citizenry had both clay and iron crafts. The iron smiths worshipped Ogun, the Yoruba deity. Ogun is the divinity and his representation or deputy that oversees affairs of mankind on his behalf is the priest- king and his title is Ogane. Ogiso were the custodians that Ogane dispatches to carry out state duties and continuation of Ogun's work. This is how Ogun got to Edos.
Im copying meta he knows these things much more.

Cc
Tao11
Metaphysical

2 Likes

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Hellraiser77: 7:49pm On Aug 15, 2020
BabaRamota1980:


Ancient Ife was capital of the indigeneous terracotta civilization which spanned the Niger-Benue basin. Their priest kings dressed in red and the citizenry had both clay and iron crafts. The iron smiths worshipped Ogun, the Yoruba deity. Ogun is the divinity and his representation or deputy that oversees affairs of mankind on his behalf is the priest- king and his title is Ogane. Ogiso were the custodians that Ogane dispatches to carry out state duties and continuation of Ogun's work. This is how Ogun got to Edos.
Im copying meta he knows these things much more.

Cc
Tao11
Metaphysical
Bini royalty clearly Stated that Ogane ruled from the East, while your so called Ife is to the west grin

The only Kingdom east of Bini is The NRI, why do yeroba history rely so much on distorting facts and twisting meaning?

3 Likes

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by TAO11(f): 8:01pm On Aug 15, 2020
Karanka:
So what does 'Ogane' mean in Yoruba?
Good question! First of all, nobody said “Ogane”, by itself, is precisely a Yoruba word.

This particular word — according to João de Barros’ account — is Ogané. In order words, it is a Portuguese rendition of an indigenous Bini word by which the Binis described this “most powerful monarch” to Joao Afonso d’Aveiros in circa 1480.

In the account of Duarte Pacheco Pereira on the other hand, the Dutch rendition of the indigenous Bini word describing this “most powerful monarch” is Houguanee.

The above Portuguese and Dutch renditions (i.e. “Ogané” and “Houguanee” respectively) thus beg the question of what the actual indigenous Bini word itself was.

The only Bini word which not only corresponds closely to these foreign renditions, but which is also used in Benin traditional accounts to refer to the monarch of Ife is the indigenous word “Oghene” — which in Edo language means: the great-lord.

The Binis till date in their traditional/cultural setting still refer to the “Ooni of Ife” as “Oghene n’Uhe”. See: [url=https://books.google.com/books?id=fRBqDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT200&lpg=PT200&dq=Oghene+n%27Uhe&source=bl&ots=2PQ5iBUUfN&sig=ACfU3U3v7VSlqF07YMELUTv6R95W7_MqHA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjY5Jen6p3rAhXAhHIEHQFvBz8Q6AEwB3oECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=Oghene%20n&f=false]R. E. Bradbury’s “Benin Studies”[/url] for example.

So far, my discussion has been from the Benin side, and that is due obviously to the fact that the actual actual accounts about this “most powerful monarch” (the Portuguese’s and the Dutch’s) were collected from there.

But to make things even more interesting and detailed, I will share something on the Yoruba side of things.

From the Yoruba side, the distinctive royal title of the monarch of Ife is “Ooni”. This word literally means “the one who owns [everything]”.

From a linguistic perspective moreover, it is easy to see that the Yoruba “Ooni” and the Bini ”Oghene” (used in this context obviously to address the same individual — the monarch of Ife) are actually cognate terms.

In fact, even a cursory familiarity with elision and elongation in Yoruba language makes it obvious that the elongation of the syllable “oo” in “Ooni” (by doubling the letter “o”) indicates that this word derives from an etymon common to both itself and the Bini “Oghene”.

This idea is more obvious in the elongation of the “o” in “Ooduwa” — an indication of the fact that “Ooduwa” (or “Oodua” ) involves some syllabic elisions from the longer variant “Oduduwa”.

Cheers.

cc: LegendHero, MinorityOpinion, BabaRamota1980

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Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Hellraiser77: 8:06pm On Aug 15, 2020
TAO11:
True! S. P. Blier touched on those information. J.E.G. Sutton also did at great length.

The 1331 and 1352 accounts of the Arab travelled Ibn Battuta touched on Ife. The latter touches specifically on its trade links with the Mali empire.

His 1352 account on Ife, collected from Mali, states that Ife was one of the “most considerable countries of the Soudan” which ”No white man can enter ... because the negros will kill him before he arrives”.

For the fun, the following are some of the word-for-quotations from Professor Suzanne P. Blier’s “Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity c. 1300”, Cambridge University Press, 2015.

(1) “During the era of Ife’s greatest historic power, the twelfth to fifteenth centuries C.E., its influence spanned eastward to the Niger River and westward to what is today southern Togo ... Evidence of Ife’s commercial power extended far beyond, however, and examples of Ife’s famous translucent blue-green [dichroic] glass segi have been found as far away as Ghana, Mali, and Mauritania.” — p.2.

(2) “This suggests that Ife’s current monarch is the leader of one of the three earliest founded surviving dynasties in the world (along with Japan (c.660 B.C.E.) and Rajasthan (c.734 C.E.).” — p.36.

PS:
The above, among several others, seem to me to quite fairly corroborate the ancient Yoruba traditional belief which holds strongly that all monarchies in the world trace back (directly or indirectly) to Ile-Ife.

Will someone explain to me why a 2005 exhibition of Ife was (1)entitled as “When God Lived in Ife” and (2)held at the Strazzi Palace in Florence ??

Cheers!

cc:
cc: BabaRamota1980, LegendHero, MinorityOpinion.
Not only is yoruba History based on myth and fairy tales it also lacked any form of Originality.

NRI is way out of IFEs league, while Nri kingdom peaked much earlier, your European accounts are from a time NRI was already deep in decline with its influence waning giving rise to the independence of its former areas of influence......Bini, Igala and IFE.

Nri is from a time without any form of records or accounts, this doesn't erase it's footprint and legacy, Nri and it's influences are way too old to compare with

At any attempt to read IFE History I'm always met with elaborate fables and tales that make a mockery of History

That Europeans or anybody picked interest in IFE fables doesn't lend any credence to it.

IFE is not as old as Bini not to talk of Nri, Nobody will swallow your crap because it was told by Europeans or anybody for that matter

3 Likes

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by TAO11(f): 8:13pm On Aug 15, 2020
I’m glad reasonable and true Igbos like OfoIgbo and Karanka have began to learn by putting aside sheer ego and bitterness. Lately they’ve sought to answer some fairly genuine questions.

They could clearly tell the obvious difference between imagining history and citing historical sources and scholarship.

Kudos to you guys for being progressive rather than stuck in bitterness.

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Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Etinosa1234: 8:15pm On Aug 15, 2020
Karanka:
[s]
I can see that you want to learn more,but you're allowing ego and unnecessary superiority tussle to becloud you.
OfoIgbo never said anything that could diminish the glory of your tribe,yet you charged in with blazing guns.
Some few years ago on this forum, Benin folks never did agree that there was Igbo influence on Benin. But here you are now admitting that there was,howbeit spiritual.
My advice is for you to first of all listen to all sides of the narratives before vehemently disagreeing[/s].

Go to sleep....what TAO11 and the rest Yorubas have written here should convinced u that ur history is only post 1900

Prior to that...it was nothing to write home abt...

Have u even check the meaning of Igbo...

That should educate u the more

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Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Hellraiser77: 8:15pm On Aug 15, 2020
TAO11:
Good question! First of all, nobody said it is precisely a Yoruba word.

This particular word — according to João de Barros’ account — is “Ogané”. In order words, it is a Portuguese rendition of an indigenous Bini word by which the Binis described this “most powerful monarch” to Joao Afonso d’Aveiros in circa 1480.

In the account of Duarte Pacheco Pereira on the other hand, the Dutch rendition of the indigenous Bini word word describing this “most powerful monarch” was Houguanee.

The above Portuguese and Dutch renditions (i.e. “Ogané” and “Houguanee” respectively) thus beg the question of what the actual indigenous Bini word itself was.

The only Bini word which not only corresponds closely to these foreign renditions, but which is also used in Benin traditional accounts to refer to the monarch of Ife is the indigenous word “Oghene” — which in Edo language means: great-lord. The Binis till date in traditional/cultural setting still refer to the “Ooni of Ife” as “Oghene n’Uhe”. See: [url=https://books.google.com/books?id=fRBqDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT200&lpg=PT200&dq=Oghene+n%27Uhe&source=bl&ots=2PQ5iBUUfN&sig=ACfU3U3v7VSlqF07YMELUTv6R95W7_MqHA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjY5Jen6p3rAhXAhHIEHQFvBz8Q6AEwB3oECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=Oghene%20n'Uhe&f=false]R.E. Bradbury’s “Benin Studies”[/url] for example.

So far, my discussion has been from the Benin side, and that is because these accounts about this “most powerful monarch” was collected from there. But to make this explanation even more interesting and comprehensive, I will share something on the Yoruba side of things.

From the Yoruba side, the distinctive royal title of the monarch of Ife is “Ooni”. This word literally means “the one who owns [everything]”.

From a linguistic perspective moreover, it is easy to see that the Yoruba “Ooni” and the Bini ”Oghene” (used in this context to address the same individual) are actually cognates.

In fact, even a cursory familiarity with the practice of elision and elongation in Yoruba language will make it clear that the elongation of the syllable “oo” in “Ooni” (by doubling the letter “o”) indicates that this word derives from an etymon common to itself and the Bini “Oghene”.

This idea is more obvious in the practice of elongating the “o” in “Ooduwa” — an indication of the fact that “Ooduwa” (or “Oodua” ) involves some syllabic elisions from “Oduduwa”.

Cheers.

cc: LegendHero, MinorityOpinion, BabaRamota1980
This is laughably dubious grin

1-The Bini never refered to the Ooni as oghene anywhere.

2-Oghene was clearly stated to rule from an eastern Direction, Nri is east from Bini not as far as IFE which is no anywhere near the east of Bini

3: Oghene has nothing to do with IFE otherwise Bini would have said so

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Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by TAO11(f): 8:17pm On Aug 15, 2020
Hellraiser77:
This is laughably dubious grin

1-The Bini never refered to the Ooni as oghene anywhere.

2-Oghene was clearly stated to rule from an eastern Direction, Nri is east from Bini not as far as IFE which is no anywhere near the east of Bini

3: Oghene has nothing to do with IFE otherwise Bini would have said so

You may have missed it. Lol.

https://books.google.com/books?id=fRBqDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT200&lpg=PT200&dq=Oghene+n%27Uhe&source=bl&ots=2PQ5iBUUfN&sig=ACfU3U3v7VSlqF07YMELUTv6R95W7_MqHA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjY5Jen6p3rAhXAhHIEHQFvBz8Q6AEwB3oECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=Oghene%20n'Uhe&f=false

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Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Hellraiser77: 8:21pm On Aug 15, 2020
Etinosa1234:


Go to sleep....what TAO11 and the rest Yorubas have written here should convinced u that ur history is only post 1900

Prior to that...it was nothing to write home abt...

Have u even check the meaning of Igbo...

That should educate u the more
Igbo history is too ancient and complicated to compare with kingdoms that only peaked in 1400bc, Bini and Ife are way too young

The Europeans arrived at a time when Igbo influence has declined so much giving rise to the Igala and Bini, Hence their focus on Bini and IFE which had more influence at the time.

Of all the Niger-Congo cultures of Southern Nigeria, Igbo remains the oldest The current Ooni of IFE affirms this fact

3 Likes

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Hellraiser77: 8:25pm On Aug 15, 2020
TAO11:


You may have missed it. Lol.

https://books.google.com/books?id=fRBqDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT200&lpg=PT200&dq=Oghene+n%27Uhe&source=bl&ots=2PQ5iBUUfN&sig=ACfU3U3v7VSlqF07YMELUTv6R95W7_MqHA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjY5Jen6p3rAhXAhHIEHQFvBz8Q6AEwB3oECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=Oghene%20n'Uhe&f=false
There is nothing in your link to support the fact that the Bini refered to Ooni as Oghene undecided

I've come to the conclusion that you are utterly closed minded and hell bent on Dressing fables as truth

2 Likes

Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Etinosa1234: 8:30pm On Aug 15, 2020
Hellraiser77:
Igbo history is too ancient and complicated to compare with kingdoms that only peaked in 1400bc, Bini and Ife are way too young

The Europeans arrived at a time when Igbo influence has declined so much giving rise to the Igala and Bini, Hence their focus on Bini and IFE which had more influence at the time.

Of all the Niger-Congo cultures of Southern Nigeria, Igbo remains the oldest The current Ooni of IFE affirms this fact

1400 Lol...when did oguola build the most...
.when did uwaifioku die ...when did oba ewuare start building the Empire

Read more abt the nri...they were militarily and politically useless.....

When the Europeans came to ur place, they found out that y'all reside in the bush and it was "every man be ruler" over there...

Why was warrant chiefs installed there if there were traditional rulers

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