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Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Etrusen(m): 1:10am On Dec 02, 2020 |
The quote from Oba Akenzua 11 is so inspiring to all who seek to make Africa great again. the link shows the uniqueness of old benin empire and it largeness from east to west and even outside Nigeria. THE QUOTE ! " I Would rather serve my God in the Benin way, I would rather worship Him in the Benin manner, I will sing songs of praise to Him in Benin custom, unless it can be proven to me He does not understand the Benin language". Quote by Oba Akenzua II of Benin. THE LINK! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j8KOS9X70U 1 Like |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Goldp5988(f): 3:32am On Dec 02, 2020 |
Etrusen: THE QUOTE ! " I Would rather serve my God in the Benin way, I would rather worship Him in the Benin manner, I will sing songs of praise to Him in Benin custom, unless it can be proven to me He does not understand the Benin language". Quote by Oba Akenzua II of Benin. Was he a Christian? |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Etrusen(m): 9:22am On Dec 02, 2020 |
Goldp5988: does it matter ? after all we all worship God |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Abovebonny: 12:43am On Dec 05, 2020 |
Oxford definition of "empire": a group of countries or states that are controlled by one ruler or government e.g. the Roman Empire. Considering Benin's borders never extended beyond the Niger River, let alone outside of Nigeria's boarders, means that it does not qualify for empire status. The Benin Kingdom was just that, a kingdom. The map I've provided shows just how small Benin was, comparable in size and influence to the Nri kingdom. Look at Mali, Songhai, Ghana & Akan these can be classified as empires as they fit the definition perfectly. I still think The Benin Kingdom was a formidable and rich culture with deep spiritual and militaristic traditions, but they weren't an expansionist enterprise like the other larger west African empires. Even Oyo, the largest Yoruba kingdom was far greater territorially than Benin. Please stop overstating history because you have a bias towards a particular topic. 6 Likes
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Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Etrusen(m): 4:30am On Dec 05, 2020 |
Abovebonny: ok thank u bye bye saying Oyo is more greater than benin and it never extended beyond it torritory is enough reason for me not to argue with you the Oyo u claim can't be found in your own map where others are shown in west Africa you claim it to be great maybe by fighting against fellow Yoruba's in Dahomey and the Benin you claim is small is all over Yoruba land and Nri land not the migrants that fled Benin to a far location eg those far in Imo state and even Benin republic you people keep comparing Oyo that only fought with fellow Yoruba's and couldn't unite the language to Benin. that only war Oyo fought against another tribe was the Fulani and they were defeated and you come here to make about it. there is no difference between Yoruba and Igbo monarch were each community have entirely independent monarch. 2 Likes |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Obalatule: 11:02am On Dec 05, 2020 |
Etrusen:Bini was at best a big kingdom, stop bastardising that word empire 6 Likes |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by gregyboy(m): 11:15am On Dec 05, 2020 |
Obalatule: Benin Kingdom is edo people Benin empire is outside edo, kogi, delta lagos, ogun, osun ondo, ekiti Now you can use yout brain |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Obalatule: 11:36am On Dec 05, 2020 |
gregyboy:lol.....provide evidence of Bini rulership over this places or crawl back to your Bini land cursed with eternal violence 1 Like |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Ideadoctor(m): 12:01pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Benin for where, do your research, Benin was never an empire, maybe a kingdom, as a matter of fact Songhai empire is the largest and dominant African empire, others include, Mali,Oyo,Ghana empire and sokoto caliphate respectively, it was by extension that Benin was regarded as an empire 5 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Etinosa12345: 12:07pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Abovebonny: Ur explanation already gave u away... Benin according to u controlled the land up to the Niger River but not beyond |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by gregyboy(m): 12:57pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Obalatule: And if i do would you agree to pay me 5k for making me waste my time for an obviously known fact |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Abovebonny: 5:51pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Etinosa12345: I made the point to illustrate how small Benin was... The Benin Kingdom did not control any part of the Niger River, which was a major trade network they could have taken advantage of, but never did. 1 Like |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Abovebonny: 6:03pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Etrusen: Look at the map again, left of Benin it says Yoruba and this represents the Oyo Kingdom which was clearly much larger & had greater influence. The Yorubas influence stretched as far west as Ghana, hence the Ga people who are directly related to the Yorubas. The Yorubas engaged in far more conflict than Benin. Although Benin had a large army they never put it into action like the Hausas or Yorubas did. Even the Different Igbo tribes were constantly at war with their neighbours and with each other. Benin is very ancient yes, but not very formidable in terms of conquest. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Etinosa12345: 6:27pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Abovebonny: Yes but they traded with the Portuguese,dutch, British... Using another trade network .. so there was no need for the river niger According to ur explanation, Benin should be called an Empire because they controlled kingdoms up till the Niger River which u said Considering Benin's borders never extended beyond the Niger River, Are u implying that Benin directly borders the river niger or there were no kingdom from Benin to the the river niger |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Abovebonny: 6:56pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Etinosa12345: Empires are large and stretch across vast amounts of land with many different people from other nations. The Benin Kingdom consisted of other smaller communities of people but they never conquered a nation, Benin never conquered the Igbo, Yoruba Ijaw or any other major tribe in the region. Let’s compare Benin to Rome. Rome began as a small city state on the Italian Peninsular surrounded by other Latin & Greek city states. Rome eventually conquered the surrounding peoples and secured Italy. It was only then that Rome became a Republic (Kingdom). Rome then expanded into Greece, Iberia, Gaul, Britannia etc etc... The Roman Republic was now an empire. Look at The Roman Empire on the map, now that’s a true empire... not Benin... 6 Likes
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Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by samuk: 7:21pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Abovebonny: Below is how the Alaafin of Oyo described the Oba of Benin in time past. The Alaafin in 1911 seems to have provided his own idea of the power the kings of Benin had once held, from an African (Oyo Yoruba) perspective. Anyway, the statement from Clapperton: 1. "In the evening we had a visit from the king (Alaafin of Oyo), to thank me for the presents I had given him, and again to assure me of being welcolme; said that he wanted nothing, unless it was something that would speedily cause the submission of the rebels. He said that he had sent to his friend the king of Benin for troops to assist him in the war." - Hugh Clapperton, Journal of a Second Expedition Into the Interior of Africa, from the Bight of Benin to Soccatoo 2. "The kingdom of Benin was so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told a British governor that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its king." - Asibong Akpan Okon, The evolution of self-government of Nigeria (1955), p. 36 Asibong Okon was referring to this: "This Kingdom of Benin was at one time so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told me that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its King." - United Empire, Volume 2 (1911), p. 620 https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=AE45AQAAMAAJ&dq=predecessors+pay+tribute 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by gregyboy(m): 7:43pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
samuk: Nice one 1 Like |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by samuk: 7:51pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Obalatule: An editorial by a renowned Yoruba professor and historian. Vanguard (Lagos) EDITORIAL July 7, 2004 Posted to the web July 7, 2004 The origin of the Benin and Yoruba empires of old have come to the fore and they have been subject of intense debate. No doubt the origins of the two empires are obscure being deeply buried in legend and mythology and it is not easy to say what amount of history or the amount of embellished history they contain. In truth these traditions which on the surface try to account for the origin of these empires are perhaps little more than ideological chatters legitimizing the political systems, traditions, cultures, etc. of the people. This general position not withstanding, it is worthy of note that the Benin through their well renowned Arts and Craft recorded their history and event in addition to the account of the guild of oral recorders. The most contentious of this debate for now, however, is the Benin-Ife historical connection. Many historians and social anthropologists especially the Yoruba historians have been greatly impressed by the tradition that the Yoruba Kingdom fathered the second Benin empire. According to Prof. A.B.Aderibigbe, "obviously there is an attempt in this story to gloss over what in fact was an alien imposition." Along the same line, Prof Michael Growder said that this tradition could be "a convenient legend to disguise what in fact was a conquest by the Oduduwa party". Here however, the following points are worthy of note: First the Ife-Benin connection has been vigorously questioned by Prof. A.F.C. Ryder. He had pointed out that this tradition which seeks to connect Benin with Ife is suspect. He argues that throughout four centuries of contact between Benin and various European nations, in particular Portugal, there was no hint or reference to this relationship between the two empires. The tradition was not mentioned or recorded by any writer until after the British occupation of Benin in 1897. He also pointed out that the city of Ife is believed to be younger than Benin and therefore could not have fathered the second Benin Empire. Second, according to Prof Ryder, by 1485 Benin was an impressive and large city. Judging by the evidence of European visitors, it was perhaps the largest and most impressive city which the Portuguese saw along the west coast of Africa. Recent archaeological evidence would seem to indicate that Ife was built probably not before the first decade of the 16th century while the capital of old Oyo, Yatenga, was built much later. This would seem to show that the complex political system of the Yoruba which the Benin Kingdom is believed to have descended must have originated much later than the Benin Kingdom. Third, much of the evidence which is believed to corroborate the claims made in the traditions comes from enthnohistory, that is, historical speculations based on assumed logical sequence of development in the political system. This is most unreliable. By the 15th Century, the Benin Kingdom had achieved the height of its greatness. It remained the most powerful and the largest Kingdom in the forest region of West Africa until about the end of the first half of the 17 century. During these two centuries of its ascendancy Benin empire stretched as far west as Lagos, Badagry and Whyidah (Dahomey). On the north-west it stretched as far as Ekiti, Akure and Owo. Towards the north, it stretched to Ishan Country and the southern position of Idah. Finally on the east it incorporated at various times various portions of Ika-Ibo and as far as the River Niger. Prof. Biobaku has suggested that the eastern fringe of what is now Yorubaland was in pre-Yoruba days thinly inhabited by the ancestors of the modern Benin people, a people which he called the Efa. And if recent archaeological evidence would seem to indicate that Ife was built not before the first decade of the 16th century thereby making it to be younger than Benin, then the Oranmiyan tradition has been miscon-strued and the Benin version (The Oba of Benin's version,), not Egharervba's version, becomes more tenable. 2 Likes |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Etinosa12345: 7:54pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Abovebonny: When I'm less busy I'll show u works of historians where Benin was referred to as Empire ... And for ur info... Igbo(Olaudah Equaino bio, Nnamdi azikiwe Odyssey) were under the Benin Empire. Also Yoruba(Lagos and most eastern Yoruba states) were under the Benin Empire... Now if the following is true, won't Benin now be an Empire according to ur definition? And also ... There is no definite size for a kingdom to be referred to as an Empire Benin reason for the Empire was mainly to control trade The way u described Roman Empire, is it also the same way the Oyo Empire grew? 1 Like |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by samuk: 8:16pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Obalatule: No part of Ekiti was spared the agony of imperialist invasions…The rampaging Benin armies sacked Ogotun, Aramoko, some subordinate communities of Ijero, Ado communities such as Are, Afao, Ugbo (now Ilu) Omoba and Agbado and settled a large percentage of the haul of captives therefrom in Ikere, their garrison post. Benin armies constantly waged wars of external aggressions on Ekitiland and other communities in different parts of old Ondo State in their quest for territorial expansion and control, among others. A good reference point is the Ado-Ikere relations that resulted to Benin pillage and attacks on Ado-Ekiti on several occasion. Olomola (1984:2-3) noted that Benin armies invaded parts of Ado kingdom a few times between 1500 and 1815.. Olomola further asserted that the Ewi actually devise a strategy of evacuating his capital city so that the Benin armies would not disturb the Ewi and the rest of his people in their new site. Odo which was, before the Benin invasion a town of considerable size, broke up as the people sought the safety of rocky and forest recesses and Uyin and Igede lost part of their population in their fight against Benin in 1815. The development of the Ado Kingdom was seriously affected by external invasion. These resulted in series of demographic upheavals with settlements constantly moved from one site to another. The most serious of these external invasions were by the "Edo" of Benin. They attacked and destroyed many settlements…in the Ado Kingdom… The Edos were invited by Ogoga, the third time the Edos were so invited to settle the quarrel between Ado and Ikere. The line of action they resolved to adopt was to bring all the villages under the ewi to Ikere, settle them there and in this way Ikere would be equal or even bigger than Ado. Ado would then be afraid of Ikere. The Benin soldiers came and sent words to the Ewi Aroloye… He refused to surrender. He did not in any way show that he was not ready for fight. Every town or village under him except Ijan were prepared to fight… Every town or village under him (Ewi) except Ijan were prepared to fight… The Benin soldiers stormed Igbara-Odo and Ilawe and took them. At this time, Ado town had been vacated. Aroloye took the people to a place called Oke Oko Axis between Ifaki and Iworoko. Most of the gods Ado worshipped on that side: Olua at Eyio, Obanifon at Esure and Are, Ogbese and Orisala at Iworoko. The soldiers pitched their camps near Uyin (Iyin)…Ogbesi Okun, the then Oluyin …was conquered and killed. They proceeded to Igede, Awo and Esure and took them. The inhabitants of Igede then uder Okiribiti were driven in a north-easternly direction to a place called Oke Asha…Edo troops then marched to Iworoko…The soldiers entered Are…The same fate befell Afao. They were all taken to Ikere. The soldiers moved to Igbemo …entered Igbo-Omoba (now Ilu-Omoba)…The soldiers left Aisegba for Agbado and without delay took it and evacuated the people. Agbado was the last place under the Ewi. With the conquest, of Agbado, the soldiers seemed to have finished their job…’ Ewi Idagunmodo (1696-1710), Ewi Okinbaloye Aritawekun (1710-1722), Ewi Amono Ola (1722-1762), Ewi Afunbiowo (1762-1781), Ewi Akulojuorun (1781-1808), Ewi Aroloye (1808-1836) who reigned at Ado but were attacked successively by Benin hordes…‘During the reign of Ewi Aroloye, Ado-Ewi’s kingdom witnessed massive dislocation across the terrain as town dwellers and villagers ran for safety in different directions. Many of the captives from Iworoko, Are, Afao, Ugboomoba (now Ilumoba) and Agbado were taken to Ukere by Benin invaders’." 2 Likes |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Abovebonny: 9:40pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Etinosa12345: I'm sorry but this is a gross misunderstanding of history, I have read both books and neither of them make reference to Igbo's being under the thumb of the Benin Kingdom. Asaba lies on the West Bank of the Niger River, and is the largest Igbo town across the Niger. This means that Asaba is close to the Benin boarder, yet they were never ruled by any Oba and remained an independent Igbo community. Which part of Igboland did Benin rule? Enugu? Owerri? please talk with historical facts and stop making historically inaccurate claims. I am aware of Igbo migrations into the Delta and Benin areas, but that is not what we are discussing. SO Benin and The British Empire are on the same level in terms of empire? since you think size does not matter? Before The British Empire do you think the small Kingdoms which existed in England were called empires? The Kingdoms of Wessex, Mercia, Kent, Northumbria etc all existed within Britain at one time... even when all these kingdoms came together to form England, England was still a kingdom. When England, Scotland, Wales & Ireland became one state, it was still referred to as the "United Kingdom" as it is today. It wasn't until Britain conquered other nations such as: Nigeria, India, Australia, South Africa, Canada etc that it became THE BRITISH EMPIRE.... so yes size does matter! Its very simple to understand, in Nigeria there existed small kingdoms such as Benin, Oyo, Nri, Hausa and so forth. The only empire to exist in Nigeria was the Sokoto Caliphate. Controlling trade in an area does not make you an empire, the Arochukwu-confederation had a monopoly on trade in the east yet no educated person would consider them an empire. There is no shame in being referred to as a kingdom, all major states and empires began as kingdoms. Benin is one of the kingdoms which make up the state of Nigeria, the same way Wales is one of 4 kingdoms which make up the United Kingdom.... very simple logic to understand. 3 Likes |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Abovebonny: 9:46pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
samuk: No doubt that The Kingdom of Benin was powerful in the region, but they were by no means expansionist otherwise they could have easily conquered their neighbours as they had a large military. 1 Like |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Etinosa12345: 10:03pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Abovebonny:Then clearly u should have known abt Olaudah Asaba claim to have a relationship with the Benin as at the 19th century... Ezechima is said to Have migrated to Onitsha from Benin So will u put the Oyo Empire and the British Empire on the same level? Or the Ethiopia with the British?
I don't have time for back and forths.. otherwise... I know there are some account that rightfully refered the Benin as an Empire.. Benin Empire fulfills the definition u gave there Just rest... |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Etrusen(m): 10:12pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Abovebonny: Oga if you say Yoruba they are many some Akure , Ekiti , Osogbo etc but in all this you claim there has been nothing called Yoruba kingdom rather what we have is Oyo kingdom Akure land ife land etc unlike Benin which was united and operate one monarch system talking about going to Dahomey for war or Ghana by Benin can't be compared to that of Oyo who is in close border land with those people talking about Dahomey, it was fellow Yoruba's in Dahomey that Oyo people fought talking about Ga of Ghana they were not associated to Yoruba through Oyo conquest but maybe by migration from one of Yoruba enclave. even the said Ga can't be totally link to Yoruba because there are some opposing account that link them to Benin. I know some will want to prove me wrong on the Ga Benin connection because of what a king said to ooni. But the opposing accounts also bring some viable history of tribes in both Dahomey and Ghana linking to Benin. You will want to mention those Yoruba's in East Africa or maybe some further part of Africa , the thing is Apart from Dahomey Yoruba and maybe those close to the area of Dahomey the others were absolutely victim of slave trade who were move from one place ( especially Nigeria) to other parts of the world or how do you think the Yoruba's in Brazil got there ? in method of ancient travel the Yoruba's victim of slave trade really have the Benin to thank for selling them in ancient days as slave which helped their tribe to spread. in the map you brought look at it critically you will notice Benin covering Yoruba land especially ondo, Ekiti, Lagos and some parts of Ogun I stand by my word that Yoruba ( if there is a single kingdom called Yoruba) never wage a war against any other tribe. the only tribe they wage war against was Oyo kingdom waging against Fulani and Oyo lost the war Benin emperiotic period started before Oyo but Oyo ended before Benin , it took the NO THANKS help of an international kingdom to bring Benin to and end I think my last word will help you compare Oyo and Benin because there is nothing called Yoruba kingdom so when addressing it please be specific. 1 Like |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Etrusen(m): 10:29pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Obalatule: the answer you seek is on the map you brought but if you can't understand it, then it will be a shame on your part |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Abovebonny: 10:35pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Etinosa12345: |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Abovebonny: 10:37pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Etrusen: I really don't care my initial argument is that Benin is a kingdom not an empire.... the Yoruba kingdoms are also as such, kingdoms. 1 Like |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Etrusen(m): 10:48pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Abovebonny: you come online to make baseless argument do you know that apart from even Asaba and onitsha there are Benin descendants as far as IMO state ? even up to rivers state I know you will even argue this but don't worry I won't be surprise . prove me wrong if you can that 95% of kings throne in Delta state were not influence by Benin kingdom thereby subjecting them to Benin kingdom. |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Etrusen(m): 11:00pm On Dec 05, 2020 |
Abovebonny: the thing is that truthfully I will agree with you on the empire issue looking what it takes to because an empire but if there is any kingdom that should be called an empire in Nigeria it's Benin kingdom why do I say so____ Benin kingdom controlled many other tribes more than any other kingdom in Nigeria 2) in those area controlled it also control trade 3) even when most kings exist in their kingdom they still need the oba of Benin to give them the Eben sword and some the Ada sword depending how the case maybe. OK let me ask you do you know that most kings in Delta state come to Benin to study the lifestyle of the oba of Benin before they become king? 4) it was the longest Nigeria kingdom that was ruled by a central power and it lasted more than any other kingdom in Nigeria these are some of the things it takes to be an empire the only place Benin failed to become an empire was in large stretched land mass but even at that, early foreigners still describe it as an empire as seeing it achievements in the realm |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Obalatule: 6:25am On Dec 06, 2020 |
Etrusen:This one has turned to low budget poet Provide evidence of how Bini ruled over various tribes of Africa or shut your mouth and stop shouting Empire 1 Like
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Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Etrusen(m): 6:42am On Dec 06, 2020 |
Obalatule: my earlier reply to you was not talking about Benin as an empire you focused on BENIN RULE OVER THIS PLACE that was why I said the answer you seek is on the map then talking about Benin as an empire I believe if there is any kingdom that should be called empire in Nigeria, it is Benin. or do you think the empire of a think originated from Benin historians ? |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by IDENNAA(m): 7:55am On Dec 06, 2020 |
Abovebonny: Point of correction, the chiefdom never extended beyond Bini. As for center of civilization, it's an insult. 1 Like |
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