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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization (15291 Views)
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Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by samuk: 9:22am On Dec 06, 2020 |
Abovebonny: Asaba in Delta, Onitsha in Anambra, Ikwerre in Rivers, Igede in Benue are few examples of places founded by Benin people. Below is the oldest eyewitness written historical account of Asaba. in 1875. if you have an older written account to debunk my claim, provide it. the Benin kingdom/empire was far greater than most of you can ever imagined. Those of you that actually know will not admit to it due to inferiority complex. In case you missed it, it clearly says Asaba history says, they migrated under the sovereignty of the Oba of Benin due to war. By 16th century (500 years ago) Benin already sent an ambassador to Lisbon in Europe, something no African kingdom/empire had done till then. 2 Likes
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Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by samuk: 9:38am On Dec 06, 2020 |
IDENNAA: Unfortunately for people like you, Benin had already made history and it was documented, there is nothing you guys can do about it. No amount of recent fabrications can change the past. All we need to do is dig into the past to cure your ignorance. Enjoy the Ine festival of ISSELE-UKU people of Delta state. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E56N6E0Lns8 1 Like |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by TAO11(f): 3:48pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
They have started again oo. Their small tribe syndrome seems to have kicked hard again oo. ![]() Shall we debunk their delusions again or let it slide this time thus causing them to have something to kill their depressions from prior threads ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? 4 Likes |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by TAO11(f): 3:54pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
First of all, Asibong Akpan Okon is mistaken about his assertion that a British Governor was responsible for collecting any such statement from the said Alaafin. The individual who collected and published the cited statement in the 2nd volume of the “United Empire” is the trader, R.E. Dennett. The key-word used by R.E. Dennett in his report is the English word “tribute”. Even a basic-level grasp of English makes it clear that the English word “tribute“ has two basic significances: The Primary Significance (Meaning-1): A payment made to express gratitude, etc. The Secondary Significance (Meaning-2): A payment made to acknowledge conquest, etc. It is noteworthy that there is absolutely nothing in the vast corpus of Bini accounts which states (or suggests) that Benin at any point conquered Ọyọ — despite the apparent tendencies in Bini accounts to lay claims of conquest (although usually falsely) to far & near lands. Similarly, there is absolutely nothing in the vast corpus of Ọyọ accounts which states (or suggests) that Ọyọ at any point in time was conquered by Benin — despite the clear admissions (in Ọyọ accounts) that early Ọyọ was conquered for a while by some Nupe groups, by some Bariba groups, and by the early Owu kingdom. In the light of the foregoing, the secondary significance (meaning-2) of “tribute” is not applicable to Dennett’s statement above. Such interpretation has no footing whatsoever in Ọyọ or Bini historical accounts and realities. Conversely, the primary significance (the “meaning-1) of the English term “tribute”, as is now to be expected, is actually that which is in line with the historical realities of Ọyọ-Benin relations as detailed below R. E. Dennett collected this statement in ca.1911. The “tribute” payment relates apparently to pre-1911. The relevant historical background which clarifies his significance of this term is hinted in the Journals of the Europeans who explored the interiors of Yoruba-land in the 1800s. These explorers reached old Ọyọ and actually met the then Alaafin whose vast empire was at the time facing intense rebellion from at least one of its provinces. In response to these internal troubles, the then Alaafin reached out to other provinces of his empire; his long standing allies; as well as newly emerging allies in order to nip this specific rebellion in the bud once and for all. One of its allies which Ọyọ reached out to for this specific engagement in the 1800s was some Bariba groups. Another state which it reached out to, for the purpose of this engagement, is the Benin kingdom. In relation to this outsourcing services, CPT Clapperton hinted in his 1820s Journal that the Alaafin said: “he wanted nothing, unless it was something that would speedily cause the submission of the rebels. He said that he has sent to his friend the king of Benin for troops to assist him in the war. … In the evening I set off five rockets, which astonished all and frightened away many. The king was sitting under his verandah, and we waited on him to inquire how he liked the rockets; he was quite delighted, and said they should be kept for [the] war.” Captain Clapperton & Richard Lander, “Journal of a Second Expedition Into the Interior of Africa,” (1829), p. 41. In the light of this foregoing historical information (as well as in the light of the fact that any supposed Benin conquest of Ọyọ is an historical fallacy); the first significance (meaning-1) of the term “tribute” then is what is meant in Dennett’s statement. In other words, the outsourcing services which the above quotation from Clapperton’s journal indicated wasn’t free of charge after all. In sum, the English term “tribute” as used by Dennett in his c.1911 report is in the primary sense of the term as opposed to the secondary sense. Cheers. ![]() 21 Likes 10 Shares |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by TAO11(f): 3:56pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
Having clarified the foregoing, I’d similarly tease the boundaries especially for the purpose of putting the information out there. Bishop Crowther states the following in a report to T. J. Hutchinson: The Yoruba “at one time ... were all tributaries to one Sovereign, the King of Yoruba [“i.e. Oyo”], including Benin on the East, and Dahomey on the West”. Reference: S. Crowther to T. J. Hutchinson, 10 Sept. 1856 (C.M.S. Archives, CA2/031a) quoted in R.C.C. Law (1973), p.216. To be fair however, the emeritus professor of African and Yoruba history — Professor S. Adebanji Akintoye, among others, have asserted that: “The claim that the Oyo Empire included Benin is certainly an exaggeration, but [that] it did have its northern boundary on the River Niger and its southern boundary on the Atlantic Ocean”. Reference: “A History of the Yoruba People”, 2010, Amalion Publishing, p. 249. ————————— Having said that, this is obviously not to say that Oyo and Benin were equally as powerful at every period throughout the centuries of their respective reigns. Rather, they each had their respective highs and lows at different periods in the course of the centuries of their respective reigns. Oyo’s power and influence, however, did eclipse that of Benin at various times especially during the period of Benin’s history when Benin kingdom was grounded & ravaged as its capital was sacked and reduced to a mere village. In their joint publication, Ben-Amos and Thornton cited the relevant eyewitness accounts which corroborate this historical fact. They noted that: “Towards the end of the seventeenth century,* a number of European observers noted that the Edo Kingdom of Benin* had been racked for some years by civil war. One of the longest accounts, that of David van Nyendael, reported that as a result of this civil war, Benin City had been sacked and in his day (1699-1701) was reduced to a ‘mere village’*.” Reference: Paula Ben-Amos Girshick & John Thornton: “Civil War in the Kingdom of Benin, 1689-1721: Continuity or Political Change?”, Journal of African History, 42 (2001), p. 353. —————————— In sum then, the above account of Bishop Crowther along the lines that Benin paid tributes to Oyo appears to be in relation to the above-described crisis years in Benin kingdom — that is; from 1699-1721, which interestingly coincides with the period of Oyo’s highest imperial domination and expansion. Such tribute payments, in this context, would thus have been to prevent its already ravaged self from additional troubles in the form of external incursions from an ever-expanding power from the west. However, as has already been shown, the issue of its paying tributes to Oyo — in this context — is not a sufficient condition to lead one to conclude that it was part the Oyo Empire. Cheers. 23 Likes 12 Shares |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by TAO11(f): 3:56pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
(1) Regarding the age of the Ife settlement w.r.t. Benin, it is an absolutely laughable ignorant falsehood to say that Benin predates Ife or that Ife wasn’t settled prior to the 1500s. (A) Some radio-carbon dates of Ife potsherd pavements (or “street tiling” in modern terminology) at Ita-Yemoo, Ife as obtained by Frank Willett goes back to as early as circa 960CE. (B) Some radio-carbon dates of charcoal samples from Orun Oba Ado as obtained by Frank Willett goes back to as early as circa 560CE. (C) In his 1969 report of a preliminary archaeological survey of Ife, Paul Ozanne finds that many settlements were already established in Ife by circa 350BCE. I would wait to see his evidence for how Benin was settled prior to Ife. Joke of the century. ![]() ——————————— (2) Regarding the sorrowful rant that there was no classical relationship between Ife and Benin, well this has been debunked as an ignorant falsehood many times on Nairaland. See any of the two links below for some examples of such refutation: https://www.nairaland.com/6234931/why-ikwerres-not-igbo-logic/9#96323798 https://www.nairaland.com/6087424/benin-ife-myth-shouldnt-circulated#93803726 Having said that, the allusion to A.F.C. Ryder is not only a warped one but also an ignorant one as is to be seen below: Ryder never claimed to have any evidence of no classical Ife-Benin relationship. Rather he simply questioned the widely acknowledged relationship and proposed his undecided alternative — an hypothesis which has unfortunately yielded zero result even till date. In fact, four years after his hypothesis, Ryder is reported in a joint publication by Professors Elizabeth Allo Isichei & Peter Uche Isichei to have abandoned the hypothesis. The authors note in this regards as follows: “It is noteworthy that Ryder, who questioned the Ife connection and argued the case for linkages with a northern kingdom, abandoned the line of argument in his later book, Benin and the Europeans.” Reference: Elizabeth A. Isichei & Peter Uche Isichei, “A History of Nigeria”, Longman (1983), Volume 2, p. 137. [You may click on the bolded word “Reference”] Moreover, even if Ryder had failed to retrace his steps, his mere undecided questioning does absolutely nothing to overturn the corpus of evidence upheld by almost every single scholar on the subject. A remarkable example of the many scholarly devastating refutations which trailed Ryder’s hypothesis was from Professor Robin Horton in his “Ancient Ife: A Reassessment”. See the link below for my excerpt of relevant quotations from the work showing how Ryder’s hypothesis was debunked: https://www.nairaland.com/6048841/how-unveil-promote-ancient-igbo/55#93649575 ————————— (3) The idea that the Binis settled in Lagos via a military invasion; or that the progenitor of the present-ruling dynasty of Lagos island is a Bini blood have both being debunked in the link below: https://www.nairaland.com/6286709/ijebu-vs-jebusite/1#96593783 Moreover, the idea that Benin ruled over some Yoruba frontier territories to its west has also been debunked in the link below: https://www.nairaland.com/6234931/why-ikwerres-not-igbo-logic/15#96519494 Cheers 21 Likes 11 Shares |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by gregyboy(m): 4:12pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
TAO11: Drop it, drio everything you got we aren't coward I decided to stay clear The moment you go silly, you would regret it bro Someone just confirmed youre gay disgusting |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by IDENNAA(m): 4:26pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
samuk: If you like post any senseless material all you like but you have no single evidence that Bini was not a chiefdom. You never built an empire and as time goes you will get this. By the way , you Bini practiced our four market days yet you spoke Bini. Issele Ukwu are eternally Igbo and there is nothing you nor them can do about it....lmao. They are becoming even more centrally Igbo as we speak. Give up! 4 Likes |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Etrusen(m): 4:28pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
gregyboy: is tao male |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Etrusen(m): 4:30pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
TAO11: what do you mean by small tribe syndrome or you just want to spark up your usual baseless claim which I have always treated ? |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by gregyboy(m): 4:50pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Etrusen(m): 4:54pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by gregyboy(m): 5:03pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by IDENNAA(m): 5:47pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
samuk: So, Bini people founded Asaba and Onicha...lmao. If you like send Ambassador to moon but you can't grow taller than you are. Asaba and Onicha has absolutely nothing in common with you Bini. Not in culture, in looks, in language or any danm thing. These places even the inferior Ikwerre are traditionally Igbo in all ramifications. You are a Yoruba sub tribe! 4 Likes |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Balogunodua(m): 6:06pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
Sarcasm........ ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Balogunodua(m): 6:12pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
gregyboy: ![]() ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Nobody: 6:23pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
gregyboy:Stop this rubbish now! 1 Like |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Balogunodua(m): 6:36pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
samuk: Ehhhh.... ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Balogunodua(m): 6:37pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
samuk: Ehhhh.... ![]() ![]() |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by TAO11(f): 6:43pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
2 Likes |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Balogunodua(m): 6:50pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
TAO11:Right..... ![]() ![]() But let him try... |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by TAO11(f): 7:00pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
Balogunodua:Great! cc: Balogunodua 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by gregyboy(m): 8:14pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
1 Like |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by samuk: 8:16pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
TAO11: There is absolutely no basis to compare historical achievements of Benin to Yoruba. Benin historical achievements and accomplishments are not in the same class with that of Yoruba. If you think there is, we can start the debate and I will allow you to choose the timeline we will start from and all evidence from both of us will be based on eyewitness accounts of each period not some interpretations of events or artworks or text which can be disputed with other interpretation of the same events. I suggest we start from the 1400s but if you think we can go earlier than this dates, you are welcome. Each kingdom, town or place have to be specifically named. Ife has to be Ife, Benin has to be Benin, Oyo has to be Oyo and Ijebu has to be Ijebu or something close enough that there will be no doubt that the text or name refers to such place. No myths is allowed. I will allow you to access historical materials of all Yoruba kingdoms in support of your arguments against Benin. Other Yorubas are allowed to help you out. Let the debate begin. Please choose you timeline and present your Yoruba historical achievements for debate. Bonus: I am ready to offer you $1000 if you are able to provide eyewitness written historical accounts of Benin/Ife relationship earlier than 1800s. Please don't keep waiting for too long because I have other important things to do. |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by samuk: 8:29pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
IDENNAA: This one is in severe pain. ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Obalatule: 8:32pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
samuk:What a joker!!.....Bini founded The Americas as well ![]() Bini founded all these places and couldn't rise beyond its current status of minority among minority tribes chai 4 Likes
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Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by samuk: 8:33pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
IDENNAA: Benin can't prevent anyone from telling their history and practising their culture. There is nothing you or even Benin can do about ISSELE-UKU claiming Benin. Learn to live with it. |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Etinosa12345: 8:34pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
IDENNAA: U are typing this in tears If u are sure of what u are saying, bring ur facts and stop crying on this thread PS: I'm still waiting for the account where Erediuwa said that Benin were afraid of the Igbos
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Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by samuk: 8:36pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
Obalatule: Go and hide somewhere. Tao your master has been challenged to historical contest. If you don't have anything meaningful to contribute please park to one side. |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Obalatule: 8:36pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
samuk:You are the definition of pain and insecurity, Bini is a Yoruba sub-tribe even your Oba acknowledged this publicly Do you guys really need to always put yourselves through this painful trashing at the hands of the yorubas all the time? ![]() 3 Likes
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Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Obalatule: 8:40pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
samuk:You have nothing to say apart from wailings and infantile tantrum-throwing. Your Oba opened his mouth waaaa!! Like a squealing pig and declared he descended from ile-ife ![]() Shame suppose catch Una small chai 3 Likes |
Re: Benin Remain The Center Of West Africa Civilization by Etinosa12345: 8:40pm On Dec 06, 2020 |
IDENNAA: Point of correction... U copied it from us
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