Fulaman198:

I've seen that picture before. Some men are stupid though and don't care if a woman who treated them like crap when they were young like them now that they are doing well.

I think a lot of that derives from children(at least in the U.S) not being told what the purpose of a relationship, marriage, family, etc is suppose to be.

My parents grew up in the poor rural U.S black belt. My ma's family was sharecropping when she was a girl before my grandparents moved them to the city. My daddy's family were carpenters/well diggers(they were better off). Both sides eventually grew up in the city finally working for the phone company. People from that poor background and found economic stability drill in there kids "don't bring no babies in this house" and "boy you betta do good in school".

Now while there's nothing wrong with that in general. The problem occurs when the want to not have their children grow up/end up poor like they were when children may blind them to teaching more fundamental things about how you (treat/should be treated by) people in the context of a relationship or general wisdom reguarding family life.

Good call !

Now that's one of those qualities that separates the "I want power" mods from the quality ones ...catching and passing on those fine details that most people wouldn't know/pickup on. thanks

Nyumba: You don't need a DNA test to know you're African...

True, but ultimately irrelevant.

Why is it true?(I'll make it simple)

Just as a cat is a more specific incarnation of the abstract notion called "Animal"; a Nigerian, African American, Oromo, Afro Brazilian, etc are more specific incarnations of the abstract notion called "African". This African is simply an umbrella term for a collection of histories and cultures or what is commonly called heritage.
I.E If your a "black man" in the U.S and you know your folks have been there since the enslavement days you should also know your an African(a specific incarnation of one ...to be specific). Now if they acknowledge that or not is on them(shrugs)

Need another abstract example? Here you go





Why is that "ultimately irrelevant"?
Cause the purpose of the DNA test isn't to let you "know you're African" or not
(Note: this is the nonsense I'm talking about people! You can't just claim that a person did something the person never did then attack them on the grounds of the fictitious claim)

Nyumba: ...and probably (99% of the possibilities) the results are fckd up, like "You are Mande from Sierra Leone, Mandinka from Senegal ( Senegal is mostly Wolof) and Igbo from Nigeria"... these results are a joke...

Again...
1. The DNA test do exactly what the company says it does. (If they don't please show me evidence to the contrary)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6pRVRquljI
Dr. Rick Kittles, Co-founder and Scientific Director of AfricanAncestry.com,
explains the measures that he uses to determine an ancestry result

You can keep attempting to tip toe around Dr. Rick Kittles explanation above on how the system works but until you deal with what is before you...

^
bump

“BESOURO”

~From history to legend, and back again~

To tell about Besouro, the legendary capoeirista, we must go back it to time, back to the end of the 19th century. There we find a time much different from ours. Those were the days of the introduction of a new law in Brazil. A law that prohibited Afro-Brazilian expressions like: capoeira. Those who were caught practising or playing capoeira would face severe punishment. It was also the time were the slavery had just ended “officially”, and a lot of people of black origin were on the road looking for work.

One of them was João Matos Pereira who lived in Santo Amaro da Purificação (Bahia), nicknamed João Grosso. Who had a relationship with a woman named Maria Auta Pereira or Maria Haifa according to many. She became pregnant and so it was that in 1895 a son, Manoel Henrique Pereira was born. When Manoel Henrique was still a young boy he received his first lessons in capoeira from an African and ex-slave named Tio Alípio. These took place in Trapiche de Baixo, the poorest neighbourhood of Santo Amaro. Since capoeira was forbidden, this training had to be done in secret. As time went by Manoel Henrique grew, in length and capoeira as well. He received the nickname “Besouro”, “Besouro Mangangá” to be exact.

Besouro means beetle in Portuguese. That name was chosen because he became known to be able to escape out of difficult situations. Just like a black beetle, spreading its wings at the top of a branch and taking flight. And just like a beetle he would be always on the move.

Besouro Preto
[img]http://testcapo.files./2009/05/images.jpeg?w=450[/img]

According to the tales passed on by generations, Besouro had a great sense of justice.
This sense was often awakened through the great injustice the black people in Santo Amaro were suffering from by the local authorities. The majority of the population were Besouro lived was black. Although slavery was abolished officially in 1888, they had virtually no rights. After the abolition a punishment law was made in 1890 which enabled the police to pursue not only people playing capoeira but also people practising their African religion, candomblé. Next to that a large quantity of black people were not paid with money for their labour, but only with food in combination with a place to stay. It meant that they could not finance themselves and build something on their own for the future. Things would go even worse if some landlords would refuse to pay anything and the black people, having no rights at all, were left with nothing. This last situation also happened to Besouro according to the many tales about him. Only Besouro didn’t silently accept not being paid. He didn’t fear the land lord’s power and threatened him, forcing him to pay him what he owed. If someone was done injustice he would also come to aid.

There are stories about Besouro intervening during mistreatment of the local people by the police. He would face several policemen at once, beat them and disarm them without even being hit. Afterwards he would go with the arms to the police station and throw them in front of the door. There’s another story about Besouro forcing a police officer to drink a large quantity of cachaça (alcoholic beverage). Afterwards he let the drunken man walk through the town towards the police station. This was done to demoralise the often corrupt police force. In this way he dared to do things the black oppressed people wished they could do but didn’t have the courage or means to. He became feared because of his reputation of being unbeatable and at the same time was admired and loved for maintaining justice. Thus he also created many connections that could help him in terms as place to stay or testify in his favour towards the police.

The reason that Besouro was able to oppose the local police so successfully wasn’t only because he was a good fighter and knew the police methods quite well. He was said to have a “corpo fechado” which literally means: closed body. It is a term well known in certain African religions. Through special rites and rituals one would be able to have a “corpo fechado” where no knife or bullet could penetrate. It is said that Besouro was brought up with knowledge of these rituals en had a “corpo fechado” himself. There are stories about police shooting at him, without being able to hit him or Besouro fainting being hit and taking advantage of the situation when the police let their guard down. According to people with knowledge of candomblé, an African religion that was vast spread through Bahia by enslaved Africans, one would have to make certain preparations to create such a body, including implanting fava beans under the skin. In Africa this is used as a preparation for battle, creating an ultimate preventive medicine from harm. The full name “Besouro Mangangá” also relates to this.Mangangá can be translated in African language as medicine that functions to close the body, protecting the carrier from harm. In a way Besouro himself was a medicine to the oppressed minds of the black community in Bahia, by showing them another way was possible and giving them more courage and self respect. The name Besouro Mangangá is used by people of Santo Amaro to describe a beetle who can pierce through very hard pieces of wood and which bite hurts a lot. Perhaps this was demonstrating the way Manoel Henrique Pereira was unstoppable and impact he had on places and people wherever he went.

During his turbulent life Besouro had various jobs
He was a soldier in the army posted in Bahia at a time where the army and the police were separate forces and sometimes had conflicts about decisions. Benefiting from this, Besouro was also a man that never stayed at one place for long. He roamed around the areas working here and there to make a living. He worked for instance on ships that transported sugar cane that was cut in the fields in Santo Amaro, travelling to Salvador, Cachoeira, Maragogipe (all in Bahia) and back again . He also worked on several lands of landlords.

Besouro had a group of friends which often accompanied him and which he met on Sundays and holidays to play capoeira with. It was a group of people that helped him when he was in trouble and that he could trust. You could call it his gang and together they were more successful in succeeding what they wanted. Amongst the people in this group were: Paulo Barroquinha, Canário Pardo, Siri de Mangue and Doze Homens.*
Some could describe Besouro as a Robin Hood of black Bahia in the 20th century. Rebelling with his gang to the regime and disliking injustice. But this comparison is too superficial. This is first of all because he was feared by a big part of the local population. Maybe because it became clear that Besouro could afford to do a lot without anyone being able to catch him. “When people took notice that he was in town, they would close all windows and doors” (According to Dona Dormelinda, a resident of Santo Amaro).

Going against the exploiting local government, had made Besouro an enemy of many, including landlords. According to the tales told through generations an assault was arranged to kill him. One of his enemies was the son of an influential landlord, named Doutor Zeca who called for Besouro and asked him to deliver a message to an acquaintance of his in Maracangalha. In this letter there was a request to kill the one delivering the message: Besouro. It was said that Besouro Mangangá was illiterate and therefore he himself carried his own death sentence unknowingly. Besouro still had a “corpo fechado” that couldn’t be harmed normally, but in the African religion candomblé there are spells and counter spells.

Besouro was forbidden to do a few things in able to keep his “corpo fechado”: not passing under barbed wire, not sleeping with a woman the night before a fight and not loosing his patuá (protection amulet). In order to penetrate and break the sorcery of candomblé, called mandinga, a knife made of: ticum (tucum) was prepared. It’s a dark type of wood also called Mané Velho, known to be very strong. There was no mandinga to protect Besouro against this attack. When Besouro delivered the letter, he was asked to wait for the night so that tomorrow he could get an answer. He would be compensated for his waiting and so Besouro stayed. They hired a woman to have sex with him who after that stole his patuá and left. In the night the order was spread to bring many men in order to slay Besouro. The next day when Besouro awoke, forty men were gathered waiting for him. It is said that a man called Eusébio Quibaca sneaked up on Besouro while he was fighting and stabbed him with a knife of ticum in de abdomen, breaking the protection of Besouro.

This was said to take place in 1924. A time before the names of Mestres Pastinha and Mestre Bimba were well known in Bahia. Only… there was no evidence of this story. In fact there was no evidence that the man nicknamed Besouro Mangangá ever existed. And while the stories about his legendary actions grew like claiming that he could turn himself into a black beetle to escape, others were beginning to look sceptically towards the name Besouro. Wasn’t it all just a story made up a long time ago based on various occasions of less heroic proportions, gathered and assigned to one person? Didn’t the older capoeiristas wish there was someone like this, a hero they wanted to be? And then… a discovery was made by Antônio Liberac Cardoso Simões Pires, who did an in-depth research about Besouro Mangangá. He actually found the name Manoel Henrique Pereira in juristic documents of Bahia that said he was known as Besouro and charged with assault. Thus the history which many thought to be a mere legend became official history. Not all the stories written about him and the exact way he died, but at least there was some evidence now that could function as a support to the stories. Like another document that told about a Manuel Henrique, dying on the eighth of July in 1924 because of a pierced abdomen in Maracangalha, found by Contra-Mestre Lampião.

Over time, many people told stories about Besouro. One who kept these stories alive was Mestre Cobrinha Verde, said to be his cousin and to have learned capoeira from a number of mestres, including Besouro who also gave him his apelido. He was one of the people spreading parts of the heritage of this legendary capoeirista.
Besouro became over time, an icon in capoeira, resembling the power of capoeira against oppression and injustice.

The influence of Besouro in capoeira these days can be felt through the lineages of mestres that decent from him ** and through songs mentioning the name Besouro. To give a few lines within these songs and where they can be found:
1.“Era Besouro, era Besouro, era forte com um touro”LP Mestre Ezequiel
2.“ô Besouro Preto, ô Besouro Preto malvado” LP Eu Bahia
3.“Eu vou partir porque mataram o meu Besouro” CD Mestre Pastinha
4.“Quando eu morrer disse Besouro” CD Cordão de Ouro Volume I
5.“E todo mundo ouviu falar, de Besouro Mangangá” CD Mestre Paulo dos Anjos
6.“Zum, zum, zum, Besouro Mangangá“ CD M. Toni e M. Nestor Capoeira
7.“Do Besouro preto, eu sempre ouvi falar” CD Mestre Di Mola Volume III
8.“Faca de tucum matou Besouro Mangangá” CD Abadá Volume II

I like to end this article with a song, telling about Besouro and things that are universal to us capoeiristas in life.

Reze uma prece e deixe acontecer
Autores: Mestre Di Mola e Baiano
Ritmo: Angola
CD: Capoeira Guanabara – Mestre Di Mola – Volume III

Do Besouro Preto, do Besouro Preto eu sempre ouvi falar
Do Besouro Preto, do Besouro Preto eu sempre ouvi falar
Nascido em Maracangalha
Vê se a mandinga não falha
Pois a morte vai chegar.
É triste, mas é pura verdade
A força da falsidade
Faz um cabra se enganar
E o tempo jamais apagou
A história de um guerreiro danado, chamado seu Besouro
Corre lá patrão, faça o seu sinal
Escreve uma carta e mostre seu ideal
Corre vai lá ver, vai logo capataz
Entregue a seu Besouro,
Que a morte já chega é por trás
Êêê
Capoeira é assim, você tem que aceitar
Capoeira acontece só reze uma prece pra jogar
Capoeira é assim, você tem que aceitar (Coro)
Capoeira acontece só reze uma prece pra jogar (Coro)


References
For more information about Besouro I can recommend the following sources:

- The book “Capoeira e mandingas”
by Marcelino dos Santos – Mestre Mau
- The book “Atenilo, o relâmpago da Regional”
by Raimundo Cesar Alves de Almeida – Mestre Itapoan
- The book “Bimba, Pastinha e Besouro Mangangá, três personagens da Bahia”
by Antônio Liberac Cardoso Simões Pires
- The documentary “Black Beetle”
by Salim Rollins
- The magazine “Praticando Capoeira” nr. 04
by Letícia Cardoso de Carvalho
- Contra Mestre Lampião

An authority about Besouro Mangangá. Currently living in Santo Amaro da Purificação. He has done a vast study about Besouro, discovering a lot of interesting facts. Like: proof of his existence and the exact whereabouts of Besouro in the past. I owe him and Dengosa for receiving me so well and taking the time to tell about Besouro and introducing me to important people of Santo Amaro like: Mestre Felipe, Mestre Adó and also Dona Dormelinda, the sister of Besouro.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-t5cL-Pdfw

I definitely agree with this!!!!
Back then some serious work was put in throughout the African world on the continent and in the diaspora.




Even the kids

[img]http://4.bp..com/_Tn2H8vLKTNY/TS-Q3YRfsfI/AAAAAAAAACY/lW6jXQYO8vQ/s1600/pan_african_congress.jpg[/img]




Our women held there own and didn't disappoint one bit !!

PhysicsQED: RandomAfricanAm, I only answered those questions you posed to me that seemed relevant to clearing up the confusion about what me and Kidstranglehold were disagreeing (or misinterpreting each other) on. I could give answers to the others, but it was unnecessary to do so to clear things up and as I said, I would like to keep things short and simpler.

No prob I'm good

PhysicsQED:

...Also, I think that you misunderstood osystein's question. He'll probably return to clarify what he was asking about though - or at least I assume that he will if he still has any interest in the thread.

Misunderstood ...ummm I don't know if I'd say misunderstood. Now I certainly didn't answer his entire question, but that was intentional.
Hence the emboldened segment...

osystein: Why do people take pride in being the first people, doesn't that fall into racists claims that certain people are more primitive and less evolved than others?

^^
I was replying explicitly to that part so I intentionally disregarded the first part of the question which I have no real position on either way(personally I think it's a rather random claim also though for different reasons)

osystein: Why do people take pride in being the first people, doesn't that fall into racists claims that certain people are more primitive and less evolved than others?

No because that idea hinges on the notion that the "material progress" we see today is predicated on the human genetic evolution of some set of people ...which isn't true, or at least verified.

This actually plays into a discussion Physics and pleep were having a couple of months back about Jews, IQ, and genetics that I meant to insert myself into but never got around to. Todays worlds is built on the back of ideas not some random genetic leap among modern man which is largely genetically the same.

To put it simply:
1. Humans seek to meet their basic needs of food, security, shelter, etc. any method(s) they develop to meet those needs live and die within the confines of that group in the form of cultural Memes. These "methods of production" are largely based on environment.


2. If conditions force groups into close proximity and provides the ability to meet their basic needs those "methods of production" once confined to particular groups spreads replacing/coexisting with other models(for better or worse).

See: Nile valley


See: Ghana-Mali-Songhai Complex
[img]http://fpif.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/GHANA-MALI-SONGHAI-EMPIRE.jpe[/img]

See: Swahili coast
[img]http://davidderrick.files./2013/04/swahili-coast.jpg[/img]

See: Mesopotamia


See Indus valley civilization


See: Shang Dynasty


See: Olmec civilization


3. In that environment which sustains larger populations the chance, need, speed, and variety of production methods increase. Given the close quarters of people these cultural memes spread throughout the inhabitants increasing derivatives and improvements while also insuring survival.

4. Those "methods of production" are further spread by trade relation between said population centers. The extent to which you are isolated from those trade routes determines the extent to which you are isolated from the ideas of the world.
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Niger_saharan_medieval_trade_routes.PNG[/img]



5. As the worlds cultural memes diversify and form ever complex configurations through increased population and means to fund more complex expressions of cultural memes you get todays world.


In conclusion:

osystein: Why do people take pride in being the first people, doesn't that fall into racists claims that certain people are more primitive and less evolved than others?

No because the world is the way it is because of the accumulated population and subsequent ideas of man ...along with the massive influx of capital that went into the capitalist system that was birthed by the accumulated wealth gained off the backs of free African labor in the Americas along with the raw materials still being taken from the bowls of Africa today.

This materialized not on the back of some special strain of DNA but on the martialing of a huge subset of the accumulated ideas of man that was deposited in Europe at the fall of the Moorish occupation of Spain. All you would really be saying is that the foundation of the worlds accumulated culture and genetic make up that facilitated that comes from "us"


But really everybody is a subset of "us" so what's the point <---That's the real question

Nyumba:
I think that these African DNA tests are bull****, 40% of the slave were taken from Angola.

Mrs.Chima:
The African DNA website is still running?!!!
Oy vey!

I'm getting so tired of this logical position

Before I go any further... As a software guy I make a distinction between hardware & software. I.E If I download buggy software I don't blame the computer I blame the program(mer). Likewise I make a distinction between "Biological hardware" and logical positions.

I.E. My issue is with the message not the messenger



I put complaints about African DNA tests(specifically "African ancestry" in the same category as complaints about the illuminati, "Da white man", the scary Afrocentrist, New world order, and on down to your run of the mill conspiracy theories.


1. The DNA test do exactly what the company says it does. (If they don't please show me evidence to the contrary)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsRQaOs967o
Dr. Rick Kittles, Co-founder and Scientific Director of AfricanAncestry.com,
explains the measures that he uses to determine an ancestry result


2.Now if some random person on the internet tells you something different( Exaggeration: "the test tells you exactly what village & hut you're ancestors were plucked from !!!" how does that magically erase what the company founder says(who made the process) the test does?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRMprQomEI0
Dr. Rick Kittles, Co-founder and Scientific Director of AfricanAncestry.com,
explains how the process of tracing genetic ancestry works.



Random abstract example:
This is the same line of thought that annoys me about people constantly complain about the scary "Afrocentrist". If some nut job on the internet says that the olmecs were African what the hell does that have to do with the professor in this case "Ivan van sertima" who did the actual field work who said no such thing.

Moral of the story?
Stop throwing the baby out with the bath water.

If person A tells person B something and person B screws up the message or completely misinterprets it that has little to do with person A(Short of possibly not clearly articulating the point) ...unless you can verify that person A actually said such a thing.

PhysicsQED: (I don't see the point of carrying out two detailed, stretched out debates with two different posters on the same issue in the same thread)

Fair enough, I'll drop off. My points have been largely addressed anyway.
Side note: I don't do debates they reek of people(I'm not saying you) constantly trying to "win". I just want to understand a persons position and make sure my position is clearly understood. Afterwards come to some (dis)agreement then move on to the next step.

I despise "academic debate" ...it's one of those residual European cultural nuggets that don't suit me at all

---

I'll leave on this...

Questions:
1. In what way(s) are you suggesting that "modern black Africans are not the same (in terms of skeletal morphology, for example) as humans from many tens of thousands of years ago"?

delineators
a. Erect posture
b. Skull morphology
c. Limb ratio
d. Height
e. Other

Answers:

PhysicsQED: my point (besides the issue of the difference in the genes of the individuals under consideration) is about skull morphology (unless I see evidence otherwise)

PhysicsQED: I'm sure height would probably be another significant difference .

2. Are you saying that Qafzeh 9 fits the above limitations?

Answers:

PhysicsQED: I'm not saying that Qafzeh 9 "fits the above limitations"

3. Are you saying that the humans we are referring to do not fit into what is commonly referred to as "modern man"?

Answers:
None

4. If such early people are deemed modern man, What use are such limitations when Modern Africans have no uniform skeletal morphology short of a tropical adapted morphology?

Answers:
None

PhysicsQED:

I'm not saying that Qafzeh 9 "fits the above limitations" and my point (besides the issue of the difference in the genes of the individuals under consideration) is about skull morphology (unless I see evidence otherwise), though I'm sure height would probably be another significant difference.

But, putting your other questions aside (I don't see the point of carrying out two detailed, stretched out debates with two different posters on the same issue in the same thread), are you suggesting that because "Modern Africans" have no uniform skeletal morphology it would ever be correct to suggest that they were the same as the people that we are referring to from many tens of thousands of years ago?

I'll leave that conversation to you and kidstranglehold

IGBO Pre-construction of Lil-waynes skull morphology/facial characteristics


Since we are talking about morphology and all ...I thought I'd lighten the mood

KidStranglehold:

Yes. And I repeatedly told you a million times that they were NOT the same as modern day Africans because MOST of the lineages associated with modern day Africans did not arose yet...

I think you misinterpreted me.

Bingo!! Now that I like

PhysicsQED:

RandomAfricanAm, the point of my post is that modern black Africans are not the same (in terms of skeletal morphology, for example) as humans from many tens of thousands of years ago - unless someone has evidence to the contrary. If/when I see such evidence to the contrary, then I'll retract my earlier statements. The issue of whether they "would have looked like what we call black" is not the point of my post. The issue is whether they were actually the same. I believe that Kidstranglehold agrees with me that they were not the same, so his disagreement with my original comment that he quoted was a bit surprising, but it could be explained if it turns out that my original statement was just misinterpreted.

Much better! Now that is a much more coherent statement.

Questions:
1. In what way(s) are you suggesting that "modern black Africans are not the same (in terms of skeletal morphology, for example) as humans from many tens of thousands of years ago"?

delineators
a. Erect posture
b. Skull morphology
c. Limb ratio
d. Height
e. Other

2. Are you saying that Qafzeh 9 fits the above limitations?

3. Are you saying that the humans we are referring to do not fit into what is commonly referred to as "modern man"?

4. If such early people are deemed modern man, What use are such limitations when Modern Africans have no uniform skeletal morphology short of a tropical adapted morphology?

Ahhhh man, this stupid picture won't pull from the server

Boooooo!

PhysicsQED:

I am referencing morphology (skeletal morphology). What is ambiguous about my statement?

Kidstranglehold disagreed with my statement about "modern black Africans." Therefore, I inferred that he is aware of evidence (such as morphological evidence from a skeleton) contradicting my statement and asked him to provide it. The inference may have been wrong on my part or he may have misinterpreted my post and actually agrees with me completely (which one of his most recent posts makes me think is the case).

KidStranglehold:

So what were you trying to imply?? Because my post were strictly only about the physical characteristics of those early humans(homo sapiens) and that they would have looked like what we call black.

So someone tell me again how we are not talking about looks ...but are talking about looks?

RandomAfricanAm: BTW @PhysicsQED I don't see anything wrong wit your line of questioning(not that it's my place to ok conversations) I'm talking about the rest of this thread.

You two just seem to have a case of miscommunication going on but the rest of this thread is.....................

See my second post^^

BTW @PhysicsQED I don't see anything wrong wit your line of questioning(not that it's my place to ok conversations) I'm talking about the rest of this thread.

You two just seem to have a case of miscommunication going on but the rest of this thread is .....................

^^^^
To the ignorance on display in this thread.
@kidstranglehold thank you for beating back the ignorance I have not the patience...and the spam bot rides me for every 3rd post I make


@PhysicsQED I don't think you're making a fair call. If you're not talking about looks you indeed made a rather ambiguous statement.

Could you explain what you're saying here? The "the Qafzeh 9" fossils you referenced above are definitely not the same as modern Africans' skeletons , so that's obviously not what you're referring to. So could you refer to the fossils from "many tens of thousands of years ago" that are the same as those of modern black Africans and enlighten me?

Now if your not referencing morphology I.E what they look like
What are you referencing there weight

Morphology
[s]linguistics : the study and description of how words are formed in language[/s]

biology : the study of the form and structure of animals and plants

: the form and structure of a plant or animal or any of its parts

I found this picture to funny and had to share




Though as someone who grew up/went to school in a "chocolate city" there was no real concept of a nerd. The smart people were among the most popular people in the school...and for a very mundane ordinary reason. If you did bad in school your parents don't get you anything. The people who rented out ball rooms for birthday events, or setup dinners for the senior class, had a car & nice clothes, etc were basically people who made good grades and came from middle/working class families.

On the flip side there were people who weren't sociable and couldn't relate to others and they might catch flack but it wasn't because they were "nerds" or good students. If you could relate to other people that superseded pretty much anything else. You could be poor, well off, mean, nice, funny, smart, stupid, etc and you'd be fine for the most part.

Actually the funny person superseded everybody else socialy. Everybody likes the funny person ...period.

[img]http://egyptianaemporium.files./2013/07/20130709-200648.jpg[/img]

France24

Unique Egyptian sphinx unearthed in north Israel

AFP - Part of an ancient Egyptian king's unique sphinx was unveiled at a dig in northern Israel on Tuesday, with researchers struggling to understand just how the unexpected find ended up there. The broken granite sphinx statue -- including the paws and some of the mythical creature's forearms -- displayed at Tel Hazor archaeological site in Israel's Galilee, is the first such find in the region. Its discovery also marks the first time ever that researchers have found a statue dedicated to Egyptian ruler Mycerinus who ruled circa 2,500 BC and was builder of one of the three Giza pyramids, an expert said. "This is the only monumental Egyptian statue ever found in the Levant - today's Israel, Lebanon, Syria," Amnon Ben-Tor, an archaeology professor at the Hebrew University in charge of the Tel Hazor dig, told AFP. "It is also the only sphinx of this particular king known, not even in Egypt was a sphinx of that particular king found."

Ben-Tor said that besides Mycerinus's name, carved in hieroglyphics between the forearms, there are symbols reading "beloved by the divine souls of Heliopolis". "This is the temple in which the sphinx was originally placed," Ben-Tor said of Heliopolis, an ancient city which lies north of today's Cairo. Tel Hazor, which Ben-Tor calls "the most important archaeological site in this country," was the capital of southern Canaan, founded circa 2,700 BC and at its peak covering approximately 200 acres and home to some 20,000 Canaanites. It was destroyed in the 13th century BC. "Following a gap of some 150 years, it was resettled in the 11th century BC by the Israelites, who continuously occupied it until 732 BC," when it was destroyed by the Asyrians, Ben-Tor said. He said the find was approximately 50 centimetres (20 inches) long, and estimated the entire statue was 150 centimetres (60 inches) long and half a metre (20 inches) high".

How, when and why it reached Tel Hazor remains a mystery.

"That it arrived in the days of Mycerinus himself is unlikely, since there were absolutely no relations between Egypt and this part of the world then," said Ben-Tor. "Egypt maintained relations with Lebanon, especially via the ancient port of Byblos, to import cedar wood via the Mediterranean, so they skipped" today's northern Israel, he said. Another option is that the statue was part of the plunders of the Canaanites, who in the late 17th and early 16th century BC ruled lower Egypt, the expert said. "Egyptian records tell us that those foreign rulers... plundered and desecrated the local temples and did all kinds of terrible things, and it is possible that some of this looting included a statue like this one". But to Ben-Tor the most likely way the sphinx reached Tel Hazor is in the form of a gift sent by a later Egyptian ruler.
"The third option is that it arrived in Hazor some time after the New Kingdom started in 1,550 BC, during which Egypt ruled Canaan, and maintained close relations with the local rulers, who were left on their thrones," he said. "In such a case it's possible the statue was sent by the Egyptian ruler to king of Hazor, the most important ruler in this region."

Shlomit Blecher, who manages the Selz Foundation Hazor Excavations in Memory of Yigael Yadin, was the archaeologist who actually unearthed the finding in August 2012. The statue's incrustation was meticulously removed over a period of many months by the excavation's restorer, before the intricate carvings and hieroglyphics were fully visible. "It was the last hour of the last day of the dig," she told AFP of the moment of the find. "We all leapt with joy and happiness, everyone was thrilled." "We hope the other pieces are here and that we find them in the near days," she said. Ben-Dor said the statue was most likely deliberately broken by new occupiers at Tel Hazor in an act of defiance to the old rule. Finding the sphinx was "unexpected," said Ben-Tor, "but fits" archaeological facts and findings. "When you're in a bank, you find money," he said. To Ben-Tor, however, the true coveted find would be archives buried somewhere on Tel Hazor that could serve as an inventory to the ancient city's content. "I know there are two archives," he said. "We already have 18 documents from two periods, the 17th and 14th century BC. If I found those archives, people would come running here."

He also states that only %10-%20 "or even less" of Carthage was from the "middle east" and that the rest were "aboriginal North Africans". But never explores the idea that some of the Phoenicians themselves might have been of the same "genetic stock" as those north Africans in the first place. Egyptians had numerous sites in "cannon land..."

Peter van der Veen investigates an Egyptian presence before the time of David
Noah Wiener • 02/25/2013


Peter van der Veen augmented a study by Gabriel Barkay on the Egyptian pharaohs’ rule over Bronze Age Jerusalem, uncovering Egyptian statues, architectural elements and texts attesting to their presence in the city. This 13th-century B.C.E. red granite statue depicts an Egyptian queen. The Egyptian statue’s significance went unnoticed for quite some time; uncovered by Arab workmen during the British Mandate, it was brought to a local clergyman’s house before being kept in a scholar’s office in Germany. Credit: R. Müller, Department of Prehistory, University of Mainz.
What were Egyptian pharaohs doing in Bronze Age Jerusalem?

In a BAR feature 13 years ago,1 Israeli archaeologist Gabriel Barkay investigated evidence of an Egyptian temple in Jerusalem, exposing the “Egyptianizing” of Bronze Age Jerusalem. In the March/April 2013 issue, Peter van der Veen presents new evidence of an Egyptian presence in Bronze Age Jerusalem before David made the city the Israelite capital. In “When Pharaohs Ruled Jerusalem,” Peter van der Veen brings together an array of evidence—including Egyptian statues, stylized architecture and material culture—that points to their presence in the city. But what did the Egyptian pharaohs want with Late Bronze Age Jerusalem? And where were they when David conquered the Jebusite city?

The initial study by Gabriel Barkay (which Peter van der Veen refers to as “reminiscent of nothing so much as Sherlock Holmes”) exposed Egyptianizing column capitals, a hieroglyphic stela and two Egyptian-style alabaster vessels that likely served as burial gifts. Peter van der Veen expanded the investigations of Gabriel Barkay to include figurines and Egyptian statues as well as a funerary stela referring to the local “ruler” of Bronze Age Jerusalem.

The Egyptian artifacts date to the 13th century B.C.E., during the 19th Egyptian Dynasty that included the reign of Ramesses II. Peter van der Veen writes “Egypt was not new to Canaan in the 19th dynasty … Canaan was in effect an Egyptian province during the 14th century B.C.E.” In the famous Amarna letters, Abdi-Heba, the puppet-king of Jerusalem, proclaims that “the king has placed his name in Jerusalem forever.” While Bronze Age Jerusalem was not situated on Canaanite trade routes, Peter van der Veen notes that it controlled north-south traffic between Hebron and Shechem, as well as east-west traffic from the Via Maris to the King’s Highway. The Egyptians established a garrison at Manahat, just two miles southwest of Bronze Age Jerusalem.

It seems that the Egyptian pharaohs of the 19th dynasty used local vassal rulers to run daily affairs in Late Bronze Age Jerusalem, as did their predecessors in the Amarna period. But there is almost no evidence of an Egyptian presence in Jerusalem just prior to David’s conquest, around 1000 B.C.E. The Egyptian pharaohs did not lose interest in the city; the Bible tells us that Shishak sent his army north less than a century after David’s conquest of Jerusalem.2

Peter van der Veen poses the question: “Was David able to conquer Jerusalem (in about 1000 B.C.E.) because it was defended only by the Jebusites/Canaanites, without any Egyptian presence in the city?”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes

1. Barkay, Gabriel. “What’s an Egyptian Temple Doing in Jerusalem?.” Biblical Archaeology Review, May/Jun 2000, 48-57, 67.
2. Levin, Yigal. “Did Pharaoh Sheshonq Attack Jerusalem?.” Biblical Archaeology Review, Jul/Aug 2012, 42-52, 66.


Permalink: http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/jerusalem/when-egyptian-pharaohs-ruled-bronze-age-jerusalem
stine/Israel.

African American visting...

---

South Sudan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOVvPNCZ204

Please unhide post at....
https://www.nairaland.com/1530367/when-arabian-peninsula-northeast-africa

thank you

Fulaman198:

I know the answer to most of your questions/points, but if I start writing, it will be like essays. I want to avoid that at all costs.

Understandable
Actually, if you could critique the "table of contents" in terms of events & people I should add then I can look up the info at my leisure.

KidStranglehold:
...

I thought it was going to be the black mummy video at first. Good'ol Basil Davidson summed up my central position that whether we're talking about akan, mande, Zulu, oromo, haritan, African diasporans, ancient Egyptians, etc. we are talking about people of the sahara who left with a common culture when it dried out and absorbed other groups. And basil explained it all in under in under 1 min.


Actually a desire to avoid the political show pagan was putting on along with an interest in the general topic of that thread is what made me look into and start the thread...
https://www.nairaland.com/1530367/when-arabian-peninsula-northeast-africa


You know I thought about the tebu but I wasn't sure were I would place them. I wasn't sure I should place them in the sahale or sahara(though I did mention the Garamantes) I guess I could take the old gaddafi stance and say the tebu are actually chad citizens


That said what would you add to a table of contnets dealing with the Sahale?

African American visting...

---

Namibia (part 2)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClP2IqYaLMU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETI1rIjtZcI

African Americans visting...

---

Morrocco (part 2)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYRkyFHzgq0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVzjgPwZiR8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqklJIjYtlQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiD4QITsrC4
Before 1865
Almost all the first Africans who arrived in the New World were enslaved. They came from several regions of Africa.
Their ways of living were described by themselves, in some narratives. They had to work either in plantations or in town.

Slavery was an important issue facing Churches, as the enslaved were allowed to meet for Christian services. Some Christian ministers, such as J. D. Long, wrote against slavery.

[img]http://3.bp..com/-iIa5BRwMls4/UkyumiTaZNI/AAAAAAABjYs/qPBfOHKjL2A/s1600/2+Prayer+Meeting,+Georgia,Charles+Stearns,+The+Black+Man+of+the+South+(New+York,+1872).jpg[/img]
Rural enslaved Africans used to stay after the regular worship services, in churches or in plantation “praise houses”, for singing and dancing. But, slaveholders did not allow dancing and playing drums, as usual in Africa. They also had meetings at secret places (“camp meetings”, “bush meetings”), because they needed to meet one another and share their joys, pains and hopes. In rural meetings, thousands of the enslaved were gathered and listened to itinerant preachers, and sang spirituals, for hours. In the late 1700s, they sang the precursors of spirituals, which were called “corn ditties”.



So, in rural areas, spirituals were sung, mainly outside of churches. In cities, about 1850, the Protestant City-Revival Movement created a new song genre, which was popular; for revival meetings organized by this movement, temporary tents were erected in stadiums, where the attendants could sing.

At church, hymns and psalms were sung during services. Some of them were transformed into songs of a typical African American form: they are "Dr Watts”.

The lyrics of negro spirituals were tightly linked with the lives of their authors: enslaved Africans. While work songs dealt only with their daily life, spirituals were inspired by the message of Jesus Christ and his Good News (Gospel) of the Bible, “You can be saved”. They are different from hymns and psalms, because they were a way of sharing the hard condition of being enslaved.

Many enslaved Africans in town and in plantations tried to run to a “free country”, that they called “my home” or “Sweet Canaan, the Promised Land”. This country was on the Northern side of Ohio River, that they called “Jordan”. Some negro spirituals refer to the Underground Railroad, an organization for helping enslaved Africans to run away.



NEGRO SPIRITUALS AND WORK SONGS
During slavery and afterwards, workers were allowed to sing songs during their working time. This was the case when they had to coordinate their efforts for hauling a fallen tree or any heavy load. For example, prisoners used to sing "chain gang" songs, when they worked on the road or some construction. But some "drivers" also allowed the enslaved to sing "quiet" songs, if they were not apparently against slaveholders. Such songs could be sung either by only one or by several enslaved Africans. They were used for expressing personal feeling, and for cheering one another.




NEGRO SPIRITUALS AND THE UNDERGROUND RAILROAD
The Underground Railroad (UGRR) helped the enslaved to run to free a country. A fugitive could use several ways. First, they had to walk at night, using hand lights and moonlight. When needed, they walked (“waded”) in water, so that dogs could not smell their tracks. Second, they jumped into chariot, where they could hide and ride away. These chariots stopped at some “stations”, but this word could mean any place where the enslaved had to go for being taken in charge.

So, negro spirituals like “Wade in the Water”, “The Gospel Train” and “Swing Low, Sweet Chariot” directly refer to the UGRR.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0_ndWBhvgk
Between 1865 and 1925
Slavery was abolished in 1865. Then, some African Americans were allowed to go to school and be graduated. At Fisk University, one of the first universities for African American, in Nashville (Tennessee), some educators decided to raise funds for supporting their institution. So, some educators and students made tours in the New World and in Europe, and sang negro spirituals (Fisk Jubilee Singers). Other Black universities had also singers of negro spirituals: Tuskegee Institute, etc.
Just after 1865, most of African Americans did not want to remember the songs they sung in hard days of slavery. It means that even when ordinary people sang negro spirituals, they were not proud to do so.


In the 1890s, Holiness and Sanctified churches appeared, of which was the Church of God in Christ. In these churches, the influence of African traditions was in evidence. These churches were heirs to shouts, hand clapping, foot-stomping and jubilee songs, like it was in plantation “praise houses”.

At the same time, some composers arranged negro spirituals in a new way, which was similar to the European classical music. Some artists, mainly choruses, went abroad (in Europe and Africa) and sang negro spirituals. At the same time, ministers like Charles A. Tindley, in Philadelphia, and their churches sang exciting church songs that they copyrighted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNT2oiiKKmk

Between 1925 and 1985
In the 1920s, the Black Renaissance was an artist movement concerning poetry and music. “It was an evidence of a renewed race-spirit that consciously and proudly sets itself apart”, explained Alan Locke. So, the use of dialect was taboo, in this movement. The “race-spirit” infused the work of musicians and writers like Langston Hughes. For the first time, African Americans realized that their roots were deep in the land of their birth.
The Black Renaissance had some influence on the way of singing and interpreting negro spirituals. First, the historical meaning of these songs were put forward. Then, singers were pushed to be more educated.

For example, in early Twentieth century, boys used to sing negro spirituals in schoolyards. Their way of singing was not sophisticated. But educators thought that negro spirituals are musical pieces, which must be interpreted as such. New groups were formed, such as the Highway QC’s (QC : Quincy College), and sung harmonized negro spirituals.

This constant improvement of negro spirituals gave birth to another type of Christian songs. These were inspired by the Bible (mainly the Gospel) and related to the daily life. Thomas A. Dorsey was the first who composed such new songs. He called them Gospel songs, but some people say “Dorseys”. He is considered as being the Father of Gospel music.

It is of interest to see that, during this period, African Americans began to leave the South and went North. Then, Gospel songs were more and more popular in Northern towns, like Chicago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGjRAoHxUH4


Between 1915 and 1925, many African American singers, like Paul Robeson, performed either at church or on stage, or even in movies, then negro spirituals were considered mainly as traditional songs. In the late 1930s, Sister Rosetta Tharpe dared sing Gospel songs in a nightclub. This was the very start of singing Gospel songs in many kinds of places: churches, theaters, concert halls. The number of quartets was high, at that time.


At the same time, some preachers and their congregations were also famous; some of them recorded negro spirituals and Gospel songs. Ministers, like James Cleveland, made tours with their choruses, in the United States and abroad.

In the late 1950s and early 1960s, before and during rallies for Civil Rights, demonstrators sang negro spirituals. For example, “We Shall Overcome” and “This Little Light of Mine” were popular

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK3plD59KqI

After 1985
The first Dr Martin Luther King's Day was celebrated in 1985; it became a national holiday in 1992. This event is a milestone in the history of African American: it shows that the African American community is a part of the US nation. This Day is included in the month, when Black History is celebrated through various events.
Since that first King’s Day, Negro spirituals have been considered as being pieces of the American heritage. So, they are often in the programs of events reminding Black History.

It appears that today everyone may perform Gospel music in the United States. The main issue is to know how to improve the African American integrity in singing negro spirituals and other Christian songs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTad7PkP_L8

Ok back on topic
.
.
.

(I thought you were simply curious of what I thought. I didn't think about anyone writing it)


Hmm... If you wanted to write it I could be your "co-author" on it for certain general knowledge topics. I also think I need to go back and modify it. I had just woke up when I wrote it.(sort of a knee jerk reaction)
.
I'd add more interesting/intricate topics such as...
"Use of Sahale as a rout for hajj",
"trade between Niger bend lake chad region",
"Sahale as the historic Tarikh al-Sudan"
"brief history of the hausa and Sahale"
Etc.


@kidstranglehold throw me some feedback on the table of contents in the above post