.

Please lead us not into temptation...

Lead us not into temptation...

,

!

.

There are no secrets...

Thanks @ Frank

@Rainmaker

Thanks Bro

@ayoku
I sense u are enthusiastically showing off your christian badge. That's not what this is about.
What the world wants is a solution. All u are saying, and more, has been said from the beginning yet people's sex cultures show no signs of slowing down.

Since quotations are doing us no good, what then will? That's what u should be talking about. Talk about examples of where what u are saying have changed peoples struggle with sex. U may say those people need more anointing but people will remind u of a long list of big-time "anointed" preachers who got involved in something worse -ADULTERY. I am not judging.

I am not a pro psychologist but I have explained this theory to people who come back to tell me they are no longer self-pressured into sex and they now have a healthier control over their urges. This theory has even stopped people who are porn addicts. Just by teaching them to stop fighting an unnecessary war.

So talk solutions pls.

Ayoku777

1) Do you know the Lord expects you to use your brain? We can reason and not just accept?
1a) He said "come let us reason together"
1b) He said, "my people suffer for lack of knowledge"
1c) He reasoned with Job
1d) He reasoned with Abraham
1e) He said "seek and you shall find". Seeking entails thinking.
1f) 98% of all available hardware in use today which are all products of scientific logical thoughts were not even mentioned in the Bible, but we use them even in churches.
So God, religion and the bible are not against science which is purely a product of logical thinking. In fact, H wants us to think logically.

2) I didn't imply any form of sexual misbehaviour in the life of the apostles. I merely stated the obvious: that we shouldn't assume. Neither did I.

3) On the contrary, nothing is hard about God's commands. They are all easier than calculus. I don't believe temptations. Please read:
www.nairaland.com/2158592/temptations-not-exist

What we need is sufficient understanding of a commandment and convincing reason to, or not to, do a thing. People find it hard to stop sex because they see no reason why they should.

Correction: I seek no excuses for sex. On the contrary I'd like to help people out of their struggles. When you realize that even more heinous sexual sins like pedo.philia and ra.pe are direct offshoots of that struggle, then even you will start looking for a way to help humans out rather than to continue along a loud path with that has achieved insignificant results for millennia.

Even the prison system of punishing offenders has not helped. A rapist (among six that raped and murdered a university student) who was convicted in India showed absolutely no remorse during a interview (from BBC). He is not an isolated case.

@redoil

First, you didn't read it at all. Second, you cannot apply reason since u didn't read it.

My opinion is a simple, psychologically factual representation. Use food as an example: when one fasts, one feels hungrier and thirstier and more tempted to break the fast. With no such struggle, one may not even give some foods any consideration.

@ ayoku777
I understand your purely religious approach. Mine was logical so there'd be a difference or two.

The Bible's account of the apostles was focussed on their evangelism and not their pre- and post salvation private lives. There was also no explicit validation in the Bible about your position on them. So no one knows.

At least we agree it is "hard" to abstain from sex. I support abstinence too but with a more realistic, more efficient and less 'deceptive' path to it.

A lot of the strange practices
(some are terribly strange) in
the name of sex these days
may have started as a result
our fighting this very natural
thing in us. MAN CANNOT WIN
nature. We cannot stop the
flow of a river. We can redirect
its path but not stop it. We
cannot stop the movement of
wind, nor the law of gravity, nor
the many naturally occurring
phenomena. We can study and
understand them, put them to
our use, but not stop nature.
Shouldn't that be the way
forward?

Religion teaches us to stop the
nature within. So man
developed other outlets, all of
which religion continues to
fight with almost zero success.
I read about how a bishop in an
African country summoned ALL
the serving clergy under him to
declare under oath if anyone
had never had an inappropriate sexual affair since after they got anointed. Only one person is positive. Of course I can never mock the clergy.
Just stating the obvious.

From conversations and write ups, I observe that some people are not very clear on Love as defined in the bible, preached by Jesus Christ. It is not necessarily a religious subject. It is logical common sense.

GOD’S LOVE TO MAN
God's love refers to everything positively available to humankind even before his existence. It will include all the systems that make up his body, all the things and systems in nature with which he produces newer systems and all the laws he has to work with like gravity, electromagnetism etc. Electricity has been in the world. Man just discovered it. Man will discover a lot more things in the future.

LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOUR
Loving to neighbours is to do unto others what u would that they do to you. It is not just charity - money, clothes, food etc. To love is to be truly concerned about the progress and development of others, and to invest in that progress in any way one can. It could be by teaching, praying, guiding or offering physical, emotional, psychological or spiritual (I don't know much about spiritual though) inputs in a completely selfless manner. It includes everything man does to make life better. So all those around the world who fund and engage in research to end cancer, HIV, Polio, Malaria, new diseases, etc are filled with love. Those who have researched and produced technology with which man is able to accomplish more (human improvement and development) are people of love. The man who owns the store down my street saves me the trouble of driving to the market - it is a gift of love to my neighbourhood. In our respective daily tasks, we may also be showing love.

MOTIVE
Motive is an important issue in this discussion. Can it be love when we expect something in return? No, It is a transaction – emotional, social, economic , financial etc. If a man helps a lady while expecting to be paid back in those ways you know too well, is he loving? A politician who builds infrastructure with his own personal resources as a means of getting re-elected made a political, or social, transaction. One who donates in church or in a community with the sole intention of impressing, only made a social transaction – image laundering. It is love when the motive is to improve the lot of the other human being (regardless of whether people know or not). Just the thought of selflessly doing so accounts for love. So those who start up selfless initiatives but who need the financial (or otherwise) backing of others are blessed instruments of love. The parable of the Good Samaritan is quite instructive here.

Blessed are the many people around the world who love, for it is more blessed to give love than to receive it. Respect to the Bill and Merinda Gates foundation. Respect to Nairaland’s TeHN. Respect to all who contributed in thought, prayer and resources to save others.

From conversations and write ups, I observe that some people are not very clear on Love as defined in the bible, preached by Jesus Christ. It is not necessarily a religious subject. It is logical common sense.

GOD’S LOVE TO MAN
God's love refers to everything positively available to humankind even before his existence. It will include all the systems that make up his body, all the things and systems in nature with which he produces newer systems and all the laws he has to work with like gravity, electromagnetism etc. Electricity has been in the world. Man just discovered it. Man will discover a lot more things in the future.

LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOUR
Loving to neighbours is to do unto others what u would that they do to you. It is not just charity - money, clothes, food etc. To love is to be truly concerned about the progress and development of others, and to invest in that progress in any way one can. It could be by teaching, praying, guiding or offering physical, emotional, psychological or spiritual (I don't know much about spiritual though) inputs in a completely selfless manner. It includes everything man does to make life better. So all those around the world who fund and engage in research to end cancer, HIV, Polio, Malaria, new diseases, etc are filled with love. Those who have researched and produced technology with which man is able to accomplish more (human improvement and development) are people of love. The man who owns the store down my street saves me the trouble of driving to the market - it is a gift of love to my neighbourhood. In our respective daily tasks, we may also be showing love.

MOTIVE
Motive is an important issue in this discussion. Can it be love when we expect something in return? No, It is a transaction – emotional, social, economic , financial etc. If a man helps a lady while expecting to be paid back in those ways you know too well, is he loving? A politician who builds infrastructure with his own personal resources as a means of getting re-elected made a political, or social, transaction. One who donates in church or in a community with the sole intention of impressing, only made a social transaction – image laundering. It is love when the motive is to improve the lot of the other human being (regardless of whether people know or not). Just the thought of selflessly doing so accounts for love. So those who start up selfless initiatives but who need the financial (or otherwise) backing of others are blessed instruments of love. The parable of the Good Samaritan is quite instructive here.

Blessed are the many people around the world who love, for it is more blessed to give love than to receive it. Respect to the Bill and Merinda Gates foundation. Respect to Nairaland’s TeHN. Respect to all who contributed in thought, prayer and resources to save others.

Come on Johny, go easy on these. I haven't said anything different from the original post.

About born again? I meant I know atheists whose disposition to life are in line with christians call born-again. I also know theists who live like there is no God.

@Johnydon22

There is almost some sort of stigma attached to atheism by the religious in Africa (no, not just African). But deeper analysis of the thought processes involved on both sides will reveal we all chase after the same thing and do the same thing but dressed differently. So forget the window dressing.

Atheists are our brothers. We should mean you no wrong. And same goes for you guys to theists. The fights really ain't necessary.

Some atheists are better born-agains. And vice versa.
Just look deeper.

A lot of the strange practices (some are terribly strange) in the name of sex these days may have started as a result our fighting this very natural thing in us. MAN CANNOT WIN nature. We cannot stop the flow of a river. We can redirect its path but not stop it. We cannot stop the movement of wind, nor the law of gravity, nor the many naturally occurring phenomena. We can study and understand them, put them to our use, but not stop nature. Shouldn't that be the way forward?

Religion teaches us to stop the nature within. So man developed other outlets, all of which religion continues to fight with almost zero success. I read about how a bishop in an African country summoned ALL the serving clergy under him to declare under oath if anyone had never had a sexual affair since after they got anointed. Only one person is positive. Of course I can never mock the clergy. Just stating the obvious.

@Queening

I prefer not to delve deeply into the Bible since the essence isn't to replace your pastor's teachings. My approach is purely "common-sensical". That said, consider these:


1) The Ten Commandments condemns adultery. No mention of preM sex.

2) The Lord Jesus Christ talked about ONLY two laws (or one law, depending on how u look at it) for mankind which is: to Love God with all we have and to Love our neighbours as we love ourselves. The most acceptable interpretation of love for neighbour is the Golden Rule - do unto other what u wish others do to unto you. So provided preM sex is consensual, it is appropriately within the confines of the Golden rule.

3) St. Pauls is the one who mentioned fornication. But remember we know he mentioned somewhere that he can speak as a himself sometimes, not always as an oracle of God. So maybe the same applied there. Just like he said shouldn't marry, except they can't hold themselves.
God Himself had spoken.

But then read the post first. I don't mean the gates should be opened.

@TheRainmaker1
@Alexpissu

Nail-on-the-head points.

@slinkky
Yes, most humans believe pre-marital sex is a sin so why don't they abide by it. Read it, first. I'm actually helping.

@pretydiva
Then u need not comment. One can't judge a book by its cover, abi?

@ pretydiva

If you read it at all, you'd notice I wasn't trying to convince anyone.

reactions are welcome

reactions are welcome

Why do you think people can’t stay away from sex before marriage? Maybe we should accept the truths of this matter.
First: Sex is sweet (no vulgarity is intended here please)
Second: sex cannot be a sin (pure common sense)
Third : yes there are understandable limits
Fourth: this truth about sex, on the contrary, actually empowers us against “the temptation”

Sweet sex
This is quite simple, Sex is sweet (no vulgarity is intended here please). Sex appeals to all of us. The fact that something as beautiful as a baby can come as a result is just a welcome addition. We force ourselves, encouraged by the mal-presentation of sex by religions, into mental denial of this fact thus pushing ourselves into an unwinnable internal struggle between a natural expression and a doctrinally imposed abstinence. Several years (millennia) of treating sex as a sin has not empowered people against it. More than 95% of humans enter into some form of premarital sexual activity. There are very few "saints", if any at all. So is sex actually a sin?

Sex is not a sin
No, sex is not a sin. If sex is a sin then it is a sin regardless of marital status and age. Murder is a sin. Age, office, marital, parental or any status will not make murder any less sinful. This applies to other sins/crimes like rape and stealing - a child, just like an adult, who ‘steals’ money will be taught and disciplined in any society with varying degrees of punishments. Adultery is, no doubt, a sin because within the confines of the agreement in marriage, that breach is both legally and socially not tolerable (it is stealing).
Today, religion is also beginning to reconsider. Religion (or Christianity in particular) which all along has held sex before marriage as dirty now encourages people to know the libido levels of their would-be spouses to avoid libido conflict (libido mismatch). Since there are no medical tests for libido levels (feel free to correct me), how do people find out about other people’s sex drives without doing the thing-- severally for that matter? How can one tell if her man’s thing can stand. How will a man know if her lady is sex frigid? Church contradiction, you may say.
Again some issues in the world cannot be described as only either black or white. There is a colour grey in between (255 distinct computer-recognisable shades of grey as a matter of fact). The declaration of sex as a sin by religions classified it as bad. The question is, which sex? So people developed their own ‘grey’ with different levels of abuse. So it may not be coi.tus, but such practices like voy.eur, masturb.ation, BD.SM, conili.ngus, homosexuality, you name it, developed. Even ardent religious people who condemn sex before marriage with intensity are guilty of one form or the other. If u then consider the wise words of the Lord, that even thinking about it is the same as the very act itself, then to the EYES above, virtually all men hold it not to be sin regardless of their "righteous" confessions. Everyone struggles, without success, to keep ‘the beast’ in check. Listening to a typical ‘born again’ Christian describe how calamitous sex before marriage is, one would assume murder to be a much lighter sin. I know a pastor whose ministry is dedicated to this fight with his many unfounded theories. I make bold to dare him. Or anyone for that matter!


The boundaries
Am i suggesting no limitations to sex? No I am not. I am only saying it is not a crime as craftily taught for millennia. But it shouldn’t be a free for all affair like that specie of monkeys (bonobos). The limits should appeal to logical common-sense. Psychological, pathological, physiological, socio-economic and societal health concerns should all play parts in whatever controls are set individually or institutionally. For physiological reasons, as an example, only people within an age bracket can have sex. Someone who cannot control his blood pressure may wisely choose not to have sex regardless of marital status. And it makes all the sense to know your sexually transmitted diseases’ (STD) status and that of your partner while employing all possible preventive measures to be safe and to avoid unwanted/unplanned-for consequences.

Empowerment
Sex, like most desires, is controlled by our thoughts. The more the thought, the more the effect it leaves on us. An x-rated movie can rearrange our priorities in minutes. The constant struggle, both internally and externally (when we hear it talked about or preached), is a focussed thought on the subject matter and quite often leaves its mark. Every new mental romance with the subject via sensual stimuli increases the intensifying pressure to do something.
So what if we stopped this struggle. Not struggling to ward off the thought of sex means we think of it less. It becomes as common a thought as thinking about the air we breathe. Everything we don’t struggle for attracts minimal attention. The air we breathe, water in a stream, the freedoms we have. In like manner we won’t pay a lot of attention to sex thoughts like: does he or she want sex?; is he/she giving me a sign?; who knows what it will be like to try this or that out?. All such thoughts effectively glue our attention to sex, piles pressure which leads to the natural consequence of easing off at any convenient opportunity. All those I know who share my belief that sex is not a sin effectively keep thoughts, and by extension the practice, of sex in proper control. They seem to sit well with the one partner theory – married or not. They never waste valuable time plotting for their next hit. And they are not deliberately sexually suggestive (tempting) to members of the opposite sex.

Conclusion.
We have to stop fighting a war where there is none. Accept sex as a normal biological demand that is just inherent in our nature. Exactly the same natural urge fuels sex both pre and post marriage. This is the reason society and religion has not been able to stop it. If people can quench the sex fire before marriage (which is the religious ideal), they will develop a psychological problem that needs plenty of treatment for the fire to be rekindled and burn again. No wonder most of those who tell us from the pulpits not to engage in sex are themselves ‘offenders’ too (I’m not being judgemental). But if we accept the obvious, the internal struggles which enrich an insignificant desire to the tornado urge we feel, with all of its attendant risks to society, can be checked much the same way we control our very natural desire to drink water - painlessly.
Thanks for reading.

On the contrary, this is in no way trying to promote sexual activity. No! No!! It is already too high without any promotions.
I believe that not categorizing it as a sin empowers humans.
Just logical.

Why do you think people can’t stay away from sex before marriage? Maybe we should accept the truths of this matter.
First: Sex is sweet (no vulgarity is intended here please)
Second: sex cannot be a sin (pure common sense)
Third : yes there are understandable limits
Fourth: this truth about sex, on the contrary, actually empowers us against “the temptation”

Sweet sex
This is quite simple, Sex is sweet (no vulgarity is intended here please). Sex appeals to all of us. The fact that something as beautiful as a baby can come as a result is just a welcome addition. We force ourselves, encouraged by the mal-presentation of sex by religions, into mental denial of this fact thus pushing ourselves into an unwinnable internal struggle between a natural expression and a doctrinally imposed abstinence. Several years (millennia) of treating sex as a sin has not empowered people against it. More than 95% of humans enter into some form of premarital sexual activity. There are very few "saints", if any at all. So is sex actually a sin?

Sex is not a sin
No, sex is not a sin. If sex is a sin then it is a sin regardless of marital status and age. Murder is a sin. Age, office, marital, parental or any status will not make murder any less sinful. This applies to other sins/crimes like rape and stealing - a child, just like an adult, who ‘steals’ money will be taught and disciplined in any society with varying degrees of punishments. Adultery is, no doubt, a sin because within the confines of the agreement in marriage, that breach is both legally and socially not tolerable (it is stealing).
Today, religion is also beginning to reconsider. Religion (or Christianity in particular) which all along has held sex before marriage as dirty now encourages people to know the libido levels of their would-be spouses to avoid libido conflict (libido mismatch). Since there are no medical tests for libido levels (feel free to correct me), how do people find out about other people’s sex drives without doing the thing-- severally for that matter? How can one tell if her man’s thing can stand. How will a man know if her lady is sex frigid? Church contradiction, you may say.
Again some issues in the world cannot be described as only either black or white. There is a colour grey in between (255 distinct computer-recognisable shades of grey as a matter of fact). The declaration of sex as a sin by religions classified it as bad. The question is, which sex? So people developed their own ‘grey’ with different levels of abuse. So it may not be coi.tus, but such practices like voy.eur, masturb.ation, BD.SM, conili.ngus, homosexuality, you name it, developed. Even ardent religious people who condemn sex before marriage with intensity are guilty of one form or the other. If u then consider the wise words of the Lord, that even thinking about it is the same as the very act itself, then to the EYES above, virtually all men hold it not to be sin regardless of their "righteous" confessions. Everyone struggles, without success, to keep ‘the beast’ in check. Listening to a typical ‘born again’ Christian describe how calamitous sex before marriage is, one would assume murder to be a much lighter sin. I know a pastor whose ministry is dedicated to this fight with his many unfounded theories. I make bold to dare him. Or anyone for that matter!


The boundaries
Am i suggesting no limitations to sex? No I am not. I am only saying it is not a crime as craftily taught for millennia. But it shouldn’t be a free for all affair like that specie of monkeys (bonobos). The limits should appeal to logical common-sense. Psychological, pathological, physiological, socio-economic and societal health concerns should all play parts in whatever controls are set individually or institutionally. For physiological reasons, as an example, only people within an age bracket can have sex. Someone who cannot control his blood pressure may wisely choose not to have sex regardless of marital status. And it makes all the sense to know your sexually transmitted diseases’ (STD) status and that of your partner while employing all possible preventive measures to be safe and to avoid unwanted/unplanned-for consequences.

Empowerment
Sex, like most desires, is controlled by our thoughts. The more the thought, the more the effect it leaves on us. An x-rated movie can rearrange our priorities in minutes. The constant struggle, both internally and externally (when we hear it talked about or preached), is a focussed thought on the subject matter and quite often leaves its mark. Every new mental romance with the subject via sensual stimuli increases the intensifying pressure to do something.
So what if we stopped this struggle. Not struggling to ward off the thought of sex means we think of it less. It becomes as common a thought as thinking about the air we breathe. Everything we don’t struggle for attracts minimal attention. The air we breathe, water in a stream, the freedoms we have. In like manner we won’t pay a lot of attention to sex thoughts like: does he or she want sex?; is he/she giving me a sign?; who knows what it will be like to try this or that out?. All such thoughts effectively glue our attention to sex, piles pressure which leads to the natural consequence of easing off at any convenient opportunity. All those I know who share my belief that sex is not a sin effectively keep thoughts, and by extension the practice, of sex in proper control. They seem to sit well with the one partner theory – married or not. They never waste valuable time plotting for their next hit. And they are not deliberately sexually suggestive (tempting) to members of the opposite sex.

Conclusion.
We have to stop fighting a war where there is none. Accept sex as a normal biological demand that is just inherent in our nature. Exactly the same natural urge fuels sex both pre and post marriage. This is the reason society and religion has not been able to stop it. If people can quench the sex fire before marriage (which is the religious ideal), they will develop a psychological problem that needs plenty of treatment for the fire to be rekindled and burn again. No wonder most of those who tell us from the pulpits not to engage in sex are themselves ‘offenders’ too (I’m not being judgemental). But if we accept the obvious, the internal struggles which enrich an insignificant desire to the tornado urge we feel, with all of its attendant risks to society, can be checked much the same way we control our very natural desire to drink water - painlessly.
Thanks for reading.

How do you think religions and denominations spring up?
A minor shift in opinion creates a denomination. A major shift in opinion creates a religion.

Same reply to you, Johnnydon

@ kay17
No! No! No! I didn't try to prove anything. Please read it well. I merely opined that theism and atheism, religion and science, have a common purpose.

By God's love, mentioned only in the concluding part, I referred to everything positively available to humankind even before his existence. It will include all the systems that make up his body, all the systems in nature with which he produces newer systems and all the laws he has to work with like gravity, electromagnetism etc. Electricity has been in the world. Man just discovered it.

Human love is not just charity - money, clothes, food etc. It includes everything man does to make life better. So all those around the world who research to end cancer, HIV, Polio, Malaria etc are filled with love. Those who have researched and produced technology with which man does more (human improvement) are people of love. The man who owns the store down my street saves me the trouble of driving to the market - it is a gift of love to my neighbourhood. In whatever work you, Kay17, do u may also be showing love.

I won't derail anymore from the topic.

@ Kay17

First, you have greatly derailed from the topic. We can extensively discuss love but not on this thread.

Second, you have gone personal, talking about me instead of the ideas brought forth.

Third, I am not wooing anyone to theism or atheism. Since u already have answers u are comfortable with, why ask questions? Aren't you the one craving for attention?

@ Dux01

OK o.


@ Kay17

Lol...that got a smile outta moi.
Absolutely No. I do not crave love.
I have more than enough love about me.
Btw, the love I refer to is that preached by Jesus. To do unto other what u would that they to you. It is more blessed to give love than to receive. I am an ardent giver of love actually. To love is to be trully concerned about the progress of other and to invest in that progress in any way one can. It could be by teaching, praying, guiding or offering physical, emotional, psychological or spiritual (I don't know much about spiritual though) inputs in a completely selfless manner.

@ Dux01

I suppose you didn't read all of what I wrote. I believe that atheists ACTUALLY believe and search for God just like you. The intensity, method and specifics of the belief and search may differ between theists and atheists (just like between religions) but the purpose, motive and direction of that search are prcisely the same. Some are more ardent in seeking than most theists.
Forget what christians or theism calls things and just focus on what is being described: you may say "God talking to people" and atheists say "inspiration"; you say "prayer", they say "thought"; and the likes.

If Christianity, and religion in general, keeps labelling others to score a point, they forget Jesus ate with the Gentiles, accepted Samaritans and dined with outcasts to show that it is not what people and groups are called that endears them to God. Peter was told in his dream to choose from all of what God created and eat without discrimination. Jesus said that not all those who call Him Father Father will make it to Heaven but those who abide by the commandment(s) of God. And that commandment is only Love - for God and for fellow man.