Nah guy. I posted more than 30 scriptural references. At the end of the day you are still saying that i said.

Jesus refuted the devil on the point of whom worship should go to. He never argued as to the devil giving rulership to whom he wants. He could have refuted that too. Besides the Devil knew Jesus knew who controlled wordly earthly kingdoms. About 5 of the scriptures that i posted came directly from Jesus mouth where he acknowledged the devil as the ruler of the world. If all the kingdoms of the world were not under the domain of the Devil, Jesus would not have said so. He was not offering Jesus something that was not his. Human rulership was under and still is Under Satans control. Jesus acknowledged this several times and so did the early apostles including John

Besides if God had given rulership to men in these wordly kingdoms, why then would Jesus differentiate between the source of his own kingdom, which is from God, and that of wordly kingdoms? Why does the commision to preach directed to only one kingdom, a divine one as opposed to any wordly kingdom then nor in the future. If the bible says that the whole world is under the control of the devil who do you think is in control of wordly govts?

Jesus while on earth discouraged the use of physical battle to save even him. The conflict of wordly nations had no bearing on true christianity. The apostles also admonished Christians against human wars. If Jesus followers were not to resort to fights to save the son of God, i very much doubt any human Govt is worth dying for. The fight Christians have is against the spirit rulers of this world who would interfare in their fufilling their assaigned commision

FUNNY ENOUGH YOU DODGED ALL THE SCRIPTURES THAT

1 CLEARLY IDENTIFIES THE DEVIL AS THE ONE CONTROLLING THE WORLD'S AFFAIRS

2 TELLS CHRISTIANS TO BE SEPARATE FROM WORLD AFFAIRS

3 SHOWS THAT GOD WOULD DESTROY ALL HUMAN RULERSHIP AND ANYTHING THAT IS ASSOCIATED WITH IT AND THEN THE RIGHTFUL RULERSHIP OF THE WORLD WOULD BE HANDED BACK TO CHRIST

YOU CLEARLY DODGED THE DISGRACEFUL AND ROTTEN WORKS OF THE CHURCH, THEIR WORKS HAVING CLEARLY EXPOSED HER.

God still remains the rightful owner of the world though the affairs of the world are controlled by the devil. God still has supreme power to shape events to fufill his plans and purposes. For example he used a chosen nation to bring his seed that would redeem mankind. Israel was a theocracy that was used by God to fufill his purposes.

Now guy this is a useless debate if
1 The example Jesus and his disciples displayed towards wordly politics don't mean a thing to you.

2 All the biblical scriptures that clearly show that the devil is controlling human affairs and is the ruler of this world are to be ignored

3 Christian separateness from world affairs and love among the brotherhood as identifying marks of true christianity is supperceeded in your mind by national alligiances.

4 Most importantly, the destruction of ALL human rulership and establishment of the only KIngdom that God approves of, under his son.

If these do not help you, im afraid i can't

N/B

Israel cannot be used to compare the nations of the worl coz

1 Isreal was for the sole purpose of advancing true worship and divine plans (non of which is applicable to wordly nations today)

2 True worshippers of God were not killing themselves in war (unlike Catholics and Protestants killing each other)



Also saying that Jesus did not use the internet, wear pants or drive a car is irrelevant too coz

1 Jesus used the means of transportation available during his day.

2 He wore skirts, the type of Jewish clothing available during his day

3 He used the means of communication available during his day

But Political power was available and was offered to him but he rejected it.


So my last words remain what it is. After a in depth examination of the bible

POLITICS IS NOT FOR TRUE CHRISTIANS

and one other thing

Jesus has laid out the identifying marks of true christianity.

He also said that by their fruits they shall be known.

2 Cor 11:14,15 shows that the Devil keeps transforming himself into an angel of light and so do his ministers.

Christiandom has been parading itself as an angel of light. But as Jesus said, by their works they shall be known. Which brings us back to examining the works of Christiandom

sage:

Well for the pro Christianity with politics, i have a lil food for thought why separateness from the world and its politics (human rulership handed out by the devil) is a must for true christianity and christians.

1 For those that use Israel as an example, Israel was a chosen nation, a special possesion under a convenant, largely a theocracy and had a mandate and purpose from God. That though ended after the death of Jesus and the law convenant was no longer binding. Which nation today does God wholy support?

2 Who does the politics of the Nations glorify. Does it vindicate the only Goverment of God under his son or are their national intrests their priority? Are the nations pursuing the will of God?

3 During the wars of the nations, for eg 2nd world war, so called christianity (actually a big time harlot) was involved in one of the greatest debacles of its history like it has done since apostacy crept in and still does today. The German Cardinals and their Vatican connection asked the people to pray for Germany because God was with them The German religious leaders blessed the troops and told Hitler that God was with them and asked the citizens to pray for the country. The Italian religious leaders and the Vatican blessed Italian troops and the Facist goverment and told them that God was with them and that the citizens should pray for the country. The Church of England blessed english troops and supported the goverment and asked the people to pray for the country since God was with them. The same story in france, eastern europe and the United States and much of the world.

What was the end result?

Millions of Catholics killing fellow Catholics

Millions of Protestants killing fellow Protestants (Anglicans, Lutherans, Episcopelians etc)

Catholic and Protestant Legislators voting to go to war and Kill fellow Catholics and Protestants

Catholic and Protestant Prime Ministers and Heads of states and Goverments signing of war acts to kill other Catholics and protestants.

The general so called Christians praying to God to help them to kill and finish off enemy countries where millions who profess the same faith live.

Everybody believing that God is with their own country . Hilarious. Please guys who was God with in these situations.

What a shame!

What has happened to the hallmarks of true christianity

1 Love among each other.

2 Separateness from the world.

3 Primary comission to preach about the rulership of christ which will destroy present goverments

4 Beign objects of hatred from all these worldly nations (because of non participation in its affairs)

Compare todays so called christianity with true first century christianity and its a sorry sight

Irrespective of if we want to acknowledge it or not, The truth remains that early christians advoided the politics of their day because worldy politics was and still is incompactible with true christianity. They realised that God's destruction of human rulership (and anything or people associated with it and YES THE HARLOT MASQUERADING TODAY AS CHRISTIANITY) was a certainty.

and my contrast with what 1st Century Christianity could have looked like if they had mired themselves in the politics of their day

sage:

The ancient nation of Israel served the sole purpose of advancing True worship. True Christianity points to the only solution to mankinds problem as the restoration of divine rule under Christ. It proclaims God's judgement on the nations. True Christianity and politics of the world are incompactible

Lets create a scenerio here.

Apostle John as state governor.

Rev (Apostle)Peter saying its not Mattew Thomas but David Hosea that God gave him a vision would be the right leader for the nation.

Jesus on a campaign trail for presidency.

Cardinal (Apostle)Paul now a senator by the will of God

Now in times of conflicting national interest

President Jesus tells the nation that God is with them and that they should go and kill people of the nation were Senator Paul is from. Senator Paul is telling his own people that God is with them and that the country of President Jesus is the enemy and God will help them to finish them off. Rev (apostle) peter telling his own Nation that God is with them and that since a 'God fearing' "Born Again" David Hosea was appointed by God , he has also been told by God that their country would win against the Country of President Jesus and Senator Paul. and finish them off. In all this Governor John is tryig to protect his own state interests.

At the end of the day shall we just say we are true christians doing our national duty and at the same time maintaining what clearly identifies ture christainity

1 Love among brothers
2 Advancement of the only Rulership God appoves of
3 Seperation from the world


Imagine Jesus and the early Christians miring themselves in the political realm of their day

How much Christiandom has deviated from the work the master of the harvest has assigned. So sad for her. Her involvement in politics is inexcusable and her judgement unadvoidable. Religion and politics has been littred with blood. Revelation was very apt in her description of this harlot (which actually encompasses more than Christiandom) Her disgusting alliances and her acts of unfaithfulness to her primary commision shall be called to mind in the sight of God and her alliances with the Beastly kings of the earth would not save her.

.

What a disgusting harlot christiandom is. The king of God's kingdom Jesus is looking on as this so called steward abandons the commision that is laid out by Jesus and turns to promoting human govts, adorning themselves in Man glorifying robes, parading God dishonouring teachings and practices, her history soaked with blood, apostacy and harlotry with human rulers and claiming to be his true sevants at the end of the day .

Little wonder God's judgement on her (and all other parts of that harlot) will be decisive, just and awe inspiring.

I dont think any of us here will honestly examine Christiandom and say she does not deserve every single bit of it.

Pick up your bible guy, the churches are hiding the truth


1 Who rules the world?

Luke 4:6 The devil showed him all the kingdoms of the Earth and their glory and said that all this has been delivered to me AND IT IS TO
WHOM I WANT THAT I GIVE IT TO. (it couldnt have been more clear from the devil and Jesus knew it was true so he didnot argue that
point)

1st John 5:19: The whole world is in the power of the Devil.

John 14:30: The ruler of this world has no hold on Jesus.

John 12:31 The ruler of the world judged, is to be cast or thrown out (similar to John 16:11)

2nd Corinthians 4:4 Devil the God of this world



2 Influence of Satan on human rulership and Gods plan for all human rulership

1st John 5:19

Daniel 2:44 The God of Heaven to establish his own kingdom that will crush all human rulership and bring them to an end

Rev 16:14-16: Satan incites the rulers of the earth and God to destroy all human rulership.

Ephisians 6:12 Christians have a battle against world leaders and the invisible spirit rulers who control human rulership

Psalms 110:5. Rulers to be broken to pieces in the day of God's anger.

Psalms 2:8,9 Nations to become the inheritance of God's anointed king. Human Kingdoms to be broken to pieces.

Dan 7: 13,14: Rulership to be given back rightfully to Christ



3 What influences Christian attitudes towards wordly political power

John 6: 14,15- People are amazed and happy at Jesus works try to confer human rulership on him. He declines

James 4:4 . Friendship with the world is enemity with God.

John 15:19 Christians to be separate from the world (the world would hate them as a direct result of this)

John 17:16 Separateness from the world a must.

John 18:36 Jesus Kingdom not from this world or the same source as the other wordly kingdoms

1st John 2 15-17. The world is passing away (Together with its its military and political desires)

James 1:27. Christians to be separate, without spot from worldly affairs.


4 Do true worshippers of God place their hope in men?

Jer 10:23 Jeremiah acknowledging to God that It does not belong to man to direct his own ways.

Ps 146: 3,4 : Do not put trust in Men coz no salvation comes from anyman.

Ecc 8:9 Man has oppressed man to his affliction


5. Commission for true Christians

Matt 24:14. The news of God's Kingdom to be declared accross the corners of the earth.

Acts 1:19-20 True christians to witness about Jesus to all the Earth

6 The hope of True Christians lies not with any human Govt but with the Kingdom of God under Christ. The kingdom that will wipe away all tears from all faces, make wars to cease to the extremities of the earth and do away with death forever plus a million other benefits
Rev 21:3,4 (and a host of a million scriptures that will be provided on request

@Stimulus if you didnt know you are in for a suprise

I need to tune down my tone, but it beats me how something that is so clear is so hard for some people to see.

The ancient nation of Israel served the sole purpose of advancing True worship. True Christianity points to the only solution to mankinds problem as the restoration of divine rule under Christ. It proclaims God's judgement on the nations. True Christianity and politics of the world are incompactible

Lets create a scenerio here.

Apostle John as state governor.

Rev (Apostle)Peter saying its not Mattew Thomas but David Hosea that God gave him a vision would be the right leader for the nation.

Jesus on a campaign trail for presidency.

Cardinal (Apostle)Paul now a senator by the will of God

Now in times of conflicting national interest

President Jesus tells the nation that God is with them and that they should go and kill people of the nation were Senator Paul is from. Senator Paul is telling his own people that God is with them and that the country of President Jesus is the enemy and God will help them to finish them off. Rev (apostle) peter telling his own Nation that God is with them and that since a 'God fearing' "Born Again" David Hosea was appointed by God , he has also been told by God that their country would win against the Country of President Jesus and Senator Paul. and finish them off. In all this Governor John is tryig to protect his own state interests.

At the end of the day shall we just say we are true christians doing our national duty and at the same time maintaining what clearly identifies ture christainity

1 Love among brothers
2 Advancement of the only Rulership God appoves of
3 Seperation from the world


Imagine Jesus and the early Christians miring themselves in the political realm of their day

How much Christiandom has deviated from the work the master of the harvest has assigned. So sad for her. Her involvement in politics is inexcusable and her judgement unadvoidable. Religion and politics has been littred with blood. Revelation was very apt in her description of this harlot (which actually encompasses more than Christiandom) Her disgusting alliances and her acts of unfaithfulness to her primary commision shall be called to mind in the sight of God and her alliances with the Beastly kings of the earth would not save her.

stimulus:

@sage,

That being the case, could you please tell us what you make of Romans 13:1?

"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God."

good point guy. I expected somebody to raise that point.

Different bible passages that clearly show that the devil is the ruler of the world do not contradict Romans 13:1. Paul simply acknowledged the fact that human rulership would not be here without God's permission of it.
For example Jer 12 :1 and 2 says that God planted the wicked and has let them grow and that the works of the wicked are flourishing. Jeremiah spoke of it as if God had planted the wicked and then let them flourish but he was not implying that God was literarily planting wickedness. Jeremiah simply acknowledged the fact that the wicked were existing and flourishing simply because of God's permission. If he did not allow it, there would be no wicked one. So God allows wicked ones and wickedness to thrive until his own due time to take care of those.

In the same vein God allows and permits human rulership to continue till his own due time.

Note that permission and approval are two different things. There are a lot of things that God permits and allows to happen even though he disproves of them. But that in no way alters his plans about dealing with those things at his due time.

The early christians, for example Paul, used the provisions that Caesar made to spread the word. Paul used his Roman citizenship to seek justice in times of trials and spread the word with it. He enjoyed the benefits of Roman citizenship but was not going to do anything to help Rome in a political way or engage in their politics. Same for the early Christians in Judea.
Caesar is God's servant in that sense.

Christians are to be obedient to the Govts, pay their taxes and abide by law. They should not try any subversive moves on Govt. Where the Govt commands conflicts with their God given responsibilities though, God's commands takes precedent.

An example can be taken from Jesus and the early apostles. The nations that they lived in needed strong political will and leadership. But the truth is now as it was back then that they realised that no human rulership would solve mankinds problems nor achieve God's purpose. Only one could, and that is the rulership under Christ and that was the only kingdom that Christians were to lend their whole support to.
The early christians did not support any human ruler nor did they take part in the political realms of their times.

The great apostacy changed everything.

God in the meantime allows and permits several things including suffering, wickedness, imperfection, rulership under the influence of the devil etc to continue. He has already stated what his plans regarding these are and he intends to remove them all when his time is due.

TayoD:

@Sage,

Technically, the covenant with Isreal is not over but only in abeyance. Isreal, like Schwazeneger will say: Will be back!!! What you are trying to say is that the nation of Isreal was/is a tool in God's hands to get His will done. Nations are still His tool today, and Governments are His servants. And by the way, Melchizedek was a gentile king and a Priest of the Most High God whose priesthood is likened only to that of Jesus Christ!!!
Have you read Matthew 25:31-46 before? In that prophecy, Jesus mentions the judgment of nations. Some nations will do His will and will inherit the kingdom while those who do not will enter into perdition. The basis of the judgment of the nations is their works - how they treated Isreal. Before you jump to conclusions, please realise no individual will enter His kingdom based on works but on faith in Christ.
When Paul mentions that Rulers are God's servant to execute judgment, does it sound like they are pursuing God's will or not? Are they in tandem with God's will or the devil's in fulfilling the duties of their office?
I expected a better argument than this. A Christian is duty bound to pray for his leaders whether they are doing right or otherwise. Compromise on the part of a believer is not due to external influence but from an internal weakness. Just like those Governments abused their offices in pursuing evil, the Christians abused theirs as well by compromising their faith. Daniel and the other Jews never compromised their faiths in the face of Govenment opposition. Those are the examples they should have emulated.

1. We've all witnessed your exemplerary love on nairaland - such love that those of us who believe in participating in politics have not displayed - right?

2. What's your definition of the world - politics?

3. You are talking of a future event. In the mean time, the present government, just like you is Christ's servant.

4. How many hate mails have you received today? How many times have you being flogged and thrown in prison like the early disciples which you are refering to? So the early disciples were hated for not taking part in politics?
Are you pointing an accusing finger or are you a part of the cancer you are quick to condemn?
So you are a harlot? Or are you separating yourself from the body! There is no iota of truth to suggest that early disciples stayed away from politics. Paul used the politics of his days to further his cause. The nation of Isreal was in servitude during those times and the Jews kept their tradition of having elders rule over them.

I can only say to this.
A comparison with ancient Israel is flawed completely. True worshippers of God did not kill each other and the nation had one sole purpose ie the advancement of pure worship and vindication of God's soveriengty. This cannot be said of the present wordly nations.

The love Jesus was talking about was to identify the Brotherhood. The brotherhood and the commision that they had would superceed anyother obligation to any human govt. If it was missing then those were not true disciples of Christ. Killing each other because human govts ordered it is a lame excuse. When the early christians were ordered to deviate from their primary commision as the people taught that their preaching will sabotage their rulership and the romans too,they clearly refused.

Seperation from wordly politics is the most important step step because it keeps true christians seperate form wordly strife, conflicts contentions and participation in rulership that comes from the devil, things that have no place in true christianity.

The Judgement of nations depends partly on how they treat the spiritual israel of God not anyother wordly nations. In the first century, the nations treated that spiritual israel with disdain and until the great apostasy that saw the Church and state mix together, it was so. When the Church started to colaborate with the state, Jesus admonition that as long as they did what they were supposed to do the way that they were supposed to do it, they would be objects of hatred by all nations,became an irrelevant statement.

Ceaser is God's servant in a relative sense. He provides an enviroment in which the proclamation of the word was and is done. For eg Paul used his Roman Citizenship and Roman aminities that he enjoyed to spread the word but was not going to do anything to help the empire politically or in a political way. The Jewish system also provided the early Christians whit the enviroment in which they taught the word but they did not get involved in the political realm nor help the jewish system in a political way. Christians are asked to be obidient to the supirior authorities and to pay back Caesars things to Caesar but also God's things to God. Any involvement or requirment from Caesar that conflicted with the godly requirment of lauding only the approved kingdom of God would be supersceeded by God's command. So would anything that would jeopardise their identifying marks as one brotherhood.

The jews needed a great political leader when Jesus came to earth. He fitted the bill of a person that would rescue them from opperesion that they were suffering but whenever he was presented a chance to take on the mantle of human rulership, he fled from it. Neither he, nor his apostles who had vast super human powers got involved in human rulership nor did anything to alter their political realm even though they could. It was clear to them that human rulership had already been judged and was up for destruction along with anything that associated itself with it.

The facts are clear from the bible

1 The devil is the ruler of the world, human rulership is under his influence and it is to whom he wishes that he gives rulership

2 The precedent of divine justice shows that when something is up for destruction, anything associated with it is up for destruction as well. From babies to beasts.

3 Jesus and the early christians pointed only to one rulership as the solution to mankinds problems. They never promoted any human ruler as one people should support but rather advoided the politics of their day. True christians today should follow the same precedent.


And i don't understand what you mean by compromise is an internal weakness. A legislator voting to go and kill fellow so called christians. Is it by default that he is there? He has put himself in a position no true christian should.

Christiandom is a harlot in that she has neglected the primary commision of lauding the only rulership that Jesus and his apostles taught. She has turned to supporting human rulerships and interests and taking part in wordly affairs. er alligiances and alliances is now to human rulerships since the great apostacy.

The prince of peace is looking at Christiandom with her God dishonouring doctrines and practices and Man honouring robes and activities and is ready to carry out judgement on the unfaithful harlot.

TV 01

i admire your conciliatory tone. I need to adopt it a lil bit. But i cant help but put it out like it is.
Christiandom is so disgusting it makes somebody want to puke. In the midst of smo many God dishonoring doctrines, lies and falsifications, and man glorifying robes they still have the audacity to leave the primary commision given to christians and have turned to mire themselves in wordly politics and laud human govts.

Shameful

Well for the pro Christianity with politics, i have a lil food for thought why separateness from the world and its politics (human rulership handed out by the devil) is a must for true christianity and christians.

1 For those that use Israel as an example, Israel was a chosen nation, a special possesion under a convenant, largely a theocracy and had a mandate and purpose from God. That though ended after the death of Jesus and the law convenant was no longer binding. Which nation today does God wholy support?

2 Who does the politics of the Nations glorify. Does it vindicate the only Goverment of God under his son or are their national intrests their priority? Are the nations pursuing the will of God?

3 During the wars of the nations, for eg 2nd world war, so called christianity (actually a big time harlot) was involved in one of the greatest debacles of its history like it has done since apostacy crept in and still does today. The German Cardinals and their Vatican connection asked the people to pray for Germany because God was with them The German religious leaders blessed the troops and told Hitler that God was with them and asked the citizens to pray for the country. The Italian religious leaders and the Vatican blessed Italian troops and the Facist goverment and told them that God was with them and that the citizens should pray for the country. The Church of England blessed english troops and supported the goverment and asked the people to pray for the country since God was with them. The same story in france, eastern europe and the United States and much of the world.

What was the end result?

Millions of Catholics killing fellow Catholics

Millions of Protestants killing fellow Protestants (Anglicans, Lutherans, Episcopelians etc)

Catholic and Protestant Legislators voting to go to war and Kill fellow Catholics and Protestants

Catholic and Protestant Prime Ministers and Heads of states and Goverments signing of war acts to kill other Catholics and protestants.

The general so called Christians praying to God to help them to kill and finish off enemy countries where millions who profess the same faith live.

Everybody believing that God is with their own country . Hilarious. Pls guyz who was God with in these situations.

What a shame!

What has happened to the hallmarks of true christianity

1 Love among each other.

2 Separateness from the world.

3 Primary comission to preach about the rulership of christ which will destroy present goverments

4 Beign objects of hatred from all these worldly nations (because of non participation in its affairs)

Compare todays so called christianity with true first century christianity and its a sorry sight

Irrespective of if we want to acknowledge it or not, The truth remains that early christians advoided the politics of their day coz worldy politics was and still is incompactible with true christianity. They realised that God's destruction of human rulership (and anything or people associated with it and YES THE HARLOT MASQUERADING TODAY AS CHRISTIANITY) was a certainty.

Polygamy simply means a man nyashing different women.

@Babyosisi.
Maybe sister il help you understand this.

Most men, unless he has real strong religious reasons to leash himself, have that inner desire to sleep with different women. Its not neccesarilly about who he loves. Men dont connect love and sex. That is why men in the past could marry 70 women and be nyashing all of them without even remembering their names.

why do the majority of men feel its neccesary to sleep with different women . Looks like there no cure for that abi

davidylan:

The major problem with England is everyone expects them to play the type of soccer played by the likes of Germany, Brazil, Italy, France e.t.c.
It is IMPOSSIBLE for England to play that way without a major ball player dictating the midfield.

Germany - Michael Ballack
France - Zinedine Zidane
Italy - Andreas Pirlo
Brazil - Kaka
Portugal - Deco

England does not have a player 1 tenth as good as these guys. Watch Lampard who is supposed to play the role of a creative midfielder, not a single assist! All he does is shoot on sight. He gets the ball and does not seek to play any of the forwards into space, rather he makes a short diagonal pass and then runs into the box! He cannot hold the ball and find his team mates with a defence splitting pass.

Yes he scores so many goals at club level but that is because he has great players like Drogba, Essien, Ballack covering for his numerous mistakes!

Gerard is only nominally better. He is no ball player in the mould of all famous midfield maestros. Running around like a headless chicken and striking great shots from distance are not the hallmarks of great midfielders.
The above players do not score soo many goals (Zidane is not known for scoring!) but take them out of any team and such team will struggle! Take Lampard out of Chelsea and life continues as usual.

You are right. England does not have a technically gifted player that can lead the team, what we call a MIDFIELD MASTREO. Other major world teams have that. Maybe England should mould Gerrard to take on the playmaker role. He is better than lampard.

people are willingly enslaving themselves to false teachings.

Y'all should keep giving those theives your money in the name of tithe. Y'all want insurance huh, like ur money will buy it.

Stop beign slaves to thieves.

There is no point. So shall we say

nferyn wait till God comes down and has a face to face talk with you b/4 u believe he exists . It might be a one sided meeting then.

You have all the evidence you need. When you get that additional one you are looking for, it would be way too late.

At times i wonder when you think of something like the ozone layer that was designed to shield humans from harmful sun rays, one wonders how a bigbang and evolution could have placed it there.

Atheism is empty

@nferyn
.

Ur mind is made up already. I wanted to give you those for a start but its obviously of no use.

But in tackling the points that i raised you said Cyrus was a common name, but my question would be how many persian king Cyruses ordered the return of the jews from exile and the rebuilding of the temple?

There was only one and it was forcasted with accuracy.

The prophesy of Jeremiah could not have been written in the first century AD so funny as it is that you you now try to clutch at straws to say the prophesy is random . The destruction of many cities were foretold in the bible but only a few cities were spoken off as never to be rebuilt forever and ever. Edom is a good example.

The shape of the earth was guessed by the chinese and others but was not common knowledge in Europe. The bible description of the shape of the clashed with common view of what the earth as flat but was not stated as a probability. the bible stated it as a fact.


Besides what makes you thin that Noah's flood is a myth and the earth cannot be repopulated in a period of 4000 to 5000 years?

People should stop beign enslaved to designes men have made to exploit them of their hard earned living. Tithe ko, tithe ni.

Left for me all these tithe preaching pastors(thieves) should be in jail cooling of their heels. Harsh i know, but so is exploiting the faith and vunurability of the poor

stimulus:

@sage,

While we are waiting for your own biggest lie of the century, don't forget to include John 1:1 in your 'tackle'.

John 1:1 original rendering cannot contradict the rest of the bible. That would make the bible a false document. But the good news is that it does not. Il be back.

smile4kenn:

JESUS IS 100% EQUAL WITH GOD The FATHER

Jesus came to earth as man and through the Virgin of virgins so that we will see him as complete man. He prayed to God as man and did everything as man so we can do same thing. He called God his father just like we do christain do today saying i am a child of God. Yes just same thing.

Trinity explains that God the Father, Jesus, Son of God, and Holy spirit is 100% equal because they make up GOd almighty.

I have studied the Trinity for so many years and i so much believe in the Trinity.

Guy stop putting falsehood in Bold letters. That you believe something somebody told you does not make i true neither does it give it a biblical basis. If i get the time, il tackle this issue.

The doctrine of trinity is the biggest lie of all times.

Ok Nferyn

Im back.

Evidences of biblical inspiration

1 Isa 44:24,27,28 and 45:1-4 specifically named Cyrus as the Medo Persian leader that would liberate Isreal from Babylonian bondage. It describes exactly how that will be achieved, diversion of the waters and the gates being left open. This was written over 200years in advance. Isaiah lived in the 8th century BC and he clearly forecasted the future with accuracy, even giving specific names over 200 yrs in advance. Isaiah lived in Judea under Assyrian domination and Cyrus was no where near beign born at that time and and the Judean kingdom was still free and not under Babylonian captivity yet.

2 Jer 49:17,18 foretold about the eternal annihilation of Edom in the 6th century BC. At that point Edom was still an existent kingdom. Edom seized to exist at around the 1st century BC and was obliterated in the first century AD, over 700yrs after the prophecy. This is one prophecy you and I are still seeing the fufilment. Edom has never been rebuilt till today.

3 Jesus accurately prophesied the destruction of Jeruselem by Roman armies. He instructed his followers to flee Jeruselem whenever it becomes besieged by Roman Armies. It seemed like an impossible task but when Roman armies besieged Jeruselem, after a while they just pulled back for no reason, allowing Jesus followers to act on his instructions. The Romans returned under General Titus and destroyed Jeruselem.

4 The shape of the planet earth.
Isa 40:22 refers accurately to the shape of the earth. It shows that earth was spherical, ages before the telescope and other human inventions confirmed the shape of the earth. In another verse it refers to the suspension of the earth by saying the God hangs the earth upon nothing (N/B the teaching that the earth was flat and had literal support from some sea creatures was a false church teaching, like many false doctrines that the church still parades to day that had no basis from the bible). Now that screams inspiration

5 Lev 11:6 refers to Hares (Rabbits) as cud chewers. Critics attacked this bible passage as false until the 18th century when it was finally observed that the Rabbit did indeed chew cud.

6 Daniel Chapter 8:20-22 prophesied about Alexander the Great and how he would defeat Persia and how he his kingdom would be divided into four. This was 200 to 300 yrs in advance.

7 The bible was written over a period of 1,600 yrs by men from all different works of life who had never met each other yet it shows harmony right to smallest of details. It was not like they collaborated to write it


Well let us take these for a start. I expect this to be unbelievable to an atheist so i expect you to start clutching at straws in order to sustain the self delusionary thought that mankind and the orderly planet(albeit one now desecrated by mankind) appeared from nowhere by chance.

Nferyn i am waiting . The last time i asked to you show me one thing in the bible that science has proven wrong or false i did not hear from you again

Hey Nferyn

Why i said you should get acquinted with those dates is because those prophesies were made, written and completed in advance and hundreds of years before. I know you would want to discredit the bible even in the face of truth.

For example, do you know when Jeruselem was destroyed by Babylonians and when Cyrus ruled in Medo-Persia and When the Bible book of Isiah was written and Completed?

I have many examples of bible prophecy that got fufilled hundreds of years after it was written. I know in a bid to discredit the truth you will start to argue that the only explanation would be that those bible passages must have been written hundreds of years after they were actually completed coz you just wont believe that it happened just as it was prophesied.
But guess what? it did coz the prophesies were inspired

nferyn:

I could start with ripping apart the creation myth of Genesis and the idiocy of Noah's global flood if you indulge me, but then before I start, I would like to know whether or not you're willing to listen.

But, just in case you're not reading the Bible literally, what do you consider inspiration and truthfulness?
Different authors well versed in the practice of midrash
Midrash anyone?
Maybe you could give a specific example of fulfilled prophecy that isn't so incredibly vague that it could mean anything?
We first need to establish the value of these prophecies, before we can begin attributing it to God
Please read up on midrash, you'll understand that the prophecies foretold in the Torah concerning Jesus were a very common way of establishing authority within the Jewish community.
Begging the question, are we not? Foregive me that I won't take your word for it.

Nferyn

Many prophesies in the bible were foretold and written way b/4 it happened and it fulfilled.

This aint no joke. It screams inspiration.

Il come back and post some for you.

In the meantime get as much of accurate dates of the bible as you can. I want you to get to know the dates in which the bible books were written. Do all research neccesary. I don't want you to start arguing dates in a desperate bid to discredit clear prophesies that were fulfilled clearly hundreds of years after they were written.

If you do just that You are in for a surprise and a big one a that

And its no mystery.

Jesus is God's Son, subject to his father who is the Almighty.

John 1:1 cannot contradict the rest of the bible.

Ive gone through this numerous times. If the bible contradicts itself then it renders itself a conflicting and useless text.

But since the bible does not contradict itself, John 1:1 original rendering cannot contradict the rest of the bible

The trinity is the biggest fraud ever perpertrated by the Church. Its a lie that slanders God right to his face. A fourth century doctrine incoperated into the Church at the council the pagan emperor Constantine arrainged.

Seems like Jesus found it too much of work to simply tell his followers that he was God rather than decieve them by saying somebody was above him and acting up like he was doing somebody elses will.

This doctrine is the biggest lie on earth.

Ask me and il give you a million scriptures. The bible is clear on this. Very very clear.
I have some interesting material on it.

Funny how the doctrine f eternal torment was shown as having no bases in the bible and all the pro eternal torment brigade disappeared .

I guess they got tired of saying that Rev 20:8 = Hellfire and seeing that it cant conflict and contradict the rest of the bible

TV01:

Ah, Donnie the Scribe, meet Backslider the Pharisee .

One doesn't drink 'because he's holier than thou, the other because it's perdition in a bottle .

Donnie in his wisdom came up with this

The Bible does not condemn drinking, but it warns strongly against drinking to excess (a distinction that our resident zealots do not seem t be able to make ). The Bible does not mention smoking at all. And smoking and drinking are not in any way the same.

Not to be outdone, Bro' Backslider came up with this;

Christian have liberty in Christ. If you can't deal with it, leave it. Don't try and legislate for everyone else or condenm those who believe differently.

Romans 14:3 - Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.

Sis' Agnesoseka summed it up quite succinctly.

But the wearers of broad phylacteries and the makers of long repetitive prayers (who suppose themselves to be spiritual titans, but are just religious pygmies) have to have the final [s]overblown essay ful of great swelling words[/s] say!

My advice is as follows;

1 Corinthians 7:23 - You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.

Sorry, that wasn't my advice that was 1 Corinthians 7:23. My advice is shove off you two !

I completely agree with you.

@TV01 my brother, is it not a shame what so called christianity has resulted into? Rather than warning people about God's plan for the destruction of human rulership, the main theme of the bible, the harlot closes its eye to the main message of the bible and spend all there time confusing their members with self righteous and baseless inclinations aka ribena=wine .

I guess when you ignore what you should be doing you end up in frivolities like arguing that wine is now Ribena. Thats hilarious.

This self righteous attitude was the same reason why Jesus rejected the scribes and the Pharisees.

Why, they even accused Jesus of beign a sinner who was taking wine in excess .
Jesus kicked their asses out.

People should realise that no amount of self rigteousness is going to take them anywhere.


N?B Jesus drank alcoholic wine, all his apostles did the same. The bible has nothing against alcohol in moderation.

Alcohol, like food should be in moderation.

But if you are a slave of man, u can keep on with traditions of men as doctrine. . Seems like enslavement to selfrighteous doctrines that has no biblical bases suits many people. Make una carry go

Pirlo and Kaka are the best.

Forza Milan

c0dec:

it's just a fact of life that inter sucks. they are just cursed.
you sage, no excuses for you. milan have had a terrible season not withstanding. we'll so own you guys next season. i can't wait!

FORZA JUVE!

Yeah right. Keep dreaming .

Meanwhile, howz Seria B or is it C ?