Atleast 85% of Africans are either Muslims or Christians. Who then can kick these religions out of Africa? The 15% 'others'?

macof:

Mr man, I can publish a book and say it's by God, its the pure word of God and whosoever disbelief shall bare the consequence. I can go around preaching give ur life to Olodumare, let's all dafa for Orunmila to guide us through the will of Olodumare.

I can start killing people who defile me and say my God sent me, I can use my juju(advanced science) to perform wat many would call miracles. I can call myself the last prophet of God. I can walk on water and make people walk with me and tell them that God is doing this, just have faith.

I can hide in a cave and come out after 3 days and claim I was being bathed with spiritual knowledge. I can use Ifa to give prophecies.

The problem is that African pagans don't do that, we are sincere and know the truth, tell those who wish to listen and walk away when they reject the truth, it is ur soul that parishes for it cannot develop on lies.


The Koran cannot be more reliable than wat professional religious historians have digged up. The facts are there, the Koran can also be used to drive this facts. A men wrote the Koran, men wrote wat I sent to u- Key word= MEN
u have no proof to discard them except the Koran, whereas they have proof to discard u with the Koran

We do not only have the Quran. We also have our history. The articles you brought are works of people who are opposed to Islam or religion as a whole. Why should you learn Islam from them, not from it's authentic sources? It's just like you, for example, asking PDP about APC. Or ask even nPDP about PDP. Justice demands that you listen to both sides before passing judgment. But you won't do that. You just want to criticize. You are not interested in listening to the other side. Just because some people write a book and call it 'history', that does not make it a law that must be accepted by all. There are different kinds of historians - secular, jewish, christian, muslim etc. Why do we find differences in their accounts? Obviously some people are biased. Therefore you should bring your account, i bring mine then we discuss about it. That is why we are here. But don't just go and bring the works of some anonymous people and think you are proving anything, and if i don't agree with them you get angry at me. You may borrow their some of their claims which you agree with and bring them for us to discuss. And i will be willing to respond. But don't bring whole articles written by others and think you are proving anything. If i am looking for anti-islamic writings i know where to get hundreds of them.

macof:
the Koran is NO proof at all. Anybody can write and print whatever they like and compile them as holy books

The Quran is the only scripture that makes the following claims:
- It is the direct, verbatim Word of God (6:104; 25:6; etc.)
- It is protected by God from any tampering or interpolation (15:9; 41:42);
- If anyone doubts the Quran is from God, they should produce a work comparable to it (2:23; 11:13; 17:88)
and the Quran:
- contains numerous scientific miracles, none of which contradicts established science.
- is the only Book religious or secular that has been entirely memorized my millions of people around the world.
- is the only Book which has never been revised or changed since it was first compiled fourteen hundred years ago. Since then, millions (if not billions) of identical copies were made.
The Quran was revealed by God to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) from 610 to 632 CE. The first people to whom the Prophet conveyed the message of the Quran were masters of the Arabic language. The Quran challenged its detractors to produce a book like it if they thought the Quran was not from God Almighty (17:88). Later, the challenge was reduced to only 10 chapters (11:13). Finally the Quran’s challenge was to compose a single chapter of equal merit (2:23). The challenge was never met and continues to stand to this day!
"This Quran is not such as can be produced by other than God; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book- wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds." 10:37
The eloquence and beauty of the Quran, the clarity of its discourse, the power of its message were unsurpassed. In fact, the Quran was the first book in the Arabic language and remains to this day the foundational source of its grammar and morphology.
How then can any sane human being compare this unique Book with the garbage some people post on the Internet

@Folykaze, i know you are just a confused guy. You were a christian, then you claim to join islam, then atheism and now to so called african paganism. So you don't know what is good/bad for you. You just keep changing religions, only God knows what you will become tomorrow. Should i then be suprised by what wrote?

FOLYKAZE:
And I am dealing with quran, pls take your Haddit elsewhere.

And why did you ignore this verse. Say, "What thing is greatest as a testimony?" Say, "Allah is witness between me and you. This Qur'an was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby AND WHOMEVER IT REACHES." You see you can choose to take whatever you like and ignore explicit texts. But just know that you cannot prove your claims from the Quran. And stop associating me with "Taqiyya" pls, it belongs to the followers of Shi'ism and I'm not of them..

Sorry friends, I've been away for a while.

macof:
Orunmila was created by Olodumare nt by any man. do u think men are so foolish to the extent of worshipping their own creations?

LOL. Atleast you did admit "Orunmila was created by Olodumare" It doesn't matter who/what created Orunmila. In as much as your god is a created entity like you, it doesn't deserve anyone's worship.
[/quote]

macof:
1. my ancestors never bothered about the shape of the earth, I have never come across any yoruba phylosophy about the shape of the earth, All they told is that the dry lands of earth started from one place. The koran however says the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the earth, resting in a spring water every nightso going by ur the first bolded the koran might be wrong about God if it cant even understand the earth and the sun.

Bring up the verses of the Quran.

macof:
@ubl6 I went through the web to get this links for u to read carefully http://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Sin_(mythology) http://oracc.museum.upenn .edu/amgg/listofdeities /nannasuen/ http://www.alphanewsd aily.com/Islam's%20Allah-TheMoonGod.html http://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Allah_as_Moon-g od http://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Assyrian_religion http://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Abraham http://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Ur_of_the_Chalde es http://history.stackexc hange.com/questions /686/what-was-the- religion-of-the- arabic-people-before- conversion-to-islam
I practically copied all the sites I saw. I am in such a hurry

All these are no proofs at all. Anybody can write and post whatever they like in the web pages including Wikipedia.

FOLYKAZE:
Quran 6:92
Sahih International
And this is a Book which We have sent down, blessed and confirming what was before it, that you may warn the Mother of Cities and those around it. Those who believe in the Hereafter believe in it, and they are maintaining their prayers.(The mother of towns, Umul Qura, is Mecca.)
42:7
Sahih International
And thus We have revealed to you an Arabic Qur'an that you may warn the Mother of Cities ]Makkah[ and those around it and warn of the Day of Assembly, about which there is no doubt. A party will be in Paradise and a party in the Blaze.

Both the verses 6:92 and 42:7 say "Mother of cities and those around it" not those "near" it!
Those around it means the full world. Mecca is the centre of the world, thus all of world's cities are around Mecca. It refer to all people as we could see the Qur'an telling us in context elsewhere:
Surah 6:19
Say, "What thing is greatest as a testimony?" Say, "Allah is witness between me and you. This Qur'an was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby AND WHOMEVER IT REACHES. Do you [trully] testify with Allah there are other deities?" Say, "I will not testify [with you].' Say, "Indeed He is but one God, and indeed, I am free of what you associate [with Him]."
Surah 25:1
Blessed is He who has sent down the Criterion upon upon His servant that he may be TO THE WORLDS a warner.
Surah 21:107
And We have not sent you [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.

FOLYKAZE:
[b]• Islam: Quran 10:47
And for every people there is a Messenger.
Quran 16:36
And WE did raise among every people a Messenger

Indeed both of these verses say in the past Allah did send Messengers to every people. But with the coming of Islam all other religions have been abrogated:
And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will among the losers. 3:85

FOLYKAZE:
Quran 14:4
And WE have not sent any Messenger except with revelation in the language of his people in order that he might make things clear to them.

This verse does not restrict Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to only be a guide to Arabic speaking people. What this verse establishes is the fact that when Messengers came to their respective people they came to them speaking in their language so that they could understand them. Prophets of God did not fall down to earth from space but were chosen or raised as prophets from within their community or nations (of course Adam was an exception). The nation from whom they were raised spoke a particular language. Not so surprisingly then, this is the language the prophets used to communicate to them the message of God, otherwise they would not understand the message. History testifies that the Prophet (peace be upon him) sent Qur'anic verses in Arabic with translations/translators warning the non-Arab Emperor Heraclius, Chosroes II, Negus etc. Furthermore, if non-Arabs weren't allowed to accept Islam then why was Salman the Persian allowed to do so with no objections from the Prophet (peace be upon him)? The same goes for the Ethiopian Bilal ibn Rabah who was held in high honor for being the first muezzin (announcing the call to prayer from the mosque) personally selected by the Prophet (peace be upon him). If Islam wasn't meant for non-Arabs as well then why did the Prophet (peace be upon him) say "There is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab over an Arab. except in piety"(Musnad Ahmad, Hadith no. 22391) Notice that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said that race isn't a sign of superiority, rather what makes one superior to the other is piety. This shows that piety is accessible to non-Arabs through Islam. This indicates that Islam has a universal message. This is something that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has made very clear in another Hadith:
Saheeh Bukhari
Volume 1, Book 7, Number 331:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
The Prophet said, "I have been given five things which were not given to any one else before me.
1. Allah made me victorious by awe, (by His frightening my enemies) for a distance of one month's journey.
2. The earth has been made for me (and for my followers) a place for praying and a thing to perform Tayammum, therefore anyone of my followers can pray wherever the time of a prayer is due.
3. The booty has been made Halal (lawful) for me yet it was not lawful for anyone else before me.
4. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection).
5. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation only but I have been sent to all mankind.

macof:

Why do u believe so much in Arab spirituality? Ain't u a Nigerian? why can't u embrace ur ancestors view of the almighty God?
Allah is for the universe, true but in Arab mentality. Why can't u embrace the almighty God as ur ancestors portray him?


All ur posts are just in Mohammed, Arabian and Allah's defense. Why can't u defend ur Own prophets, Ur own people and praise ur own God?

[When it is said to them: "Come to what Allah hath revealed; come to the Messenger": They say: "Enough for us are the ways we found our fathers following." what! even though their fathers were void of knowledge and guidance?] Quran 5:104
Islam is not an "arab spirituality" because even the prophet himself did not inherit the religion from his father. As for me, Alhamdulillah, all of my known ancestors were Muslims. So even if i *must* follow the footsteps of my ancestors, i would still be Muslim. But i think that we should not follow our ancestors blindly since they could be wrong. Your ancestors believed the Earth was flat, do you still agree with them on this one? If they could be wrong on this, why don't you think they might also be wrong in their understanding of God? Everyone should find out the truth for himself. Although i was born a Muslim, this does not stop me from studying other religions/philosophies and comparing them with Islam. Of all the different opinions out there about God, whether it is Atheism, Hinduism, Paganism, Judaism, Christianity or Islam etc only one of them can be correct. There can only be one Truth. So, whether you are born a Pagan, an Atheist, a Hindu, a Christian, or a Muslim you should always be open for dialogue and be sure you can intellectually defend whatever you believe in. My problem with pagans is they do have a very localized view of the world. They seem to think that every Tribe is completely independent of the other and should have it's own separate God(s). Do you people agree we all share the same Creator? Or do you think each Tribe was created by a different God? Or were mankind not created?

macof:

God didn't call himself any name, stop being a dumb retard. Allah is the name given to him by Arabs.
I have said before that Allah existed before Islam, he was already being worshipped by Abraham(Sin was probably the name Abraham knew him as), Mohamed's family, and other Arabs and neighbors(with exception to the territory of Canaan). Islam doesn't save anyone because before Islam people already worshipped Allah as a pagan deity. Mohammed just created a new religion where only Allah existed because he had been influenced by the Jews(judaism, the first monotheist religion and break away from paganism). Mohammed could have converted to Judaism, however he remained in the worship of his ancestors(only making a few changes, there by creating a new religion)

Islam is still Arab, it's all about Arabia, tho the Koran states some non-Arab prophets, it only does that due to Mohammed's Jewish inspiration.

This is all rubbish. You keep repeating the same lies again and again.

macof:
For example. Let's say Macof(a pagan) who's patron deity is Orunmila, decides to create a religion where only Orunmila exist and preaches to non-Yoruba to summit to the will of Orunmila. In this context, only Yoruba people are suppose to take me seriously because they know Orunmila.

This is because your Orunmila is a Tribal god, an idol. Your created him yourself. Therefore he can never be our Creator.

macof:
However it's mental slavery or inferiority complex for non-Yoruba to worship Orunmila when they probably have his equivalent.

Even, if i am yoruba i will not take you seriously. I will not worship your Orunmila because it is just a dead idol you created with your own hands and call it god. How can any sane human being worship an object created by man as his God?

PAGAN 9JA:

IT is all a farce.
Over the times, the Ka'aba has assumed the sanctity of an idol. You believe Allah resides in the Ka'aba.

I did not say that pls. As i said in my previous post Allah does not reside in the ka'aba. He is above the seven Havens far far away from all of His creations.This is what the muslims believe. From where did you get this myth that the muslims ‘believe Allah resides in the Ka'aba’

PAGAN 9JA:

It is Bayt Allah (The Gods House).

This also does not mean Allah is inside. Ka'aba and all other mosques are called house(s) of Allah simply because muslims worship Him in these places. It does not in any way means Allah *resides* in any of those mosques! You are making me to repeat myself. No muslims ever says this rubbish. How can Almighty God reside in that box You think Allah is like those dead objects you worship

PAGAN 9JA:

In the past it was Bayt Ilahah (The House of the Gods).

It was built by Abraham and Ismail who were no pagans. The pagans indeed filled it with their idols many centuries after Isma'il when they turned to idolatory. But all the idols were later destroyed by the prophet. If you still think there are idols inside ka'aba, i can send you a video to see its inside.

PAGAN 9JA:

The early converts were forcefully converted after the defeat of the Quraysh a the Battle of Al-Khandaq. They probably knew that even though the idols were destroyed, the Spirit/the Gods were not and they were in and represented by the Holy Ka'abah itself.
Therefore the safest thing to do then was accept islam rathar than die or get evicted or pay jazya.
muhammad probably entered into a truce with the defeated QUraysh, thereby shifting worship back to the Ka'aba as was done before and it suited everyone.

You are trying very hard to prove islam = paganism. Were the pagan arabs converted from paganism to paganism It's obvious the pagans knew Islam is very well Islam is quite unlike their religion and cannot be compatible with it, that was why they had to fought the prophet in several battles in order to stop him.

PAGAN 9JA:
Bowing to the Ka'aba, kissing it, touching its hem, etc., and all this physical devotion is nothing but idolatory. What was once a shrine and a namesake compass pointer has become a large idol in itself.

I told you we are not bowing to ka'aba, it is only a Qibla (direction). So that atleast all of world's muslims will face the same direction in prayer for unity sake. We do not believe the ka'aba, black stone or any of these objects can benefit or harm us. An idol worshipper who worships stone for example believes that such a stone can bring him some benefit. This is what is called idolatory. In Islam seeking favours or blessings from dead objects like stone or ka'aba is strictly forbidden. Not only dead dead objects, praying to prophet Muhammad or any other person other than God is called Shirk. Which is the only unpardonable sin when one dies without repenting.

FOLYKAZE:
What is the name of your God?

Well, you may call Him with any name, defending on the language you speak. But, for me I will *prefer* to call Him with the name(s) he called Himself in the Quran. Now, does this mean I am an "Arab slave"?! I will answer this question.

nnofaith: true! he only resides in the kaaba, i mean he has to live somewhere!

Allah does not reside in the ka'aba. He is above the seven Havens far far away from all of His creations. Ka'aba and all other mosques are called house(s) of Allah simply because muslims worship Him in these places. It does not in any way means Allah *resides* in any of those mosques! Do you understand

macof: true Allah in pre-islamic arabia was a god for the whole universe. whoever non-arabs have a different view of Allah and also different names like Olodumare, Chineke, Odin, Amun-Ra, Uranus, El, Yahweh, Brahma, etc.
if u say Allah is the true God beacuse thats how the arabs think of it, it means u are an arab slave

No sir, I'm not. Does the fact that Allah sent an arab man and the Quran in Arabic means the Arabs are God's "chosen people"? Or that they are superior to other races? Not at all. The Quran mentions many non-arab prophets and as muslims we all believe in them: “We have sent thee (O Muhammad) inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms. 4:163” No where does Quran called the Arabs God's "chosen people". Many of the arabs (including some of Muhammad's closest relatives) would go to Hell for not believing in the Message he brought. Like i said earlier, Islam is not a tribal religion (like Judaism). Even Christianity was supposed to be an exclusive *Jewish affair* as the Bible says: ‘these twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them saying GO NOT into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans ENTER YE NOT. ‘But go ye rather unto the lost sheep of THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL’’ Mat10:5-6. Jesus also said ‘I am NOT SENT but unto the lost sheep of the HOUSE OF ISRAEL’ Mat.15:24. It was only only after Jesus had departed that his supposed followers decided to preach ‘his Gospel’ to the Gentiles. But Islam is not like that, it is a Universal Religion. Muhammad (pbuh) being God's last Messenger was sent for all of us: ‘We sent thee not (O Muhammad), but as a mercy for all creatures’ 21:107. Unlike Jesus, who never preached the Gospel to the Gentiles of his day, among prophet Muhammad's companions there were many non-arabs including blacks e.g Bilal, the prophet mosque's caller to prayer, who was an african (from Ethiopia). Now some african pagan or atheist may ask: ‘why didn't Allah send his last prophet from the Hausas or Yorubas or Igbos?’ Had God decided to send a Yoruba man, I am sure some Igbos will reject him and begin to refer to their Igbo brothers who accept him as ‘slaves of yoruba!’. The Quran says: ‘Allah is full of bounty to mankind, but Most of them are ungrateful’ (2:243). There is no racism in Islam. We are all equal before God as the Quran declares:
‘O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)’. 49:13
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) also stated this, among other things in his last sermon:
“All mankind is from Adam and Eve. An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab, nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; white has no superiority over black, nor does a black have any superiority over white; [none have superiority over another] except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood.”

deols:
the Prophet's (sa) father was no pagan.he was a HANIF (literally "monotheist" who followed the religion of Abraham).moreover there is a hadith from the Prophet (sa) that states that from Adam (as),he (sa) never (in respect of ancestry) was in the loins of a polytheist/idolater or zani (adulterer).

Sis deols, pls read this link:
http://www.islamqa.com/en/43045

onetrack:

This all man-made. Just like the Bible. The main goal was to scare people into obeying these people who wrote the Quran.

Those verses and similar ones can indeed serve as a warning but cannot force people to believe the Quran. For me (and I'm sure millions of other muslims) we didn't just believe for fear of punishment. We believe because we are fully convinced the Quran is the truth from our Lord. If you don't agree with me on this, it's very easy to test. Do the following exercise:
*Claim to be a prophet from God
*Write your own book and say you receive it from God
*In your “Word of God” write that, God says Muhammad lied against Him. He was a false prophet, therefore God is commanding the muslims to come and accept His message given to you.
*Make sure in your “Word of God” you threaten us with WORSE punishment than the one mentioned in the Quran if we don't believe you.
*Do this exercise and see if the Muslim Ummah will throw away the Quran and follow you for “fear of punishment”
That can never be possible! We will only expose you as a false prophet, for it's not difficult to distinguish the true prophets from the false ones. So you see mere written threats of punishment in any book cannot force people to believe in it. Most of us believe because we are convinced with the available evidences. The Quran itself declares:
لَا إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ ۖ قَدْ تَبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ ۚ
‘Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error’ 2:256
So, if you sincerely think you are not convinced with the available evidences for God or any religion, you can choose to disbelieve (as you already did). This is why you have free will. You can do whatever you like with your life, it isn't everyone's cup of tea. But do not see us, who believe, as brainwashed fools. Many of us are more educated, more scientific and more rational than you can ever be.

macof: any Arab who worships Allah is technically a pagan.
his parents worshipped Allah, and so did he.
The thing is mohammed created a new religion where only Allah existed

Keep on lying, most xtians are like this.

onetrack:

Did some evil psychopathic god get angry and do something horrible to them?

Al-Quran 83:10-17
10. Woe, that Day, to those that deny-
11. Those that deny the Day of Judgment.
12. And none can deny it but the transgressor beyond bounds, the sinner!
13. When Our verses are rehearsed to him, he says, “Tales of the ancients!”
14. By no means! but on their hearts is the stain of the (ill) which they do!
15. Verily, from (the Light of) their Lord, that Day, will they be veiled.
16. Further, they will enter the Fire of Hell.
17. Further, it will be said to them: “This is the (reality) which ye rejected as false!”

aManFromMars:
Before he met Angel Gabriel, he held no previous religious beliefs?

The Makkans claimed descent from Abraham through Isma`il and tradition stated that their temple, the Ka`bah, had been built by Abraham and Isma'il for the worship of the One God. It was still called the House of Allah then. They inherited monotheism from their ancestor Isma'il but many centuries later most of them turned to idolatory although still beliving in Allah as their Creator. They filled the Ka'aba with about 360 idols which they believed were their intercessors to Allah. All the idols were later destroyed by the prophet when he seized Makkah from the pagans' control. However even before the prophet's mission began, there were a few of the Arabs who felt disgust at this idolatry, which had prevailed for centuries, longed for the religion of Abraham and tried to find out what had been its teaching. Such seekers of the truth were known as Hunafa (sing. Hanif), a word originally meaning “those who turn away” (from the existing idol-worship), but coming in the end to have the sense of “upright” or “by nature upright,” because such persons held the way of truth to be right conduct. These Hunafa did not form a community. They were the non-conformists of their day, each seeking truth by the light of his inner consciousness. Muhammad son of Abdullah became one of these. Many years before his mission began, the prophet often used to isolate himself to a cave outside Makkah to meditate. It was in one of these seclusions that archangel Gabrail first appeared to him.

macof: HE was a pagan. His family's God was Allah.
when he got influenced by the jews, he simply created a religion where only Allah existed.

He first met Jews in Medina when he migrated. That was 13yrs after the revelation of the Quran began in Mecca.

mazaje:

The prophet of islam was not a muslim at birth but a pagan. . .His parents were not muslims, they died as non muslims according to the hadiths. . .

His parents died as non-muslim. But the prophet himself has never been a pagan.

onetrack: If the Bible and Quran are the word of god then I for one am not impressed. I have many books on my shelf that are more concise, more consistent, better organized, better expressed and with fewer contradictions and errors than the aforementioned 'holy books'.

In his now-lost book "The Prophets' Fraudulent Tricks", one of my Persian heroes, doctor Muhammad al-Razi (854-925 AD) said, regarding the Quran (but could apply to the Bible as well):

"You claim that the evidentiary miracle is present and available, namely, the Quran. You say: "Whoever denies it, let him produce a similar one." Indeed, we shall produce a thousand similar, from the works of rhetoricians, eloquent speakers and valiant poets, which are more appropriately phrased and state the issues more succinctly. They convey the meaning better and their rhymed prose is in better meter. … By God what you say astonishes us! You are talking about a work which recounts ancient myths, and which at the same time is full of contradictions and does not contain any useful information or explanation. Then you say: "Produce something like it"‽

And the Arab philosopher Abul al-Ma'arri (973-1058) wrote:

"Do not suppose the statements of the prophets to be true; they are all fabrications. Men lived comfortably till they came and spoiled life. The sacred books are only such a set of idle tales as any age could have and indeed did actually produce."

I would love to have met these guys.

If you can only know the condition they found themselves after their deaths, you will never wish to be with them.

basilico: Liar liar masjid al aqsa means furthest mosque. When your prophet rode the mythical horse to al aqsa the furthest mosque was only a few miles away. Not 900 miles where the ruins of the Jewish temple stood then. Al aqsa is not at the Temple mount and has never been. Muslims always took over other religious sites and claimed them as their own. Eg Cordoba in spain, haga sofia in turkey and even indian temples. Prove me wrong.

You didn't really say any serious thing. Your post is not worth responding to.

ghostofsparta:

fairy tales^
btw are you an arab or an African?

My God is not a tribal God.

God gave His revelations to mankind througout history. But the most popular of them are:
1. The Torah given to Moses, 2. The Gospel given to Jesus and 3. The Quran given to Muhammad. 1&2 are no longer available in their original forms, either they are completely lost or tempered with by man to the extent that the scriptures have turned into a mixture of truth and falsehood. This is why God in His infinite Mercy sent the Quran, the 'Final Testament' to confirm the truth contained in the previous revelations and to abrogate them. Some people wrongly claim that the Quran is copied from the Bible because of their similarities. This is either ignorance or deliberate misrepresentation of facts, because the similarities are simply due to the fact that all of them came from the same source - Almighty God. The funny thing is even atheists who are quick to criticize christians have agreed with the christians' claim, that the Quran was copied from the Bible! There was no way prophet Muhammad could have copy the Bible. He was illiterate, he never read any Book before he was taught the Quran by Archangel Gabrail. There was no even any Arabic version of the Bible during his lifetime and he only spoke Arabic. The Jews and Christians of his time did not accuse him of copying their scriptures because they knew he could not do it. They always came to debate with him, asking him questions which they felt nobody can answer except a prophet of God. And he all answered them correctly, through this many of them converted to Islam. God did not reveal any other Book after the Quran. Anybody that claims he receives one is a liar.

In Islam, the Quran tells us that: “Do they not then consider the Quran carefully? Had it been from other than God, they would surely have found therein much contradictions” 4:82
In other words God told us, this is an ‘acid test’ — a criteria for testing any Book that claims to be ‘His Words’. That Book must not be contradictory. It must be consistent in itself and cannot contain any errors or mistakes. For God is perfect, therefore His perfection must reflect in ‘His Book’. That Judas example sighted by the OP above is just one of the hundreds of contradictions in the ‘Holy Bible’!. Pls mods don't hide my comment because we are in a Democratic era o. Lol

peterphd:
2. The scriptures were man-made, and therefore
useless for predicting anything about anyone.

That is actually what happened. Jesus was indeed the promised Messiah (a prophet) for the Jews but the Torah had since been corrupted before him. The Jewish Bible itself testified to being distorted even before Jesus came:
Yirmeyah 8:8
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
8 How can ye say, We are chachamim (wise ones), and the torat Hashem is with us, when, hinei, the et sheker (deceiving pen) of the sofrim (scribes) has made it [the torat Hashem] into sheker (a falsehood,i.e., falsely authoritative scribal interpretation has twisted Scripture, perverting its truth; see also Jer 2:8; 2K3:16; here is a warning against false teachers, and it is important because the scribal group in Israel would become the rabbinic group in time to come, and here their doctrines are coming into direct opposition to the Torah and the inerrant prophecies of Jeremiah.)
The christians’ version of the above verse also confirmed the corruption of the Jewish scriptures:
Jeremiah 8:8
Revised Standard Version (RSV)
“How can you say, ‘We are wise,
and the law of the Lord is with us’?
But behold, the false pen of the scribes
has made it into a lie.

On why the Jews would want to kill Jesus, i think this has to do with the fact that, the Jews were not ready to accept the reforms he brought for them, in his attempt to return them to the pure words of God, as he reportedly accused them of transgressing the commandment of God because of their traditions.: Matthew 15:3, Mark 7:9, 7:13 etc. It seems the scribes and pharisees knew that Jesus was real but rejected him perhaps for being too critical of them. And then they justified their disbelief in him with their distorted prophesies which they claimed he didn't fulfil. Another thing that should not be overlooked is the fact that all the narrations about Jesus and what actually happened between him, the pharisees, his disciples and the crowds etc were written by the church many years after Jesus had departed. So everything you see in the NT is what the church wanted you to see. We cannot really know what actually happened because the NT is unreliable.

PAGAN 9JA:
I want to test the extent you jesus-worshippers/Ka'aba Worshippers lie to.


Please write down your definition of Idolatory as practiced by Tribal Religion.

First, Muslims are not ‘Ka'aba Worshippers’! We worship the only One True God, the Creator of the Universe called ‘Allah’ in Arabic. Ka'aba is just a ‘Qibla’ — a direction which all muslims face while observing their prayers. Masjid al-Haram (‘the sacred mosque’ aka ka'aba) is just a Masjid (mosque) like all other Masajid (mosques) globally though the most important of them, being the ‘first house (of worship) appointed for mankind’ -[Sura 3:96.] So ka'aba IS NOT AN IDOL but a mosque! Infact during the early days of prophet Muhammad's mission, Muslims used to face Masjid al Aqsa (‘the farthest mosque’ in Jerusalem) during their prayers. This continued until when a revelation came asking the prophet to turn his face towards the sacred mosque in Makkah:
“We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens: now shall We turn thee to a Qiblah that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction...” [Sura 2:144]. The al Aqsa mosque (in Jerusalem) to this day remains the third holiest site in Islam. First one is Masjid al Haram (the Sacred Mosque) in Makkah City and the second one is Masjid an Nabawi (the Prophet’s Mosque) in Madinah City, in Saudi Arabia.
Secondly, in Islam idolatory means worshipping anyone/anything in addition to or other than Allah. Whatever is worshipped whether it be Angels, prophets (e.g Jesus or Muhammad) or saints or animals or any objects, these are all idolatory. In Islam we say La ila ha illal lah — meaning ‘there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah’. This is called Tawhid. And even if people worship Allah but set partners to Him thinking that those partners can intercede for them or worship Allah ‘through’ them or beleive that those partners share in the divinity of Allah —these are all idol worshippers! Lastly, in Islam idolatory is the only unpardonable sin in the sight of Allah:
"Verily, Allah forgiveth not (the sin of) joining other gods with Him; but He forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this: one who joins other gods with Allah, hath strayed far, far away (from the path)." [Sura 4:116]

Most christians are shameless liars. I've got no time to respond to your copy-paste pack of lies, especially because you failed to cite both Biblical & Quranic references to back them up. I'm not not suprised at your rubbish at all. This is what the fake apostle Paul taught you guys. He said it is ok to tell lies and use every deceptive trick in ‘winning’ others.
Romans 3:7— For if the truth of God has increased though MY LIE unto His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?
*Wasn't Paul confessing here to have told lies unto God's glory Well, the blind cannot see.
1 Cor. 9:19-22 — For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all that I might WIN the more: and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; to those who are without law, as without law but under law toward Christ, that I might win those who are without law; to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that BY ALL MEANS I might save some.
*Is there any deception worse than this
Pauline christians usually claim that all of their Bible (including Paul's letters) is ‘inspired word of God’. Even though their real founder (Paul himself) confessed in atleast two places — that he was writing his personal opinions not God's command:
1 Cor. 7:25 — Now concerning virgins: I have NO commandment from the Lord; yet I give judgment as one whom the Lord in His mercy has made trustworthy
2 Cor. 8:8 — I speak NOT by commandment, but I am testing the sincerity of your love by the diligence of others. *Did God inspire him to write those If Paul himself confessed atleast some of his teachings are not from God, but his own opinions, then how can we trust him His whole letters have become suspicious. And nobody except those programmed souls will accept Paul's myths as ‘God's Words’.
In one of his letters Paul told his boy Timothy to bring his coat which he (Paul) left on his way:
2 Timothy 4:13 — Bring the cloak that I left with Carpus at Troas when you come—and the books, especially the parchments.
*Even this the pauline christians want us to accept BY ALL MEANS as‘inerrant’ Word of God. Hence the endless nockings on our doors by them. Which religion really wants to convert all of mankind BY ALL MEANS to its fold? Christianity or Islam
I conclude with apologies to the moderate christians out there (if any).

philfearon:
You are just writing offpoint bro...
Capital this,small this...So,believing about ur smal letter theory in hebrew writing, you want to tell me that God Almighty,YHWH is written in small letter too? The thing is,u are just blind....Even the Jews revere God's name,They are even afraid to call Gods name cuz they know they are unworthy to Call such a Holy name,yet u are here tellin me about all hebrew words written in small letters!!
Do u knw Hebrew? Do u knw it more than those that interpreted it? ....bro eh,u r just runing around,repeating wot u already said...

YHWY is not the Hebrew name of God. It is just the English TRANSLITERATION of the Hebrew letters ‎(יהוה‎). Now, who said that?

“The Hebrew letters are (right to left) Yodh, He, Waw and He (יהוה). It is written as YHWH, YHVH, or JHVH in ENGLISH, depending on the transliteration convention that is used. YHWH is an archaic third person singular imperfect of the verb "to be" (meaning, therefore, "He is". This interpretation agrees with the meaning of the name given in Exodus 3:14 where God is represented as speaking, and hence as using the first person ("I am". (יהוה). It is written as (יהוה). ”
Source:— http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism

You do not even know YHWY is not the actual Hebrew word but just its English transliteration, yet you call me blind? Who is the blind one here? You keep exposing your ignorance of your own religion which you think is the only way to salvation. This is quite unfortunate. May God open your heart to see the light and understand that you have been brainwashed to think the worst of your Creator by associating partners to Him. Trinitarians are polytheists..! They worship 3 Gods not ‘three in one’ God. There can never be ‘three in one’ God but only One God. I'm getting tired with your silly and ignorant arguments. You asked me to explain how Jesus become the begotten son of God even though i do not believe in it. How can that be? This is my concept of God:
Surah 112:1-4
In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
1.Say: He is God, the One and Only;
2.God, the Eternal, Absolute;
3.He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4.And there is none like unto Him.
I'm getting tired of your weak and boring responses. Therefore i decided to quit this discourse but i will come back to continue if you answer my last question. But if you cannot answer my question AND YOU CAN NEVER DO IT. Then just accept that you and your trinitarian pagan beliefs have been thoroughly refuted.
*.. Where in the Bible was the word ‘Trinity’ mentioned?
Goodbye.

philfearon:
And Jesus ain't no man bro! Or are you saying Jesus is man?

Hahahahaha. . .LWKMD! So Jesus was no man, right? Do you think you know more than the Disciple Peter?
Acts 2:22
(KJV)
22 “Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, A MAN approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know”

philfearon:
Bro,that Verse"Let Us Make Man in Our own Image"is really easy to understand....
Since u believe God was not referring to Angels in that verse,then i dont know what else you are saying....
I,Me==>Singular
Us==>Plural..
My==>Singular
Our==>Plural......
God could have said"Let Me Make Man in My Own image",yet He opted to Say"Let Us make Man in Our Own image"....
Unless you will tel me that the passage is mistranslated too or that God is confused about His personality!!

No. God was not confused about His personality but you Trinitarians are! Had God used plural pronouns for Himself throughout the Bible, your claim may seem to be valid. It is amazing you don't even know that in the original Hebrew they have 2 kind of pronouns. Why didn't Jews say God is a Trinity? Do you know their language better than them? God did use singular pronouns also in other verses like (Genesis 1:27), which reads; "And God created man in HIS own image". And Jesus himself also referred to the Creator with a singular pronoun; "And he (Jesus) answered and said unto them, `Have you not read, that He which made them at the beginning made them male and female." (Matthew 19:4) ‘HIS’ in Gen.1:27 and ‘HE’ in Mat.19:4 are both singular pronouns. Aren't they? If Jesus was part of ‘US’ who did the creation, why didn't he use ‘WE’ to include himself but he used ‘HE’ to refer to the Father alone? Why are you only interested in the plural pronouns and ignore the singular ones Why didnt Jesus clearly proclaim in the Bible that he is God Almighty? Or that he along with the father and the spirit created man in their image? Was Jesus afraid the Jewish people might harm him if he tell them “I AM GOD!”? What kind of God was he who is afraid of his ‘own creations’ Consider the following passage of John 8:
——————————
58 Jesus said to them “Most assurely, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.
59 Then they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple...”
——————————
What?? God Almighty HID? Do you guys worship a coward god who is afraid of ‘his own’ creation? LOL. Or was he deceiving them so that they could not know he was their God? Why would he do that? Again you said that, the ‘I AM’ are in capital letters- therefore Jesus is God? Some of you seems to think like the ‘original’ Bible was written in English. For your information, this was only the work of your English translators. In Hebrew, Greek and Arabic there is nothing like capital letters and small letters unlike western languages such as English. The English translators have played fast and loose when translating the Bible in their desperate attempts to present Jesus as God. This is not just a speculation, let me give you examples.
(a) “In whom the god (the Devil) of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not” 2 Cor 4:4
(b) “And the Lord said unto Moses, See I have made thee a god to Pharaoh...” Exd7:1 in both of these verses the translators used small g, ‘god’ to refer to Devil and Moses but they used capital G and W, ‘God’, ‘Word’ to refer to Jesus in John1:1 — ‘and the Word was God.’ But in the original language there is no difference between capital G and small g, the same word was used for both God and god in all the three places. So why do they used capital letters even in pronouns when refering to Jesus and use small letters when refering to others? This is because they believe Jesus is God that is why they carelessly twist the scriptures to portray their irrational claims! The translators do not only use capitalization, in some instances they even distort a passage to conform with their preconceived notions. Here is an example. Compare the following passages from KJV and NIV:
Matthew 19:16-17
King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matthew 19:16-17
New International Version (NIV)
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?”Jesus replied.“There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” Obviously the NIV translators (and other modern versions) felt that Jesus was denying to be God by asking ‘Why callest thou me good?’ and then saying ‘there is none good but one, that is, God:’ so they had to reconstruct the whole statement to ‘Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied.“There is only One who is good.’ Many examples can be given. It is interesting comparing different versions of Bible to see how christians deliberately play with their ‘words of God’.

philfearon:
Ask yourself,Jesus is always called"the only begotten son",{John3:16}{John1:18}{John1:34},and many other verses..Now, who bore Jesus in Heaven? Does God has a wife? How was He{Jesus} concieved in Heaven?

Why did you ask me these questions Did i even tell you i believe Jesus is “begotten son” of God The burden of proof is on you to answer these same questions, since you believe all these claims are true which i don't! Kindly tell us how this mystery happened.
Answer your own questions yourself:

philfearon:
who bore Jesus in Heaven? Does God has a wife? How was He{Jesus} concieved in Heaven?

Again let me add a few other questions to you on this issue of Jesus being “the only begotten son of the father”. Pls answer me now. I don't like the way you skipped important questions/points which i raised earlier, like that the ‘Doctrine of the Trinity’ was invented by church after Jesus Christ left the world etc. Here are more questions for you:
*.. If the Father and His Son were both in "existence" from the beginning, and no one was, a micro second before or after, and, no one was "greater or lesser" in status, then why is one called the Father and the other His begotten Son?
*.. Did the act of "Begetting" take place?
*.If YES, where was the "Begotten Son" before the act?
*.. If NO, why call him the "Begotten Son"?

I agree with all of their submissions except this one:
——————————
Was Jesus based on a real person from history? "The short answer is no,"
——————————
I believe the ‘Biblical Jesus’ was based on a certain ‘historical Jesus’ but most (if not all) of the Bible stories about him are fabrications!.

philfearon:
Mathew28:19is a very simple passage to comprehend.....Even a kid will understand that passage....For you to have told me that that Passage was attached,hmmmmmm,i dont think i can answer u again

Why won't you answer me? Those were not my words! I only quoted learned Biblical scholars. But even if you don't agree with them, I told you Mathew28:19 still does not at all indicate that the three names mentioned in the formula are or were, "co-equal" in their status, as well as, were "co-eternal" in the time frame, and "un-created" to conform with your acknowledged `Doctrine of Trinity'. Where are your replies to all my previous responses?? Is it that you agree all your claims were refuted only Mat28:19 you are not ok with? Are you quitting our educative discourse because i quoted Bible Scholars saying a verse was added to your Bible? So you think the Bible has never been tempered with since it was first written, right? Is ok. Now tell me if you agree that i have refuted all your trinitarian claims, then we can begin to talk about the Bible itself. Pls don't run away o. Perhaps you may ‘clinch a convert for Christ.’ lol