Does sacrifice brings about positive change, Like our fore-fathers used to do? e.g. does it? brings rain, brings good will, fight disease?

If no,


why do you believe in story of Jesus of Nazareth? It is a story of human sacrifice to save humans from sins.

Sins that we committed. Did Jesus of Nazareth wash our sins with his blood?
Discuss,

@Grown_Man
you cannot claim neutrality, taking a position of faith, in turns means you actively endorse and support it. And therefore its effects. We atheists cannot just sit pretty and let you be, because muslims are butchering christians and vice versa every other day. or hindus/muslims/christians/buddhists, even within these (e.g. shia vs sunnis) we have waring factions. You need to engage yourself and find out the truth, burying your head in the sand, is not the solution.

@dirtygamer to believe in Satan you have to to believe God. They are need each other to exist. They are the inseparable twins of any religion. Because it is how humans, understand the world. naturally, they then shape their Gods as such, that's why it feels to right. notice feels so right, however, that does not make it right.

@dirtygamer
the da vinci code, is a work of fiction.
The guy even got the dimensions of the" Virgin of the Rock" wrong!!!! There is no way Sophie could have lifted it unassisted. It far too heavy.
There are numerous other logical mistakes, that are just too glowing, if you have been to France and the seen the Louvre . You'd find the book disgusting.
It would not have cost Dan Brown anything to be truthful about what we can easily verify, how can we possibly trust him when it comes to the other rumors that he purports to be true?

brainpulse:

@ zataxs

Have you seen Death before and yet people says he/she/its has a COLD hand.
Please prove that he doesn't exist or exist.

Please, please and please.

Have you seen the wind before but people believes he/ she/ its the oldest thing that ever exist.
Please prove that he/she/its doesn't exist or exist.

@brainpulse
First, I think it is wrong to characterize death like this. There is no evidence that it is an entity, so why do it.
It may be poetic but it is surely not scientific in any way.
So please, ?
Notice you are the one who is saying - Death is an entity.
I understand, there is fear, but a wrong answer does not get you are a correct grade.
Once there is substantial evidence to e.g.  existing as a being death, then I will have no problem joining you in this characterization.

It is far better not to be believe in God and find he does exist than to believe in the wrong God and find that the god your hated the most is indeed the true God.

@enigma, when someone talks of Dunning-Kruger Effect without understanding it and puts it out of context. The jokes really on him. It does not make you look wise, quite the opposite.
In other words Dunning-Kruger Effect is not taken in by faith like the bible, but by scientific understanding.
It is a lot like when Intelligent "Designist" take up evolution. This is called bad science.

@Enigma Like you must have been told many times,  scientists /philosophers cannot reverse the validity of their work by their actions or what they say later. We judge the work not the person. The works stands on its own. It is a lot more logical/mechanical/emotionless way of looking at things.

@emmatok where is the insult there? that is a muslim carrying a banner. and he is not the only one, there are were many similar banners in the same gathering and many gathering like this are all over the internet.

@brainpulse

There is really no reason to shout at all.

IT IS VERY HEALTHY IF AN ATHEIST BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NO GOD. AND IT IS UNDERSTANDING IF THEY TEND TO WANT TO USE THE COMPREHENSION OF HUMAN UNDERSTANDING TO REVEAL THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD, WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE.
<<
No atheist in his right mind is trying to use human understanding to reveal the knowledge of God. This is of course impossible like you state.
Mostly because there is no God in the first place.

>>

WHILE WE DO NOT SEE GOD, BUT THAT DOESN'T PROVE THAT THERE IS NO GOD. NOBODY HAS SEEN THE WIND BEFORE BUT WE FEEL IT. NOBODY HAS SEEN DEATH BEFORE BUT WE BELIEVE THAT THERE IS DEATH AND IT WILL COME TO MAN ONE DAY. IF WE CAN NOT PROVE SOMETHINGS THROUGH OUR 6 SENSES THAT DOES NOT MEAN IT DOESN'T EXIST. IT ONLY MAKES A FOOL OF OURSELVES WHEN WE BELIEVE THAT SOMETHINGS DONT EXIST AND DISCOVERIES LATER FINDS OUT SUCH A THING EXIST.
<<
Feeling something does not constitute its existence. The feeling is real. I don't doubt. But the object in question may or may not exist. feeling is not an attribute of something that exists.
I feel that it will rain today, it may not rain, it many rain, it does little to prove because you felt it rained. Get my drift?
People see/feel sometimes what is not real,

E.g. maybe people may feel that someone else hates them or even loves them, either a gut feeling or by trying to interrupt the others reactions/actions. but they could be wrong right?


>>

GOD ONLY REVEALS HIMSELVES TO THOSE THAT EARNESTLY SEEK HIM IN TRUTH AND IN SPIRIT ( PALS DONT LET US ARGUE AGAIN ON THE EXISTENCE OF SPIRIT). AND THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIS EXISTENCE CAN ONLY COME TO A MAN BY FAITH. AND WHEN HIS REVELATION COMES YOU BEGIN TO FEEL HIM AND KNOW HIM BETTER. YOU CAN NEVER NEVER COME TO THE REALITY OF HIS EXISTENCE MY HUMAN KNOWLEDGE. AND NO MATTER HOW YOU DO NT BELIEVE HIS EXISTENCE IT CAN NEVER REMOVE ANYTHING FROM HIM. FINE YOU CAN HAVE EVERYTHING IN THIS WORLD AND STILL DON'T BELIEVE HE EXIST, IT STILL HAS NOT PROVEN ANY FACT THAT HE DOES NT EXIST.

<<
Before the White man came to Nigeria amadioha was "real",  and people felt his power. They had visions that actually materialized into fact( few admit where they failed though and made the wrong predictions) , now christianity is no exception. Do you think your experience is more authentic than an Islamic one or Buddhists one? how about baptist vs catholic?
>>

NOTE. YOU CAN NEVER PROVE THAT GOD EXIST IN THE LAB, IN THE WORK SHOP, IN A REACTOR ETC ( THAT IS THE PROBLEM OF EV RY ATHEIST), THEY WANT A SCIENTIFIC PROVE AND GOD IS NOT A LAB MOUSE TO CONDUCT EXPERIMENT ON. TO SO MANY MILLIONS OUT THERE THAT HAS EXPERIENCE GOD, YOU CANT JUST TELL THEM THAT HE DOESNT EXIST JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT COME TO THE REALITY OF IT. I BELEIVE THERE IS NO AEITHEIST JUST A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT WILLING AND PATIENT TO EXPERIENCE THE AWSOMENESS AND THE BEAUTY OF HIS EXISTENCE.

<< no one intends to prove the existence of God in a lab and no one is attempting to.
no the game of numbers , many millions experience Buddha or Krishna so does he exist? why such a myopic world view, do you think it is only Jesus that people still believe in right now?
contrary to what you say, atheists are extremely patient, that's why most notable scientists who discover medicines and invent machines that we both enjoy are atheists
>>

@emmatok
I would like to see examples of where insults where hurtled from atheists to christians,
I think there are people calling others mumus here, I really doubt any non-god fearing atheist would do this.
If so, please e.g. example and they will be addressed
I believe all atheists are with me here when we say we want dialogue without abuses and threats.

@diluminati please listen to tupac, I have attached the video right there for you, just press play. You brought tupac the least you can do is give him an ear.

@Deep Sight
very wise, you have seen the folly of scripture, that's a great step in the direction. Keep walking.

@toba
God like anyone word is not beyond definition.
Any word that cannot defined is not a words, but gibberish.

@islamrules screaming God does not manufacture God, anyone can scream whatever they like. Screaming is not a requirement for something to exist.

@hauwabd useless, in this context means toothless/ineffective/hopeless, barks but does not bite.

About the English, I said it is okay, I know what you meant when you said "reverse" so let's move on.

If you watch it you will know. It is explains what I am saying very well, that's why I referenced it.

@pastor aio
this is but Job's testimony , right?
god blesses and rewards with material things. It is in the bible.

@Blackteeth there is no puzzle, praying is your pacifier that soothes you to sleep. It does not have to be real or effective in any other way besides this. Some people take a beer instead or watch porn or just convince themselves that their brain is playing tricks on them. The best way of dealing with nightmares is to confront them call upon that demon that is haunting you to come and bite off your neck, and nothing will materialize, praying in just a placebo you need to deal with your fears.

We spoke about this on the other thread. Dawkins is but a man. He can only assert what he knows.

<<
You are also but a man, and you can only assert what you know from a book printed by men.
and stories in it written by men, not barbaric ones if I may add.
There is no proof whatsoever that God wrote any book or inspired anything, none at all.
If you wrote a book and you said that God inspired it, then we only have your word to proof it, which sad to say it is not good enough.
People pass on religion to their children, if God was the creator of the bible he would not be at the mercy of Sunday school teachers or semi-illiterate pastors.
>>

The very origin of the universe itself he never claimed to know. He says it is not within his field.
Anybody (absolutely anybody) can claim "God did it".
<< All except scientist who take the trouble to find a better answer
??

I think Hitchens has the best reply for you.

[flash=600,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nIRJVmZ4K8[/flash]

It is interesting that you admit that you are just blubbering about and you don't know what you are talking about.

oh lets sing and rejoice

@Martian 'true dat, history channel is quite disappointing sometimes.
@frosbel spawn of Satan? muhahahahahaha
Well said, Jesus would be so proud.

reverse, by reverse you mean reversing the order of the words? or each letter one by one? You meant switching the subject with the object( converse). anyway, I get what you mean, let's not get so hang up with English.


Check the video in the first post.

y dear, I will defend my logical arguments, but i will not defend my subjective personal experiences. They are personal to me, and i seek to convince no one of anything by sharing them. I only share to to express some of the reasons that i personally believe in a bigger reality.
<<
This sounds like the local witchdoctor that you spend sunday sermons criticizes. Anything significant is personal.  Let's be honest. You say it is personal because.
1. It is embarrassing
2. It is juvenile and plain silly
3. You are obviously making it up
4. You are not seeking to convince anyone because you cannot,  we will destroy your argument and exposure your fallacy with extreme ease.
5. Most importantly, it is all about you. You share personal experiences with God. Because you are God.
Christians, Muslims! Come on,  raise the content and standards of your arguments. Your letting your whole faith done,  come on guys.
>>

@Martin the video is pretty lame, to be honest. Reminds me of the oracle of delphi

Just help someone if they need help and don't you feel need. Don't use this focus to justify not helping your needy family members in the vain attempt to by god's favour by tithing.

Well this what your tupac said,

"I sold my soul for a chance to kick it and bang
Now tell if I'm wrong
but sayin "Bleep the world" got you deeper in my songs
Drinkin 'til I earl, spendin money 'til it's gone
It's the good life - maybe niggaz got it goin on"
"why I should change, into a softie
,  after living so loftily
It cost me my soul out of control in a devil's world"

but more importantly he said he is Jesus,  very smart,  don't you agree
[flash=600,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjHhJ-qSZ4Q[/flash]

Posted by: beloved dan
Insert Quote
In the days of prophet moses, his kins were bitten by snakes. He told them to go look at the brazen serpent and live, but they slighted him and died.

<< these are the immoral stories children are taught in Sunday school and when they grow up to be dim witted rapists we get surprised, >



It started from Adam; people will always disbelief prophets. Even the lord Jesus had similar experience of people doubting his person.
<<God doubts God, this is not just illogical, it is also stupid>>

For sure, there are the fake, but then the ture are. God's prophets still tread our planet. I called the prophet on phone and not only did he call me by my name, he told me things that truely happened in my life. To God be the praise.

<< This is really, are terrible conclusion. Put the contacts of that prophet here, I would like to challenge him or her, If this is how you reason, it is no wonder a "prophet" was able to fool you so easily and it comes to no ones surprise that you left the phone beaming from ear to ear>>