chukwudi44:
Malachi 3:1-2

New International Version (NIV)

3 “I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the Lord Almighty

Where in that passage is Jesus reffered to as an angel? The messenger mentioned here is obvisiously John the baptist.The word angel is not even mentioned at all

is John the baptist the " messenger of the covanant" whom the Jews were desiring?

Na waoh!

Then who is preparing the way?

Hmmm!

Please my brothers and sisters,can we say these translations are wrong for calling Jesus the angel of the covenant A.K.A ""messenger of the covenant""??....


This is malachi 3:1 from these 2 translations I'll quote...



##Douay-Rheims Bible
Behold I send my angel, and he shall prepare
the way before my face. And presently the
Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the
testament, whom you desire, shall come to his
temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of
hosts.
________________________

##....Darby Bible Translation
Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall
prepare the way before me; and the Lord
whom ye seek will suddenly come to his
temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom
ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah
of hosts.
_________________________

Now this is what barrister and truthislight have been trying to butress.......

Jesus as we know came from heaven.......we all know what heavenly messengers are called irrespective of there ranks........the greek and hebrew words used in that malachi both for JOHN and JESUS are the same words we render as ANGEL...........and those words are AG'GE-LOS and MAL-'A-KH' respectively....the Douay-Rheims Bible even refers to JOHN as angel talk less of Jesus who came down from the heavens.....

_____________________________
Which ever way we wanna look at it,Jesus was called an angel or a messenger in that verse.............all heavenly messengers of GOD(YAHWEH) can be rightly called angels......and Jesus isn't exempted.....Jesus is Gods(Yahwehs) Chief messenger.........

The only person who should be having problem with this is frosbel who does not believe Jesus pre-existed as a spirit being before his descending to the earth.......for all those who believe Jesus was a spirit in heaven before coming to the earth you should all go back and study hard.....this is not about JW or what not..........



________________________
Now I will ask these questions one more time......


1....What are heavenly messengers of GOD called??

2....was Jesus ever a messenger of GOD??YES or NO

Jesus being reffered to as an ANGEL does not in anyway degrade him ...........
_________________________

if you think Jesus being called an angel degrades Him,how about Jesus being reffered to as the HIGH PRIEST if Yahweh......how about Jesus being reffered to as Yahwehs apostle......how about Jesus being reffered to as Yahwehs servant.....

Right now as we speak Jesus is a servant of YAHWEH..........

""Servant"" is a title we all bear(including) Jesus except Yahweh who is over all......

As far as the scriptures is concerned Jesus remains a messenger of Yahweh......and nothing SPOIL,,,,,,,

ijawkid: Please my brothers and sisters,can we say these translations are wrong for calling Jesus the angel of the covenant A.K.A ""messenger of the covenant""??....


This is malachi 3:1 from these 2 translations I'll quote...



##Douay-Rheims Bible
Behold I send my angel, and he shall prepare
the way before my face. And presently the
Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the
testament, whom you desire, shall come to his
temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of
hosts.
________________________

##....Darby Bible Translation
Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall
prepare the way before me; and the Lord
whom ye seek will suddenly come to his
temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom
ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah
of hosts.
_________________________

Now this is what barrister and truthislight have been trying to butress.......

Jesus as we know came from heaven.......we all know what heavenly messengers are called irrespective of there ranks........the greek and hebrew words used in that malachi both for JOHN and JESUS are the same words we render as ANGEL...........and those words are AG'GE-LOS and MAL-'A-KH' respectively....the Douay-Rheims Bible even refers to JOHN as angel talk less of Jesus who came down from the heavens.....

_____________________________
Which ever way we wanna look at it,Jesus was called an angel or a messenger in that verse.............all heavenly messengers of GOD(YAHWEH) can be rightly called angels......and Jesus isn't exempted.....Jesus is Gods(Yahwehs) Chief messenger.........

The only person who should be having problem with this is frosbel who does not believe Jesus pre-existed as a spirit being before his descending to the earth.......for all those who believe Jesus was a spirit in heaven before coming to the earth you should all go back and study hard.....this is not about JW or what not..........



________________________
Now I will ask these questions one more time......


1....What are heavenly messengers of GOD called??

2....was Jesus ever a messenger of GOD??YES or NO

yes, Jesus was Yahweh's messenger from heaven also.

ijawkid: Jesus being reffered to as an ANGEL does not in anyway degrade him ...........
_________________________

if you think Jesus being called an angel degrades Him,how about Jesus being reffered to as the HIGH PRIEST if Yahweh......how about Jesus being reffered to as Yahwehs apostle......how about Jesus being reffered to as Yahwehs servant.....

Right now as we speak Jesus is a servant of YAHWEH..........

""Servant"" is a title we all bear(including) Jesus except Yahweh who is over all......

As far as the scriptures is concerned Jesus remains a messenger of Yahweh......and nothing SPOIL,,,,,,,

and Jesus was very proud obeying the words of Yahweh even telling satan: it is God alone you must obey".

It was because of him being a faithful messenger that Yahweh rewarded him with a name that is above every other name in heaven and on earth.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Douay-Rheims 1899 (one of the oldest bible)

Behold I send my angel, and he shall prepare
the way before my face. And presently the
Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the
testament, whom you desire, shall come to his
temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of
hosts.
________________________

Darby Bible Translation

Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall
prepare the way before me; and the Lord
whom ye seek will suddenly come to his
temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom
ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah
of hosts.

[size=18pt]and who is the angel of the covenant whom we delight/desire?[/size]

hebrews 7:22

22 ''by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant''.

Hebrews 12:24


24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Hebrews 9:15

15[i] And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.[/i]

Bros, I salute una...o!

ijawkid:
Now I will ask these questions one more time......


1....What are heavenly messengers of GOD called??

2....was Jesus ever a messenger of GOD??YES or NO

1. ...The Hebrew and Greek words for angel in ancient times meant messenger, therefore, the heavenly messengers of God are called 'Angels'.

2....YES,, Jesus was/is the messenger of God. In fact, there has never been any heavenly messenger greater than Jesus - he is the chief among the messengers.

American Standard
Version
And I (Jesus) will strengthen
them in Jehovah; and they
shall walk up and down in
"his" (Yahweh's) name, saith
Jehovah.

From what you inserted here, it looks as if it is Jesus that said "I will strengthen them in Jehovah..." and afterwards the statement is "saith by Jehovah."

Are you trying to say that Jesus is Jehovah while Yahweh is the Father?

I gave you a link where statements like that were treated. Stop inserting Jesus where you did not see it.

plappville:

You did not treat these verses even the one you presented still shows Christ was the one talking. Whose Name will they walk uo and down? Yahweh's name no?

Again, It is Christ talking in verse two. Zachariah three told us It was Jesus talking. Who is the Lord that says The Lord rebuke Satan? Is it God Himself?
If It is Yahweh, why and who is greater than Him that He will have to refers the rebuking of Satan to?

Zachariah3: 2 And the LORD (Jesus) said to Satan, "The LORD (Yahweh) rebuke you, Satan!
The LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! This is referring to Yahweh.
If it was Yahweh, He will say I rebuke you. It shows that the Angel of the Lord that Satan tried to oppossed is the same one that is also called "The lord".
That's my point and you did not see it, but went and gave me an other verse.

Zechariah 3:1-2
Good News Translation (GNT)

In another vision the LORD
showed me the High Priest Joshua
standing before the angel of the
LORD. And there beside Joshua
stood Satan, ready to bring an
accusation against him. 2 The angel
of the LORD[b] said to Satan, “May
the LORD condemn you, Satan! May
the LORD, who loves Jerusalem,
condemn you. This man is like a
stick snatched from the fire.”

Is this not a better translation? If you still use LORD LORD that cannot be differentiated then my explanations and the link above shows it is.

Jesus Christ is the Messiah come in the flesh.


He is not a pre-existent Michael, this is the JW stance not the bible.

I agree with my JW brothers on so many issues , but we have to part our ways on this issue.

ijawkid: Please my brothers and sisters,can we say these translations are wrong for calling Jesus the angel of the covenant A.K.A ""messenger of the covenant""??....


This is malachi 3:1 from these 2 translations I'll quote...



##Douay-Rheims Bible
Behold I send my angel, and he shall prepare
the way before my face. And presently the
Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the
testament, whom you desire, shall come to his
temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of
hosts.
________________________

##....Darby Bible Translation
Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall
prepare the way before me; and the Lord
whom ye seek will suddenly come to his
temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom
ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah
of hosts.
_________________________

Now this is what barrister and truthislight have been trying to butress.......

Jesus as we know came from heaven.......we all know what heavenly messengers are called irrespective of there ranks........the greek and hebrew words used in that malachi both for JOHN and JESUS are the same words we render as ANGEL...........and those words are AG'GE-LOS and MAL-'A-KH' respectively....the Douay-Rheims Bible even refers to JOHN as angel talk less of Jesus who came down from the heavens.....

_____________________________
Which ever way we wanna look at it,Jesus was called an angel or a messenger in that verse.............all heavenly messengers of GOD(YAHWEH) can be rightly called angels......and Jesus isn't exempted.....Jesus is Gods(Yahwehs) Chief messenger.........

The only person who should be having problem with this is frosbel who does not believe Jesus pre-existed as a spirit being before his descending to the earth.......for all those who believe Jesus was a spirit in heaven before coming to the earth you should all go back and study hard.....this is not about JW or what not..........



________________________
Now I will ask these questions one more time......


1....What are heavenly messengers of GOD called??

2....was Jesus ever a messenger of GOD??YES or NO

1 Angels.

2 Yes. Trinitarians take note.

With reference to 1, what of angel john the Baptist? Is he an angel from heaven who did not know/recognise angel Jesus when they were in heaven?(because he was not sure if Jesus is the messiah) Or don't you think these translations choose to translate "messenger" as "angels"?

Boomark:

1 Angels.

2 Yes. Trinitarians take note.

With reference to 1, what of angel john the Baptist? Is he an angel from heaven who did not know/recognise angel Jesus when they were in heaven?(because he was not sure if Jesus is the messiah) Or don't you think these translations choose to translate "messenger" as "angels"?

John wasnt from the heavens as we know it...but Jesus did pre-exist as a spirit creature before descending....

now the point is from the original hebrew and greek words used as in malachi 3:1 and in other chapters and verses of the scriptures AG'GE-LOS and MAL-'A-KH' apply to both human and heavenly messengers of Yahweh..

.but as we know all ""heavenly messengers"" are strictly angels....and Jesus isnt exempted...


those translations are right.....messenger = angel.....especially when speaking of spirit messengers of yahweh...

But let's not forget:::::: Jesus is the chief of all Yahwehs messengers...

See as boys dey uproot scriptures.

Boomark: American Standard
Version
And I (Jesus) will strengthen
them in Jehovah; and they
shall walk up and down in
"his" (Yahweh's) name, saith
Jehovah.

From what you inserted here, it looks as if it is Jesus that said "I will strengthen them in Jehovah..." and afterwards the statement is "saith by Jehovah."

Are you trying to say that Jesus is Jehovah while Yahweh is the Father?

I gave you a link where statements like that were treated. Stop inserting Jesus where you did not see it.

[size=14pt] IS Jesus the word of God or not? [/size] I did not Say that Jesus is Jehovah, some scripure will uses "the lord" some times for both Yahweh and Jesus. So its now translation problem abi?
All other translation used "the Lord" only the one that used ANGEL you chosed to accept.
You'r Not been Honest here BRO...!


Zechariah 3:1-2
Good News Translation (GNT)

In another vision the LORD
showed me the High Priest Joshua
standing before the angel of the
LORD. And there beside Joshua
stood Satan, ready to bring an
accusation against him. 2 The angel
of the LORD[b] said to Satan, “May
the LORD condemn you, Satan! May
the LORD, who loves Jerusalem,
condemn you. This man is like a
stick snatched from the fire.”

Is this not a better translation? If you still use LORD LORD that cannot be differentiated then my explanations and the link above shows it is.

Hey bro, i am not the majority translators, why didnrt you used this one to completelly convince us?

(NLT) 3 Then the angel showed me Jeshua[a] the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord. The Accuser, Satan, was there at the angel’s right hand, making accusations against Jeshua. 2 And the Lord said to Satan, “I, the Lord, reject your accusations, Satan. Yes, the Lord, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebukes you. This man is like a burning stick that has been snatched from the fire.”

See more versions:
(KJV)3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

NASB: 3:1 Then he showed me aJoshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and 1bSatan standing at his right hand to accuse him.
2 The Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, Satan! Indeed, the Lord who has bchosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a cbrand plucked from the fire?”

AV 1873: And he shewed me aJoshua bthe high priest standing before cthe angel of the Lord, and d* Satan standing at his right hand * to resist him.
2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan;
Even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee:
Is not this ga brand pluckt out of the fire?

NIRV: Then the Lord showed me the high priest Jeshua. He was standing in front of the angel of the Lord. Satan was standing to the right of Jeshua. He was there to bring charges against the high priest. 2The Lord said to Satan, “May the Lord correct you! He has chosen Jerusalem. So may he correct you! Isn’t this man Jeshua like a burning stick pulled out of the fire?”

NIV: Then he showed me Joshuaa u the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satanb v standing at his right side to accuse him. 2 The Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you,w Satan! The Lord, who has chosenx Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning sticky snatched from the fire?”z


The truth is that, The Angel of the lord is the same lord that is telling Satan that God rebuked Satan.
God is the one that Has chosen Israel. Jesus told us that God sent him to the lost sheep of Israel.
The Lord here referred the rebuking to God almight just like Michael did when contending for the body of Moses with Satan.
There is no twisting here, This two chapters are tied up. Zechariah 3:1-5 and Jude 1:9

ijawkid: Jesus being reffered to as an ANGEL does not in anyway degrade him ...........
_________________________

if you think Jesus being called an angel degrades Him,how about Jesus being reffered to as the HIGH PRIEST if Yahweh......how about Jesus being reffered to as Yahwehs apostle......how about Jesus being reffered to as Yahwehs servant.....

Right now as we speak Jesus is a servant of YAHWEH..........

""Servant"" is a title we all bear(including) Jesus except Yahweh who is over all......

As far as the scriptures is concerned Jesus remains a messenger of Yahweh......and nothing SPOIL,,,,,,,

MINDS ARE HARDEN TO ACCEPT WHAT THEY SEE IN THE SCRIPTURES, WE CAN PUT UP THE SCRIPTURE FOR EVERYONE
TO SEE BUT WE CANNOT FORCE ANYONE TO ACCEPT WHAT IS IN IT.

WITH ALL THE SCRIPTURES THAT HAVE PROVED THE angel of the lord BEING REFFERED TO AS CHRIST, they still don't accept them.
With all the scriptures plain in front of bros @Frosbel showing Christ pre-existance, He persist in his Belief that Chirst never pre'existed.
None is been forced to believe or accept what the scripture says. But as we all can clearly see in this thread, Scripture as been interpreting scriptures.

Good work so far broo!

BARRISTERS: @ubenedictus



this type of your illiteracy has entered 'agono' or 'alagono' like the yorubas says, instead of you to have asked what 'your worship' and other legal 'registers' means before proceeding on a public here on NL to expose your dirty linnen. now in legal terms, if you dont know, these registers you mention above with ignorance are exclusively for legal usages, no judge is called 'your worship' ehn? but they are addressed that way because of their superiority among those seated in the court.

there is no link between using 'your worship' addresing a judge complying with legal requirements in a court of law, and the pope who on his own wrote in his Bull and was said to be permitting and encouraging the worship of the seven archangels

''Pope Pius V said in his Bull to the Spanish Clergy, permitting and encouraging the worship of the seven archangels

the difference is that is that the decision to singlehandedly permit and encouraged such idolatory act was not a unanimous resolution,but he forced or led the church into idolatory.while that of the court are unanimously agreed to and adressed to the judges 'office'. okay?
olodo.


you are a liar, see picture A below, your priests were blessing armoury,and guns, actively participating in blessing tools that will be used not to kill grasscutters or antelopes but a fellow humans like you, now can you say that these priests respect Gods command

THOU SHALL NOT KILL? but the priest blessed the armoury with so-called holy water not mindfull of other catholics in the other opponents camp. we saw catholics soldiers (britain/America) vs catholic soldiers (france)(germany) killing each other,

what a shame, see the pics of a shamefull act of your priest below pics A


yeah,

since u called me a liar, then i have to acknowledge u stupidity, try telling me what worship it using the root words. If u dont know u shuld ask kwesun b4 u accuse.

BARRISTERS:

True and authentic!, plenty plenty still dey! just concentrate on what you are doing and let me engage them with their criminal past. and let the whole world see their yansh!

hahaha, i can't find d so-called criminal past, u must b in a fairy tale world.

pastormustwacc: See as boys dey uproot scriptures.

interesting!

@Boomark

1 Angels.

2 Yes. Trinitarians take note.

With reference to 1, what of angel john the Baptist? Is he an angel from heaven who did not know/recognise angel Jesus when they were in heaven?(because he was not sure if Jesus is the messiah) Or don't you think these translations choose to translate "messenger" as "angels"?

your question answered! you ban us from translating,that we should show bible verse that
renders jesus an angel.that is it below, while john still rendered 'my messenger' it is another thing to start jumping to john issue now, but see the translation below,


mathew 7:10-11 Darby Translation (DARBY)

10 this is he of whom it is written, Behold, *I* send my messenger before thy face, who shall prepare thy way before thee.

11 Verily I say to you, that there is not arisen among [the] born of women a greater than John the baptist. But he who is a little one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he.

malachi 3:1

##....Darby Bible Translation
Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall
prepare the way before me; and the Lord
whom ye seek will suddenly come to his
temple, and [size=18pt]the Angel of the covenant, whom
ye delight in[/size]: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah
of hosts.

are you satisfied now before translating? tell us pls

Them don dey sweat *this is serious, angel of convenant, abeg na which bros be that angel o*?

Ubenedictus: since u called me a liar, then i have to acknowledge u stupidity, try telling me what worship it using the root words. If u dont know u shuld ask kwesun b4 u accuse.

what are you not telling me?

"Worship" in legal term and worship in religious term is it the same?

In religious terms(christianity) who determines worship? Pope? No

God does, who then is the pope to determine who should be worship?

How Yahweh will be happy with him for his Redirection of worship to the "seven"

ijawkid:

John wasnt from the heavens as we know it...but Jesus did pre-exist as a spirit creature before descending....

now the point is from the original hebrew and greek words used as in malachi 3:1 and in other chapters and verses of the scriptures AG'GE-LOS and MAL-'A-KH' apply to both human and heavenly messengers of Yahweh..

.but as we know all ""heavenly messengers"" are strictly angels....and Jesus isnt exempted...


those translations are right.....messenger = angel.....especially when speaking of spirit messengers of yahweh...

But let's not forget:::::: Jesus is the chief of all Yahwehs messengers...

We all know who angels are. So i want to know if john the Baptist is an angel, is he?

BARRISTERS: @Boomark



your question answered! you ban us from translating,that we should show bible verse that
renders jesus an angel.that is it below, while john still rendered 'my messenger' it is another thing to start jumping to john issue now, but see the translation below,


mathew 7:10-11 Darby Translation (DARBY)

10 this is he of whom it is written, Behold, *I* send my messenger before thy face, who shall prepare thy way before thee.

11 Verily I say to you, that there is not arisen among [the] born of women a greater than John the baptist. But he who is a little one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he.

malachi 3:1

##....Darby Bible Translation
Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall
prepare the way before me; and the Lord
whom ye seek will suddenly come to his
temple, and [size=18pt]the Angel of the covenant, whom
ye delight in[/size]: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah
of hosts.

are you satisfied now before translating? tell us pls

##Douay-Rheims Bible
Behold I send my angel, and he
shall prepare
the way before my face. And
presently the
Lord, whom you seek, and the
angel of the
testament, whom you desire,
shall come to his
temple. Behold he cometh,
saith the Lord of
hosts.

Can you explain why john was called an angel?

Boomark:

We all know who angels are. So i want to know if john the Baptist is an angel, is he?

From the original words used we can say he is(though not a spirit mÉssenger ).... ..........the reader who reads
the original words that is rendered ""angel"" or ""messenger"" shoÙld know when to apply those words......when that titlÉ is used fÓr spirit creatures(spirit messengers of God) you sure know what should be rendered.......


in Jesus'(he came from heaven) case I guess you know the answer.............Jesus
was a spirit before he was sent and so being called an angel rightlÝ fits..........and malachi just shows that........


those 2 words messenger and ANGEL can be used interchangeably,but the persons involved should tell us the most appropriate Óne to choose...........

1.....Is the being involved a spirit messenger
Or an earthly one??.........

2....which is Jesu§??a heavenly messÉnger or an earthly messenger??

After going through 19 pages of this thread, seems this can be called.

The defense of those who reject Christ as Archangel seem based largely on just Heb 1:4-6 - "So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?"

This shows clearly Christ to be superior to angels. However, this verse does not necessarily contradict Christ being Archangel as the the term "Archangel", meaning "Chief Angel" shows superiority to the normal angels, obviously under the command of the Archangel.

What appears to be the superior argument, based on several bible verses equates Jesus to the ArchAngel Michael. This is because the scriptures listed strongly link actions assigned only to God's Son Jesus as also being assigned the ArchAngel.


(a) 1 Thess 4:16 - "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first".

This shows Christ will resurrect the dead, with ArchAngel's voice.


(b)John 5:25-28 - "Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice".

This shows Christ will resurrect the dead, with his own voice. Meaning Christ's Voice = ArchAngel's voice.

(c)Dan 12:1; Revelation 12:7; Jude 1:9 - "But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!""

These verses identifies ArchAngel as being called Michael, and having angels at his command.The term "the Archangel" as used in Jude may also indicate there's only one Archangel.

(d) Malachi 3:1 - "Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and the Lord whom ye seek will suddenly come to his temple, and the Angel of the covenant , whom ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts".

Here the word commonly translated as "angel", meaning "messenger" is apparently used for Christ.


It was also showed that being Archangel is not insulting to Christ as he was even lower than angels at some point before being exalted by God above every other creature.

Also Heb 2:9 - "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man".

Clearly, "nothing spoil" in Christ being Archangel, leading angels and being at the forefront of carrying out God's assignments. The scriptures support it. Seems the issue is really about strongly held beliefs that can't be supported from the bible.

Boomark:

We all know who angels are. So i want to know if john the Baptist is an angel, is he?

this is childs play.

Should use my time for more important things and not for all post.

.

Boomark:

##Douay-Rheims Bible
Behold I send my angel, and he
shall prepare
the way before my face. And
presently the
Lord, whom you seek, and the
angel of the
testament, whom you desire,
shall come to his
temple. Behold he cometh,
saith the Lord of
hosts.

Can you explain why john was called an angel?

this should be a translation issue.

The word for angel and messenger means the same.

The one preparing the way is John the baptist and we all know that.

note the separations below and try again.
Still bearing in mind that the word angel and messenger means the same thing here.

##Douay-Rheims Bible


1. Behold I send my angel, and he
shall "prepare"
"the way before my face." And

presently

"the Lord, whom you seek"
and the angel of the testament,
"whom you desire",
shall come to his
temple".(the massaiah)


Behold he cometh,
saith the Lord of
hosts.


Can we say it is John the baptist that the jews and all the people desired? No

but rather the massaiah that John the baptist was the fore runner.
Peace

TroGunn: After going through 19 pages of this thread, seems this can be called.

The defense of those who reject Christ as Archangel seem based largely on just Heb 1:4-6 - "So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?"

This shows clearly Christ to be superior to angels. However, this verse does not necessarily contradict Christ being Archangel as the the term "Archangel", meaning "Chief Angel" shows superiority to the normal angels, obviously under the command of the Archangel.

What appears to be the superior argument, based on several bible verses equates Jesus to the ArchAngel Michael. This is because the scriptures listed strongly link actions assigned only to God's Son Jesus as also being assigned the ArchAngel.


(a) 1 Thess 4:16 - "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first".

This shows Christ will resurrect the dead, with ArchAngel's voice.


(b)John 5:25-28 - "Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice".

This shows Christ will resurrect the dead, with his own voice. Meaning Christ's Voice = ArchAngel's voice.

(c)Dan 12:1; Revelation 12:7; Jude 1:9 - "But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!""

These verses identifies ArchAngel as being called Michael, and having angels at his command.The term "the Archangel" as used in Jude may also indicate there's only one Archangel.

(d) Malachi 3:1 - "Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and the Lord whom ye seek will suddenly come to his temple, and the Angel of the covenant , whom ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts".

Here the word commonly translated as "angel", meaning "messenger" is apparently used for Christ.


It was also showed that being Archangel is not insulting to Christ as he was even lower than angels at some point before being exalted by God above every other creature.

Also Heb 2:9 - "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man".

Clearly, "nothing spoil" in Christ being Archangel, leading angels and being at the forefront of carrying out God's assignments. The scriptures support it. Seems the issue is really about strongly held beliefs that can't be supported from the bible.

remain bless.

@Boomark

##Douay-Rheims Bible
Behold I send my angel, and he
shall prepare
the way before my face. And
presently the
Lord, whom you seek, and the
angel of the
testament, whom you desire,
shall come to his
temple. Behold he cometh,
saith the Lord of
hosts.

Can you explain why john was called an angel?

you know that had it been that it was NWT new world translation that renders it angel,you would have accused the JWS.

but your question is answered, did the bible refer to jesus as angel ?, yes! malachi 3:1

Boomark:

We all know who angels are. So i want to know if john the Baptist is an angel, is he?

boomark can u help me to remove 'we' above, because, if you are in agreement with what many of us has been shouting out here ever since of which you will breeze through but still come back to square one asking the same question again again as is one is not having other things to do,

if you really know what an angel is, you dont need to ask the following again;

Boomark;..Can you explain why john was called an angel?

firstly,

Douay-Rheims Bible 1899, is one of the oldest translations, i wasnt born when this translatn was made, and i think 'they'(Douay-Rheims Bible) are in the best position to answer that! you can direct the answer to them.

moreover, what of the other translations? Darby Bible Translation, also rendered jesus 'angel'

Secondly,

you can open another tread on angels, then i will contribute,we are getting more focused and will not continue to go in circles to satisfy an already made-up mind,

you guys will not respond but continue to accuse JWS that they are the ones behing jesus being rendered angel,but [size=14pt]are Jehovahs Witnesses responsible for Darby Bible Translation,or Douay-Rheims Bible 1899? both bibles are not jws! and this further exonerates JWS [/size]

you can read my write up on angels (scroll back), the greek meanings and how they are first spirit beings before beign delegated.

we cant change an already made up mind who is unyielding in the face of bible facts presented.

you think im here to convince you guys? of what relevance or significance? but only for something im doing this, sincere and objective readers, thanks.

truthislight:

what are you not telling me?

"Worship" in legal term and worship in religious term is it the same?

In religious terms(christianity) who determines worship? Pope? No

God does, who then is the pope to determine who should be worship?

How Yahweh will be happy with him for his Redirection of worship to the "seven"

u are try to dodge, i won't engage ur word play, simply give me the meaning of "worship" from the root words.

truthislight:

what are you not telling me?

"Worship" in legal term and worship in religious term is it the same?

In religious terms(christianity) who determines worship? Pope? No

God does, who then is the pope to determine who should be worship?

How Yahweh will be happy with him for his Redirection of worship to the "seven"

common, why wasting your precious time with 'a kindergarten pupil' who does not know his left from right and even moreso continue to remain adamant in ignorance is insanity! common move on pls,dont give what is holy to the p.i.g.s.... just watch,he will reply with insult now,and that is what they are here to do.