truthislight:

^^^
very straight forward.
His companions are other angels.

Well, this is clear enough.

ExAcTlLy bro....!!

frosbel: ^^^^

This small article explains my position .

wow thank for d article, it does clarify what i think abt ur position. it seems ya are very close to arianism just a little stuff also seperates u frm d jw.
Peace

BARRISTERS:
@Boomark,
are you still trying to deny this:

1 thess 4:16....''1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
King James Version (KJV)
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel''

are you denying this glarring proof below?

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8

7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the[b] Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in[/b] [size=18pt]flaming fire[/size] taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Our own view/standard or Gods direction/standard view, which one should we heed?

Now you agreed to use angel for john and jesus after all? im i right? well!

But you have been accusing me of Cherry/Orange pick until you saw as many as possible humans reffered to as 'angel' in revelation above. anyway,its not about winning an argument but the truth need to be told. ithink without prejudice,i can say that you are honest with what you saw, at least judging with the last post.

had it been that you have agreed to the angel defination itself it should not have taken you this far to accept the concept of an angel(spirit/human),[see this link on WIKIPEDIA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel] see the comment about Malachi there.

all i have been asking you since is, was John and Jesus called angels in what sense? As messengers or as flaming fire angels? Thats when i said their must be uniformity.

2thessalonians 1:7-8 you quoted, is it after or before His coming to earth?

Boomark:

You 1 and 2 are not strong enough. How?

Assuming an angel is made lower than the angels(just like Christ was made lower than the angels), sent into the womb of Mary and was brought into the world as a man(human). Would you say he is not capable of delivering mankind? Would you say he is not a man but spirit?

Do you know that john the Baptist is Elijah? Mt 11:14. He didn't come as a full Elijah's but he has to start as a Foetus with the spirit of Elijah.

just watch it befor you teach reincarnation.

Boomark:
Do you know that john the Baptist is Elijah?

^^^

was scary.

Boomark:
He didn't come as a full Elijah's but he has to start as a Foetus with the spirit of Elijah.

Elijah was a human that has lived on earth befor as a human.

Are you saying he did not die?

Elijah and John are two different persons but were propel in similar manner by the spirit of Yahweh.

Lets not accept what is not ok from you because we kept quite.

Just to set the record straight.

Silent can mean consent.

Peace

The bible's stand is that JESUS is GOD ALMIGHTY......very far from just an Angel. Let me start with this: when He was to be proclaimed born by prophet Isaiah in Isaiah9:6, JESUS is the Everlasting Father and note the son being proclaimed as the "father" Paul Explains more to this in his epistle to timothy in Itimothy3:16 he says "great is the mystery of the Existence of God:who was manifested in the flesh, preached and believed............." John also says more about this again in John 1:1-4,14 Jesus was The WORD and the word was GOD(remember Deuteronomy 6:4) in verse 14 john sheds more light to this that when He was to come for the salvation of Men He became Man. Paul now explains fully how He (Jesus)became man in Philippians2:4-8, he put off His (GODLY) glory which HE said he is going back into in John 14 while He was on earth. there are so many biblical proofs, but to wrap it up for minimal words : Jesus HIMSELF said in Luke4:8 that no one should be worshiped except the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, now read Revelation5:1-end, u'll see that all angels bow and worshiped Jesus the Lamb for the redemption of man. finally, oh there are so many proofs! in Isaiah 45:vs 21 or more precisely read the whole chapter when God proclaimed that besides Him there is no other God and Savior, so this means any one refered to as the savior in the bible is God, now check Luke2:9-11, the same LOrd who sent His angels was also born............Oh! which not to stop but;;;;;JESUS IS GOD; your believe to whom He is, is how HE performs in your Life...which is urs: an angel?: kk performs as an angel or as GOD then/

i have to copy this here for frosbel to see quickly anywhere he is. Lol.

frosbel:

No it is not.

Why did Christ have to pre-exist ?

What is strange is that you believe in a sort of incarnation of a spirit into a human body , rather than the simple and factual conception and birthing of Jesus by the Power of the Holy Spirit as a FULL MAN , the Only directly Begotten SON of the Living GOD.

He did not need to pre-exist , this is the confusion of the millennium.

@frosbel.

Can you please define reincarnation from a dictionary for all to see, and then do us the favour of applying it on how Jesus coming down from heaven without dying fits into your reincarnation theory?

Unless you dont know the meaning of the word reincarnation that you are shouting.

We are waiting.

yinka2392: The bible's stand is that JESUS is GOD ALMIGHTY......very far from just an Angel. Let me start with this: when He was to be proclaimed born by prophet Isaiah in Isaiah9:6, JESUS is the Everlasting Father and note the son being proclaimed as the "father" Paul Explains more to this in his epistle to timothy in Itimothy3:16 he says "great is the mystery of the Existence of God:who was manifested in the flesh, preached and believed............." John also says more about this again in John 1:1-4,14 Jesus was The WORD and the word was GOD(remember Deuteronomy 6:4) in verse 14 john sheds more light to this that when He was to come for the salvation of Men He became Man. Paul now explains fully how He (Jesus)became man in Philippians2:4-8, he put off His (GODLY) glory which HE said he is going back into in John 14 while He was on earth. there are so many biblical proofs, but to wrap it up for minimal words : Jesus HIMSELF said in Luke4:8 that no one should be worshiped except the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, now read Revelation5:1-end, u'll see that all angels bow and worshiped Jesus the Lamb for the redemption of man. finally, oh there are so many proofs! in Isaiah 45:vs 21 or more precisely read the whole chapter when God proclaimed that besides Him there is no other God and Savior, so this means any one refered to as the savior in the bible is God, now check Luke2:9-11, the same LOrd who sent His angels was also born............Oh! which not to stop but;;;;;JESUS IS GOD; your believe to whom He is, is how HE performs in your Life...which is urs: an angel?: kk performs as an angel or as GOD then/

Your express a popular viewpoint. Few questions:
1) Do you accept that the Bible cannot contradict itself if it is truly from God?
2) Do you believe that Jesus and God ( the Father, Yahweh) are different persons?
3) Since you believe Jesus is God, is Jesus equal in power, wisdom,etc to Yahweh?

yinka2392: The bible's stand is that JESUS is GOD ALMIGHTY......very far from just an Angel. Let me start with this: when He was to be proclaimed born by prophet Isaiah in Isaiah9:6, JESUS is the Everlasting Father and note the son being proclaimed as the "father" Paul Explains more to this in his epistle to timothy in Itimothy3:16 he says "great is the mystery of the Existence of God:who was manifested in the flesh, preached and believed............." John also says more about this again in John 1:1-4,14 Jesus was The WORD and the word was GOD(remember Deuteronomy 6:4) in verse 14 john sheds more light to this that when He was to come for the salvation of Men He became Man. Paul now explains fully how He (Jesus)became man in Philippians2:4-8, he put off His (GODLY) glory which HE said he is going back into in John 14 while He was on earth. there are so many biblical proofs, but to wrap it up for minimal words : Jesus HIMSELF said in Luke4:8 that no one should be worshiped except the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, now read Revelation5:1-end, u'll see that all angels bow and worshiped Jesus the Lamb for the redemption of man. finally, oh there are so many proofs! in Isaiah 45:vs 21 or more precisely read the whole chapter when God proclaimed that besides Him there is no other God and Savior, so this means any one refered to as the savior in the bible is God, now check Luke2:9-11, the same LOrd who sent His angels was also born............Oh! which not to stop but;;;;;JESUS IS GOD; your believe to whom He is, is how HE performs in your Life...which is urs: an angel?: kk performs as an angel or as GOD then/

Your express a popular viewpoint. Few questions:
1) Do you accept that the Bible cannot contradict itself if it is truly from God?
2) Do you believe that Jesus and God ( the Father, Yahweh) are different persons?
3) Since you believe Jesus is God, is Jesus equal in power, wisdom,etc to Yahweh?

truthislight:

just watch it befor you teach reincarnation.


^^^

was scary.



Elijah was a human that has lived on earth befor as a human.

Are you saying he did not die?

Elijah and John are two different persons but were propel in similar manner by the spirit of Yahweh.

Lets not accept what is not ok from you because we kept quite.

Just to set the record straight.

Silent can mean consent.

Peace

Mt 11:14
New International Version
(©1984)
And if you are willing to
accept it, he is the Elijah
who was to come.

Luke 1:17
New International Version (NIV)
17 And he will go on before the
Lord, in the spirit and power of
Elijah, to turn the hearts of the
parents to their children and the
disobedient to the wisdom of the
righteous—to make ready a people
prepared for the Lord.”

Not everyone is chosen to fulfil the purpose God wants to accomplish. You can correct me if am wrong.

Boomark:

Mt 11:14
New International Version
(©1984)
And if you are willing to
accept it, he is the Elijah
who was to come.

Luke 1:17
New International Version (NIV)
17 And he will go on before the
Lord, in the spirit and power of
Elijah, to turn the hearts of the
parents to their children and the
disobedient to the wisdom of the
righteous—to make ready a people
prepared for the Lord.”

Not everyone is chosen to fulfil the purpose God wants to accomplish. You can correct me if am wrong.

^^^
he came in the role of Elijah.

What exactly are you saying

reincanation is the process of a person that died coming back in the form of another person or thing, and it is a continuous process they say.

Does the bible teach immortality of the soul?

Take note, Jesus christ was not a human on earth befor coming as the massaiah.

TroGunn:

Your express a popular viewpoint. Few questions:
1) Do you accept that the Bible cannot contradict itself if it is truly from God?
2) Do you believe that Jesus and God ( the Father, Yahweh) are different persons?
3) Since you believe Jesus is God, is Jesus equal in power, wisdom,etc to Yahweh?

if you read well and understably all the bible references i have quoted, your questions will be answered correctly. In answer to question no3, its not what i think:note, but what the bible says, in addition, read col.2:9. Once again pls try to read those verse and learn

yinka2392: if you read well and understably all the bible references i have quoted, your questions will be answered correctly. In answer to question no3, its not what i think :note, but what the bible says, in addition, read col.2:9. Once again pls try to read those verse and learn

If you dont think Jesus is equal in Wisdom, power with Yahweh then why do you cliam He is God himself?

yinka2392: The bible's stand is that JESUS is GOD ALMIGHTY......very far from just an Angel

I advise you go through this thread from page 0-26 to full understand what the discussion here.
Thanks.

@boomark, but John the Baptist said He is not Elijah.
They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" He answered, "No."

John 1:20, 25.

plappville: @boomark, but John the Baptist said He is not Elijah.
They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" He answered, "No."

John 1:20, 25.

tell him for me o!

yinka2392: if you read well and understably all the bible references i have quoted, your questions will be answered correctly. In answer to question no3, its not what i think:note, but what the bible says, in addition, read col.2:9. Once again pls try to read those verse and learn

Form what you said, I have to assume the following:

1) That you accept the the Bible cannot contradict itself, being as contradiction relates to confusion and God is not one of confusion. So all the scriptures must tally and provide a whole and consistent view.

On the other two questions,

2) There's more than enough evidence that Jesus and the Almighty God ( his Father Yahweh) are different persons, different entities.

3) There's ample evidence that Jesus is not equal to his Father in power or wisdom. Jesus derives or is given his name, power, wisdom by his Father.

There are many verses and many threads that have discussed this on NL, including this one. You may want to go thru the thread and bring up something new so we don't make this cyclic.

I'll let you ponder over this one scripture ( and there are many others), which corroborates without any doubt points 2 and 3 above.

1 Corinthians 15:25-28
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

25 For He must reign until He hath put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death,
27 for “He hath put all things under His feet.” But when He saith “all things” are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, who did put all things under Him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son Himself also be subject unto Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

TroGunn:

Form what you said, I have to assume the following:

1) That you accept the the Bible cannot contradict itself, being as contradiction relates to confusion and God is not one of confusion. So all the scriptures must tally and provide a whole and consistent view.

On the other two questions,

2) There's more than enough evidence that Jesus and the Almighty God ( his Father Yahweh) are different persons, different entities.

3) There's ample evidence that Jesus is not equal to his Father in power or wisdom. Jesus derives or is given his name, power, wisdom by his Father.

There are many verses and many threads that have discussed this on NL, including this one. You may want to go thru the thread and bring up something new so we don't make this cyclic.

I'll let you ponder over this one scripture ( and there are many others), which corroborates without any doubt points 2 and 3 above.

1 Corinthians 15:25-28
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

25 For He must reign until He hath put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death,
27 for “He hath put all things under His feet.” But when He saith “all things” are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, who did put all things under Him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son Himself also be subject unto Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

well done though.

However, the best way that "Just comers" to the thread can be taken seriously is for them to go to the start of the thread or take a quote he believes is wrong and treat it, and not to just jump in, out of context, and start posting his personal opinion that was not the issues under consideration from the start.

While ignoring how we got hear at the first place.

Best bet, if the formation/foundation is wrong, then, let him attack the foundation by bringing it out and correcting it.
Peace.

And the winner is?

pastormustwacc: And the winner is?

And the winner is pastormustNOTwac......lol.....

This thread isn't about winners.....its about scriptures interpreting scriptures....precept upon precept........

pastormustwacc: And the winner is?

not about winning but about saying it the way the bible puts it?

Cus that ^^^ is very important:

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).


Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. " (John 17:15-17).

The truth = God's word


"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. " (John 17:15-17).

plappville: @boomark, but John the Baptist said He is not Elijah.
They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" He answered, "No."

John 1:20, 25.

Mt 11:14
New International Version
(©1984)
And if you are willing to
accept it, he is the Elijah
who was to come.

Luke 1:17
New International Version (NIV)
17 And he will go on before the
Lord, in the spirit and power of
Elijah, to turn the hearts of the
parents to their children and
the
disobedient to the wisdom of
the
righteous—to make ready a
people
prepared for the Lord.”

place them side by side and study them. John said no, Jesus said yes. John did not even know Christ but Christ knew him.

The bible didn't teach reincarnation but for the will of God to come to pass, it happened the way it happened.

This is getting interesting, of course i know the thread is not about winners and losers.

pastormustwacc: And the winner is?

So tell us your position and what you learnt.

Boomark:

Mt 11:14
New International Version
(©1984)
And if you are willing to
accept it, he is the Elijah
who was to come.

Luke 1:17
New International Version (NIV)
17 And he will go on before the
Lord, in the spirit and power of
Elijah, to turn the hearts of the
parents to their children and

the
disobedient to the wisdom of
the
righteous—to make ready a
people
prepared for the Lord.”

place them side by side and study them. John said no, Jesus said yes. John did not
even know Christ but Christ knew him.

The bible didn't teach reincarnation but for the will of God to come to pass, it happened the way it happened .

You know this yet You have been argueing since morning, ignoring all scriptures that interpreted themselves. Even when they are so plain pointing at Christ as the "Angel of the lord". Is it fun to ignore scripture for arguement sake?

pastormustwacc: This is getting interesting, of course i know the thread is not about winners and losers.

Na you talk, correct man! you now know what the scriptures say as par this thread.

No need to danse around again

@ boomark

boomark:

Mt 11:14
New International Version
(©1984)
And if you are willing to
accept it, he is the Elijah
who was to come.

Luke 1:17
New International Version (NIV)
17 And he will go on before the
Lord,[b] in the spirit and power of
Elijah, to turn the hearts of the
parents to their children and
the
disobedient to the wisdom of
the
righteous—to make ready a
people
prepared for the Lord.”

place them side by side and study them. John said no, Jesus said yes. John did not even know Christ but Christ knew him.

The bible didn't teach reincarnation but for the will of God to come to pass, it happened the way it happened.

is there a hindrance in reading that statement?


he is "the" Elijah
who was to come.


it did not say


he is Elijah who is to come


its like saying


he is the maradona we wanted in our club


^^^

do you understand that?

Not when the same chapter said:


Luke 1:17
New International Version (NIV)
17 And he will go on before the
Lord, in the spirit and power of
Elijah,

who own the power that Elijah made used of

plappville:
You know this yet You have been argueing since morning, ignoring all scriptures that interpreted themselves. Even when they are so plain pointing at Christ as the "Angel of the lord". Is it fun to ignore scripture for arguement sake?

I never said God cannot use anybody for His purpose. My stand is that if God has used anybody, i want to see it in the scripture.

Concerning angel of the covenant and angel of the way clearer , that is just interpreted as messenger for uniformity sake. Rev made it clear...angel of the churches.

truthislight: @ boomark


is there a hindrance in reading that statement?


he is "the" Elijah
who was to come.


it did not say


he is Elijah who is to come


its like saying


he is the maradona we wanted in our club


^^^

do you understand that?

Not when the same chapter said:


Luke 1:17
New International Version (NIV)
17 And he will go on before the
Lord, in the spirit and power of
Elijah,

who own the power that Elijah made used of

Ok.

.

^^^

good to know that you are well.

truthislight: ^^^

good to know that you are well.

I pray u and i will be alive when watchtower will give u 'a new light' on dis matter. They hav done it before, they r doing it now and dey will do it again.

I hope u wont feel embarrasd wen they tell u dat Jesus is anoda person entirely with some new 'research' and inconsistent quotes frm the scriptures to bring more confusion to ur understanding of the scriptures. U had better do ur personal study of d scriptures and stop usin watchtower magazines as a guide to interpreting the sciptures.

It is highly misleading, i knw u wont take dat cos u r already too deep to see dem do wrong or misinterprete bible verses.

Hmmm...