Lol. . . Bowomolo, I understand what you're trying to do here. . .believe me, I do but have got to be a lot more choosy with the contradictions you posts, if you don't be dismissed as just another nitpicker with a lot of time on his hands.

i see no reason why i should be more choosy, for what. u still haven't anwered my question, why does God need to redefines the laws he/she/it created. God doesn't make mistakes and his laws should be timeless.

et's ignore the possibility that Daniel's name could also be Chileab because one person have two names is just too out there for the mind to comprehend

so how do u know daniel's name is also chileab?? it's not a contradiction if it can be explained.


Generations from David to the Babylonian Captivity

1 Chronicles 3:10-16

Solomon
Rehoboam
Abia
Asa
Jehoshaphat
Joram
Ahaziah
Joash
Amaziah
Azariah
Jotham
Ahaz
Hezekiah
Manasseh
Amon
Josiah
Jehoiakim
Jeconiah


Matthew 1:6-11

Solomon
Rehoboam
Abijah
Asa
Jehoshaphat
Jehoram
Uzziah
-
-
-
Jotham
Ahaz
Hezekiah
Manasseh
Amon
Josiah
-
Jeconiah

bawomolo:

i see no reason why i should be more choosy, for what. u still haven't anwered my question, why does God need to redefines the laws he/she/it created. God doesn't make mistakes and his laws should be timeless.

so how do u know daniel's name is also chileab?? it's not a contradiction if it can be explained.


Generations from David to the Babylonian Captivity

1 Chronicles 3:10-16

Solomon
Rehoboam
Abia
Asa
Jehoshaphat
Joram
Ahaziah
Joash
Amaziah
Azariah
Jotham
Ahaz
Hezekiah
Manasseh
Amon
Josiah
Jehoiakim
Jeconiah


Matthew 1:6-11

Solomon
Rehoboam
Abijah
Asa
Jehoshaphat
Jehoram
Uzziah
-
-
-
Jotham
Ahaz
Hezekiah
Manasseh
Amon
Josiah
-
Jeconiah

Not so fast sparky. . .I assume you are a man of philosophy and must be aware of a little something called “Burden of Proof”. Since it’s you who proposes that the Bible is full of contradictions, it is up to you not me to prove it. I, as someone who opposes your argument, have given you a reasonable explanation and that’s as far as I need to take it and then YOU show me proof that my reasonable explanation does not hold water.

Since it’s Sunday and I’m in a generous mood. . .I’ll demonstrate how the above works using the Sons’ of David. Here we go. . .
1) Both Account were written by men
2) Both accounts have the number of children,
3) Both Accounts have the same order of birth…
4) Both accounts have same spellings for all the other names

4 our of a possibly 5!! We can say with in reason that Daniel IS Chileab. Now you show me proof that my reasonable explanation does not hold water


I'll give you the following as reasonable explanations of your contradictions

1) The Bible was not written by GOD but by men.

2) These men were INSPIRED not DICTATED TO by God

3) Since man is not a perfect being, it’s only reasonable that there will be mistakes, misrepresentations. . .hence the need to correct some things

4) There are over 60 books in the Bible written in over 6 styles of writing (Prose, Poetry, Proverbs, History etc) by 40 people from different walks of lives (from Kings, to tax collectors, to Fishermen) with different levels of understanding.

5) The Bible was originally written in Hebrew and Greek and was later translated into English. It is reasonable to say some things were either lost or added in translation. Also keep in mind that the translation was not done by one person in one sitting.

6) Contradictory is does not always mean something is wrong. . .as evidenced by my lovely story of being stalked in one of my previous post.

Now I am throwing down the gauntlet, Bowomolo. . .Prove to me that my reasonable explanations ain't so reasonable.

Please don’t come at me with more lists. . .I get the gist.

mukina2:

your post where?

make your claims but please let it be the truth

i only locked one thread of urs and cleaned out one topic and that was not today.

** if you feel someone posted something that you do not like, you can always use report to moderator**

Let's call a spade a spade, it is obvious that there is partiality running amok in this section. A moderator moderates efficiently by having a global point of view. . .not one sided. The measure of what would be deemed as offensive comment or post should not rest only on WHO makes it.

Ask yourself this. . .Have you being fair in the way you've moderated? If you are honest, you'll see the answer is no.

nwando:

as usual my posts asking why others are allowed to make silly posts of Christianity have been deleted while the partial moderator lets others run their mouths .
Taliban on nairaland

Maybe if you didn't say things like Taliban on nairaland. . .the powers that be of Nairaland might be inclined to give you an audience. Just sayin'

4 our of a possibly 5!! We can say with in reason that Daniel IS Chileab. Now you show me proof that my reasonable explanation does not hold water

to be honest, i really don't whether they are same person, so the answer is up for grabs. u have to wonder why the writers of the bible would give details that could be confusing.

1) The Bible was not written by GOD but by men.

does that diminish the value of the bible down. i mean the bible is basically just another book.

2) These men were INSPIRED not DICTATED TO by God

what exactly is the difference, does this mean we can pick and choose what bible passages are credible?? this is a strange statement by u, since most people consider the bible to be word of God.

3) Since man is not a perfect being, it’s only reasonable that there will be mistakes, misrepresentations. . .hence the need to correct some things

it doesn't seem people are willing to correct the bible since it has been deemed PERFECT by most christian denominations.

5) The Bible was originally written in Hebrew and Greek and was later translated into English. It is reasonable to say some things were either lost or added in translation. Also keep in mind that the translation was not done by one person in one sitting.

actually some of the these contradictions are also found in the greek and hebrew manuscripts(some still missing by the way), for example in the story of elhanan

Some liberal scholars, believing Elhanan son of Jair was someone other than David, consider the biblical account to be in contradiction of itself in who it claims killed Goliath. They argue that the text in Samuel represents the original form of the story, and that the victory over Goliath was later credited to David in order to enhance his reputation.

it seems the bible has been reworked, what about the gnostic gospels found in egypt, why aren't they part of the bible?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic_Gospels

6) Contradictory is does not always mean something is wrong. . .as evidenced by my lovely story of being stalked in one of my previous post.

actually contradiction means conflicting statements by one entity. there are many instances of conflicting statements in the bible.

4) There are over 60 books in the Bible written in over 6 styles of writing (Prose, Poetry, Proverbs, History etc) by 40 people from different walks of lives (from Kings, to tax collectors, to Fishermen) with different levels of understanding.

i don't think bible literalists treat these books with different levels of understanding, this also brings up the question of which books should be in the bible since catholics,mormons, protestants etc have different bibles. there is obviously no consensus on the "level of" understand.

Please don’t come at me with more lists. . .I get the gist.

they weren't meant for u, just continuing my series

Let's call a spade a spade, it is obvious that there is partiality running amok in this section. A moderator moderates efficiently by having a global point of view. . .not one sided. The measure of what would be deemed as offensive comment or post should not rest only on WHO makes it.

true seems olabowale, frizy and co are given a free ride

This chicago bull fella, i understand your plight. But these things are very stale in that they have been established as typo errors. So why knock ur engine on a meaningless and futile exercise. However some of your so-called contradictions stem from your inability to understand the spiritual apart from the ones that are typos.

cgift:

This chicago bull fella, i understand your plight. But these things are very stale in that they have been established as typo errors. So why knock your engine on a meaningless and futile exercise. However some of your so-called contradictions stem from your inability to understand the spiritual apart from the ones that are typos.

i doubt bible literalists take them as typos. how authentic is the bible as the word of "God" if it has all this errors laying around. there's also issues about the archaeological or historical relevance of the bible.

bawomolo:

i doubt bible literalists take them as typos. how authentic is the bible as the word of "God" if it has all this errors laying around.

I think the crucial thing here is whether or not one takes the bible literally and upholds it as the utmost authority on Truth and God's Will. If this is the case then it becomes impossible to reconcile this with the errors and contradictions found in the bible.

@Nwando

Your observation is very correct. As for me, I laughed when I discovered that Seun and his Aisha deleted my posts as they are likely to delete this too but I am not bothered afterall it is their forum

Pastor AIO:

I think the crucial thing here is whether or not one takes the bible literally and upholds it as the utmost authority on Truth and God's Will. If this is the case then it becomes impossible to reconcile this with the errors and contradictions found in the bible.

Errors come through several ways. While copying form the originally manuscripts to anoter platform, during translations, human, machine errors, and etc. So what matters most here is the context say if it reports 22 in one place and then 42 in another, the nost important conclusion to draw is that

1) The incident/event being narrated by one writer is corroborated by another
2) That there is a certain minimum number of people that witnessed the event at that point in time.
3) Therefore, that the significance of the event should be seen rather than dwell on trivialities.

shikena!

bawomolo:

i doubt bible literalists take them as typos. how authentic is the bible as the word of "God" if it has all this errors laying around. there's also issues about the archaeological or historical relevance of the bible.

what archaeological or historical issues have you got this time boy?

Yet I think that when one section of the bible tells me that Noah took the animals into the ark in pairs and then another section tells me that in fact he took each species in in seven pairs, while it might be easier to dismiss the discrepancy as a triviality, something tells me that there is something being communicated in code by the writer who specifies 7 pairs. If I dismiss it as trivial then I'll be missing something quite important.

thank u pastor, there are a few more too like the date some battles in the bible happened

bawomolo:

thank u pastor, there are a few more too like the date some battles in the bible happened

Well it is a common fact that dates, periods of times, and various numbers in the bible are highly symbolic. Not just in prophecy but also in the narration of historical events. Once the numbers start to be taken literally then you will face problems because a pair of goats contradicts 7 pairs of goats. It can only be one or the other.

It is a known fact that the writers of the bible and also the interpreters of scriptures always used codes and symbolisms. It was just a part of the judaic custom. Names were numbers etc. For instance when the number of the beast is the human number, 666, John expected his readers to know exactly what he was talking about.

Pastor AIO:

Yet I think that when one section of the bible tells me that Noah took the animals into the ark in pairs and then another section tells me that in fact he took each species in in seven pairs, while it might be easier to dismiss the discrepancy as a triviality, something tells me that there is something being communicated in code by the writer who specifies 7 pairs. If I dismiss it as trivial then I'll be missing something quite important.

You make sense sir. indeed one scripture is a more elaborate repreentation of anothetr one but these guys will not be patient enough to see that. They will immediately label it an error when in actual fact one might be explaining the other in details.

However, for certain issues like discrepancies in number e.g., where it has it in one place the 20 people met Jesus and in another say 10 people, it could be that one writer counted only a certain kind of people and the other write another kind. One could have counted only men and the other everybody without explicitly saying so. Moreso, since some of them did not write their experiences on the spot, there is room for a margin of error as it relates to number narrations as two people will definately report different numbers for even the same event they were both party to!

Well it is a common fact that dates, periods of times, and various numbers in the bible are highly symbolic. Not just in prophecy but also in the narration of historical events. Once the numbers start to be taken literally then you will face problems because a pair of goats contradicts 7 pairs of goats. It can only be one or the other.

oh really, then how is symbolic dates differentiated from accurate dates. it seems the bible needs to be divided into a fiction and non-fiction section

Ah, the list continues I see. . . your doggedness is admirable, I’ll say that much.

I finally read the entire thread (I confess, I usually just skip to the last page on a thread that is over 4 pages. What can I say. . .I’m lazy) and now I understand that you aren’t really interested in an explanation for the “contradictions” you post. It is one way traffic for you, isn’t it? I get it now and that got me thinking about your mindset. Did a little googling and saw the following. . .

Skeptic's Instructions for Reading the Bible
•Always read it completely literally in isolation and never take into account the social, historical, literary and cultural context in which it was written.

•Have a wrong concept of how God should have done things and then throw the rattle out of the pram when he does things differently - this is otherwise known as setting up a straw man and then knocking him down.

•Assume that God dictated it rather than using men in the social, historical and cultural context of the day.

•If there is a difficult passage never consult a commentary written by someone who understands the social, historical, literary and cultural context.

•Never compare scripture with scripture to find the meaning of difficult texts

•Never use different bible versions, never check out the Greek or Hebrew.

•Always assume that if you cannot understand something then it cannot ever be true.

•Ignore the fact of progressive revelation

•Never try to understand the human-divine nature of Jesus or the Trinity; never consult a theologian who can explain these difficult things.

It fits you to a T doesn’t it? Honestly, if all students can follow instructions the way you do . . .the world will be a better place. Anyhoo. . .enjoy your thread (not that I need to tell you that, right?)

Oh…here’s something else I found.

Mistakes the critics make by Norman Geisler.

Norman Geisler in 'When Critics Ask' says: The Bible is without mistake, but the critics are not. All their allegations of error in the Bible are based on some error of their own. Their mistakes fall into the following main categories.


1.Assuming that the unexplained is not explainable

2.Presuming the Bible guilty until proven innocent

3.Confusing our fallible interpretations with God's infallible revelation

4.Failing to understand the context of the passage.

5.Neglecting to interpret difficult passages in the light of clear ones

6.Basing a teaching on an obscure passage

7.Forgetting that the Bible is a human book with human characteristics

8.Assuming that a partial report is a false report

9.Demanding that NT citations of the OT always be exact quotations

10.Assuming that divergent accounts are false ones

11.Presuming that the Bible approves of all its records

12.Forgetting that the Bible uses non-technical, everyday language

13.Assuming that round numbers are false

14.Neglecting to note that the bible uses different literary devices

15.Forgetting that only the original text, not every copy of scripture, is without error

16.Confusing general statements with universal ones

17.Forgetting that latter revelation supersedes previous revelation

I understand that you aren’t really interested in an explanation for the “contradictions” you post

i believe i admitted 4him explained one of the contradictions in this thread. if u can explain some of them, then go for it. no biggie

It fits you to a T doesn’t it? Honestly, if all students can follow instructions the way you do . . .the world will be a better place. Anyhoo. . .enjoy your thread (not that I need to tell you that, right?)

well seems u have nothing to contribute other than attacks on my personal character.

11.Presuming that the Bible approves of all its records

the bible is the word of God, and the words of his anointed ones re sanctified.

Come on. . .attack your personal Character? Pls read through my posts and tell me how I did that.

Not agreeing with you does not mean I have anything personal against you.

It fits you to a T doesn’t it?

what's this supposed to me, rather than try to explain the contradictions, u go on some rant about how u magically deciphered skeptics. seems like ad hominem to me

Lol. . .rant? Honestly, to go a rant would mean I am emotionally invested in this and that couldn't be furthest from the truth.

The little bit about "fitting you to a T" was not meant to be taken as an insult. You are a skeptic of the Bible and since I've never met one. . .at least not one who has been vocal about it as you are, I found you intriguing, which is why I did the googling thingy and when I saw the write up on skeptics, it made sense. That's all there is to it. Nothing more, nothing less. . .I promise you however, for peace sake, I apologise for any offense I may have caused. God knows the last thing I want is to be at war on the religion section.

. . .And I did try to explain the contradictions.

Just wanted to add that.

hey no problem then, anyway contribute as much u can

bawomolo:

hey no problem then, anyway contribute as much u can

Lol. . .nah, I'm cool. I'll just go back to lurking and reading. . .but thanks for the invite.

So which is it. . .773, 708, 312, 847, 630? I'm thinking one of the 1st three. . .most naijas I know don't do 847 & 630.

oh it's the 708. are u from around the area.


Were the Israelites to spare the trees in the countries they invaded?

Deuteronomy 20:19
When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees,

2 Kings 3:19
And ye shall smite every fenced city, and every choice city, and shall fell every good tree,

bawomolo:

oh it's the 708. are u from around the area.


Were the Israelites to spare the trees in the countries they invaded?

Deuteronomy 20:19
When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees,

2 Kings 3:19
And ye shall smite every fenced city, and every choice city, and shall fell every good tree,

Yep. Weird, hun?. . . _{or am I the only one still amazed about how small the world has gotten thanks to the internet?}

One last question on these contradictions ^{(I promise)} . . .how many of them are there?

Ok , bawomolo, I'll try to help u sort out your concerns as often as I can.

bawomolo:

oh it's the 708. are u from around the area.


Were the Israelites to spare the trees in the countries they invaded?

Deuteronomy 20:19
When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees,

2 Kings 3:19
And ye shall smite every fenced city, and every choice city, and shall fell every good tree,

The Duet 20:19 statement is an instruction for possesing the promised land.

Having been entrenched in the land, the 2Kings3:19 statement is an example of a case by case instruction on what to do in a particular situation.

Note: Specific instructions are different from Timeless Guidelines.

Sisikill:

Yep. Weird, hun?. . . _{or am I the only one still amazed about how small the world has gotten thanks to the internet?}

One last question on these contradictions ^{(I promise)} . . .how many of them are there?

lol what area of chicago.

oh there are about 300-600 contradictions depending on which expert u ask. varies

Note: Specific instructions are different from Timeless Guidelines.

does that mean certain guidelines can be broken??

bawomolo:

lol what area of chicago.

oh there are about 300-600 contradictions depending on which expert u ask. varies

60430. . .You?


300 to 600?!!! Yikes!

Well on second thoughts, it's not that surprising since it's verse by verse. Okay, looking forward to reading more.

oh i see u must stay on the south side, 60419 over here


ON RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD

", he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. " -- Job 7:9

", the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth, " -- John 5:28-29

bawomolo:

oh i see u must stay on the south side, 60419 over here


ON RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD

", he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. " -- Job 7:9

", the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth, " -- John 5:28-29

Lol. . .at last! I can say that you are absolutely positively wrong about something. It’s not on the south side, try again.

I lived on Sunset in 60419 for like 5yrs. . ._{weirder and weirder, hun? I know!}


Job 7-9
Job is complaining to God. . .I believe the word used is Remonstrating. I don’t think we need to go into why he was doing that. And if you really think about it, It’s not surprising that those words came out Job’s mouth, look what he went through. . .

Another thing, although  Job loved, served and obeyed God, he really didn’t have a deep understanding of who God is (was?). I mean the poor guy thought God caused his troubles and that God was treating him unfairly. Not knowing God is also the reason he had the wrong ideas about death. . .he thought man was like clouds, they’d simply disappear. He even believed God couldn’t see the dead. So you see, these are JOB’S THOUGHTS, HIS IDEAS, HIS FEELINGS. (Now you’re gonna come back and say, "Oh yeah. . .but didn’t God inspire all the books in the bible?” So let me say upfront. . . I don’t have an answer. . Yet)

John 5: 28 -29
Jesus making it known to all that God is full of compassion & Mercy and through him (Jesus) mankind is redeemed (going back to the ever so popular John 3:16).

This is also supported in Ephesians 2. . .
1[i]. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus[/i].

It’s all about understanding the verses in CONTEXT.


And before you say it, I will. . .so much for lurking and reading, right? To be quite honest, this is been really good, made me study the Bible more.

hmm south suburbs in the house, pretty shocking. not many illinois peeps on this board.

not a bad explanation for the job thing. i guess we have to keep in mind the authors of the passages while critiquing(sp) the bible.


Are the laws of the Old Testament still binding?

Leviticus 23:14,21,31
It shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations.

1 Chronicles 16:15
Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations , an everlasting covenant.

Galatians 3:24-25
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law.