frosbel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrpW6Xctg8Q


Watch this video by David Wilkerson on false manifestations.

Waoohh....the precher cried, what a love Showed! the very first mockery video in this thread made me felt real sad too.

How can a congregation be laughing out loud, falling on each other having nothing edifying and yet some believe they were filled with the Holy Ghost.

It hurts to see such a video. We know that no one is perfect, but some socalled MOG have devilish aims, they are out to mock God.

WOLVES...... in sheep's clothing!

frosbel:

"As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." - Romans 2:24

We are seeing it already...

Objectively,What I have to point out here is our Nigerian nature where we tend to accept everything and never question anything is what is coming into play here.We are just to afraid to criticize anything. We leave the corrupt government officials to God, we leave the false prophets to God, but we subject the petty thieves to mob actions. Are all Christians not men of God,everyone who has come forward to claim he was called into the ministry by God, is it not his words we are taking for it? Did any of us witness this call? So why then do people get all defensive when unchristian practices are exhibited by these preachers? How do you even tell if anyone of them is called by God? Is it by follower-ship or number of miracles/signs and wonders performed/exhibited? I'm not a fan of name calling as confrontations and controversies would lead to division and strife so I really would not support the fact that persons are being attacked here. Sadly, the video had to be put up for us to see. The OP may not have intended to directly attack these preachers as he didn't make the video, but if he had come to say things like this happen in churches, I would not have imagined he was telling the truth, not to talk of believing him.How can "pucky poo" be speaking in tongues? Why should anyone remember what He/She had said under the influence of the spirit? Personally I can only remember things I've read,seen or rehearsed.So many things have crept into the church over time and they have become widely accepted as the norm. The truth is most people here actually have preachers they look up to and would defend every action of theirs to their grave because they are "followers of men". I believe as a Christian the day you know you have equal access to God and opportunity to make Heaven as any MOG, that is the day you have put your Christian life in perspective.

I remember growing up listening to a preacher who usually introduce himself as "your favorite TV pastor" <------ Such person I believe is into showbiz and not preaching the gospel.

We should give this some thought as Christrians
Qualification of false Shepherds

1. Deut.18:22 If a proclamation is made in the name of the LORD does not come true you have a False Prophet!

2. Titus1:11 They do what they do for the sake of dishonest gain. They love money and you have a False Shepherd!

3. 2 Jn.1:9 They love the spotlight and crave the attention inserting their name for recognition at every opportunity and being in control of a ministry above accountability. They will isolate their flock away from others who know the truth and will watch every move they make, escorting them back to their side of the street, so to speak! You have a False Shepherd!

4. 1Tim.6:4 They divert attention away from the main issues surrounding their sin by stirring up evil suspicions against those who would expose them. The motive is to keep the money flowing into their ministry. BINGO! You have another False Shepherd!

5. Rev.2:2 They have no problem with telling lies of all sizes saying over and over that they are Christians and even signing documents Mr. So and So (a Christian Man) and are not! LIARS! Just another False Shepherd.

6. 2Cor.11:14 They dress up fine, smell good, smile a lot, masquerading as a servant of righteousness. Their end will be what they deserve!


We have 1 Tim 3 and Titus1 to find what a good shepherd is like and future articles will expound those and other verses.
We thank James R. Steinle for his writings on false shepherds and its impact on this article!

1Thes.5:21 “prove all things, hold fast to that which is good”

http://falseshepherds.com/

^^^
I understand where most of them are coming from, it's called the fear of challenging tradition and the MEN behind it.

@ Ezme
I rily. Don't av a problem with bro frosbel uploading the video afterall he didn't make it, but I have a big. Problem with his approach.
Its ok to upload the video and put it side by side with the word to show us where they got it wrong, but to call the people names(fake charlatans)like he did n discredit their ministries is just plain wrong.

I have been blessed at one point or the other by some of this ministries(Hagin,Copeland,Hinn) but in recent time I started questioning quite a number of their teachings putting them side by side with d word n I found out some weren't accurate and some others were. Now I didn't throw away the baby with the bathwater by discrediting this ministries, I just took the truth and left out the rest.
Personally I don't believe in following any MOG blindly, I believe in following the word. MOGs r human, they make mistakes too...

In Nigeria, there quite a number of practices and doctrines in churches today that don't line up with the word yet it still doesn't mean the preachers are charlatans and scammers. Calling them names would be going to far.

I watched the full video again and honestly my spirit didn't agree with a number of things, but I won't discredit this ministries, I don't think its in my place to do that, rather I would point out wats wrong by putting it side by side with the word. Now, I have not done a personal study on manifestations yet so I would rather stay mute.

You gave a good list of qualificatn of false shepherds but I don't think this video gives enough proof that any of this preachers are false.

ezme: Objectively[b],What I have to point out here is our Nigerian nature where we tend to accept everything and never question anything is what is coming into play here.We are just to afraid to criticize anything.[/b] We leave the corrupt government officials to God, we leave the false prophets to God, but we subject the petty thieves to mob actions. Are all Christians not men of God,everyone who has come forward to claim he was called into the ministry by God, is it not his words we are taking for it? Did any of us witness this call? So why then do people get all defensive when unchristian practices are exhibited by these preachers? How do you even tell if anyone of them is called by God? Is it by follower-ship or number of miracles/signs and wonders performed/exhibited? I'm not a fan of name calling as confrontations and controversies would lead to division and strife so I really would not support the fact that persons are being attacked here. Sadly, the video had to be put up for us to see. The OP may not have intended to directly attack these preachers as he didn't make the video, but if he had come to say things like this happen in churches, I would not have imagined he was telling the truth, not to talk of believing him.How can "pucky poo" be speaking in tongues? Why should anyone remember what He/She had said under the influence of the spirit? Personally I can only remember things I've read,seen or rehearsed.So many things have crept into the church over time and they have become widely accepted as the norm. The truth is most people here actually have preachers they look up to and would defend every action of theirs to their grave because they are "followers of men". I believe as a Christian the day you know you have equal access to God and opportunity to make Heaven as any MOG, that is the day you have put your Christian life in perspective.

I remember growing up listening to a preacher who usually introduce himself as "your favorite TV pastor" <------ Such person I believe is into showbiz and not preaching the gospel.

We should give this some thought as Christrians
Qualification of false Shepherds

1. Deut.18:22 If a proclamation is made in the name of the LORD does not come true you have a False Prophet!

2. Titus1:11 They do what they do for the sake of dishonest gain. They love money and you have a False Shepherd!

3. 2 Jn.1:9 They love the spotlight and crave the attention inserting their name for recognition at every opportunity and being in control of a ministry above accountability. They will isolate their flock away from others who know the truth and will watch every move they make, escorting them back to their side of the street, so to speak! You have a False Shepherd!

4. 1Tim.6:4 They divert attention away from the main issues surrounding their sin by stirring up evil suspicions against those who would expose them. The motive is to keep the money flowing into their ministry. BINGO! You have another False Shepherd!

5. Rev.2:2 They have no problem with telling lies of all sizes saying over and over that they are Christians and even signing documents Mr. So and So (a Christian Man) and are not! LIARS! Just another False Shepherd.

6. 2Cor.11:14 They dress up fine, smell good, smile a lot, masquerading as a servant of righteousness. Their end will be what they deserve!


We have 1 Tim 3 and Titus1 to find what a good shepherd is like and future articles will expound those and other verses.
We thank James R. Steinle for his writings on false shepherds and its impact on this article!

1Thes.5:21 “prove all things, hold fast to that which is good”

http://falseshepherds.com/

I don't agree with you on the emboldened. have u asked yourself why there are so many breakaways in churches today(Nigeria has the largest number of denominational churches worldwide, you can prove me wrong) .these churches started as home fellowship as a result of doctrines they disagreed with in their former churches. or how do you think martin Luther broke away from the Catholics to start the protestant movement. in souer's history of the christian church volume 3, p.206, the following statement is found: "Dr. Martin Luther was a prophet, evangelist, speaker in tongues and interpreter, in one person, endowed with all the gifts of the HOLY SPIRIT". still many people called martin luther the reformer a false prophet and a blasphemer even till date. Personally i criticism MOGs even Tb. Joshua..but does that alter the fact that he doesn't have large followers of believers even here in nairaland? no. and there is nothing wrong in a father you look up to..was Apostle Paul not a MAN? LOOK AT WHAT HE SAID IN 1 COR 11:1
New International Version (©1984)
Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.


New Living Translation (©2007)
And you should imitate me, just as I imitate Christ.



English Standard Version (©2001)
Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.



New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.



Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Imitate me, as I also imitate Christ.



International Standard Version (©2012)
Imitate me, as I do the Messiah.



King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.



Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Imitate me just as I also do The Messiah.


GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Imitate me as I imitate Christ.



King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Be followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.


American King James Version
Be you followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.


American Standard Version
Be ye imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ.


Douay-Rheims Bible
BE ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ.

we follow men who follow CHRIST my bro.. ofcos we know there are charlatans out there...JESUS said you know them by their fruits...AND I CAN BOLDLY TELL YOU(I DON'T KNOW ABOUT OTHER MINISTERS IN THE VIDEO THAT FROSBEL DISPLAYED)WITH ALL HUMILITY MY CONSCIENCE BEARING ME WITNESS IN THE HOLY GHOST THAT KENNETH HAGIN OF BLESSED MEMORY IS NOT A FALSE PROPHET. THIS IS NOT ABOUT DEFENDING HAGIN BUT ABOUT SPEAKING THE TRUTH WHERE YOU SEE DECEPTIONS AND LIES PERPETRATED BY ENEMIES OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

wordthots: @ Ezme
I rily. Don't av a problem with bro frosbel uploading the video afterall he didn't make it, but I have a big. Problem with his approach.
Its ok to upload the video and put it side by side with the word to show us where they got it wrong, but to call the people names(fake charlatans)like he did n discredit their ministries is just plain wrong.

I have been blessed at one point or the other by some of this ministries(Hagin,Copeland,Hinn) but in recent time I started questioning quite a number of their teachings putting them side by side with d word n I found out some weren't accurate and some others were. Now I didn't throw away the baby with the bathwater by discrediting this ministries, I just took the truth and left out the rest.
Personally I don't believe in following any MOG blindly, I believe in following the word. MOGs r human, they make mistakes too...

In Nigeria, there quite a number of practices and doctrines in churches today that don't line up with the word yet it still doesn't mean the preachers are charlatans and scammers. Calling them names would be going to far.

I watched the full video again and honestly my spirit didn't agree with a number of things, but I won't discredit this ministries, I don't think its in my place to do that, rather I would point out wats wrong by putting it side by side with the word. Now, I have not done a personal study on manifestations yet so I would rather stay mute.

You gave a good list of qualificatn of false shepherds but I don't think this video gives enough proof that any of this preachers are false.

You are wrong to think that theses guys should not be condemned because there are some lies in their truth. Remember how the devil operates by mixing a little lie with truth just as he did with Eve. The bible tells us that Satan disguises himself as an angel of light to deceive people and he does this by being partially truthful. would you not expect his disciples, those whom jesus would tell on that day that 'go away from me i never knew you' to also use disguise?
My friend, do not be naive, satan is a counterfeiter, so he will always try to present himself as the genuine article. God's word is truth, adding a little leaven to it is enough to ferment the whole lump that is why i will advise you to be particularly practices that don't align with the word of God, had Adam and Eve followed the word of God to the letter as Jesus did the world would never have descend into chaos.

frosbel: ^^^
I understand where most of them are coming from, it's called the fear of challenging tradition and the MEN behind it.

you don't understand and know NADA.. UR FASLEHOOD KEEPS GROWING AND LEAPING IN BOUNDS DAY BY DAY..UR CORRUPTED KNOWLEDGE IS EXPOSED FOR ALL TO SEE.

dorox:

You are wrong to think that theses guys should not be condemned because there are some lies in their truth. Remember how the devil operates by mixing a little lie with truth just as he did with Eve. The bible tells us that Satan disguises himself as an angel of light to deceive people and he does this by being partially truthful. would you not expect his disciples, those whom jesus would tell on that day that 'go away from me i never knew you' to also use disguise?
My friend, do not be naive, satan is a counterfeiter, so he will always try to present himself as the genuine article. God's word is truth, adding a little leaven to it is enough to ferment the whole lump that is why i will advise you to be particularly practices that don't align with the word of God, had Adam and Eve followed the word of God to the letter as Jesus did the world would never have descend into chaos.

have you followed..i mean really followed kenneth hagins teachings and messages...don't be hasty to judge and condemn..am not talking about the funny video frobel pasted hia from a pagan website(the video might be lies and deception to fool u)..satan can also make a mockery and attacks the church..destruction can start from within not outside just like you are condemning a ministry that has been a tremendous blessing to thousands of people.. A video like this can be monitored and manipulated to fool you..are u there in the meetings? How do u know it is real? Thank God for technology anything is possible these days..i wonder why people can be fooled like this.

Bidam: have you followed..i mean really followed kenneth hagins teachings and messages...don't be hasty to judge and condemn..am not talking about the funny video frobel pasted hia from a pagan website(the video might be lies and deception to fool u)..satan can also make a mockery and attacks the church..destruction can start from within not outside just like you are condemning a ministry that has been a tremendous blessing to thousands of people.. A video like this can be monitored and manipulated to fool you..are u there in the meetings? How do u know it is real? Thank God for technology anything is possible these days..i wonder why people can be fooled like this.

you are so deceived , it's unreal.

frosbel:

you are so deceived , it's unreal.

abegi..try and be spiritually sensible..we re not all deceived like you

Bidam: abegi..try and be spiritually sensible..we re not all deceived like you

I don't follow MEN who lead congregations to howl like wolves , bark like dogs and crawl on all fours like the beasts of the field, do you ?

frosbel:

I don't follow MEN who lead congregations to howl like wolves , bark like dogs and crawl on all fours like the beasts of the field, do you ?

point noted..i don't either...shall we end this debate and talk more about Jesus Christ?

@wordthots, i loved all your mature and sincere write ups.

I must confess when God first opened my eyes to the bondage i was under in the WOF movement.i was livid with rage and started enjoying forums where the MOG's of these ministries were bashed verbally of course continually.It was thrilling to show off my knowledge of the bible but the truth is i too had started serving myself and not God.most times when we engage in these discussions,we're more keen to show how biblically aware we are than to help Christians discover the truth and this makes us no different than the MOG's we castigate.

@frosbel,i have always been a fan of your threads since i discovered the tithe and seed faith fraud before i registered on nairaland but lately,i honestly feel you're doing damage to the body of Christ.You can still pass the message across without the know it all posture.I don't agree with a lot of the things joagbaje expounds on nairaland but i can't fault his respectful manner of approach.pls the aim should be getting christians to know the truth,not bringing down a 'MOG'.The lies we see in Christendom are thing we should weep over not gloat.

I will never defend a denomination or MOG because there are no titles like that in the kingdom of God according to the bible.

God bless us all.

Candour: @wordthots, i loved all your mature and sincere write ups.

I must confess when God first opened my eyes to the bondage i was under in the WOF movement.i was livid with rage and started enjoying forums where the MOG's of these ministries were bashed verbally of course continually.It was thrilling to show off my knowledge of the bible but the truth is i too had started serving myself and not God.most times when we engage in these discussions,we're more keen to show how biblically aware we are than to help Christians discover the truth and this makes us no different than the MOG's we castigate.

@frosbel,i have always been a fan of your threads since i discovered the tithe and seed faith fraud before i registered on nairaland but lately,i honestly feel you're doing damage to the body of Christ.You can still pass the message across without the know it all posture.I don't agree with a lot of the things joagbaje expounds on nairaland but i can't fault his respectful manner of approach.pls the aim should be getting christians to know the truth,not bringing down a 'MOG'.The lies we see in Christendom are thing we should weep over not gloat.

I will never defend a denomination or MOG because there are no titles like that in the kingdom of God according to the bible.

God bless us all.

@ the emboldened freewill and subject to debate.

@ Bidam, I don't think frosbel is goin to backdown n listen to you.
My prayer is that the Holy spirit convicts him before he does any damage to the body of christ.
As believers its very essential to walk in love even when pointing out to things we think are wrong.

Bidam: have you followed..i mean really followed kenneth hagins teachings and messages...don't be hasty to judge and condemn..

This man is not perfect, even though he teaches some truth!

am not talking about the funny video frobel pasted hia from a pagan website(the video might be lies and deception to fool u)

So you call that funny video?
Holy .ghost has not started to make people look funny uh?

.satan can also make a mockery and attacks the church..destruction can start from within not outside just like you are condemning a ministry that has been a tremendous blessing to thousands of people.. A video like this can be monitored and manipulated to fool you..are u there in the meetings? How do u know it is real? Thank God for technology anything is possible these days..i wonder why people can be fooled like this.

No one is fooled here, the video showed it all...please stop defending evil manipulations!

@ Bidam, I don't think frosbel is goin to backdown n listen to you.
My prayer is that the Holy spirit convicts him before he does any damage to the body of christ.
Knowledge truly puffs a person up with pride, but love edifies.(1cor 8:3).
As believers its very essential to walk in love even when pointing out to things we think are wrong.

@ plappyville, bro its absolutely ridiculous to condemn a ministry based on just one video.

Bidam: @ the emboldened freewill and subject to debate.

you're right dear brother.its a conviction i arrived at based on my own study of the bible.i won't impose it on you.we could have a discussion(not argument) on it at a time convenient for both of us.

till then pray God keeps and bless u richly

wordthots: @ Bidam, I don't think frosbel is goin to backdown n listen to you.
My prayer is that the Holy spirit convicts him before he does any damage to the body of christ.
Knowledge truly puffs a person up with pride, but love edifies.(1cor 8:3).
As believers its very essential to walk in love even when pointing out to things we think are wrong.

@ plappyville, bro its absolutely ridiculous to condemn a ministry based on just one video.

Yes, but nothing wrong in pointing out certain manipulation of a ministry as well.

plappville:
This man is not perfect, even though he teaches some truth!


So you call that funny video?
Holy .ghost has not started to make people look funny uh?



No one is fooled here, the video showed it all...please stop defending evil manipulations!

ok ma..i hear u..but you have already made up ur mind about hagin's ministry even before watching the video..probably based on what you heard people say about him i guess..frosbel is a member of RCCG in the UK..Adeboye believes in Hagin's ministry...he talks about him, i sometimes listen to his teachings..i think he even invites Hagin(the son) to Nigeria..they are partners in ministry..u can ask frosbel to verify this truth.

wordthots: @ Bidam, I don't think frosbel is goin to backdown n listen to you.
My prayer is that the Holy spirit convicts him before he does any damage to the body of christ.
Knowledge truly puffs a person up with pride, but love edifies.(1cor 8:3).
As believers its very essential to walk in love even when pointing out to things we think are wrong.

@ plappyville, bro its absolutely ridiculous to condemn a ministry based on just one video.

yeah..guess you are right..lets just leave oga frosbel alone.

wordthots: @ Bidam, I don't think frosbel is goin to backdown n listen to you.
My prayer is that the Holy spirit convicts him before he does any damage to the body of christ.
Knowledge truly puffs a person up with pride, but love edifies.(1cor 8:3).
As believers its very essential to walk in love even when pointing out to things we think are wrong.

@ plappyville, bro its absolutely ridiculous to condemn a ministry based on just one video.

Yes, but nothing wrong in pointing out certain manipulation of in a ministry as well.

Candour:

you're right dear brother.its a conviction i arrived at based on my own study of the bible.i won't impose it on you.we could have a discussion(not argument) on it at a time convenient for both of us.

till then pray God keeps and bless u richly

i am eagerly open to such discussion Sir! God bless you too.

Bidam: ok ma..i hear u..but you have already made up ur mind about hagin's ministry even before watching the video..probably based on what you heard people say about him i guess..frosbel is a member of RCCG in the UK..Adeboye believes in Hagin's ministry...he talks about him, i sometimes listen to his teachings..i think he even invites Hagin(the son) to Nigeria..they are partners in ministry..u can ask frosbel to verify this truth.

You are right, quite a number of ministers are actually connected to Rhema (Hagins ministry) and back then (before he went to be with the Lord) they used to go to Tulsa for his meetings. I know Pastor Adeboye has some connection with them especially Rhema Nigeria.

@candour thank you sir, lookin forward to a discussion with you sometime

wordthots:

You are right, quite a number of ministers are actually connected to Rhema (Hagins ministry) and back then (before he went to be with the Lord) they used to go to Tulsa for his meetings. I know Pastor Adeboye has some connection with them especially Rhema Nigeria.

@candour thank you sir, lookin forward to a discussion with you sometime

You should be following Christ and not Kenneth Hagin.

I also read tons of Kenneth Hagins books but was a little puzzled when he seemed to always have some direct and often contact with JESUS. This put him on a pedestal above the others, which drew men to him with the expectation that they will be healed because of his special anointing.

This is false, the anointing resides in every Christian who is truly led of Christ, we do not need to go to a guru who has seen some extraordinary visions and powers to get healed or delivered .

People who claim some special status in the body are DANGEROUS.

We should also be very concerned when certain MEN are esteemed very highly by other MEN, Jesus was not esteemed , he was rejected.

"And he said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God." - Luke 16:15


Let's see the SPECIAL STATUS the apostles received.

"when we are slandered, we answer kindly. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world." - 1 Corinthians 4:13

I can only warn you from experience. Shaking violently , barking like dogs, crawling on all fours and claiming some special divine revelation is not of GOD.


What we need is the WORD of GOD , Prayer , a reliable fellowship and dedication to the will and work of GOD.

frosbel:

You should be following Christ and not Kenneth Hagin.

I also read tons of Kenneth Hagins books but was a little puzzled when he seemed to always have some direct and often contact with JESUS. This put him on a pedestal above the others, which drew men to him with the expectation that they will be healed because of his special anointing.

This is false, the anointing resides in every Christian who is truly led of Christ, we do not need to go to a guru who has seen some extraordinary visions and powers to get healed or delivered .

People who claim some special status in the body are DANGEROUS.

We should also be very concerned when certain MEN are esteemed very highly by other MEN, Jesus was not esteemed , he was rejected.

"And he said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God." - Luke 16:15


Let's see the SPECIAL STATUS the apostles received.

"when we are slandered, we answer kindly. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world." - 1 Corinthians 4:13

I can only warn you from experience. Shaking violently , barking like dogs, crawling on all fours and claiming some special divine revelation is not of GOD.


What we need is the WORD of GOD , Prayer , a reliable fellowship and dedication to the will and work of GOD.

Bro frosbel I seriously doubt if you read hagins materials and if u did u probably read wt a preconceived mindset (no insult intended).

Hagin was a man who never boasted about his visions, infact I still av a message on my phone presently (Our inheritance) where he narrated his experience with Jesus and made it clear that he didn't receive it cause he was any better than anyman.
One thing I respected and learnt from him was his honesty, Hagin would tell you that it didn't matter the MOG dat said a thing, if the MOGs word didn't line up wt Gods word then that thing is not true. From His materials he taught people to put the word first, not teachings or visions of men but the word. Hagin would always ask for a scripture and verse n he won't stop at that he would also ask for two or three witnesses (that is 2 or 3 scriptures to back ur claim)

About the healing part that's also not true this was a man who taught extensively on receivin divine healing personally. He wrote countless books on healing to make believers know healing was deirs without avin to go for miracle services or any MOG. He taught men to receive their healings in their homes without avin to go for crusades; this was because he got healed as a little boy on his deathbed by simply putting his faith in the word (no MOG laid hands on him).

Most of his teachings were based on the new creation realities; believers knowing their rights in christ. He preached extensively about our inheritance in Christ focusing more on the new testament.
I know these things cause at some point in my life I followed Hagin to the letter, now I know better anyways (I don't follow men I follow Jesus n I av learnt wait on the Holy spirit to grant me revelational knowedge when studying)
However I still respect the ministry, not like all he did was 100percent accurate but he was a blessing to many including me. Pls don't tk that out of context, cause ur writings have also blessed me, but it doesn't mean I have made u my God n I'm now following u.
Blessed just means blessed. I think the problem is this: when we say we were blessed by a ministry, you interprete it to mean we are following the MOG blindly which is not true. There is only one person I follow and dats Jesus

Bidam: I don't agree with you on the emboldened. have u asked yourself why there are so many breakaways in churches today(Nigeria has the largest number of denominational churches worldwide, you can prove me wrong) .these churches started as home fellowship as a result of doctrines they disagreed with in their former churches. or how do you think martin Luther broke away from the Catholics to start the protestant movement. in souer's history of the christian church volume 3, p.206, the following statement is found: "Dr. Martin Luther was a prophet, evangelist, speaker in tongues and interpreter, in one person, endowed with all the gifts of the HOLY SPIRIT". still many people called martin luther the reformer a false prophet and a blasphemer even till date. Personally i criticism MOGs even Tb. Joshua..but does that alter the fact that he doesn't have large followers of believers even here in nairaland? no. and there is nothing wrong in a father you look up to..was Apostle Paul not a MAN? LOOK AT WHAT HE SAID IN 1 COR 11:1
New International Version (©1984)
Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.


New Living Translation (©2007)
And you should imitate me, just as I imitate Christ.



English Standard Version (©2001)
Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.



New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.



Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Imitate me, as I also imitate Christ.



International Standard Version (©2012)
Imitate me, as I do the Messiah.



King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.



Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Imitate me just as I also do The Messiah.


GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Imitate me as I imitate Christ.



King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Be followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.


American King James Version
Be you followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.


American Standard Version
Be ye imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ.


Douay-Rheims Bible
BE ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ.

we follow men who follow CHRIST my bro.. ofcos we know there are charlatans out there...JESUS said you know them by their fruits...AND I CAN BOLDLY TELL YOU(I DON'T KNOW ABOUT OTHER MINISTERS IN THE VIDEO THAT FROSBEL DISPLAYED)WITH ALL HUMILITY MY CONSCIENCE BEARING ME WITNESS IN THE HOLY GHOST THAT KENNETH HAGIN OF BLESSED MEMORY IS NOT A FALSE PROPHET. THIS IS NOT ABOUT DEFENDING HAGIN BUT ABOUT SPEAKING THE TRUTH WHERE YOU SEE DECEPTIONS AND LIES PERPETRATED BY ENEMIES OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

The bible made us understand that Paul was called by Christ, we can all bear witness to this because our bible says so. Now following men would be on the basis that their fruits are like that of Christ. I personally don't know about Hagin so I would not speak about him. i don't see the need to criticize any MOG's personality but with the level of prosperity preaching going on, would you say these preachers are of Christ? Do the manifestations in that video look godly to you? I don't need you to respond to these questions on here. I just need you to answer them in your heart.

Talking about fruits.Acquiring material wealth, is that the kind of example Christ showed, since we claim to follow Christ.Would Christ buy a private Jet with so much poverty around him? So many people defend these private jet acquisition by saying the MOG has a lot of appointments worldwide to meet up with and I ask them this. what is more important? Is it the status/the person of the MOG or the spreading of the gospel as we were instructed in the "great commission". I believe the important thing is for the word to go round not necessarily the bearer of the gospel.

Also you stated that you criticize MOGs, this got me curious. When you do this? What are the pointers/criteria you use as your yardstick for criticism?

Bidam: have you followed..i mean really followed kenneth hagins teachings and messages...don't be hasty to judge and condemn..am not talking about the funny video frobel pasted hia from a pagan website([b]the video might be lies [/b]and deception to fool u)..satan can also make a mockery and attacks the church..destruction can start from within not outside just like you are condemning a ministry that has been a tremendous blessing to thousands of people.. A video like this can be monitored and manipulated to fool you..are u there in the meetings? How do u know it is real? Thank God for technology anything is possible these days..i wonder why people can be fooled like this.

@Bidam,Why not take out time to investigate this before you start with your defense. I believe you may have been blessed from his messages, but why do you sound like he isn't infallible or human. I've heard many Catholics say the Pope is infallible and sometimes I wonder if he is not human.I believe you have a preacher you presently look up to and believe me you actually have a deity-status of him in your heart. You may be reluctant to admit this.

ezme:

@Bidam,Why not take out time to investigate this before you start with your defense. I believe you may have been blessed from his messages, but why do you sound like he isn't infallible or human. I've heard many Catholics say the Pope is infallible and sometimes I wonder if he is not human.I believe you have a preacher you presently look up to and believe me you actually have a deity-status of him in your heart. You may be reluctant to admit this.

@ezme funny u should read my post that way...as a matter of fact i have a father but i don't take him as my god..u need to understand the order of ministerial son...am not illegitimate..just like elisha needs an elijah, timothy needs paul so also i look up to my father...there is nothing wrong there..please go get a copy of the order of a son by mark hanby and u will understand my point..well as for the private jet thing.pple are too much in a hurry to cricticise MOG's that they fail to realise the trips these men take to abroad in a year..imagine me travelling 1st class @ 1.5million multiply that by 80 trips in a year..how much do u think that would amount to..well wat i quoted was a ballpark figure..i dnt see anythin wrong in a ministry having a private jet for the futherance of the gospel..we are not in jesus era or paul era..times have change..even if Jesus were to be present here on earth dnt u think He would have used a jet to reach other parts of samaria for the gospel instead of using a boat? Which is more faster?

@Bidam and @wordthots,you are welcome.

we can discuss any day you choose. Just let me know.u are older on this site so i'll follow ur lead.

till then,God bless u richly

Bidam: @ezme funny u should read my post that way...as a matter of fact i have a father but i don't take him as my god..u need to understand the order of ministerial son...am not illegitimate..just like elisha needs an elijah, timothy needs paul so also i look up to my father...there is nothing wrong there..please go get a copy of the order of a son by mark hanby and u will understand my point..well as for the private jet thing.pple are too much in a hurry to cricticise MOG's that they fail to realise the trips these men take to abroad in a year..imagine me travelling 1st class @ 1.5million multiply that by 80 trips in a year..how much do u think that would amount to..well wat i quoted was a ballpark figure..i dnt see anythin wrong in a ministry having a private jet for the futherance of the gospel..we are not in jesus era or paul era..times have change..even if Jesus were to be present here on earth dnt u think He would have used a jet to reach other parts of samaria for the gospel instead of using a boat? Which is more faster?

My response would just be in a bid to argue,but, I would love to let go the urge to do so. I would like to acquaint you of the existence of chariots during the time of Jesus and for most of his life time he walked/trekked. The only time, to the best of my knowledge Jesus didn't walk was during the triumphant entry into Jerusalem. Jesus treated all men as equal and didn't fall into the politics of social stratification which was well in existence during the bible days. But, these are just for argument sake, I just believe Jesus would not have supported extravagance and amassing of material wealth here on earth. Conscience is an open wound, only truth can heal it .....UDF. If you are proud of your line of defense for the private jet lifestyle, then I would respect your view.