@alexis; you seem to be a person who takes things and understand them literally. right? if this is so, could you discount that it is literally logical for anyone to arrive at calling the man who overshadowed and came upon a woman that bore a son you call the son of the woman her husband? is it not also literally logical to arrive at saying the 1 hung is also the ones not seen if the one hung is one and the same the invisible ones? if you can say Jesus is literally son of God or Mary is literally the spouse of God though Mary is the literally mother of Jesus her son and you can say Jehovah was hung when you say Jesus was literally hung, we need to understand what Prophet Muhammad [sa] meant by 1 intestine and intestines.

Even though I was reading this hadith for the very first time from you, i easily could give you an explanation based on the 7 in islam and the fact that all humans, in normal circumstances have the same internal organs. but i did want come up with my own explanation so i goggle the hadith and here is what i found and it is not so different from my guess from the moment i read what you think was a slam dunk.

7 is very many or too much. a person who becomes a glutton in food can be said to have 7 intestines

below is a good read about 7 Intestines [glutton quality]
www.onislam.net/english/ask-the-scholar/morals-and.../169721.html

. . . .The scholars say that one should not take the number seven literally; it is used in Arabic to indicate large number or quantity. “Eating in seven intestines” is a metaphorical way of saying “eating too much or being too greedy.”

Some scholars say that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was not speaking generally but he was referring to a particular person who came to visit him. This person was offered a glass of milk to drink, and he drank. His host poured some more milk in his glass and he drank that. Then some more was given and he drank that, too. This continued until this person drank seven glasses of milk. Next day he came again to the Prophet and the Prophet spoke to him about the message of Islam. The visitor accepted Islam. The Prophet again offered him the milk, but this time he took only one serving and that was sufficient for him. The Prophet then remarked that when he was a non-believer he drank seven times more than what he drank after his accepting Islam. So in this sense, some scholars say that this was not a general remark about every non-believer and believer. This remark was made about a particular person only. (See Tuhfatul Ahwazi Sharh At-Tirmidhi)" . . .

and back to the fly, I called many nigerians i know and including those in europe and in abuja nigeria. i can give you their response on skype if it makes you happy, without names; all agreed that people just take it out and down their drink. Your problem is that you will say because they didnt get sick, the fly does not carry the diseases. Well, you dont know that for sure since you didnt test the fly and you did not receive any revelation about it from God. if a person falls sick it is not necessary that it is because the fly entered their drink. It may be because of other reason.

if you are to disprove the hadith, you have to provide data with 100% accuracy that all those who consume their drink after they dipped the fly the found in it got sick of what the fly carried. you know how impossible your task is? not all scientists on earth can disprove this one and you are going about as if you got something. and in all your argument, you have not provided a single verifiable evidence that a man got sick after he followed the hadith to the letter, including trusting God by saying the Bismilla.

Mee234: @alex you are having a field day because tbaba has not shown you the real meaning of all these things in classic Arabic. He once shew how misinterpretation by some who claim that Quran said that mountain prevent earthquake even when all the English translation of that statement use the world qauke.

Mosquito bites and may have a chance of flying away if not swatted to pieces. The same is not the case with the fly in the hadith that will not be able to fly away was the "wet" drink that will incapacitate it so much so hat the drinker will be able to dip it in in order to get the antidote [the cure]. lets apply our mind, shall we?

it says dip it in your drink. when you dip it in your drink, it probably dies or you kill it after taking it out, so that there is no chance to test your hypothesis of mosquitoes biting second person to see if you only escape its diseases. Lets use our mind, i said.

my bold answer to your weak challenge is this; when you think a person is died in an accident and he did not die, Allah has cured him of death by extending his life, like the man who missed a plane that crashed: you say he cheated death if you know he didn't take the plane or if you thought he took it and you took him for dead until he shows up, telling you he was on the plane. but know a lot of people have survived plane crash, including completely babies while strong men died. if a man cheated disease, was it not a cure as the man who didn't die was cured of death, resurrected before he died? while you can not prove that the fly didn't carry the disease, if it was your assumption, it falls on speculation while the mere fact the person who dipped it in did not get sick is evidence of cure, until you can provide that the fly didn't carry the cure, the material emphasized while you doubt it without being ever to prove it wrong.

Sahih Muslim
by Imam Muslim, translation by Abdul Hamid Siddiqui , Volume: The Book of Drinks (Kitab Al-Ashriba)
Chapter: A BELIEVER EATS IN ONE INTESTINE WHEREAS A NON-BELIEVER EATS IN SEVEN INTESTINES
5120.
Abu Huraira reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) invited a non-Muslim. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) commanded that a goat be milked for him. It was milked and he drank its milk. Then the second one was milked and he drank its milk, and then the other one was milked and he drank its milk. till he drank the milk of seven goats. On the next morning he embraced Islam. And Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) commanded that a goat should be milked for him and he drank its milk and then another was milked but he did not finish it, whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: A believer drinks In one intestine whereas a non-believer drinks in seven intestines.

alexis:

I know a little Arabic, indulge me

Mee234:
I can't as I don't know any Arab(joking ). What I'm trying to say is that they know how to dodge questions by telling u the Arab word mean something else other what you read usually from their schooler.

I dont know where alexis is from because i may need to borrow idiomatic expression from his people. if a man didn't get sick, he is cured from the sickness because it is an assumption that was sick already similar to forgiving already the sin of the future. in both cases, the person will not get sick and the other will not commit the sin.

if you wanna be elementary, the man was prevented from getting sick because he take the medicine that did not let him be called sick with the disease or there was no disease to be cured because it was neutralized before it gets to him similar to the man who did not get to commit the sin because the opportunity of committing the sin was blocked or removed.

alexis, it is you who need to go get flies and analyze each to see if it carries any disease and the cure. my case is easy; i believe and if no palm wine drinker gets sick because he dipped the fly in his drink that is enough proof. since you disbelieve, your job is compounded so that you can disproof.

when i used the plane crash, it is something similar because most plane crashes does not have any survivor. but in rare cases, you find survivors, and the survivor many be the weakest of the passengers. what this tells us is that God determines who get sick or dies. caution [dip the fly in your drink], [buckle us and fasten your seat belt] and leave the outcome to God Who you should put your trust in.

yoruba will say he eats until he needs to use the restroom. thats over indulging. in islam, we are told that a plate for one is enough for 2 people. we are told if you eat to the max it must not be more than 1/3 of the stomach, drink must not be more than 1/3 of the stomach and must ideally leave the last 1/3 of the stomach so that you can breath. i doubt if you get the wisdom of it all and when a person who drank 7 times yesterday of what he drinks today, if his becoming a muslim today is responsible for the moderation, he definitely drank yesterday as if he had 7 intestines because today as a muslim he has 1 intestine. its a statement full of wisdom and ramadhan this year in the upper part of northern hemisphere will be long. most places in america, it starts definitely before 4 am and does not stop until 9 pm. england and other parts of europe is even longer. yet muslims in these places will fast and perform all the duties of fasting along with duties of livelihood. the disbelievers may not have to endure this long fast because they have no reason to, so they may have their proverbial 7 intestines while at the end of the month long, the muslims will eat less and definitely will only have the proverbial 1 intestine

Mee234: @alex you are having a field day because tbaba has not shown you the real meaning of all these things in classic Arabic. He once shew how misinterpretation by some who claim that Quran said that mountain prevent earthquake even when all the English translation of that statement use the world qauke.

alexis:

Bros, stick to the point about the scientific claims about Mohammed. We are talking about how flies have cure to any disease it carries, how Adam was 90 feet tall and how a non-muslim has 7 intestines. So far, all you have done is talk in circles.



Again, going in circles on a topic that is irrelevant to what we are discussing. I will ask you the same simple question again. If a fly carries typhoid fever in one of it's wings - does it have the cure to the typhoid fever in another wing based on your prophet scientific reasoning?



I don't have to prove anything. It is only a muslim that would believe a fly carries cure to any disease that it spreads irrespective of his education. I asked you for evidence and you posted how a fly can possibly possess anti-bacteria properties. As if that is proof that it has a cure to whatever disease it carrier. You later tried to come up with an impossible explanation that PREVENTION EQUALS CURE; that didn't work either and here you are talking about palm-wine drinkers. I thought muslims weren't suppose to drink, so who was Mohammed referring to?



You comparison has no logic. There are accidents everyday where babies die but adults survive and vice-versa. It holds no water. Again, stick to the thread and provide reliable evidence



Oga, you don't need to tell me about the Yoruba culture to explain the Hadith. Your Hadith made a claim - it said because a non muslim eat so much, he must have more than one intestine? It never said anything about the ramadan or the places where muslims live or fasting or whatsoever.

Mohammed said the man eat too much and as a result he had more than one intestine - simple!. So, what if it was a muslim that ate as much or even more, then what? My point is and still remains simple - Show us how a human anatomy has 7 intestines? You can show us before and after he ate. You can show us a muslim and non-muslim intestines so we can compare. A simple picture will suffice

Again, you have failed to provide direct answers to these simple questions:

1. If a fly carries typhoid fever in one of it's wings; does it have a cure in it's other wing?
2. Can you show us a picture of a muslim intestine and a non-muslim intestine to see if a non-muslim has 7 intestine
3. Can you tell us or prove that Adam was 90 feet tall? How tall was Eve or their kids?

I dey wait for your answer

there is no spiritual manipulation in islam. a person who was born into islam and in it till adulthood, if he has no personal reason at adulthood to be convinced that islam is the correct guidance, it becomes a mere tradition that is keeping him; following what his forefathers followed and that is not what islam which is based on evidence and faith is

i think alexis is just interested in maintaining the statuesque thinking he will sell us a good that has 3 bundles in it as if it is the pure form of The Unchanging and Un-Caused Who caused and still causing all He is giving us.

no prophetic statement that comes from the prophet [sa] except that it is fulfilled appropriately. a person is cured before he catches the disease he thinks its eminent because of an action he is about to engage in, especially if the action is unavoidable. a woman who was told falls into category of those who generally have monthly complication, if she fears that she will definitely have the worst kind ever therefore engages in the simple precautionary measure that a student doctor said he heard the best doctor on the matter says its a sure cure. let just say this step is drinking 6 glasses of cold water, 2 days before the start and continue throughout the length of the visit, till there is no trace of it. if she started the very maiden month and continued throughout her life. each month she followed this regiment and as a mother recommended it to her daughter, is there a wiseguy on earth that can disprove that the step she took in her time of monthly visitor is worthless that she was not a candidate for what she feared could have happened to her? it is immoral, rather unintelligent to argue against what works even if it looks crude and primitive to you. mission accomplished does not have to be in gold plate but what does the job.

it will be pretty silly to convince a man who downed his drink that his action of dipping the fly that he found in his cup of ginger ale did not work even as he was not sick, while others at the concert were nauseated. how can you argue that the fly he dipped in didnt carry what others were sick from, and that his dipping it in was what not a cure for him?

cleanvessel: @RoyPCain

Is that all? What about muslims' intestine? What about Adam being 90 feet (10-storey building) tall? Man is not bird. Almost all human activities are close to the ground: sleeping, farming, think of them. What is Adam doing in the sky?

alexis:

I am waiting for his explanation. His problem is that with all his education, he is unable to use it when it comes to the Quran. How can any human being have 7 intestines? Ask him about it and he will start off in a whole direction that is not related to the question.

Those in 7th century Arabia couldn't verify such statements and claims but we can. We already have and such statements are not true. For example:

1. Mohammed said a non muslim have 7 intestine and a muslim has one because a non muslim ate too much - How in this universe is that correct?
2. He said Adam was 90 feet tall - We are still waiting for an explanation on this
3. He said a child will resemble his father if the father climax first when having sex and the child will resemble his mother if the mother climax first - This is untrue but a child resemblance relies on genetics and not sexual climax

These are just basic things he claimed that is not correct when tested with science

alexis:

I am waiting for his explanation. His problem is that with all his education, he is unable to use it when it comes to the Quran. How can any human being have 7 intestines? Ask him about it and he will start off in a whole direction that is not related to the question.

Those in 7th century Arabia couldn't verify such statements and claims but we can. We already have and such statements are not true. For example:

1. Mohammed said a non muslim have 7 intestine and a muslim has one because a non muslim ate too much - How in this universe is that correct?
2. He said Adam was 90 feet tall - We are still waiting for an explanation on this
3. He said a child will resemble his father if the father climax first when having sex and the child will resemble his mother if the mother climax first - This is untrue but a child resemblance relies on genetics and not sexual climax

These are just basic things he claimed that is not correct when tested with science

alexis:

I am waiting for his explanation. His problem is that with all his education, he is unable to use it when it comes to the Quran. How can any human being have 7 intestines? Ask him about it and he will start off in a whole direction that is not related to the question.

Those in 7th century Arabia couldn't verify such statements and claims but we can. We already have and such statements are not true. For example:

1. Mohammed said a non muslim have 7 intestine and a muslim has one because a non muslim ate too much - How in this universe is that correct?
2. He said Adam was 90 feet tall - We are still waiting for an explanation on this
3. He said a child will resemble his father if the father climax first when having sex and the child will resemble his mother if the mother climax first - This is untrue but a child resemblance relies on genetics and not sexual climax

These are just basic things he claimed that is not correct when tested with science

alexis:

I am waiting for his explanation. His problem is that with all his education, he is unable to use it when it comes to the Quran. How can any human being have 7 intestines? Ask him about it and he will start off in a whole direction that is not related to the question.

Those in 7th century Arabia couldn't verify such statements and claims but we can. We already have and such statements are not true. For example:

1. Mohammed said a non muslim have 7 intestine and a muslim has one because a non muslim ate too much - How in this universe is that correct?
2. He said Adam was 90 feet tall - We are still waiting for an explanation on this
3. He said a child will resemble his father if the father climax first when having sex and the child will resemble his mother if the mother climax first - This is untrue but a child resemblance relies on genetics and not sexual climax

These are just basic things he claimed that is not correct when tested with science

cleanvessel:

With these points of yours they still can claim islam is scientifically perfect. Don't you feel something is wrong somewhere?

You keep going around in circles here using circular reasoning to explain the Quran. I have tried my best to avoid any statement that is not in the Quran. Remember, I had mentioned the case of the mosquito but made it clear that Mohammed never talked about a mosquito. Leave women with their menses out of the picture. The test here is simple - We are trying to prove Mohammed 7th century statement is true based on ESTABLISHED fact of science. What I find with your arguments is that you makes too many assumptions and tries to manufacture explanations to fit your model. This is both dangerous from religious and scientific viewpoints. Again, the test is simple:

PLEASE PROVE HOW A FLY THAT CARRIES TYPHOID IN ONE OF IT'S WINGS HAVE THE CURE TO THE SAME TYPHOID IN IT'S SECOND WING - it is that simple

alexis:

Most muslims stand on matters of Islam is simple - "My mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts". We as human-beings are responsible for clarifying issues that are controversial and in-correct.

1. Mohammed said a non muslim have 7 intestine and a muslim has one because a non muslim ate too much - How in this universe is that correct?
2. He said Adam was 90 feet tall - We are still waiting for an explanation on this
3. He said a child will resemble his father if the father climax first when Being Intimate and the child will resemble his mother if the mother climax first - This is untrue but a child resemblance relies on genetics and not intimate climax

These are just basic things he claimed that is not correct when tested with science

Let me give you modern day example of this type of expression. maybe the error will clear up in your mind;
7 intestines in this case is like when a person is said is a pig because of greed, and we know he is not a pig, or is he a pig to you? have you heard a person being called an octopus? why? it is because his hands are all over the places as if he has more than 2 hands or more than 10 fingers. have you heard somebody called sticky fingers? why? it is because he takes everything as in stealing/thieving. each is an expression of bad or abnormal quality in the eye of the one who said it. when the prophet [SA] said the disbelievers have 7 intestines, the man who was representing disbelief drank 7 cups of milk. the following day, when the man accepted Islam, he shed his disbelieving quality and he drank only one cup of milk and was satisfied because when 2nd cup was offered, he declined. God reformed him and i bet you eat more than your share now compared to if the same you were a muslim. i guess you carry 7 intestines around and you will remain true to human form with 1 intestine when you shed the disbelief in you which automatically reforms you eating or gluttony.

2]. Adam was 90 ft is simple and you can find that in your bible. first imagine the shaping of Adam [sa]. since you believe that Yahweh made him and it was a labor that love was put in. Yahweh rested and refreshed, the bible says. How tall is Adam that after Yahweh finished He had to take a rest? think about it for a moment and ask your pastor before you hurry to give me something that is weak on the subject of how large was Adam to be part of what made Yahweh tired, considering that we see huge dinosaurs roamed the earth. i am thinking man must have seem the tail end of them before they extinct. it is interesting that the grandchildren of Yahweh produced by His sons entering the daughters of men who are fair women were giants. what were the heights of the tallest giant and the shortest of them. Who were the sons of Yahweh sleeping wit daughters of men? Were the sons angels an how large can angels be and what do you think their will be lie if they are giants?

3]. It is already clear that it is the type of sper.m that fused with the egg that will determine the gender of the baby. one one sper.m per egg. the mother has only x chromosome in the egg. the father has in the semen, y chromosome carrying sper.m and x chromosome carrying sper.m. colder temperature is where the y chromosome sper.m is more active than the x chromosome carrying sper.m. the y chromosome carrying sper.m has a shorter lifespan than the x chromosome carrying sper.m. so to have a son, the window is not as wide for it as in having daughter because of these two factors. so timing in the sexu.al intercourse is very important so it goes with the man climaxing first is one of the best conditions that favors pregnancy of boy baby because the alkalinity in the woman is increase when she reached orgasm shortly after. it is in when the ph is more alkaline that is better for Y chromosome carry sper.m is active, rather than where the ph is more acidic. what the prophet [sa] said if intelligently analyze, one will say that for a boy to be born, woman must reach orgasm. period. if man reaches before her, boy will be born. period. if woman does not reach orgasm, boy will not be born. period.

Getting Pregnant
If the woman has an orgasm just before the man ejaculates, or soon after ejaculation, it increases the alkaline secretions in her vagina and uterus. This is supposed to favour 'boy' sperm. It also makes the woman's uterus and fallopian tubes to have rhythmic contractions, drawing the semen up towards the newly released egg.
for baby girl, the only the male that reaches orgasm by him ejaculating, supporting that when man reaches orgasm first and woman later, it is 100% that baby boy will be produces. when woman does not reach orgasm at all, no boy will be born.
The woman should avoid having an orgasm during sex, as this can increase alkaline vaginal secretions, favouring 'boy' sperm.Avoiding deep vaginal penetration so that the sperm will pass through the woman's more acidic vaginal canal, aimed at favouring 'girl' sperm. This may be achieved by the couple using the face to face missionary position with shallow penetration at the time of ejaculation.to ignore what science of today is supporting just because it comes from the enemy is sign of ignorance

@Alexis: I am not fit to do anything except obey and follow Muhammad [sa] and do not doubt by clear path. Alexis, are you married and are you a father of boys? if you have never married i will take it that you are a virgin still. what Muhammad [sa] about producing boy baby has happened to me. I have personal experience. so my story is a confirmation while your lack of experience on the matter of fathering is why you are chatting nothing.

if your mind is this simple that when 7 intestines was mentioned the reason for it was provided. it is the opposite action of the man when he has became a muslim that brought about the expression. if you can process anything at all, how do you know someone in the past lived and raised up dead? have you seen truly dead and buried and decayed alive again? have you ever heard the expression 'long throat'? how long is the throat? come on alexis, common sense needs to be applied.

The bible is what you believe, no? if it has something in it that is in hadith and or Quran, why not ask your pastor why is it in the bible first and see how adeboye will give you a hot slap since its a cheap commodity before you are complaining about it in the Hadith? true the bible is corrupt, it does not make it 100% useless. When it says God is One, Unseen Creator, not a man, not son of man, we accept it because its similar in meaning to what we have. A prostitute may be corrupt, but human being still.

What i pen is from US journals. So your biologist sister will have to provide better evidence than the folks in USA. do you know how many american white doctors are muslims? how about dr. laurence brown? reverted and left cushy job in the military behind and you think i am bothered with the biologist?

the heights of Adam and Eve have to match. so asking me how tall was Eve, you can imagine what feet 90 ft man, and rightly so to deal with whatever were with them when they were the 2 humans. you dont think its appropriate for each to be short do you? a 10 foot tall man with 9 ft 10 inches wife as the first couple on earth will be like ants under the leaves on the forest floor. 90ft is right size. i can give you my email so that i can school your biologist without the civility of the public.

artificial insemination is not what was spoken in the hadith. it only addresses what happened between husband and wife, not unmarried couple or single person. common sense

@alexis; have you told your biologist sister about my offer? look you seem to be thinking as if its past your bedtime and it may just be the reason the muslims kinda ignore you. I must let you know that a lot of medical doctors and biologists are muslims and they are familiar with the hadith of 7 intestines for disbeliever because he drank for 7 [like a woman eating for 4 when she is pregnant and when she delivers she eats for one only], and 1 intestine as a believer because he now drinks for 1. the muslim scientists know about the fly in your drink and you dip it in, then flips it out of it and drink the no residue 'juice' with hope that if there was a disease, the cure already neutralize it. They know and not everyone is wasteful or paranoid like you.

there is a kid who is 6 8 and only 16 years old. he is abdulmalik on youtube. few years ago i picked him up from his grade school because hi parents were not available. he looked like father. very much like his aunt. resemblance here is about gender; thats what the scientists say and thats what the prophet [sa] meant. if you say he meant something else like a look, then since you and sister look like momma, you have to ask if there was assurance of which intercourse produced the pregnancy that the one who resembled momma, and if there was momma discharges? now you call for it and you have to research it out. You will see why both of you look like momma. And the prophet [sa] will be right if she was the domineering one.

a son doesnt have to loo like late grandfather to be call babatunde. he just have to be a boy delivered after the passing of grandfather. i have a nephew called babatunde. and son can look like his dad who looks like his own dad, hence grandson looks like grandpa. The prophet says when a man discharges before the woman, the baby resembles the father. thats all it says. so if a woman discharges first, does discharge at all or not even in intercourse but get pregnant anyway, in each of these, the hadith does not address them. this hadith proofs that Muhammad [sa] is the one spoken about who will only say what God puts in his mouth.

when a man comes to your house and he ate everything in sight, if you say he is a pig in your mind, will you be wrong and is he a pig and your house is the feeding station? if he returns a day later and he says he learn something that changed his spiritual outlook. after he finished, you set a plate of food in front of him based on what he did yesterday. if he said thats too much that he is not a pig and says that will enough for 7 people, so he can only eat a little of it. after he leaves will you still call him a pig or you will call him a man who will not eat himself to death? the 7 intestines is similar because he drank 7 cups of milk while a disbeliever and the following day after believing, he drank only one cup and was satisfied. in essence he still had 1 complete human internal organs as a muslim. if one looked back at his food intake yesterday when he was a disbeliever, it would seem as if he had 7 complete internal organs that he had to satisfy, then, based on what is satisfactory now.

I may not be able to provide the uncorrupted copy because i dont have it and it does mean anything to me. but i can provide plenty of proofs that what you have in your hand now is pretty much corrupted, every version, every edition, every print. if you challenge on this, i will get you a page full and videos too. you have no leg to stand on and no one has to wear any shoes to be taller than you the way i will rubbish you.

alexis, your bible says there were giants born. what proof do you want in addition to this? if you dont accept the hadith, it means you disbelieve that part of your bible, to say the least. whatever i accept of your bible it is because the Quran, Hadith says similar. i will be disbeliever if i am disagreeing with what Islam agrees with een if i find it in christianity. your disagreeing with something that bible has just because you are looking at it from Islam is a sign that you are not a christian or a good christian.

the hadith does not have to say to the married people only for us to know that only married people will be addressed in matters of procreation because outside of marriage, its illegal intercourse be dat