~Lady~:

Paul said we cannot be separated from God, not even by death, if Jesus is God and we are his body, how then are we separated from each other?

~Lady~:

Oh so Christ's body is separate from God's love. Oga please you are the one that holds the truth since I am the liar, so can you knidly break it down for me a commoner to understand, how it is that Christ is not Love of God.

~Lady~:

Ecclesiastes 9 is the only verse in the Bible that speaks of the dead or those not on earth?

~Lady~:

Psalm 103: 20-21 is asking those in heaven to bless the Lord and pray with us.

~Lady~:

I remember Jesus Christ telling his disciples that they themselves will sit on the thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel, adn I remember St. John in Revelations telling us that there are 24 elders representing the Old and New Israel, the sons of Jacob (ISrael) and the apostles. So are they not in heaven? And are they separated from the body of Christ? Are they separated from Christ?

~Lady~:

Hmm pastor preacher, you may want to read the bible well and ask the Spirit for guidance to be able to understand the past and the present and the future, instead of being too confident that you understand the bible that you come here and spew your own personal interpretation. The verses in the Bible have one meaning not several conradictory one o.

~Lady~:

Those in heaven are not dead, Christ promised us this thing called eternal life, you may have heard of it. We are no longer dead, but living, we may die in the flesh but we live with Christ.

~Lady~:

I am looking forward to living with Christ.

~Lady~:

You may look forward to dying but me I am looking forward to living o.

~Lady~:

Who said anything about the dead appearing?

~Lady~:

We've only stated that they hear our prayers

~Lady~:

then we on earth pray for those in purgatory.

~Lady~:

They don't have to appear to hear our prayers, she stated as an example the appearance of Moses and Elijah to Jesus to inform you that the dead can be in heaven.

davidylan:

No point arguing with a mule, it just can't help itself.

Paul said death cannot separate us from the LOVE OF GOD! Try not to be as those who selectively quote the bible to read their own false theology into it.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

continue confusing yourself.

You don't need 20 verses to explicitly tell you a thing is wrong.

It said no such thing . . .

Ps 103:20Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.

21Bless ye the LORD, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.

22Bless the LORD, all his works in all places of his dominion: bless the LORD, O my soul.

Where did it say to pray with us and on our behalf?

If you wont quote the bible (since it will expose your lies) i will . . . if you want to be confused go ahead but please don't make yourself an agent by which others stumble.

What is the correlation here?
Where did Christ tell them they were sitting on thrones to pray for you and appear in apparitions to you?

The problem is you're not even quoting them.

Ecclesiastes was talking about death in the flesh.

don't be too hasty, at this rate you don't have that hope but merely living in illusions of grandeur. This is no curse neither is it pride.

You're not addressing the issue but running around in circles chasing your own tail - [size=28pt]where in the bible are we admonished to seek the prayers of the dead and have them appear to us?[/size]

St Mary, St Dominic
Fatima, 3 shepherd boys?

the bible says no such thing.

The bible says no such thing

Jesus is GOD . . . He created Elisha and Moses.

@lady
How body na, what I meant was that maybe the problem is that you do not all have the same definitions of the terms thats why the thread keeps going on and on so why don't you guys see if you can agree on the definition then you can proceed to apply it with the bible.

Chrisbenogor:

Arrrrrrgggh you guys should take it easy you are all over the place some of us are actually trying to keep up with you guys.
Ok everyone pause and lets take a breather, jeez I can see why this thread does not end.

Omenuko:

@Davidylan,

O boi, chill-out, one issue at a time. You whan us to clarify our faith on issues pertaining confession; ok fine, we clarify am, finish.

Omenuko:

After, you whan bring wahala with mother Mary; ok fine, we clarify am, finish.

Omenuko:

Now you whan come again, with open mouth and closed head with fire vex on why we pray to holy ones. Ah ah, Nna mehn, make we relax am small o.

Omenuko:

If you want to go into the area of prayers to the saints open a new thread, biko.

Omenuko:

So, it seems like people are clear or have a better understanding on why catholics have the sacrement of confession. You may not agree with it, but you can't say its not part of scripture.

imhotep:

@davidylan
Catholics have been going for confession for over 2000 years. Wonderful experience.

davidylan:

Nothing was clarified . . . please don't abuse that word. Open the bible and clarify it for me, i just got bored chasing shadows and talking with mules.

John 20:22 - And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."

After, you whan bring wahala with mother Mary; ok fine, we clarify am, finish.

Read this thread . . . is that your idea of "clarify am finish"?

God did not derive his divinity from Mary; but it does not follow that it is therefore wrong to say that God was born of Mary, that God is Mary's Son, and that Mary is God's mother, She is the true mother of God and bearer of God, Mary suckled God, rocked God to sleep, prepared broth and soup for God, etc.  For God and man are one person, one Christ, one Son, one Jesus, not two Christs, just as your son is not two sons, even though he has two natures, body and soul, the body from you, the soul from God alone.

Guess who, (The founder of the Reformation)-----Martin Luther On the Councils and the Church (1539)

I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel.

Luke 2:34-35 - Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, "Behold, this child is destined for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be contradicted (and you yourself a sword will pierce) so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed."

where did the bible tell you to "pray to holy ones"?

Eph. 3:14-15 - For this reason I kneel before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named

Every family: in the Greek there is wordplay on the word for the Father (patria, pater). The phrase could also mean "God's whole family"

Heb. 12:1: Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us and persevere in running the race that lies before us while keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, the leader and perfecter of faith.

Rev.5:8 - When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.

Omenuko:

I'm not saying all this to convert you to Catholicism, what I would like for to do is the take the time out to listen to what people have to say. Please don't go to anti-catholic websites and post nonsense and lies about catholics. If you have a question, ask. If you don't agree with what they are saying, then prove your case. But don't stoop so low as to start distributing insults because of disagreement. Thats no way to dialogue.

In addition, because of her intercession Jesus began his ministry and revealed his glory (John 2:1-11).

She is the champion of saints and intercedes on our behalf.

The "cloud of witnesses" refers to the saints who are not only watching us from above but cheering us on in our race to heaven. There cannot be a "communion" if there is no union. Loving beings, whether on earth or in heaven, are concerned for other beings, and this concern is reflected spiritually through prayers for one another. We ask the 'holy ones' to pray for us to God. And they do:

davidylan:

you wont catch me on websites. I only read what you have to say and go search my bible whether those things are there. simple. Ee kwa my father abi?   The man is a fine example of a christian i hope to emulate, he's not a mule even though he can be stubborn.

you people keep saying "if you have question ask", i've been doing that since the last 2 pages. All i get for "answer" is tons of pages refering to everything else but the question i asked. What shld i do?

On the third day there was a wedding in Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.  Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding.  When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, "They have no wine." (And) Jesus said to her, "Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come."  His mother said to the servers, "Do whatever he tells you."  Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings, each holding twenty to thirty gallons.  Jesus told them, "Fill the jars with water." So they filled them to the brim.  Then he told them, "Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter."  So they took it.  And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from (although the servers who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom and said to him, "Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now."  Jesus did this as the beginning of his signs in Cana in Galilee and so revealed his glory, and his disciples began to believe in him.

Yet all these, though approved because of their faith, did not receive what had been promised.  God had foreseen something better for us, so that without us they should not be made perfect

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us 2 and persevere in running the race that lies before us while keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, the leader and perfecter of faith. For the sake of the joy that lay before him he endured the cross, despising its shame, and has taken his seat at the right of the throne of God.

And when he does find it, he sets it on his shoulders with great joy and, upon his arrival home, he calls together his friends and neighbors and says to them, 'Rejoice with me because I have found my lost sheep.'  I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.

Omenuko:

Ok, you keep saying "where is that in the Bible"?  How much clearer do I need to be.  Not everything we do and practice is written explicitly in the Bible.

Omenuko:

 Let me ask you some questions since you don't want to be reasonble:

Omenuko:

1.  Find me the verse (just one verse) where the bible talks about the doctrine of the Trinity (I'm sure our muslim brothers would appreciate it)?

Omenuko:

2.  Show me in the Bible where it says the number, names, and types of books that are supposed to comprise it?

Omenuko:

3.  When was the Bible compiled?

Omenuko:

4.  Why is my bible different from yours (I have the catholic bible, and you the protestant one)?

Omenuko:

5.  Why do you practice non-scriptural Holidays such as Christmas and Easter (and nowhere in the bible does it say we should celebrate them)?

Omenuko:

6.  Why on earth do you worship on Sunday (Day of the Sun: a pagan day)?

Omenuko:

Answer me these questions and then we can come back and talk, full stop.

Omenuko:

John 2:1-11

Omenuko:

Heb 11:39-40

"So that without us they should not be made perfect." What this is saying is that the heroes of the Old Testament obtained their recompense only after the saving works of Christ had been accomplished. In other words, they arleady enjoy what Christians who are still struggling do not yet have.

Omenuko:

then we have Hebrews 12:1-2:

It says we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses who are the saints/holy-ones/heroes-old who are in heaven.

Omenuko:

Luke 15:5-7

Who are those that will have joy over the repentance of one sinner?

I will oblige you with more than 1, my sister:

- John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

- John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

- Isaiah 9:6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

- Up to this point we are clear that the "child" or the "Son" are one and the same with the Father. How about the Holy Spirit?

- Romans 8:11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

- Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

- Ah how could ananias have lied unto God and the Holy Spirit at once if they were different entities?

now we know that the Spirit of God is the same Holy Ghost that dwells in us. So the Spirit of God is God Himself who is the same as the "child" (everlasting Father) that we were given in Isaiah 9.

Brother John then caps it up here - 1 John 5:7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Trinity as a word isnt in my bible . . . i don't need it . . . my bible is sufficient to tell me that the three are one.

The bible as a compilation is man's labour. It is the letters, the epistles, the laws . . . that were God inspired Holy men to write for our examples. I quoted a verse earlier where Paul admonished the Laodecian and Colossian brethren to exchange his letters and ensure they are read in the church. The didnt carry around the bible as we have it today, but God sustained them through those very letters . . . if i throw away my bible today and simply make a photocopy of the dead sea scrolls i wont lose anything. I'D still have God's words to read.

hat is none of my business . . . i am more interested in the letters of inspired men of God and the Spirit of God who drove them to write down the very words that sustain our walk with God today.

. Not everyone celebrates them.
2. they are merely "official" days by which we remember an event that the genuinely born again christian is supposed to make the cornerstone of his very life.
3. Remember Paul admonishing the brethren on remembering the Lord's death in the breaking of bread? The significance was not in the date or how many times they did it, rather it was in the fact that in doing so they focused on the spiritual significance of His death and resurrection.

when i was born i met it that way. Everyday is my day of worship, sunday is merely a symbolic day we all come together as brethren to fellowship with one another. The early apostles actively encouraged communal fellowship (iron sharpeneth iron) . . . i'm not sure they cared very much about the day of the week.

next?

Go back and stop quoting halfway - Heb 11:39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

the bible was silent on that . . . it is you who is forcing your interpretation into that. Who were those God was talking to in Gen 1 when He said let us make man in our own image? Where there saints there already?

Omenuko:

My brother, nowhere in those passages do I see 'Trinity'.  I said show me where the doctrine of the Trinity can be found in the Bible.  I don't want any allusions or un-explicit readings or personal interpretations.  I want to see the verse where it says the "Trinity is, "

Omenuko:

So, in other words you can't show me the Book, Chapter, and verse of the answer (from the Bible).  I don't want the answers of men.  Show me where is says this book and that book she be part of the bible.  Come back to me with the answer when you find it.  I won't take your personal opinions.

Omenuko:

Oh ok, so the Bible doesn't say when it was compiled.  Tough, you don't want to put your personal opinion for this question?  No answer, fine.

Omenuko:

Oh my, so you mean to say you practice holidays (based on pagan holidays: winter and summer solstice) and your fine with that.  You celebrate holidays that are totally non-biblical and you are fine with that.  My friend, I worry for you soul.  Traditions of men.

Omenuko:

Another tradition of men.  Show me scripture please.  I don't want your opinion.  

Omenuko:

Yes, next indeed.  Show me these things from the Bible.  I'll help you out, you don't have to use my bible (Catholic one), you can use yours (Protestant one).

Omenuko:

My friend, Hebrews was written after the suffering, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So, you go back and read your bible. They received their promise after the resurrection.

Old testament Heroes (OTH) ----->resurrection of Jesus-------> OTH receive promise --------> Book of Hebrews written

Make sense?

Omenuko:

God was talking to (Himself, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit). Now you want to say the Bible was silent. So you can't link read Luke 15:7 and Hebrew 12:1 together? Why not pray to God and ask him to reveal to you what he meant in those passages, since you say the Bible is silent.

where is the use of the rosary sanctioned in the bible?

Where did God expressly tell you to go compile a bible and put so and so books there?
this is a plainly dishonest question catholics have been trained by rota to repeat like a broken record (lady, imhotep all rushed to grab the same questions each time they were faced with their questionable dogma).

I said it and i repeat again . . . if i throw away my bible and simply have the dead sea scrolls available to me i believer strongly that i will be judged based on the word that was available to me at the time. The thief on the cross read not a shred of the torah or the gospels neither did he go listen to Christ yet he made heaven.

Keep asking the questions that hold no water.

The bible is a compilation . . . it is the letters that make it up that are more significant. Christ had only the law and the prophets in his days. the early apostles had the law, prophets and the epistles . . .

man's compilation is of no consequence to God. period.

Point of correction . . . i don't PRACTICE a holiday, i observe a holiday officially set aside to remember an occassion that is supposed to be part of your daily work with God. I mentioned earlier . . . the communion is VERY BIBLICAL . . . we are not expressly told what and what dates to observe it so we do it when and as often as we want . . . IN REMEMBRANCE OF HIM. The spiritual significance is what matters.

don't worry for my soul, be worried about urs.

Omenuko:

It seems you're confused because you're asking for two things:
- doctrine of trinity (rosary)
- where in the bible does the word "trinity"("rosary) appear.

Omenuko:

How is the question dishonest? Ok, let me rephrase my question, how do you know the books in your Bible are inspired?

Omenuko:

More non-scriptural support. Just say it, the Bible doesn't say which books should be in the Bible, simple. In other words, you are following the traditions of men.

Omenuko:

Blah blah blah, you observe a holiday that is non-biblical. And you worship on the day of the Sun, when pagans worshiped the sun god.

Omenuko:

Here it is again - where is the use (term) of the rosary (trinity) sanctioned in the bible?

no, because i don't believe in reading the bible in isolation. Remember that the division into chapters was essentially not by Paul but made by those who "compiled" the bible.

don't read Heb 12 until you have at least read from Heb 6. It is one smooth flowing story . . . its not long . . . perhaps that way you get the full picture rather than building a theology on Heb 11:40b!

You haven't said anything new but rehash what i just said. the old testament heroes did not receive the promise of Heb 11:39 because they died before the perfect sacrifice. We who come after the perfect sacrifice are the ones who receive the promise even though we arent dead yet Heb 11:40.

What is new?

Rubbish my dear . . . rubbish. Did Luke 15:7 tell you that those rejoicing in heaven over the salvation of one person on earth where dead saints?
You're basically linking 2 completely unrelated verses together to force a false theology.

The devil has been around for 6000 years.

2 tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

It is possible that we do not have "ALL scripture" . . . but God is faithful in that we are only judged on the revelation available to us at this time. I reiterate . . . Lazarus the beggar could probably not afford his own torah, Abraham didnt even have any laws to live by and yet God was faithful to keep them.

Because the bible is the work of man. God didnt commission the compilation. God didnt tell Paul or Peter to do so. He merely moved on them to write letters to the church which man now put together in one volume . . . why then do you expect such instruction in the bible?

No ma'am . . . to claim that reading the bible is the traditions of men is FALSEHOOD. Its like saying that Shakespeares works are no longer his since he didnt compile it into one volume himself. That is laughably stupid and a lie of the devil.

I say it again, throw away your bible and simply pick the parchments of the dead sea scrolls, you'D be virtually reading the same thing. I know you can't understand, You're basically "asking" pre-programmed questions.

I worship everyday. We gather together on one generally accepted day . . .

~Lady~:

THAT THE APOSTLES DIDN'T TEACH CHRISTIAN VIRTUES.

~Lady~:

Tell him to produce the scripture that Jesus and the apostles used to preach the gospel, he won't because he cannot.

Omenuko:

Are you kidding me? So Tim. 3:16 tells me what scriptures are inspired. Tim. 3:16 tells me what books in the New Testament are inspired. It tells me what Old Testament Books are inspired. My friend, go and find the correct passage, I beg.

I beg, show me Bible verse and stop writing essay.

Accepted by who Men (Traditions of Men). Show me Bible verse.

ROTFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

omenuko, don't mind David, if you ask him question now he won't know how to answer, all he knows is to start rouble and misinterpret the Bible.

I DON'T KNOW WHY I EVEN BOTHER WITH A MAN THAT SAID THERE ARE NO LONGER 10 COMMANDMENTS, AND THAT THE APOSTLES DIDN'T TEACH CHRISTIAN VIRTUES.

Tell him to produce the scripture that Jesus and the apostles used to preach the gospel, he won't because he cannot.
Watch him skip over bringing scripture, instead he's going to go on asking the same questions.

Omenuko:

Ok, since you are stubborn, go and read any Bible commentary on those verses and come back and present what you found.  Are you saying that Paul (at this moment) believed that the Heroes of the Old Testament were not in Heaven at the time he was writing this book (after the resurrection of Christ)?

All the passage is saying is that we as Christian (so long as we persevere in the faith) will have greater reward in heaven than those of the old testament.

Omenuko:

I think once you go and read other scripture scholars take on the Hebrews passage you will have a different take.

Where is the rosary commanded in the bible?

Omenuko:

I know. . .

Omenuko:

@Davidylan,

Just as you will not find the word 'trinity' in the Bible, likewise you won't find the word 'rosary' in the Bible.  The Rosary prayer are comprised of a series of meditation/contemplations on the Gospel.  Basically, we call them mysteries.  The mysteries are as follow: Joyful, Sorrowful, Glorious, and Luminous.  Each Mystery calls us to reflect on the Gospel.