Could someone please explain the catholic tradition of confessing your sins to a priest,who is also a human being?Because the bible says if you(personally) confess your sins to God and forsake them,He will forgive you.So why do catholics say one has to go through a priest,when the bible teaches going through Jesus?And only on saturdays,at that.

Catholics are following their tradition. . .which unfortunately doesn't always line up with the bible. They're in their own world. And it's sad too many of them do not even realize the fallacies and contradictions to the word of God Almighty that their church preaches and teaches.
Last yr the pope came out and said that "hell exists". . .as the previous popes had declared hell "was a state of mind", and not really a physical place. Maybe the next pope will change his mind too

I guess to catholics the word of the pope carries more weight than that of God himself. How sad.

How do u interpret this ->

John 20: 22-23

22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 “If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

ah yes our John 20:22 verse that is used to support the notion priests can forgive sins:

First and above all if you were to say man/priests can forgive sins that would directly contradict tons of other scriptures that teach God alone forgives sins.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Mark 11:25
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."

Ps 103:2 Praise the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits, who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases

Micah 7:18
Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy.

Matthew 6:14
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins[b], your Father will not forgive your sins[/b].

Secondly,
 The verse does not say "roman catholic priests are hereby endowed with the authority to forgive sins".
How did the catholic church reach that conclusion and what gives them the power to say that its priests are the chosen ones that can forgive sins?

 3. The apostles were not priests, they did not do any sacrificing or anything so no one can come here and say catholics are descended from the apostles.
 Furthermore we have the book of acts were the first church grew and organized, we see no hint or evidence whatsoever of the saints confessing their sins to the apostles or church leaders.
 If Jesus really gave them the power to forgive sins, how come they never exercised it? how come they never acknowledged it in any of their letters? gospels? in practice? meaning they were disobedient. Right?

4. Read in context the words of Jesus. He was giving over to His disciples the ministry of reconciliation, the message of God. They were to go out and preach. And if anyone accepted their message they were forgiven, if anyone didn't they weren't.
 It's not saying the disciples were placed in charge in forgiving people of their sins, read the verse in context and try to understand what Jesus was really saying. He breathed on them in verse 22, significant of Him giving them His spirit and then he gave them their ministry - to preach the gospel.


 There, this should shatter any misuse or misinterpretation of John 20:23

Horus,
why do you persist in posting inciendiary responses? I know it's a forum and there's freedom of speech but that's not really necessary. abeg eh.

@JeSoul
You're a good bible scholar And lemme add this to that list
John 14:6
Jesus said unto him,''I am the Way,the Truth, and the Life; no man [/b]comes unto the Father,[b]but by me''

JeSoul:

4. Read in context the words of Jesus. He was giving over to His disciples the ministry of reconciliation, the message of God. They were to go out and preach. And if anyone accepted their message they were forgiven, if anyone didn't they weren't.
It's not saying the disciples were placed in charge in forgiving people of their sins, read the verse in context and try to understand what Jesus was really saying. He breathed on them in verse 22, significant of Him giving them His spirit and then he gave them their ministry - to preach the gospel.

There, this should shatter any misuse or misinterpretation of John 20:23

A) The ministry of reconciliation involves repentance and forgiveness of sins. Jesus was not speaking allegorically or figuratively.
You cannot forgive a sin you do not know of. Christ's authority to forgive sins is delegated to his disciples.


Matt 16: 18-19
18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

There is nothing figurative in these words of Jesus.


B) The disciples are priests of the new covenant. Priests like Melchizedek (who offered bread and wine and to whom Abraham paid tithes in the book of Genesis.)

Jesus Himself is a priest like Melchizedek (Heb 7:17 --> For it is attested of Him, “YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK.”)

Paul was to write many hears later ->

1 Corinthians 10:16 --->
"16 Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ?"

Also, the whole of John chapter 6 is devoted to his offering body and blood for the salvation of all. He speaks in terms of BREAD and WINE --->

John 6: 53 - 60 ==>
53 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

54 Whoever eats 1my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.

55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.

58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever."

59 These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
60 Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?"


--------------------
Jesus was not mincing words here. Its either you believe him, or you do not. Many people stopped following Him because of this.



C) This is why Catholic Church is very concerned about APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION. No street man can just wake up and usurp authority because he mis-read one or two bible passages. Many have tried and failed though. The Catholic Church waxes stronger from millenium to millenium.

Thanks Imhotep,
Obviously the spirit of God is with you and dwells in you, please enlighten them more,

@Cassiel et all
If it so bothers you why the Catholics confess their sins to the Preists, then go jump off the thrid mainland bridge, that way you will easily get to our Lord Jesus and ask Him,

What of others that don't even bother confessing their sins, why not worry over them, why waste your strength on Catholics, since we've refused to listen to you, why not dust your feet and move on to maybe the Traditional worshippers and others in dire need of Salvation

We are ok with our faith,

As for Huros,
No matter what you paint and psot here, it doesn't change a thing,
Remember the theif at night does not hit where there's nothing valuabe, he goes where the treasure is,

You all know that there's treasure, a big one indeed in the catholic church which you cannot have, and so you're determined to steal it, But sorry oh, Ndo, we will not allow you to, but you could stil keep trying oh,

Pele,

May God help you all, and May He forgive your ignorance,

Long live the Catholic Church,

If you're not happy go hit your head on a nearby rock, or better still somersault from the third mainland brigge,

May the issue on the Catholic church not choke some of you,

imhotep:

How do u interpret this ->

John 20: 22-23

22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 “If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

This OBVIOUSLY means that ANY believer can forgive sins on God's behalf as men on the earth. Any person who thinks that the Priests are the only men that can forgive my sins shouldn't be called human. Their reasoning capacity is categorically a disgrace to the human race. It's just plain dishonesty, there is nothing else you want to call it so catholics please dont start attacking me.

Catholic threads everywhere on Nairaland?  I sincerely believe that this Catholic must be the right place.   I have no doubt about it because the way the church is becoming stronger and stronger despite all criticisms has reached to a point where any discerning mind that truly wants to serve God without yearning for fake miracles need to try Catholic Church.  You know why, mere mortal cannot pull down whatever God has ordained.  This is the reason why I said catholic must be the right place.

Please read:

James 5:16
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

I hope we all agree that faults also mean sins.
What I like most about Xtianity is the encouragement to come to a personal understanding and relationship with God based on careful study of His word. Hence various denominations with different emphasis.
Those who feel comfortable and convinced about confessing to a priest will not be out of line with all the scriptures quoted in this thread to date. We seem to forget that since the priests are men like us they already qualify to receive such confessions. If you prefer to confess to a non-priest, you will still be in conformity with teh scriptures.
I doub if the catholic requirement is that you must only confess your sisns to the priest. I stand to be corrected.
In any case, it is better to confess one's sins, directly to God or to one another, rather than continue in self delusion of abundant grace. As the saying goes:

A problem (sin) that is identified is half resolved.

Cassiel:

@JeSoul
You're a good bible scholar And let me add this to that list
John 14:6
Jesus said unto him,''I am the Way,the Truth, and the Life; no man [/b]comes unto the Father,[b]but by me''

    I wish I were a scholar! still got a long ways to go. But thanks girl!

  Imhotep,
  LOL. . . I like the way you skipped over #1, 2 and 3 in my first response.

    So I'll repeat them briefly before going on to your post:
1. Millions of scriptures teach us God only forgives sins. Catholics say priests can forgive and this DIRECTLY contradicts the word of God.

2.John 20:23 does not declare roman catholic priests to be the ones that can forgive sins. How did the catholic church get and bestow that title on themselves?

3.Furthermore we have the book of acts were the first church grew and organized, we see no hint or evidence whatsoever of the saints confessing their sins to the apostles or church leaders.
  If Jesus really gave them the power to forgive sins, how come they never exercised it? how come they never acknowledged it in any of their letters? gospels? in practice?

Now moving onto 4, which you tried to debunk:

imhotep:

A) The ministry of reconciliation involves repentance and forgiveness of sins. Jesus was not speaking allegorically or figuratively.
You cannot forgive a sin you do not know of. Christ's authority to forgive sins is delegated to his disciples.


Matt 16: 18-19
18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

There is nothing figurative in these words of Jesus.

and neither is there anything there to suggest forgiveness of sins had been passed on to the disciples! You're reading the verse out of context and ignoring the preceding verses in 20, 21, 22 and the circumstances in which Jesus made that statement.
  Again if Jesus really gave them the power, how come they never used it? taught about it? wrote it in the gospels/letters?

B) The disciples are priests of the new covenant. Priests like Melchizedek (who offered bread and wine and to whom Abraham paid tithes in the book of Genesis.)

  The disciples were NOT priests, the bible does not suggest that anywhere. Please provide the relevant scripture that states they were.
  And who's to say it's the catholic church that descended from the apostles and hence are priests too? Imagine the arrogance.

Jesus Himself is a priest like Melchizedek (Heb 7:17 --> For it is attested of Him, “YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK.”)

   Yes Jesus is a priest. No arguement there.

Paul was to write many hears later ->

1 Corinthians 10:16 --->
"16 Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ?"

Also, the whole of John chapter 6 is devoted to his offering body and blood for the salvation of all. He speaks in terms of BREAD and WINE --->

John 6: 53 - 60 ==>
53 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

54 Whoever eats 1my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.

55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.

58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever."

59 These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
60 Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?"


--------------------
Jesus was not mincing words here. Its either you believe him, or you do not. Many people stopped following Him because of this.

  and how exactly does all the above support the notion priests can forgive sins?

C) This is why Catholic Church is very concerned about APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION. No street man can just wake up and usurp authority because he mis-read one or two bible passages. Many have tried and failed though. The Catholic Church waxes stronger from millenium to millenium.

  Again who's to say the catholic church is directly descended from the apostles? what gives the church that right so make such a claim?
  and even if they were, the the disciples WERE NOT PRIESTS, the bible does not teach that. Maybe the catholic extra-biblical materials contain such BUT THEY WOULD BE IN DIRECT CONTRADICTION TO THE WORD OF GOD, the bible. So hence fit to be declared heresy.

Biafran:

@Cassiel et all
If it so bothers you why the Catholics confess their sins to the Preists, then go jump off the thrid mainland bridge, that way you will easily get to our Lord Jesus and ask Him,

instead of reacting this way, how about you disprove the topic biblically? Prove by discussion and argument that what the topic is saying is wrong. Unless of course you can't!

What of others that don't even bother confessing their sins, why not worry over them, why waste your strength on Catholics, since we've refused to listen to you, why not dust your feet and move on to maybe the Traditional worshippers and others in dire need of Salvation

Sweetie, there is no difference btw a catholic who's confessed to a priest and someone who hasn't confessed at all!
You're confessing to a man, that does not have the authority to forgive sins. So therefore your sins are not forgiven and makes you no different from one who's not even asked for forgiveness.

We are ok with our faith,

but that will not stop the rest of us biblical christians from pointing out the multitude of false and heretic teachings the catholic church holds on to.
Sure the catholic church might grow and grow and get richer and richer, that does not mean a thang! The bible says wide is the road that leads to destruction and a multitude are on it. and that in the last days men will go after their own philosophies and gather round a great number of false doctrine teachers.

Have you ever really compared the teachings of the catholic church in the light of the bible? If you did, you'd be shocked. there's no need for you to tell people to go kill themselves when they challenge you and you can't repond biblically.

seguno2:

Please read:

James 5:16
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.I hope we all agree that faults also mean sins.

  You made good points & yeah I guess you could say faults could be sins. It could just be something I struggle with, or somewhere I fall short. However I'd like to make the distinction here that the confession of faults to one another is not for the purpose of getting forgiveness from the other person.
But moreso we could understand and pray for each other better.

Those who feel comfortable and convinced about confessing to a priest will not be out of line with all the scriptures quoted in this thread to date.

  yes they will! because they're confessing in order to get forgivness from those sins! when the bible already tells us only God can forgive sin. That's a direct contradition.

@Jesoul

I shall tackle your problem  from the roots ->

1)  This bible you protestants keep screaming (and mis-interpreting) about was approved by a meeting of Catholic bishops in the year 393 AD (See -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synod_of_hippo) . No protestant understands the bible better than the Catholic Church that approved it.

If these bishops approved the bible you now practically sleep with, why do you use this same bible to attack them so ferociously There is something amisss here.

2)  What are the results of protestant biblical scholarship ->

"There are over 33,000 [protestant] denominations in 238 countries  and every year there is a net increase of around 270 to 300 denominations" (see  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant#Denominations)

If protestants alone were entrusted with spreading the Gospel, the message of Christ would have died 1,000 years ago; because each family would have become a church unto itself. Every community/church will be in disagreement with every other community/church. The truth of Christ will be smothered in the heat of arguments and bickering.  Non-christians will percieve christians as a quarrelsome group in which each person seeks supremacy for his/her own benefit.

This is in stark contrast to what Jesus wants for his followers (see John 17:8-26) ==>

""I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.

And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me"

3)   Jesus Our Lord knows human nature too well.  Thank Him for telling Peter (Matthew 16:18): "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church".

He foresaw our confusion and settled it long in advance.

4)  The Catholic Church has been a force to reckon with for over 2000 years. The protestants keep dividing and this-integrating. The protestants obviously have a lot to learn.

imhotep:

3)   Jesus Our Lord knows human nature too well.  Thank Him for telling Peter (Matthew 16:18): "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church".

He foresaw our confusion and settled it long in advance.

you are talking about the Satanic Peter and Catholicism
Matthew 10:5, KJV
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

However, Peter did the exact opposite of what Jesus taught and went farther north on the Mediterranean Coast to Caesarea[b] (Acts 10:1-11, 18)[/b] where he converted Cornelius, a Centurion, which is also known as the Italian cohort[b] (Acts 10:1)[/b]. Thus, Peter “extended the church” by introducing Gentiles in, and also led the twelve Apostles into the ways of the Gentiles.
When Jesus said in Matthew 16:18, and I quote, “and I say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Was Jesus saying that upon Peter he would build his church as Roman Catholics believe? . . . The name Peter is Petrus in Greek and is translated as “rock.” From this it cannot be concluded that Peter was the rock that Jesus was speaking of because after he addressed Peter he says, and I quote, “And I say unto you, thou art Peter . . .” He didn’t say “upon you I’ll build my church.” Clearly he wasn’t addressing Peter or any of his disciples. However, Roman Catholics have managed to twist Jesus’ word to justify their claim that Peter was the first Pope.

However, if you read on a little further, you will see where Jesus calls Peter “Satan.”

Matthew 16:23, KJV
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

The fact is, the more you learn about the Roman Catholic Church, the more you can see how Satanic it is.

imhotep:

@Jesoul

I shall tackle your problem from the roots ->

1) This bible you protestants keep screaming (and mis-interpreting) about was approved by a meeting of Catholic bishops in the year 393 AD (See -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synod_of_hippo) . No protestant understands the bible better than the Catholic Church that approved it.

If these bishops approved the bible you now practically sleep with, why do you use this same bible to attack them so ferociously There is something amisss here.

2) What are the results of protestant biblical scholarship ->

"There are over 33,000 [protestant] denominations in 238 countries and every year there is a net increase of around 270 to 300 denominations" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant#Denominations)

If protestants alone were entrusted with spreading the Gospel, the message of Christ would have died 1,000 years ago; because each family would have become a church unto itself. Every community/church will be in disagreement with every other community/church. The truth of Christ will be smothered in the heat of arguments and bickering. Non-christians will percieve christians as a quarrelsome group in which each person seeks supremacy for his/her own benefit.

This is in stark contrast to what Jesus wants for his followers (see John 17:8-26) ==>

""I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.

And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me"

3) Jesus Our Lord knows human nature too well. Thank Him for telling Peter (Matthew 16:18): "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church".

He foresaw our confusion and settled it long in advance.

4) The Catholic Church has been a force to reckon with for over 2000 years. The protestants keep dividing and this-integrating. The protestants obviously have a lot to learn.

Of everything you said above, you said[u] absolutely NOTHING based on scripture [/u]to refute that fact that the catholic teachings STILL contradicts the bible!

You are not addressing that fact! but you keep on giving other technical insignificants.

This bible you protestants keep screaming (and mis-interpreting) about was approved by a meeting of Catholic bishops in the year 393 AD (See -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synod_of_hippo) . No protestant understands the bible better than the Catholic Church that approved it.

If these bishops approved the bible you now practically sleep with, why do you use this same bible to attack them so ferociously There is something amisss here.

Actually I throw that question back at you!
If the priests really put the scriptures together how come they didn't think to make it agree and be in harmony with the bible? how come they never thot "oh wait! some of our teachings directly contradict this bible?"

"There are over 33,000 [protestant] denominations in 238 countries and every year there is a net increase of around 270 to 300 denominations" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant#Denominations)

If protestants alone were entrusted with spreading the Gospel, the message of Christ would have died 1,000 years ago; because each family would have become a church unto itself. Every community/church will be in disagreement with every other community/church. The truth of Christ will be smothered in the heat of arguments and bickering. Non-christians will percieve christians as a quarrelsome group in which each person seeks supremacy for his/her own benefit.

We're not disscussing the many shortcomings of the protestant denomination. Stop trying to deflect the spotlight off the catholic church's misuse and abuse of the bible.
The fact that protestants have had their issues doesn't mean anything. The church is made of human beings, it has never been perfect and it will never be perfect.

The Catholic Church has been a force to reckon with for over 2000 years. The protestants keep dividing and this-integrating. The protestants obviously have a lot to learn.

the catholic church might very well continue to grow, so what? that does not mean anything. Everyday the gay and homosexual community grows, violence increases, govt steals and grows stronger, does that mean they're doing the right thing?
again Jesus said "wide is the highway that leads to destruction, and many are they on it". Just cos the catholic church has numbers means absolutely nada.

@Jesoul

Jesoul:
Actually I throw that question back at you!
If the priests really put the scriptures together how come they didn't think to make it agree and be in harmony with the bible? how come they never thot "oh wait! some of our teachings directly contradict this bible?"

1)  There is nothing figurative or allegorical about this ->

John 20: 22-23

22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 “If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

Claiming that it contradicts OT  passages is not an argument. Jesus' stance on forgiveness was at odds with "AN EYE FOR AN EYE"  of Moses. And Jesus was very very correct.

Jesoul:
We're not disscussing the many shortcomings of the protestant denomination. Stop trying to deflect the spotlight off the catholic church's misuse and abuse of the bible.
The fact that protestants have had their issues doesn't mean anything. The church is made of human beings, it has never been perfect and it will never be perfect.

The catholic church might very well continue to grow, so what? that does not mean anything. Everyday the gay and homosexual community grows, violence increases, govt steals and grows stronger, does that mean they're doing the right thing?
again Jesus said "wide is the highway that leads to destruction, and many are they on it". Just because the catholic church has numbers means absolutely nada.

2)  I am not 'yabbing' the protestants, not at all. I am only saying that they have not done a great job of interpreting the bible (even though they started out with good intentions).  If you move among non-christian circles, you will find that one obstacle to their conversion is the large number of divided and bickering christian sects they find around them. 
It is not Jesus' wish for there to be more than 33,000 denominations who do not agree with each other.

3) Lastly, Protestants believe in the concept of 'sola scriptura' (by the scriptures alone).  Can you quote one verse in the bible (which was put together by Catholic bishops) that supports this

Horus:
you are talking about the Satanic Peter and Catholicism
Matthew 10:5, KJV
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

However, Peter did the exact opposite of what Jesus taught and went farther north on the Mediterranean Coast to Caesarea (Acts 10:1-11, 18) where he converted Cornelius, a Centurion, which is also known as the Italian cohort (Acts 10:1). Thus, Peter “extended the church” by introducing Gentiles in, and also led the twelve Apostles into the ways of the Gentiles.
When Jesus said in Matthew 16:18, and I quote, “and I say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Was Jesus saying that upon Peter he would build his church as Roman Catholics believe? . . . The name Peter is Petrus in Greek and is translated as “rock.” From this it cannot be concluded that Peter was the rock that Jesus was speaking of because after he addressed Peter he says, and I quote, “And I say unto you, thou art Peter . . .” He didn’t say “upon you I’ll build my church.” Clearly he wasn’t addressing Peter or any of his disciples. However, Roman Catholics have managed to twist Jesus’ word to justify their claim that Peter was the first Pope.

However, if you read on a little further, you will see where Jesus calls Peter “Satan.”

Matthew 16:23, KJV
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

The fact is, the more you learn about the Roman Catholic Church, the more you can see how Satanic it is.

@Horus

In your case, I think you need to de-program your mind and really study the scriptures. There is an old Buddhist saying -> we do not see the world as it is, we see the world as we are.

As for your issues with Peter, you left out a number of biblical passages like ->


John 21: 15-17 ------------->
Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs."

A second time he said to him, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you." He said to him, "Tend my sheep."

He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, "Do you love me?" And he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep."

---------------------------
I would like to see how you interpret that.

@imhotep
I'm not trying to diss the catholic faith,ok?I'm just trying to understand y'all.Please answer me this.Do you people believe in speaking in other tongues?Which every good christian knows is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.So,since Jesus told his disciples to receive the Holy Spirit before giving them the power to forgive sins,and if i can speak in tongues(which thus means i have the Holy Spirit in me),why on earth can't i forgive sins?Because by virtue of being born-again,i am much more than a disciple of Christ.I am a child of God,a joint-heir with Christ.So if i am higher than a disciple,what's to stop me from forgiving sins too?My point is,the catholic way of encouraging their flock to confess their sins only to a priest,instead of directly to God isn't helping the individual spiritual lives of their flock at all.What if,for instance,the only priest in a particular parish dies?And the cathechist is not available.So noone can confess their sins till a new priest comes??Noone can pray to God on their own?And what if Jesus comes while they are awaiting a new priest.So no catholic in that parish goes to heaven at that point in time?What happens?I'm puzzled.
@seeu
i think you should understand what a denomination is about and what exactly it teaches before you decide to commit yourself to it.Never go to a church simply because its popular.Just a friendly christian advice

Cassiel:

@imhotep
I'm not trying to diss the catholic faith,ok?I'm just trying to understand y'all.Please answer me this.Do you people believe in speaking in other tongues?Which every good christian knows is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.So,since Jesus told his disciples to receive the Holy Spirit before giving them the power to forgive sins,and if i can speak in tongues(which thus means i have the Holy Spirit in me),why on earth can't i forgive sins?Because by virtue of being born-again,i am much more than a disciple of Christ.I am a child of God,a joint-heir with Christ.So if i am higher than a disciple,what's to stop me from forgiving sins too?

This is why the Church has to be Apostolic (descended from the Apostles). One can also ask - Why can I not baptize myself?

Giving in to your suggestion will lead to anarchy in the Church. The Church will ultimately disintegrate and lose the message of Christ -  the devil will be very happy.

As for speaking in tongues and all, catholic spirituality runs very deep and includes what is known as 'Mystical Theology' . I suggest you look at this site -> http://www.christianperfection.info to see a classic book. Its very deep.

Cassiel:
My point is,the catholic way of encouraging their flock to confess their sins only to a priest,instead of directly to God isn't helping the individual spiritual lives of their flock at all.What if,for instance,the only priest in a particular parish dies?And the cathechist is not available.So noone can confess their sins till a new priest comes??Noone can pray to God on their own?And what if Jesus comes while they are awaiting a new priest.So no catholic in that parish goes to heaven at that point in time?What happens?I'm puzzled.

No document of the Catholic Church says -> Thou shall not confess directly to God.

We believe that Jesus has provided a way for us to be sure that our sins are forgiven. If Jesus gives the disciples the authority to forgive sins, we will be obeying Him if we go to these disciples.

Now, in cases of emergency (say one is in a plane that is about to crash), Catholics are adviced to say their last prayers, and ask for forgiveness from God.

God always hears us, but we should not be presumptious. Its like saying, let us keep sinning, God will ALWAYS forgive. In scripture accounts, sometimes He does NOT forgive.

Cassiel:
@seeu
i think you should understand what a denomination is about and what exactly it teaches before you decide to commit yourself to it.Never go to a church simply because its popular.Just a friendly christian advice

Were you referring to me?

@imhotep
no,i wasn't referring to you,unless your username is also seeu.The person posted something earlier.I was replying it.
On the speaking in tongues issue,i'v been to some catholic churches,and trust me,nowhere during mass does anybody speak in tongues.Haven't read the book you're talking about,but if it answers my question on why catholics don't speak in tongues,i will.
Now just as you said no catholic document says 'Thou shall not confess directly to God', nowhere in the bible does it say 'Thou must confess your sins only to apostles.What i'm saying is God really wants a very close relationship with his children,on a very personal and intimate level.Confessing to a priest is kind of like putting the priest before God.And just now u said God does not always forgive.The bible says its only a sin against the Holy Spirit that cannot be forgiven.So that means God always forgives,as long as you're truly repentant and you forsake your sins.
As for Jesus providing a way for you to know your sins are forgiven,he has already stated that way in the Bible.You don't need a priest to tell you that.
1 John 1:9
But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.
And are you saying its only in cases of emergency that catholics are advised to ask God to forgive them their sins?And if a catholic sins on tuesday,he/she is supposed to carry that sin about till saturday?What if the person has a fatal car accident on wednesday on the way to work.Welcome to hell?

Cassiel:

@imhotep
no,i wasn't referring to you,unless your username is also seeu.The person posted something earlier.I was replying it.
On the speaking in tongues issue,i'v been to some catholic churches,and trust me,nowhere during mass does anybody speak in tongues.Haven't read the book you're talking about,but if it answers my question on why catholics don't speak in tongues,i will.

Mass is a celebration of the Lord's supper. It is no ocassion for speaking in tongues.

Speaking in tongues, prophecies, visions, locutions, stigmata, levitation,  etc etc are classified under Mystical Theology in the Catholic Church. An extensive study has been done on all these issues over hundreds of years. You will need to read the Church documents on these before making further comments.

Cassiel:
Now just as you said no catholic document says 'Thou shall not confess directly to God', nowhere in the bible does it say 'Thou must confess your sins only to apostles.What i'm saying is God really wants a very close relationship with his children,on a very personal and intimate level.Confessing to a priest is kind of like putting the priest before God.And just now u said God does not always forgive.The bible says its only a sin against the Holy Spirit that cannot be forgiven.So that means God always forgives,as long as you're truly repentant and you forsake your sins.
As for Jesus providing a way for you to know your sins are forgiven,he has already stated that way in the Bible.You don't need a priest to tell you that.
1 John 1:9
But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.

Jesus said ->
John 20: 22-23

22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 “If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

Jesus' authority is much higher than that of Moses, Paul, John, Peter or any other person. Only God can forgive sins. If He chooses to forgive sins through somebody, He is still the one forgiving.

Cassiel:
And are you saying its only in cases of emergency that catholics are advised to ask God to forgive them their sins?

Yes. Whether in confession or outside confession - it is still God that forgives.

Cassiel:
And if a catholic sins on tuesday,he/she is supposed to carry that sin about till saturday?

Catholics confess anytime - not necessarily saturday. The bottomline is that they should really be sorry for the sins. God does not despise a humble, contrite heart (Ps 150).

Cassiel:
What if the person has a fatal car accident on wednesday on the way to work.Welcome to hell?

Not necessarily. We are advised to always be sorry and ask God's pardon. A good catholic will know when he has sinned and will immediately ask God for pardon.

God sees the heart and knows the intentions. This is why many liturgical and personal prayers in the Catholic church contain portions asking God for forgiveness of sins.

For instance
- I confess to almighty God etc etc (said at the beginning of Mass)
- I ask Your  pardon for my sins etc etc (a prayer before personal meditation)
and many many others.

Still, to avoid the evil of presumption, catholics are advised to go for confession whenever possible.

@Imhotep
You obliviously didn't read your own bible.
Go to Matthew 16:23,KJV  to see how your Jesus call Peter:Satan

Matthew 16:23, KJV
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

imhotep,
*shaking my head* you have STILL not addressed the fact that the catholic teaching DIRECTLY contradicts hundreds of scriptures that teach us GOD ONLY can forgive sins. I care little whether it was catholic priests or not that assembled the bible.
WHY DOES CATHOLIC TEACHING CONTRADICT THE BIBLE? you're quoting only John 20 and forgetting every other scripture that contradicts your conclusion that priests can forgive sins.

Claiming that it contradicts OT passages is not an argument. Jesus' stance on forgiveness was at odds with "AN EYE FOR AN EYE" of Moses. And Jesus was very very correct.Claiming that it contradicts OT passages is not an argument. Jesus' stance on forgiveness was at odds with "AN EYE FOR AN EYE" of Moses. And Jesus was very very correct.

ha you're funny, I can't believe you're trying to use this argument.
Jesus specifically said, "you have heard it said before, but now a new commandment I give you. . ."
Jesus specifically said he was changing the way things had been done, he was giving them a NEW LAW different from the old one. So therefore there's nothing remotely close to contradicting anything.

2. You have STILL not addressed the fact that the disciples NEVER EVER practised their "Jesus given" authority to forgive sins, they never spoke about this authority, they never used it or taught about it. But yet hundreds of yrs later a "church" emerges and claims to have been given this same power?

2) I am not 'yabbing' the protestants, not at all. I am only saying that they have not done a great job of interpreting the bible (even though they started out with good intentions). If you move among non-christian circles, you will find that one obstacle to their conversion is the large number of divided and bickering christian sects they find around them.
It is not Jesus' wish for there to be more than 33,000 denominations who do not agree with each other.

I can agrew with that. BUT I'M MORE CERTAIN HE'D BE MORE UPSET THAT HIS WORDS WERE BEING ABUSED AND MISUSED.

[QUOTE]3) Lastly, Protestants believe in the concept of 'sola scriptura' (by the scriptures alone). Can you quote one verse in the bible (which was put together by Catholic bishops) that supports this
[/quote]
Rev 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Jesoul:
imhotep,
    *shaking my head* you have STILL not addressed the fact that the catholic teaching DIRECTLY contradicts hundreds of scriptures that teach us GOD ONLY can forgive sins. I care little whether it was catholic priests or not that assembled the bible.
   WHY DOES CATHOLIC TEACHING CONTRADICT THE BIBLE? you're quoting only John 20 and forgetting every other scripture that contradicts your conclusion that priests can forgive sins.

Not Catholic Teaching but the words of Christ himself.
John 20: 22-23 ->

22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 “If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

No other scriptural text can be more powerful or reliable than the very words of Christ. Its either He was saying the truth or He was lying.

The Jews also beefed Jesus for forgiving the paralytic - "How can this man forgive sins. Only God can forgive"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus passed on His authority to forgive sins to his disciples. Like I said earlier, this is why the Catholic Church is concerned about APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION. Our college of bishops can trace their roots HISTORICALLY to the disciples.

Jesoul:
ha you're funny, I can't believe you're trying to use this argument.
Jesus specifically said, "you have heard it said before, but now a new commandment I give you. . ."
Jesus specifically said he was changing the way things had been done, he was giving them a NEW LAW different from the old one. So therefore there's nothing remotely close to contradicting anything.

   2. You have STILL not addressed the fact that the disciples NEVER EVER practised their "Jesus given" authority to forgive sins, they never spoke about this authority, they never used it or taught about it. But yet hundreds of years later a "church" emerges and claims to have been given this same power?

There are thousands of historical documents that outline the modus operandi of the early church long before the bible was approved. This is why I asked whether 'sola scriptura' can be shown to be a verse in the bible.

Jesoul:
Rev 22:18  I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

This refers ONLY to the book of Revelation, not to the entire bible. Besides, the bible was put together and approved about 230 years AFTER the book of Revelation was written.

------------------------------------------------------------------
By the way, Martin Luther, the oga pata pata of the protestants (and the originator of sola scriptura), also practiced confession in his own way (see -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confession#Lutheranism)

think that practice should have expired by now

imhotep:

Not Catholic Teaching but the words of Christ himself.

  No it is NOt the teaching of Christ! or else Christ would be contradicting the rest of the word of God - which is impossible!
   It is the twisted teaching of the words of Christ by the catholic church.

John 20: 22-23 ->

No other scriptural text can be more powerful or reliable than the very words of Christ. Its either He was saying the truth or He was lying.

   Are you now saying that the direct words of Christ carry more weight than the other parts of the bible!
I have news for you: ALL the word of God is equally important and relevant and potent and EQUAL!
  Paul's writings vs Peter's writings vs. Isiah's writing vs. Jesus words are ALL THE WORDS OF GOD!!! neither is less important than the other because they all come from God himself. You cannot just quote John 20 and ignore the other verses that contradict your conclusion! whether they come isiah or Moses- it is all the word of God.

The Jews also beefed Jesus for forgiving the paralytic - "How can this man forgive sins. Only God can forgive"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  I'm not beefing Jesus' authority. Jesus IS GOD! the jews just didn't know that fact.

Jesus passed on His authority to forgive sins to his disciples. Like I said earlier, this is why the Catholic Church is concerned about APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION.

  No He did not!
why do other scriptures loudly and clearly and explicitly teach that only God can forgive sins? One portion of scripture cannot directly contradict another whether it was Jesus' words or Jeremiah or Job or Moses. Scripture cannot contradict scripture! it's impossible.

Our college of bishops can trace their roots HISTORICALLY to the disciples.
There are thousands of historical documents that outline the modus operandi of the early church long before the bible was approved.

    But all these thousands of books are not holy scriptures, they are not divinely inspired by God and hence cannot be accepted as resolute. All we have are those 66books. And any other book that presents a teaching contradictory to it is straight up heretical.
And no, the catholic church did not give us the scriptures. They're using their own documents to prove what they're claiming! how crazy is that?

This is why I asked whether 'sola scriptura' can be shown to be a verse in the bible.
This refers ONLY to the book of Revelation, not to the entire bible. Besides, the bible was put together and approved about 230 years AFTER the book of Revelation was written.

   my brotha isn't this really very basic?
If any extrabiblical writing DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS the word of God doesn't that immediately raise red flags?

By the way, Martin Luther, the oga pata pata of the protestants (and the originator of sola scriptura), also practiced confession in his own way (see -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confession#Lutheranism)

  You musta noticed by now I care little for what other people whether historically famous christians or not thought or did. I care about the bible. My standard is the 66 books of the bible and whether or not our actions align with its commandments.

olrotimi:

think that practice should have expired by now

Abi o. Not just that practice alone, add praying to the saints, praying to and worshipping mary, throwing out the teaching mary remained a virgin, purgatory, etc. . .

JeSoul:

Abi o. Not just that practice alone, add praying to the saints, praying to and worshipping mary, throwing out the teaching mary remained a virgin, purgatory, etc. . .

Another addition to the list- praying to statues!

the catholic church might very well continue to grow, so what? that does not mean anything. Everyday the gay and homosexual community grows, violence increases, govt steals and grows stronger, does that mean they're doing the right thing?

WORD!!! LOL

The same questions over and over again. . . . its quite simple really[b] you ask.[/b] we answer. but we just dont say wat you want to hear so you ask again. . . . this has gone one for centuries give it a break!

we do A [/b]you want to do [b]B. You break out to do B satisfaction? NEVER! you want to come and cause problems for the doers of A!!

if christianity is all about righteousnesss and the kingdom of heaven shouldnt we all be busy serving God? why leave ur faith, prayers and beliefs to go and condemn others? i dont know about you all but this is very clear to me. IT IS THE DEVILS PLAN. so please go to your side and we will stay in our side on the last day we shall see kwo?

stop causing trouble for the fellow children of God. is it too much to ask?