So it is acknowleged now that the Catholic is a different Creature.

i will confess my sins to God
if it is smthing i have to tell others about , i will.

But thank God i dont have to chant some Hail Marys and Our Fathers

Gamine:

So it is acknowleged now that the Catholic is a different Creature.

i will confess my sins to God
if it is smthing i have to tell others about , i will.

But thank God i don't have to chant some Hail Marys and Our Fathers

Now you are getting dogmatic on us.

Dogmatic?

You have got to be kidding me

Gamine:

So it is acknowleged now that the Catholic is a different Creature.

i will confess my sins to God
if it is smthing i have to tell others about , i will.

But thank God i don't have to chant some Hail Marys and Our Fathers

In terms of structure, yeah the Catholic church is different. It is highly structured.

Ur own mode of confession is aiight; so is mine as far as I do it right.

God taught us "Our Father".
The angel sent by[b] God [/b] to Mary said those exact words and we turned the words of the bible into prayers. Whats ur wahala with that?
Wonder why peeps have problem with that and yet feel perfectly fine saying the psalms  

I just realized u are thanking God for not saying HIS prayers. Now that is funny

And still along those lines,

Peeps have a huge problem when I say "Holy Mary pray for me" . But then they turn around to tell me about the wonderful things that happened in thier lives after thier[b] pastors prayed for them.[/b] Am I supposed to have a problem with that?

han han

Your the same people pointing out in the bible
where priests have this kind of authority

Where in this bible does Mary have this kind of unction
that she should pray for you?

As to saying Hail marys and Our fathers;

Because The Angel said ''Hail Mary'' e don turn to prayer?

Mat 26:49 And coming up to Jesus immediately, he said, Hail, Master! And he kissed Him.

So i guess we should say that as a prayer too!

Gamine:

han han

Your the same people pointing out in the bible
where priests have this kind of authority

Where in this bible does Mary have this kind of unction
that she should pray for you?

As to saying Hail marys and Our fathers;

Because The Angel said ''Hail Mary'' e don turn to prayer?

Mat 26:49 And coming up to Jesus immediately, he said, Hail, Master! And he kissed Him.

So i guess we should say that as a prayer too!

So what is wrong with that?
U guys should stop spending so much energy and time on telling the Catholics how to and how not to pray. If u think that the way u pray serves u well, then stick to it. I have found a way to pray and until it gives me a reason to, I would not stop using that. The only difference between both of us is that I wont come to forums like this and castigate other forms of worship in the guise of defending God's words.

Gamine:

han han



Where in this bible does Mary have this kind of unction
that she should pray for you?

Same way it encourages you to ask ur pastor to pray for u. Difference is that I am including the Mother of God as one of my prayer warriors. Now what is ur problem with that Honestly, I am still waiting for one sound argument to explain to me why asking the Virgin Mary to pray for me is bad.

Moreover, thanks to technology, I have been able to extract all the verses in the bible where Mary is mentioned. You are free to add any that may have been omitted, which is very unlikely. Please go through carefully and tell us one that instructs us to ask 'our mother Mary' to pray for us 'at the hour of our their death'. Note that not all the Marys are the mother of Jesus eg Mary Magdalene.


Mt 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Mt 1:18 ¶ Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Mt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. {conceived: Gr. begotten}
Mt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. {presented: or, offered}
Mt 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
Mt 27:56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.
Mt 27:61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.
Mt 28:1 ¶ In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Mr 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. {offended: scandalized in, or, by him}
Mr 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
Mr 15:47 And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses beheld where he was laid.
Mr 16:1 ¶ And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Mr 16:9 ¶ Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Lu 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
Lu 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Lu 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Lu 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Lu 1:39 ¶ And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
Lu 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
Lu 1:46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
Lu 1:56 And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.
Lu 2:5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. {taxed: or, inrolled}
Lu 2:16 And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.
Lu 2:19 But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.
Lu 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
Lu 8:2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
Lu 10:39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.
Lu 10:42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.
Lu 24:10  It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.
Joh 11:1 ¶ Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.
Joh 11:2  (It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.)
Joh 11:19 And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.
Joh 11:20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house.
Joh 11:28 And when she had so said, she went her way, and called Mary her sister secretly, saying, The Master is come, and calleth for thee.
Joh 11:31 The Jews then which were with her in the house, and comforted her, when they saw Mary, that she rose up hastily and went out, followed her, saying, She goeth unto the grave to weep there.
Joh 11:32 Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
Joh 11:45 ¶ Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.
Joh 12:3 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment.
Joh 19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. {Cleophas: or, Clopas}
Joh 20:1 ¶  The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
Joh 20:11 ¶ But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,
Joh 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
Joh 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
Ac 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
Ac 12:12 And when he had considered the thing, he came to the house of Mary the mother of John, whose surname was Mark; where many were gathered together praying.
Ro 16:6 Greet Mary, who bestowed much labour on us.
(KJV)

@JeSoul

lol, mister never did the Catholic church say that God doesn't forgive. That is just one of the insinuations of people (most of whom have never stepped foot into a catholic church)

Ok let me straighten this out. You said that what John 20: 23 meant was that Christ was telling the disciples to preach the message and who so receives it should be forgiven. Well I will simply insert ur meaning into the passage

"whose sins you "receive the message", will be "receive the message" them, whose sins you "do not receive the message" will be "not receive the message" them"

or better yet, "who you wish to preach the message to will have their sins forgiven, but who you do not wish to preach the message to will not have their sins forgiven"
my question is why would Christ ask them to "retain" the message?
Am sorry but it doesn't make sense to me how that is talking about the message, but like I said ur interpretation is different, I just don't see how u got that, so if u will pls clarify for me, thanks.


I keep asking you to ask questions that are actually not derived from insinuations. You asked about confession to the priest I show it is written in the Bible, however, u tell me that it's not what it meant. Fine, but pls don't say that the Catholic church says that only priests can forgive and God can't. No one can forgive without the grace of God, no one can do anything without the grace of God, full stop. Also sir there is no difference between the sin committed against God and man, at least not to me. When u sin against man, u sin against God. People want to separate man from God and there is no separation. When u murder a man, u sin against him and God. When u commit fornication u sin against whomever u commit it with as well as God. When u lie, u sin against who u lied to and God. When u commit a sin, it involves man, there's no way it doesn't. So please tell me which of the sins will be against God if they include man, in one way or the other, and u want to separate them. That's the problem with us christians we always take the word to benefit us. When we clothe a man we also clothe God, but when we sin against man we don't sin against God. There is no separation. We are his creation, when we bleed, he bleeds. When we're in sorrow, he's in sorrow. When we're clothed, he's clothed. When we're fed, he's fed. When we forgive, he forgives. When we don't, he doesn't.

Please don't put words into the mouths of Catholics. Don't make me start quoting word for word the catechism because my hands will be sore and so will ur eyes from reading. It's a lot of reading to do o. Don't push me to it.

ok people I have come to the conclusion that the Bible is contradictory, so why don't we all just renounce christianity and call it a day. Won't that be ideal?
One verse says that only God can forgive, the other one says u should forgive so that God can forgive, so if only God can forgive why am I being asked to forgive?
Alright that's it we should all renounce christianity, too many contradictions, right?

I think the Bible shouldn't have been translated because it's caused too many confusion. The muslims had the right idea when they said that the Qu'ran shouldn't be translated and all should learn the language. I promise it wouldn't have caused this many confusion.

@ Gamine

thank God u don't have to say the Our Father?
I understand u not wanting to say the hail mary, but the our father too?

lol thank God u don't have to say his prayers huh, that's the way to do it.
by the way u should also drop psalm 23 and any other psalms u recite.


and please keep in mind that in the Ctholic church u are not forced to do anything, it is not complusory, because christianity is not compulsory. U are told to, but my dear God gave us all free will and we exercise it each day with the decisions we make.

@Uche

I am at a loss for words too. When they cheat on their partners, they ask for forgiveness, meanwhile men were not given the power to forgive, so why ask na? I don't understand o. When they steal, they ask forgiveness too from human beings o, it is an outrage. It is a complete outrage.

a whole lotta words, but not much sense is being made.

pls lady, just answer this simple question without going off on ridiculous tangents:

continue to quote only Jn 20 and ignore all other scriptures that contradict your conclusion, you're being very shortsighted, WHY DOES THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IGNORE ALL THE OTHER SCRIPTURE VERSES THAT TEACH GOD ONLY FORGIVES SINS? Hypocrits are notorious for picking and choosing which parts of the bible they want to believe in and that is what the catholic church is doing.

Joshua 24:19
Joshua said to the people, "You are not able to serve the LORD. He is a holy God; he is a jealous God. He will not forgive your rebellion and your sins.

2 Chronicles 7:14
if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

Psalm 25:11
For the sake of your name, O LORD, forgive my iniquity, though it is great.

Psalm 79:9
Help us, O God our Savior, for the glory of your name; deliver us and forgive our sins for your name's sake.

Ps 103:2 Praise the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits- who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases,

Ps 130:3 If you, O LORD, kept a record of sins, O Lord, who could stand? But with you there is forgiveness; therefore you are feared.

Daniel 9:19
O Lord, listen! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, hear and act! For your sake, O my God, do not delay, because your city and your people bear your Name."

Hosea 14:2
Take words with you and return to the LORD. Say to him: "Forgive all our sins and receive us graciously, that we may offer the fruit of our lips.

Micah 7:18 (Whole Chapter)
Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy

Mark 2:7
"Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

Mark 11:25
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins." But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your sins.]

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
and it goes on and on.
When Jesus taught the disciples and us to pray, he said

"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.'
Jesus himself never hinted or mentioned anything about going to a priest for forgiveness, there is no mention or hint of that heretic teaching of penance. Not one.

Please show me just 1, only 1 instance in the bible where priests or the disciples forgave the sins of anybody. Give me just one example where they practiced this so-called authority to forgive sins? show me another where penance was taught and practiced?

~Lady~:

ok people I have come to the conclusion that the Bible is contradictory, so why don't we all just renounce christianity and call it a day. Won't that be ideal?

the bible is NOT contradictory! it is the teachings of the catholic church that are contradictory when compared with parts of the bible. The problem is with YOU.

One verse says that only God can forgive, the other one says u should forgive so that God can forgive, so if only God can forgive why am I being asked to forgive?

*shaking me head*
once again there's sins/wrongs we commit against other people and those against God - how hard is this to understand. If someone cheat you, they've sinned against you and against God. They require forgiveness from you and from God. Simple as ABC. Stop drawing conclusions from faulty reasoning.

I think the Bible shouldn't have been translated because it's caused too many confusion.

There is no confusion or error or contradiction in the bible. All your problems are catholic-made. The bible is PERFECT and does not contradict each other. "for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God," (2 Pet. 1:21).
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work," (2 Tim. 3:16-17)

The great ones had the right idea when they said that the Qu'ran shouldn't be translated and all should learn the language. I promise it wouldn't have caused this many confusion.

wow the day a christian catholic uses mooslims/qoran as an example and a standard to follow, you must all recognize something is gravely wrong.
The fact you're hinting the bible should never have been translated from the originial tongue shows you don't understand that the purpose of spreading the gospel requires that it be translated and taken to every tribe and nation.

@JeSoul

lol@ u misquoting me, by the way the muslim thing is a joke, and lol @ u judging them too. It's a shame. But hey much love to u because u are God's own. I cannot sin against u and God by judging u. lol@ the fact that exactly what I said is what u said in different words. LOL@ U for thinking that the Catholic church doesn't teach that God forgives and that we ignore the other verses, (by the way we don't stand by that verse alone, there are others)

I see u've made it up in ur mind that u don't even want to reason my points, that's ok and fine with me. I live life to please God and by his grace I will continue to do so.

Thank u for ur judgement, I accept humbly.

A_K_O:

No such instruction is given.

This is the most ridiculous reason I have ever heard 

I ask my mom (yeah, I mean my biological mom) to pray for me always. Is that bad also?  I believe that the poster at one time in his or her life had asked someone to pray for him/her. This is getting funny. If that is the reason u can come up with, this shit is hilarious 

And once again, it is not required that u ask the Blessed Virgin to assist u in prayers. If u can do that all by yourself , fine. By all means go ahead. But plis stop throwing tantrums when somebody decides to recruit the Virgin to assist in prayers. It is just the same way manner u ask your Pastor to assist u to pray. The only difference is that your Pastor is only but a man and still on earth while the Lady in question was and still is the Mother of God on earth, and as the Catholics believe dwells in heaven. It is the only difference,but to me a HUGE one nonetheless. Maybe that is why I ask her to pray for me instead of asking Rev Pastor King

I cant even believe that I am in the religious section

Well all I can decipher from your post is the fact that we both have differing opinions on the status of Mary. You believe that she is the mother of God and that status makes her different from any other person who lived and is in heaven. Secondly, you intelligently shyed away from all of my other points.

Anyways, my mother on earth is different from my great grandmother in heaven. There is nothing scriptural about asking people in heaven to 'assist' us in our prayers. Again I say that no such instruction is given in the bible. The bible says nothing about Mary's status outside the earth. It is an extra-biblical construction. If you choose to do anything outside the bible, you are on your own.



P.S. Rev. Pastor King is not a representative sample of all the 'protestant' pastors/reverends. Please note that.

Confession is on #2 of the list of things I loathe in regards to the Catholic Church.

A_K_O:

Well all I can decipher from your post is the fact that we both have differing opinions on the status of Mary. You believe that she is the mother of God and that status makes her different from any other person who lived and is in heaven. Secondly, you intelligently shyed away from all of my other points.

Ok, maybe this is where I should stop and ask what do u believe in. Because it seems that both of us are completely on opposite sides. I actually thot there was some common ground. A little bit presumptous, eh?

D-reloaded:

Confession is on #2 of the list of things I loathe in regards to the Catholic Church.

Wetin be your number #1? 


And I ask again, Is it wrong to ask my mum to[b] pray for me.[/b]

So this continues. . . .

Your mum can pray for you.

Anyone can pray for a person.

That isnt equal to having a direct commune with God.

Gamine:

So this continues. . . .

Your mum can pray for you.

Anyone can pray for a person.

That isnt equal to having a direct commune with God.

So why is the issue of the Mary, the mother of Jesus praying for anybody too abstract to grasp 


b]That isnt equal to having a direct commune with God.[/b]
We all know that.

MARY IS DEAD, GEDDIT!!

This is the most explicit portion of scripture on Mary in the entire bible:

46And Mary said:
  "My soul glorifies the Lord
   47and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48for he has been mindful
     of the humble state of his servant.
  From now on all generations will call me blessed,
   49for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
     holy is his name.
50His mercy extends to those who fear him,
     from generation to generation.
51He has performed mighty deeds with his arm;
     he has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts.
52He has brought down rulers from their thrones
     but has lifted up the humble.
53He has filled the hungry with good things
     but has sent the rich away empty.
54He has helped his servant Israel,
     remembering to be merciful
55to Abraham and his descendants forever,
     even as he said to our fathers."

56Mary stayed with Elizabeth for about three months and then returned home.


There is no place in these verses or anywhere else that gives Mary the overbloated regard that she gets from certain people. The bible doesn't instruct me to ask her to pray for me. The bible does not instruct me to make or buy or pray to her statue. The bible also does not instruct me to pray the rosary. Where all these traditions originated from is unknown to me. Definately, none of them is in the bible.

About Mary being the mother of God, it sounds completely absurd to me. How can the Beginning and the End have someone that we are supposed to regard as His mother? What many people don't understand is that Jesus operated as a man while He was on the earth. Thats why the bible says 1 Corinthians 15:21
For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.

Hence, I believe that Mary is the mother of Jesus, the wife of Joseph the carpentar and not the mother of God. Have you all ever wondered why Joseph is not referred to as the father of God?

~Lady~:

@JeSoul

lol@ u misquoting me, by the way the a great one thing is a joke, and lol @ u judging them too. It's a shame. But hey much love to u because u are God's own. I cannot sin against u and God by judging u. lol@ the fact that exactly what I said is what u said in different words. LOL@ You for thinking that the Catholic church doesn't teach that God forgives and that we ignore the other verses, (by the way we don't stand by that verse alone, there are others)

I see u've made it up in your mind that u don't even want to reason my points, that's ok and fine with me. I live life to please God and by his grace I will continue to do so.

Thank u for your judgement, I accept humbly.

When a person cannot scripturally counter your argument they resort to
1. Accuse you of judging them
2. Accuse you of misinterpreting or misquoting them
3. Dance around the questions and return answers that have nuthin to do with the discussion
3. They say they'll leave, pretending to be outraged/offended

Lady,
I have offered you scriptures upon scriptures and you cannot refute even one of them. I asked one simple question - you could not answer. The truth of the fallacies of the CC are staring you in the face but you refuse to accept it. Na your own cup of tea be dat. But I pray God will let those scales fall off your eyes.

D-reloaded:

Confession is on #2 of the list of things I loathe in regards to the Catholic Church.

whats #1?

When a person cannot scripturally counter your argument they resort to
1. Accuse you of judging them
2. Accuse you of misinterpreting or misquoting them
3. Dance around the questions and return answers that have nuthin to do with the discussion
3. They say they'll leave, pretending to be outraged/offended

This is soooooooooooooooooooo true!!! I've even been guilty myself.

Mary is the mother of Jesus,
Sorry, I made the life saving mistake that Jesus is God.


Have you all ever wondered why Joseph is not referred to as the father of God?

Same reason why I have not wondered why Joseph did not concieve via the Holy Ghost.

JeSoul:


When a person cannot scripturally counter your argument they resort to
1. Accuse you of judging them
2. Accuse you of misinterpreting or misquoting them
3. Dance around the questions and return answers that have nuthin to do with the discussion
4. They say they'll leave, pretending to be outraged/offended

Now just where have i seen examples of all these before?

JeSoul:

whats #1?

Pedophilia? 

It's probably be their thing with statues, bowing to them 24/7. It bothers me, alot. Gosh you can always tell a Catholic by their homes. Bloody ridiculous, it's almost like being able to tell you just entered a juju man's lair.

#3 is the fact that a good majority worship the Pope and are in denial of it.

My list reaches 38 so let me just stop now before i get into how I'm told all non Catholics are going only going to purgatory