@JeSoul

I have given u my answers, I need not say more. I won't dance around with u like a chicken without it's head. What u fail to realise is that ur scripture DOES NOT refute my scripture, but proves it. But like I said u interpret the Bible one way and I do another. The point ur trying to prove is that the Catholic church believes that the priest HIMSELF does the forgiving, but that is a blatant LIE. I have heard so many THEORIES made up by man about the Catholic church, most of them happen to be false. I am not going to try to prove to u that what is false is in the Bible, I will show u what I believe (THAT MAN IS ABLE TO FORGIVE BY THE GRACE OF GOD, NOT WITHOUT GOD, JUST LIKE MAN LIVES BY THE GRACE OF GOD AND NOT WITHOUT GOD), but I will not try to justify a lie to u, so don't ask me to do that. I won't show u where it says in the Bible that Priests alone can forgive because that is not what the Bible says, I will however show u that it is through the Spirit of God that MAN is able to forgive, so my brother if u want to ask your ordained pastor to listen to ur confession (because we are asked to confess to each other) and PRAY for u that the LORD grants u forgiveness, then so be it.

And about the whole contraditory thing and renouncing christianity, u do see the SARCASM there don't u?

And u have judged me and the rest of the Catholic community, u labeled us evil without knowing us. I doubt u have read the catechism that u call evil, because if u have, u won't. You don't have to agree with the faith but u won't call it evil. Yes there are faltering souls in the Catholic church just like there are those in ur church, but I won't call ur church evil because of that. You have passed judgement on us and we humbly accept. Christianity is not an easy lifestyle, there will be persecution (for the catholics and non catholics), it just breaks my heart that it's my fellow christian that is persecuting me. I expect this from the atheists and muslims but not from a christian. You can have differing views but don't judge, let God be the judge of the so called evil of the Catholic church. Make sure that ur own salvation is guaranteed!!!

people asking you guys questions wanting to understand how your church came to accept these traditions is hardly "judgement"

People like to cry too much over nothing. Indulge us with "knowledge" instead of whining about judgement.

Make sure that your own salvation is guaranteed!!!

I think I am outtie. Make I go face my own wahala instead of trying to remove a speck from someone'e eye while I carry around a big log of wood.

Winter is over, no need for firewood

Gosh you can always tell a Catholic by their homes. Bloody ridiculous, it's almost like being able to tell you just entered a juju man's lair.

Sounds more to me like a judgement or even a sentence  

Lady, stop wailing. The catholic church is simply the fulfillment of the prophecy in Revelations 17.

Revelation 17 :1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great LovePeddler that sitteth upon many waters:

Now we know that the bible describes the church in feminine terms hence the use of "LovePeddler". Sitting on many waters is simply refering to a large body of people . . . you will agree with me that the catholic church is about the largest religious movement on earth.

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Now is the pope not the most revered man on earth? Even the greatest presidents on earth defer to the authority of the pope.

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

- the middle ages witnessed the greatest slaughter of christians by the catholic church ever recorded in history. Her hands still drip with the blood of the saints who died in the catacombs and in the cages of lions.

- Wow . . . till today we still wonder with great admiration . . . the catholic church is perhaps the richest religious organisation on earth.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The vatican city sits on the 7 hills of Rome.

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

These are the 10 most powerful nations that initially formed the European Union . . . Italy is a prominent member.

[size=13pt]18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.[/size]

Are we still wondering what that "city" is?

@D-reloaded

People are not asking questions anymore, people are now telling us what we are and that is judgement.
I was the one that volunteered to answer questions but homeboy already has it made up in his mind that the church is evil.
Like I posted, we're not being asked about what we actually do practice, we're being asked about what we don't practice. I'm trying to show homeboy that man can't forgive without God's spirit/grace, just like man can't do anything without God, but homeboy wants me to show him where it says that priests alone can forgive, and that in itself is not what the church teaches.

Directly from the Catechism-

THE SACRAMENT OF PENANCE AND RECONCILIATION

What is this sacrament called?

It is called the sacrament of conversion because it makes sacramentally present Jesus' call to conversion, the first step in returning to the Father from whom one has strayed by sin.

It is called the sacrament of penance, since it consecrates the Christian sinner's personal and ecclesial steps of conversion, penance, and satisfaction

It is called the sacrament of confession, since the disclosure or confession of sins to a priest is an essential element of this sacrament. In a profound sense it is also a "confession" - acknowledgment and praise- of the holiness of God and of his mercy toward sinful man.

It is called the sacrament of forgiveness, since by the priest's sacramental absolution GOD GRANTS the penitent "pardon and peace"

It is called the sacrament of reconciliation, because it imparts to the sinner the love of God who reconciles: "Be reconciled to God, 2 corinthians 5:20." He who lives by God's merciful love is ready to respond to the Lord's call: "Go; first be reconciled to your brother."

Why a sacrament of Reconciliation after baptism?

"You were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the spirit of our God, 1corinthians 6:11." One must appreciate the magnitude of the gift God has given us in the sacraments of Christian Initiation in order to grasp the degree to which sin is excluded for him who has "put on Christ. Galatians 3:27." But the apostle John also says: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us, 1 John 1:8." And the Lord himself taught us to pray: "Forgive us our trespasses, Luke 11:4," linking our forgiveness of one another's offenses to the forgiveness of our sins that God will grant us.

Only God forgives sin

Only God forgives sins. Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, "The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins" and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven, Mark 2:5, 10" Further by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name, John 20:21-23

Christ hs willed that in her prayer and life and action his whole church should be the sign and instrument of the forgiveness and reconciliation that he acquired for us at the price of his blood. But he entrusted the exercise of the power of absolution to the apostolic ministry which he charged with the "ministry of reconciliation, 2 corinthians 5:18." The apostle is sent out "on behalf of Christ" with "God making his appeal" through him and pleading: "Be reconciled to God."

The confession of Sins

The confession (or disclosure) of sins, even from a simply human point of view, frees us and facilitates our reconciliation with others. Through such an admission man looks squarely at the sins he is guilty of, takes responsibility for them, and thereby opens himself again to God and to the communion of the Church in order to make a new future possible.

Confession to a priest is an essential part of the sacrament of Penance: "All mortal sins of which penitents after a diligent self-examination are conscious must be recounted by them in confession, even if they are most secret and have been committed against the last two precepts of the Decalogue; for these sins sometimes wound the soul more grievoulsy and are more dangerous that those which are committed openly, Exodus 20:17, Mathew 5:28."

Without being strictly necessary, confession of everyday faults (venial sins) is nevertheless strongly recommended by the Church. Indeed the regular confession of our venial sins helps is form our conscience, fight against evil tendencies, let ourselves be healed by Christ and progress in the life of the Spirit. By receiving more frequently through this sacrament the gift of the Father's mercy, we are spurned to be merciful as he is merciful.


I hope this helps those who care. But I am sure the are those who will read something else into it and twist it around. Anyway this is it, u decide for urself. If u still hate the church because of this, then ok, if u don't then ok. There's nothing I can do anymore. I have defended her to the best of my ability. God please do the rest.

@4Him

Lol. Now ur just being silly. Go read revelations again ok.

By the way are u even a christian?

~Lady~:

@4Him

Lol. Now your just being silly. Go read revelations again ok.

By the way are u even a christian?

Sorry, come out of her before it is too late.

@4Him: Bashing the catholic sect of Christendom, agan? Ironically, its the sect that makes such a bruhaha about Easter, this past sunday. The rest of Christian sects were wimps compared to the the galantry of the catholics.

Revelation 17 :1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great LovePeddler that sitteth upon many waters:

Whos was the speaker here, in the the verse of the Bible quoted above? It is obvious that it was not Jesus! It is from the part of the Bible called revelation. Revelation still was going on after Jesus was lifted up? It seem to me, from this then, that the responsibility to provide the road map/blue print of Success to mankind, was not completed on Jesus. Who was it completed on?

If the Christians can not be certain that it was Jesus, then the possibilities of who it was are endless. It actually gives the window to the fact that there is revealed words from God after the "Bible/I mean New Testament of Jesus." If the Christian say that revelation from God ends with Jesus, one will then have to discount everything that is said in the Bible post Jesus on earth.

@Olabowale

The book of revelation is not completed on a person. It tells of the apocalypse, it gives signs to the end of the world, the second coming of Christ.

I don't understand why you're trying to disprove the Bible, the great one's book acknowledges our faith.

olabowale:

If the Christians can not be certain that it was Jesus, then the possibilities of who it was are endless. It actually gives the window to the fact that there is revealed words from God after the "Bible/I mean New Testament of Jesus." If the Christian say that revelation from God ends with Jesus, one will then have to discount everything that is said in the Bible post Jesus on earth.

which christian told you that nonsense? Revelations in forms of dreams, visions e.t.c from God is still a big part of God's relationship with us His children.

This is soooooooooooooooooooo true!!! I've even been guilty myself.

AKO shhhhh don't expose urself like that now

4Him,
I must confess I'm not the best at studying prophecy & ur short expose on Rev 17 is something I haven't spent time on studying yet . . . thanks for that piece of info. I am going to do some more studying.

D-reloaded:


#3 is the fact that a good majority worship the Pope and are in denial of it.

you know that is the one thing that gets under my skin sooooo much! The way they worship and adore and venerate this mere man who is a sinner just like everyone else. But I guess we should not be suprised, the bible says the enemy has blinded the eyes of many.

Imagine last yr the pope came out and said hell exists, becos the last pope had declared that hell was "only a state of mind" and not a real place. And all catholics go ahead and believe his word more than that of God's word! who knows maybe the next pope will change his mind about hell too. *hisses* what rubbish.

JeSoul:

   you know that is the one thing that gets under my skin sooooo much! The way they worship and adore and venerate this mere man who is a sinner just like everyone else. But I guess we should not be suprised, the bible says the enemy has blinded the eyes of many.

  Imagine last yr the pope came out and said hell exists, because the last pope had declared that hell was "only a state of mind" and not a real place. And all catholics go ahead and believe his word more than that of God's word! who knows maybe the next pope will change his mind about hell too. *hisses* what rubbish.
 

Say that again.

Lady if you'd spent as much time researching as you have accusing me of judging, we would have made more progress in this discussion by now. Anyways I see what you're trying to say in that "you only confess to sins and they forgive through the grace of God", right? now all I need from you is the scriptural reference for this practice and I'll be on my way.

For those who don't know, let us take a walk through the Roman Catholic teaching of confession, since I've been accused I'll like to re-state my case and make it clear from the scriptures why the catholic church is unbiblical and heretic in their teachings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confession  (all the parts in brown are from this link)

[center]"In Catholic teaching, the sacrament of Penance (commonly called confession but more recently referred to as Reconciliation, or more fully the Sacrament of Reconciliation) is the method used by the Church by which individual men and women may confess sins committed after baptism and have them absolved by a priest. [/center]

    Notice this, they are confessing to a priest, and it is the priest that "absolves" or forgives their sins. This is in direct contradiction to numerous scriptures that teaches that God only forgives sins, and that there is only 1 mediator between man and God:
   
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he(God) is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Luke 5:21
The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, "Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

So we see from the scriptures, we go through Jesus Christ to get to God - who is the one that forgives our sins. There is no hint of a priest or anything or any other method.

[center]"Roman Catholics believe that priests have been given the authority by Jesus and God to exercise the forgiveness of sins here on earth, through his authority. This is to say that the priest during the Sacrament of Penance is a stand-in for Jesus whose authority it is to forgive sins."[/center]

  There is NO SCRIPTURAL BASIS for this ungodly practice, au contraire, there are plenty of instances where sins are confessed directly to God.

  [center]"Typically the penitent begins the confession by saying, "Bless me Father, for I have sinned. It has been [time period] since my last confession." [/center]
  Where in scriptures are we given this ritualistic procedure for confessing sins? Nowhere! Infact when the disciples asked Jesus to teach how to pray Jesus said this:
  "This, then, is how you should pray:
   " 'Our Father in heaven,
   hallowed be your name,
    10your kingdom come,
   your will be done
      on earth as it is in heaven.
    11Give us today our daily bread.
    12Forgive us our debts,
      as we also have forgiven our debtors.
    13And lead us not into temptation,
   but deliver us from the evil one.

Jesus already gave us the required way to pray and ask for forgivness. There is no need for any other method as being prescribed and taught by the catholic church. Infact ask any catholic to give you just one example or instance in the bible where anyone confessed their sins to a disciple in order to gain forgiveness - the fact is there is none. Catholics claim Jesus gave the disciples the power to forgive sins YET there is no evidence anywhere in the bible where the disciples practiced or used this authority! how come? were they being disobedient to Jesus? or is it because Jesus never really gave them such a power in the first place?

  [center]"Absolution in the Roman rite takes this form (with the essential words in bold):
God the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son, has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."[/center]
  The part in bold is simply put blasphemy! the priest is assuming a position that God only can occupy! God only forgives sins! not man. This is a gross heresy that many blindly follow without ever checking what the bible really teaches.

[center]
"In order for the sacrament to be valid the penitent must do more than simply confess his known mortal sins to a priest. He must a) be truly sorry for each of the mortal sins he committed, b) have a firm intention never to commit them again, and c) perform the penance imposed by the priest". [/center]
  THERE IS NO BIBLICAL BASIS for the heretic teaching of penance. Everytime we see Jesus forgive the sins of someone he says "Go and sin no more" He never once tells them to repeat "hail marys" or "our fathers" or any other physical act in order to "complete the forgiveness". Becos there is nuthin we can do to earn forgiveness, it is a gift from God.

  I hope the above so far will open the eyes of the readers and I say this to any catholics reading this, please don't come back with insults and abusive reponses or cry you're being judged, biblically refute all the above. The bible says "always have an answer ready to anyone who asks about your faith and why you believe what you believe" and "Study to show yourself approved". If you really look at all these things you'll be convinced like so many why the Roman catholic church is the greatest deception today and she will sadly take many down with her to hell.

JeSoul:



Notice this, they are confessing to a priest, and it is the priest that "absolves" or forgives their sins. This is in direct contradiction to numerous scriptures that teaches that God only forgives sins, and that there is only 1 mediator between man and God:



Roman catholic church is the greatest deception today and she will sadly take many down with her to hell.[/b]

why not say what you know and understand?
suddenly you know who is goin the hell and who is not
u can read the Holy Bible from page one to the last and quote it, it really dsnt mean a thing. . . . . . .
try to be more careful with the words you use
why not?. . . . . . . even Jesus himself was/is

@Lady
judgemental u say? lol
hvnt u noticed that long posts & Catholic bashing is a sure way to popularity around here?
no stress ursef jo!
hope u did ur Easter duty well?

Cheers

Letting the Word do the talking and the Holy Spirit the convicting;

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;


1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.


1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

viee:


why not say what you know and understand?
suddenly you know who is goin the hell and who is not
u can read the Holy Bible from page one to the last and quote it, it really dsnt mean a thing. . . . . . .
try to be more careful with the words you use
why not?. . . . . . . even Jesus himself was/is

Did I not say :
"When a person cannot scripturally counter your argument they resort to
1[b]. Accuse you of judging them[/b]
2. Accuse you of misinterpreting or misquoting them
3. Dance around the questions and return answers that have nuthin to do with the discussion
4. They say they'll leave, pretending to be outraged/offended"

Viee, you read my whole post, did you not have anything to actually refute based on scripture? why not go ahead and actually prove me wrong with the bible? You gave a response based on nothing and tell me the fact I can quote doesn't matter, then you go ahead and show me what I said that was wrong? maybe its becos you can't?
go on, I dare you

Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Dogs,
Whoremongers
Idolaters
Whosoever loveth and maketh

sounds familiar, !

Jesoul,

when u say something worth commenting on
u will surely get a response from me. . . . . .

JeSoul:

Did I not say :
"When a person cannot scripturally counter your argument they resort to
1[b]. Accuse you of judging them[/b]
2. Accuse you of misinterpreting or misquoting them
3. Dance around the questions and return answers that have nuthin to do with the discussion
4. They say they'll leave, pretending to be outraged/offended"

same old lines. . . . . .

Christmas, Easter, Lenten period, Sunday as a Holy Day etc all fixed by Catholic Church yet they condemn that same Catholic Church. They obey Catholic commands and cannot do anything about it. Hypocrites everywhere and I know Catholic critics will surely find themselves in the most burning part of hell fire unless they repent and join Catholic Church. It’s written that Catholic Church will ever remain strong in faith.

Please show me just 1, only 1 instance in the bible where priests or the disciples forgave the sins of anybody. Give me just one example where they practiced this so-called authority to forgive sins? show me another where penance was taught and practiced?

By apostle Paul

2Corinthians 5: 20 "So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God."

2 Corinthians 2:10 "Whomever, you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, If I have forgiven anything, has been for you in the presence of Christ." Apostle Paul to the Corinthians. These are not Jesus' words. Paul is the one doing the forgiving here.

Acts 13:38 "You must know, my brothers, that through him forgiveness of sins is being proclaimed to you, " Paul acknowledging the power of forgiveness ordained to him by Christ.

JeSoul I have already given the scritures to you, you however, remain blind to them. I won't refute your scriptures, because I too believe in them. They do NOT and I repeat DO NOT refute my scriptures but add to them and proves them even more. You pick and choose which ones to believe, that is fine with me.

But do keep in mind, that as Christ was forgiving sins the pharisees called it blasphemous for God alone can forgive, and well we all know how that ended don't we?

Keep basking in ur waters that causes u blindness, I will keep praising the Lord. I laid out the catechism which u call evil and not an evil word came out of it, let others decide for themselves.

I have done my research and that is how I came up with the scriptures that I showed you, you still claim that I don't refute ur scriptures, my dear I won't because those scriptures are also in my Bible and I hold them to be true. U keep expecting me to refute a belief that we both share. When will u stop the madness and see that it's the same thing.
Whatever theory u have in your head is NOT of the Catholic church. You want me to tell u that and I do but u still want to bicker like a mad woman.

@Viee,
my dear I stand firm in my faith and with these truths that I have revealed I stand even firmer in my faith. YES I have noticed it's the new trend to stardom.
Anyway, my easter was blessed and I am enjoying every moment of the season. I truly believe in the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will surely come again.

How was yours? Hope it was equally as blessed or even more so.

@ Jesoul, my brother
This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist.
                         This is the part of the Pope's sermon on that Wednesday.


the last pope had declared that hell was "only a state of mind" and not a real place.
                          This is You grabbing a few sentences. Guys are really desperate in their attempt to bring down the Catholic church.  
Pope never said that Hell is not real, he said that the word place and fire as we know it is inadequate to describe the REALITIES involved. Please , stop spreading rumours. It does not help u or anybody for that matter.

As for the Catholics worshipping the Pope, my advice on that again is that You should plis stop spreading rumors. It is no longer in fashion. And u wonder why peeps don't bother to  counter your argument. With posts like "My mum soup is better than urs" u are not going to get any useful response.

This is hopefully going to be my last post on this thread because I always make it a point to stay out of racial, tribal and religious diatribes.

5 catholics and still counting . . .
none can biblically refute this post yet:

For those who don't know, let us take a walk through the Roman Catholic teaching of confession, since I've been accused I'll like to re-state my case and make it clear from the scriptures why the catholic church is unbiblical and heretic in their teachings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confession (all the parts in brown are from this link)

[center]"In Catholic teaching, the sacrament of Penance (commonly called confession but more recently referred to as Reconciliation, or more fully the Sacrament of Reconciliation) is the method used by the Church by which individual men and women may confess sins committed after baptism and have them absolved by a priest. [/center]

Notice this, they are confessing to a priest, and it is the priest that "absolves" or forgives their sins. This is in direct contradiction to numerous scriptures that teaches that God only forgives sins, and that there is only 1 mediator between man and God:

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he(God) is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Luke 5:21
The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, "Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

So we see from the scriptures, we go through Jesus Christ to get to God - who is the one that forgives our sins. There is no hint of a priest or anything or any other method.

[center]"Roman Catholics believe that priests have been given the authority by Jesus and God to exercise the forgiveness of sins here on earth, through his authority. This is to say that the priest during the Sacrament of Penance is a stand-in for Jesus whose authority it is to forgive sins."[/center]

There is NO SCRIPTURAL BASIS for this ungodly practice, au contraire, there are plenty of instances where sins are confessed directly to God.

[center]"Typically the penitent begins the confession by saying, "Bless me Father, for I have sinned. It has been [time period] since my last confession." [/center]
Where in scriptures are we given this ritualistic procedure for confessing sins? Nowhere! Infact when the disciples asked Jesus to teach how to pray Jesus said this:
"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.

Jesus already gave us the required way to pray and ask for forgivness. There is no need for any other method as being prescribed and taught by the catholic church. Infact ask any catholic to give you just one example or instance in the bible where anyone confessed their sins to a disciple in order to gain forgiveness - the fact is there is none. Catholics claim Jesus gave the disciples the power to forgive sins YET there is no evidence anywhere in the bible where the disciples practiced or used this authority! how come? were they being disobedient to Jesus? or is it because Jesus never really gave them such a power in the first place?

[center]"Absolution in the Roman rite takes this form (with the essential words in bold):
God the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son, has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."[/center]
The part in bold is simply put blasphemy! the priest is assuming a position that God only can occupy! God only forgives sins! not man. This is a gross heresy that many blindly follow without ever checking what the bible really teaches.

[center]
"In order for the sacrament to be valid the penitent must do more than simply confess his known mortal sins to a priest. He must a) be truly sorry for each of the mortal sins he committed, b) have a firm intention never to commit them again, and c) perform the penance imposed by the priest". [/center]
THERE IS NO BIBLICAL BASIS for the heretic teaching of penance. Everytime we see Jesus forgive the sins of someone he says "Go and sin no more" He never once tells them to repeat "hail marys" or "our fathers" or any other physical act in order to "complete the forgiveness". Becos there is nuthin we can do to earn forgiveness, it is a gift from God.

I hope the above so far will open the eyes of the readers and I say this to any catholics reading this, please don't come back with insults and abusive reponses or cry you're being judged, biblically refute all the above. The bible says "always have an answer ready to anyone who asks about your faith and why you believe what you believe" and "Study to show yourself approved". If you really look at all these things you'll be convinced like so many why the Roman catholic church is the greatest deception today and she will sadly take many down with her to hell.

Lmao the Sabbath was created by the Catholic Church?

"Absolution in the Roman rite takes this form (with the essential words in bold):
God the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son, has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

Why didn't u put in bold the "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"? Like I said u pick and choose which one workds for u.

"1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he(God) is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Luke 5:21
The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, "Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?


1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Why don't u add the other scriptures that ask u to confess your sins, or the one in which Christ breathed on the apostles and told them to "receive the spirit." "Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are FORGIVEN them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are RETAINED."? Or didn't Christ give us the power and grace to continue his works on earth and didn't he forgive, isn't that part of his works. It does not say whose "message u preach" will be "message u preached" them, and whose "message u don't preach" will be" message u don't preach", so don't give me that translation, it makes NO SENSE.

But u won't because like all other christians, u pick and choose which is more suitable for u.

CATHOLICS WILL NOT TODAY, TOMORROW, OR EVER, REFUTE THE PASSAGES IN WHICH YOU PROVIDED BECAUSE IT IS A PART OF OUR MESSAGE. GOTTTTT ITTTT!!!!!!!!


"This, then, is how you should pray:
  " 'Our Father in heaven,
  hallowed be your name,
   10your kingdom come,
  your will be done
     on earth as it is in heaven.
   11Give us today our daily bread.
   12Forgive us our debts,
     as we also have forgiven our debtors.
   13And lead us not into temptation,
  but deliver us from the evil one"

How about u also highlight "AS WE HAVE FORGIVEN OUR DEBTORS". Stop picking and choosing.


"Jesus already gave us the required way to pray and ask for forgivness. There is no need for any other method as being prescribed and taught by the catholic church. Infact ask any catholic to give you just one example or instance in the bible where anyone confessed their sins to a disciple in order to gain forgiveness - the fact is there is none. Catholics claim Jesus gave the disciples the power to forgive sins YET there is no evidence anywhere in the bible where the disciples practiced or used this authority! how come? were they being disobedient to Jesus? or is it because Jesus never really gave them such a power in the first place?'

This one Catholic has provided it for u above, but ofcourse with the hatred in your heart u'll be too blind to see, just like the Pharisees (as an example ofcourse)

"THERE IS NO BIBLICAL BASIS for the heretic teaching of penance. Everytime we see Jesus forgive the sins of someone he says "Go and sin no more" He never once tells them to repeat "hail marys" or "our fathers" or any other physical act in order to "complete the forgiveness". Becos there is nuthin we can do to earn forgiveness, it is a gift from God."

You know what's funny about this "hail Mary" and "our father" thing is that in all my countless times of going to confession, I was never told to do any of these, I was told to pray and I was given passages from the bible to meditate on, and I remember an occassion where I was heavily burdened and the priest referred a book to me, he said it would help. So I WILL MAKE THE ASSUPMTION THAT You ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE PRACTICES OF THE CHURCH, AND ARE SPEAKING BASED ON WHAT You'VE HEARD. I was also told to make right, my wrong, now are u going to tell me that that practice is also wrong.

But here's something about penance, it is voluntary. No one has a camera to your face to say "aha, I caught u, your not doing penance" it is an atonement for sins, it's jsut u saying God I am sorry and to show how sorry I am, I will help the neighborhood kids for a month or give to the homeless everytime I see one.

But since we want to stick strictly to what the Bible says (which by the way is what I've been doing), let's visit other areas of the so called heresy.

Christmas- No where in the Bible is christmas celebrated, but u my dear celebrate it year after year after year, your church should be condemned for heresy shouldn't it?

Easter- No where in the Bible is easter celebrater, but u my dear celebrate it year after year after year, your church should be condemned for heresy shouldn't it?

Your Birthday- IT IS NOT CELEBRATED IN THE BIBLE, shouldn't u be considered heretic.

AND NO DON'T COME ACCUSING ME OF STRAYING FROM THE TOPIC, I AM GIVING You EXAMPLES OF THE PRACTICES THAT ARE NOT IN THE BIBLE, BECAUSE IF You WILL ACCUSE ME OF HERESY You MUST ACCUSE YOURSELF OF IT TOO.

"Roman catholic church is the greatest deception today and she will sadly take many down with her to hell"
Do u know what judgment is or do u want to just completely ignore the fact that u have just judged 1 billion people?
I would like to go with the later, but unfortunately u have just sinned against man and God, by playing God. But hey am just screaming judgment right?
Some christian u are.

@D-reloaded

"Lmao the Sabbath was created by the Catholic Church?"

No it wasn't

Uche2nna:

@ Jesoul, my brother
This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist.
This is the part of the Pope's sermon on that Wednesday.


the last pope had declared that hell was "only a state of mind" and not a real place.
This is You grabbing a few sentences. Guys are really desperate in their attempt to bring down the Catholic church.
Pope never said that Hell is not real, he said that the word place and fire as we know it is inadequate to describe the REALITIES involved. Please , stop spreading rumours. It does not help u or anybody for that matter.

As for the Catholics worshipping the Pope, my advice on that again is that You should plis stop spreading rumors. It is no longer in fashion. And u wonder why peeps don't bother to counter your argument. With posts like "My mum soup is better than urs" u are not going to get any useful response.

This is hopefully going to be my last post on this thread because I always make it a point to stay out of racial, tribal and religious diatribes.

LOL. . . this is fun! I will now show you how you urself don't even know what ur church teaches:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03262007/news/worldnews/pope_proclaims_hell_exists_and_is_eternal_worldnews_.htm

POPE PROCLAIMS HELL 'EXISTS AND IS ETERNAL'

March 26, 2007 -- ROME - Hell is a place where sinners burn in an eternal fire, and not just a religious symbol designed to galvanise the faithful, the Pope has said.

God's mercy and love are great, but those who reject him should know that hell "exists and is eternal, even if nobody talks about it much any more," Pope Benedict XVI proclaimed during a weekend visit to a Rome parish.

Vatican officials said that the Pope - who is also the Bishop of Rome - had been speaking in "straightfoward" language "like a parish priest." He had wanted to reinforce the new Catholic catechism, which holds that Hell is a "state of eternal separation from God," to be understood "symbolically rather than physically."

In 1999 Pope John Paul II declared that Heaven was "neither an abstraction nor a physical place in the clouds, but that fullness of communion with God which is the goal of human life." Hell, by contrast, was "the ultimate consequence of sin itself, Rather than a place, Hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy."

ROTFL! The new pope believes hell is real, but the last one didn't, so will the next one believe or change it back?

pope JP said "Rather than a place, Hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God"

YOUR catechism states "Hell is a "state of eternal separation from God," to be understood "symbolically rather than physically"

I'd like to see anyone go ahead and try to defend this nonsense.

@JeSoul

Now I really believe ur doing this just to pass time, you're bored at work aren't u?

Why don't u address the speech she was talking about? She spoke of the last Pope and how u picked and chose what to say, but u are her addressing a DIFFERENT speech from a the recent Pope as a rebuttal. Please go and sit down somewhere.

@ Lady

That has always been my problem with Jesoul. He   just cherry picks watever he thinks is best for his argument and leaves the rest.   His interpretation of what the Pope said , Even the line about confession, the key words of In the name of the Father, was there . Vintage Jesoul , he just picked the one he thinks would butress his point.

I really wanna leave this thread but I get drawn back by very absurd accusations.
Ok, I understand ur grouse about the Hail Mary. Thats ur funeral, not mine   But must u also abhor the Lord's prayer too. We are given the Lord's prayer as part of our penance. How does that bother Jesoul? And to aggravate u more, the prayers are not just the end of the story. Sometimes as part of ur penance, u are requested to perform a work of charity, such as visiting a motherless babies home, praying for the dead, visiting the prison etc. So now Jesoul, does that not make u glad u are not a Catholic  

lady your posts are confused and litered, it is hard to understand what your point is as you keep mixing my words with urs. Dost thou know how to use [quote.] [/quote.] ?

 

~Lady~:

Why didn't u put in bold the "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"? Like I said u pick and choose which one workds for u.

  what does that have to do with anything? you completely ignored the chunk of the quote which is what I was getting at and you're focusing on an insignificant technicality.

Here's the quote:
 [center]Absolution in the Roman rite takes this form (with the essential words in bold):
God the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son, has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."[/center]

 The main point here (like I said) is that it is the priest who is doing the forgiving! there's no scriptural basis for that! you come back crying that I did not add "the holy spirit" words to the end of that quote?
you're not focusing on the issue, stop tap-dancing around it and face it head on jare.

Why don't u add the other scriptures that ask u to confess your sins, or the one in which Christ breathed on the apostles and told them to "receive the spirit." "Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are FORGIVEN them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are RETAINED."? Or didn't Christ give us the power and grace to continue his works on earth and didn't he forgive, isn't that part of his works. It does not say whose "message u preach" will be "message u preached" them, and whose "message u don't preach" will be" message u don't preach", so don't give me that translation, it makes NO SENSE.

 and it makes even LESS sense that hundreds of other scriptures would directly contradict the notion priests can forgive sins! which means that something is gravely wrong with ur INTERPRETATION of this one particular verse, which is the ONLY verse you caths use is justifying that practice.

CATHOLICS WILL NOT TODAY, TOMORROW, OR EVER, REFUTE THE PASSAGES IN WHICH YOU PROVIDED BECAUSE IT IS A PART OF OUR MESSAGE. GOTTTTT ITTTT!!!!!!!!

  what in the world are you talking about?    you saw my post, go thru each point and SHOW BIBLICALLY where whatever I said was wrong! That is what you all cannot do.

"This, then, is how you should pray:
  " 'Our Father in heaven,
  hallowed be your name,
   10your kingdom come,
  your will be done
     on earth as it is in heaven.
   11Give us today our daily bread.
   12Forgive us our debts,
     as we also have forgiven our debtors.
   13And lead us not into temptation,
  but deliver us from the evil one"

How about u also highlight "AS WE HAVE FORGIVEN OUR DEBTORS". Stop picking and choosing.

 
AGAIN YOU ARE NOT FOCUSING ON THE ISSUE!!! the point of that verse was Jesus teaching us how to pray and confess!  and that priests are not a part of that as taught by Jesus. and yet again you come back crying I did not highlight one part?  

This one Catholic has provided it for u above, but ofcourse with the hatred in your heart u'll be too blind to see, just like the Pharisees (as an example ofcourse)

  yes go ahead and insult me, I already knew this was coming becos the truth hurts and when 'christians' cannot justify their beliefs BIBLICALLY  they resort to name-calling and false accusations.

You know what's funny about this "hail Mary" and "our father" thing is that in all my countless times of going to confession, I was never told to do any of these, I was told to pray and I was given passages from the bible to meditate on, and I remember an occassion where I was heavily burdened and the priest referred a book to me, he said it would help. So I WILL MAKE THE ASSUPMTION THAT You ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE PRACTICES OF THE CHURCH, AND ARE SPEAKING BASED ON WHAT You'VE HEARD. I was also told to make right, my wrong, now are u going to tell me that that practice is also wrong.

  YET again you are not speaking to the issue!
maybe you have not been told to repeat hail marys, BUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES IT!!!! pls show me the biblical reference for that practice.

But here's something about penance, it is voluntary. No one has a camera to your face to say "aha, I caught u, your not doing penance" it is an atonement for sins, it's jsut u saying God I am sorry and to show how sorry I am, I will help the neighborhood kids for a month or give to the homeless everytime I see one.

  voluntary abi not voluntary - that's not the point! the practice is NOT BIBLICAL! how many ways can I say this?

But since we want to stick strictly to what the Bible says (which by the way is what I've been doing), let's visit other areas of the so called heresy.

Christmas- No where in the Bible is christmas celebrated, but u my dear celebrate it year after year after year, your church should be condemned for heresy shouldn't it?

Easter- No where in the Bible is easter celebrater, but u my dear celebrate it year after year after year, your church should be condemned for heresy shouldn't it?

 I would gladly answer these questions but that is not what this topic is about. . . .moving on. . .

Your Birthday- IT IS NOT CELEBRATED IN THE BIBLE, shouldn't u be considered heretic.

 I really hate to say this but this is just plain ridiculous! is this the best you could come up with?

AND NO DON'T COME ACCUSING ME OF STRAYING FROM THE TOPIC, I AM GIVING You EXAMPLES OF THE PRACTICES THAT ARE NOT IN THE BIBLE, BECAUSE IF You WILL ACCUSE ME OF HERESY You MUST ACCUSE YOURSELF OF IT TOO.

 you are straying from the topic! just focus on the issue of catholic confession and whether or not it is biblical! THAT is the issue.
Stop trying to deflect the focus, it is becos you have no answer you're trying to raise other issues.

Do u know what judgment is or do u want to just completely ignore the fact that u have just judged 1 billion people?
I would like to go with the later, but unfortunately u have just sinned against man and God, by playing God. But hey am just screaming judgment right?
Some christian u are.

  I did NOT say 1 billiob people are going to hell.
 I said the RCC will cause many to go to hell. PLS DON't TWIST MY WORDS. As long as those people don't follow the bible and what it teaches and believe in God to save them by grace alone but continue to rely on a church, heretic teachings and an unbiblical gospel, they are going to hell, not by my pronouncication but becos the word of God declares so.
 The bible says clearly anyone who preaches another gospel is already cursed. The RCC is bringing an unbiblical gospel - they are by definition anti-christ. Period.

@ Jesoul

Now u done it, bro. U have finally signed my Visa out of this place. I have stuff to do and I wont be running after all ur sentences trying to put them in context.

The Catholic church has always believed that there is HELL, but the last Pope was trying to drive home the point (in a sermon) that U cant with ur physical senses fathom the reality of the suffering u are going to be encountering in Hell. If one goes to Hell , he is going to hell as a spirit and the kind of fire that is necessary to torment a spirit is not the kind of fire that we are familiar with here on earth. Even the Bible attests to the fact that we cannot imagine the kind of enjoyment or suffering we are going to get in heaven or hell respectively.

My brother, read, read, read, before u post abeg.

Uche2nna:

@ Jesoul

Now u done it, bro. You have finally signed my Visa out of this place. I have stuff to do and I wont be running after all your sentences trying to put them in context.

I know, it takes a little bit of mental and biblical fortitude to respond.

~Lady~:

@JeSoul

Now I really believe your doing this just to pass time, you're bored at work aren't u?

Why don't u address the speech she was talking about? She spoke of the last Pope and how u picked and chose what to say, but u are her addressing a DIFFERENT speech from a the recent Pope as a rebuttal. Please go and sit down somewhere.

 ROTFL. . .I repeat:
"When a person cannot scripturally counter your argument they resort to
1. Accuse you of judging them
2. Accuse you of misinterpreting or misquoting them
3. Dance around the questions and return answers that have nuthin to do with the discussion
4. They say they'll leave, pretending to be outraged/offended"

 NONE of you has disproven anything I've shown biblically - just gone on to insult me, avoid the questions and return anwers with absolutely no point.