I know, it takes a little bit of mental and biblical fortitude to respond.

Actually, I reserve that for my line of work and I assure u bro, u really have to be on all ur mental eggs to be on top of that.

I suggest you buy a pair of glasses Uche. JeSoul is female, don't know why you continue to refer to HER as a "he"

and what happened to you not replying to this topic anymore? 

This issue is back up again? Gosh,i've been away for too long
Funny that Uche keeps referring to JeSoul as 'he'

lol, I referred to her as mister too

Sorry JeSoul, sorry girl

JeSoul did u read my post?
Because u will see where I clearly state that no one will dispute you scripture because it's the same scripture we believe in or do u not understand simple english again , You've already shown that u do not.

lol.


Sorry ooo, Jesoul. I apologise, No offence meant.

D-reloaded:

I suggest you buy a pair of glasses Uche. JeSoul is female, don't know why you continue to refer to HER as a "he"

Thanks

D-reloaded:



and what happened to you not replying to this topic anymore?

Sue me
Anyway, I am sticking to my guns now. No more defending or bashing of denomination , religion or creed.

~Lady~:

lol, I referred to her as mister too

Sorry JeSoul, sorry girl

Uche2nna:

lol.
Sorry ooo, Jesoul. I apologise, No offence meant.

None taken at all Uche & Lady

just one parting word, I plead you to please don't mistake a challenge for an attack, and don't confuse it for bashing or bouthmouthing or condemning. The bible says "we should always be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks what we believe". It is not a mistake or coincidence people keep on talking about all these issues that we've raised on this thread. But know this and it should be a sobering thot:
everything said on this thread, the truth or the lies with either justify or condemn you on the last day. Just make sure that you are believing the truth and not a lie.

@JeSoul

U know I finally agree with u on the last post and I truly do apologise, I didn't pay attention to the fact that ur a female, lol.

I agree no need to confuse a challenge for an attack but when u say that the church is evil, it is an attack, and a verdict (judgment). I understand u tying to bring the truth, but keep in mind that u also may not hold the truth, just because someone differs with your opinion does not mean they are wrong, there are three sides to the truth, your side, my side, and the truth.
There are many preachers out there and I have heard the same passages over and over again but different meanings to them. Each one interprets it differently. I found confusion, but the Catholic church had no confusion, there was/is unity in Christ.

You tell me I should do my research and I remember saying that I wasn't always Catholic, trust me I have attended most of the churches out there right down to Cele, so I took my time to research, and not just about the Churches but also about the teachings from the Bible. It took me years before I decided to join the Catholic church and in my heart I know the teachings to be true and also from my life experiences too. There are truths that have been revealed to me that may not have been revealed to you. That's why I tell everyone to pray and ask God for his spirit of understanding, knowledge, and wisdom before they read and meditate on the words of the Bible.
To you and many people the Catholic church is evil, but to me and billions of people it is not. To me the teachings from the Bible makes sense, to you it doesn't and that's fine. You can accept the scriptures I presented to u or u may not, that's fine. All I know is on judgment day I will be held accountable for my actions and not yours and vice versa.

yeah about the whole quoting thing, how do u do that, am still learning how this site works, it's too much wahala trying to copy and paste the quotes especially since some may not show up on the page when I click reply.

God bless

~Lady~ pls tell dem and i hope dey listen to you.
but if the trend on this religion section is anything to go by, u may as well save your breath.

well take care and have a happy easter this weekend and God bless.

please pray for a special intention i have. thanks .

lady,
as bart simpson would say "no problemo" . We will all be responsible for what we chose to believe no doubt! whenever discussions arise in the future I hope I'll have the chance to engage you again - in depth.

~Lady~:

yeah about the whole quoting thing, how do u do that, am still learning how this site works, it's too much wahala trying to copy and paste the quotes especially since some may not show up on the page when I click reply.

God bless

got you, it's really worth it though, it helps when your thots and points to specific portions of the other persons post are seperated and flow nicely.
Cheers!

@Carlosein

Have a happy easter too. May the Lord grant you your heart desires according to his will. Amen.

Lady, stop wailing. The catholic church is simply the fulfillment of the prophecy in Revelations 17.

Revelation 17 :1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great LovePeddler that sitteth upon many waters:

Now we know that the bible describes the church in feminine terms hence the use of "LovePeddler". Sitting on many waters is simply refering to a large body of people . . . you will agree with me that the catholic church is about the largest religious movement on earth.

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Now is the pope not the most revered man on earth? Even the greatest presidents on earth defer to the authority of the pope.

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

- the middle ages witnessed the greatest slaughter of christians by the catholic church ever recorded in history. Her hands still drip with the blood of the saints who died in the catacombs and in the cages of lions.

- Wow . . . till today we still wonder with great admiration . . . the catholic church is perhaps the richest religious organisation on earth.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The vatican city sits on the 7 hills of Rome.

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

These are the 10 most powerful nations that initially formed the European Union . . . Italy is a prominent member.

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Are we still wondering what that "city" is?

Please stop spreading false truths.
The Vatican does not sit on the 7 hills of Rome.

The Vatican is across the Tiber river from Rome and Sits atop one hill Rome is surrounded buy several small sill cocks you need to check you geography maps

Judging by the criteria of biblical fundamentalism (literal words literally understood) it is certain that there is no mention of the Catholic Church in the book of Revelation as the LovePeddler of Babylon. By contortions of interpretation (not biblical literalism) some groups and individuals equate the LovePeddler in Revelation 17:9 with the Catholic Church since Rome is the famous city of seven hills and the Church's principal See is Rome. This position is untenable, both factually and from the only words of Scripture which tell us of the actual doctrine of the Antichrist, those of the apostle John in his letters.

There would seem to be two choices, either interpret Rev 17:9 absolutely literally or according to some interpretive key that is metaphorical, allegorical or otherwise non-literal. Lets look first at literal interpretation.

"The seven heads represent seven hills on which the woman sits." First of all, no Pope has ever lived or had his "seat" (cathedra or cathedral) on any of the seven hills of Rome. These hills are small hillocks (Capitoline, Palatine, Esquiline, Aventine and three lesser "bumps" in central Rome) where the religion and government of pagan Rome was situated. The Catholic Church's headquarters at the Lateran (the cathedral) and at the Vatican (where the Pope lives) does not coincide with them. At the time that John wrote Revelation the Christians of Rome lived mostly in Trastevere (trans Tiber), a district "across the Tiber" from the City and adjacent to the Vatican hill where St. Peter was crucified and buried. The Vatican is on top of that burial site and is today its own city-state distinct from Rome and Italy.

So, of what was St. John speaking when he wrote Revelation on the island of Patmos around 96 AD? Obviously of the pagan imperial system situated on the Seven Hills, especially the Capitoline (the religious and political center) and the Palatine (the imperial palace). This pagan power persecuted the Church of Rome in Nero's day (64-67 AD), and in the mid-90s under Domitian was persecuting Christians throughout the Roman world. Domitian was considered by the people a re-incarnation of the evil, but well-liked, Nero (the head that lives again). While the antichrist Nero persecuted only the Christians of Rome, Domitian extended that persecution throughout the empire. Both are thus types of the final persecutor, the Antichrist.

Why the cryptic name Babylon? First, the historical Babylon was the pagan power which persecuted the People of God, the Jews, between 610 and 538 BC, destroying the Temple and dispersing the people. The Romans inherited that mantle of infamy when they destroyed the Temple in 70 AD, and, more importantly, persecuted the new People of God, the Church. Thus, St. Peter, writing from Rome refers to as "Babylon" (1 Pt. 5:13) - a name any Jew or Christian familiar with the Old Testament would know.

How does this relate to the Antichrist? The future Antichrist will be a world-wide power, essentially pagan, which will persecute the Catholic Church (and orthodox Christians in general) everywhere, as the Babylonians persecuted the Jews and 1st century Rome the Church. These are biblical types! The Babylon of John's day, Rome, stands for the kingdom of the future Antichrist and is no more likely to be situated in Italy than Rome needed to be situated in Babylonia (modern Iraq). John was informing his readers of these prophetic types by drawing their attention to the contemporary fulfillment they found in pagan Rome. The Antichrist will come out of the Christian world (Greco-Roman civilization) to be sure (1 John 2:19), but America is as much an inheritor of that civilization as Europe and just as likely to be the source of the Antichrist.

Finally, after distorting the text and history to read what they want into the Bible, and thereby obtaining God's "blessing" on their hatred of the Catholic Church, some "Christians" ignore the only texts of Scripture which tells us about the religious leanings of the Antichrist. The Catholic faith being a religion you would think they would see what it teaches on the only criteria the Bible actually gives about the Antichrist. In St. John's letters (1 John 4, 2 John 1), he tells us that the spirit of the Antichrist denies the Incarnation (the Son of God becoming man) and thereby also the Trinity (the Father and the Spirit, too). This is the spirit of the Antichrist. There is not a single text in 2000 years, including the new Catechism of the Catholic Church, where the Catholic Church, her popes, her bishops, her official teachings, her saints, or her acknowledged ecclesiastical authors, deny the Word-made-flesh or the Blessed Trinity. Instead, all of Christianity owes the preservation of these Truths to the Catholic Church, whose great Councils formulated them and whose saints and popes have defended them to this day, often at the cost of martyrdom. John Paul II, has written three great encyclical (circular) letters on the Trinity, one for each Divine Person, and he has without a doubt preached Jesus Christ to more people than any other person in human history. The Catholic Church does not have the spirit of the Antichrist but of God, since no one without the Spirit can say "Jesus is Lord" (1 Cor. 12:3), something the Church and Catholics always have done and continue to do!

~Lady~:

@Carlosein

Have a happy easter too. May the Lord grant you your heart desires according to his will. Amen.

thanks dear and i say a big Amen to that.

SysUser.:

1. Please what do you mean by small cocks

2. what is the number of those small cocks

sysuser, i see u are back and already misusing your sys

anyhow, this goes to show dat nothing lasts forever (including oga seun's ban)

therefore you need to apply charity always when making posts about someone's beliefs cos

you just might realise they are not so true afterall. and doesn't the end always justify the means.

hope u heed my candid advise to you, otherwise ban again

sysmisuser, there are only two types of cocks i know, the edible one and the not so edible one.

so go ask some one else and leave me be o.

_{no come put word for my mouth abi na me yarn cock!}

1. Please what do you mean by small cocks

2. what is the number of those small cocks


sysuser, i see u are back and already misusing your sys

anyhow, this goes to show that nothing lasts forever (including oga seun's ban)

therefore you need to apply charity always when making posts about someone's beliefs because

you just might realise they are not so true afterall. and doesn't the end always justify the means.

hope u heed my candid advise to you, otherwise ban again

hahahaha O Carlosein, I am not SysUser, not yesterday, not today, and definitely not tomorrow, lol. It was a typo. I meant small hillocks. Sorry

You see the problem we christains have can be rooted to the times when christianity was hijacked centuries ago from it's purest form. The truth is that christianity has lost its core values. I'll explain, when Jesus Christ walked the earth the form of christianity was more like a sefless movement, compare it to what we have now. Evry church is guilty, because what we have is an instituiton which focuses itself on special interest based on their influence, not the sefless act portrayed by Jesus and His deciples. Look at the history of the Christian chuch from the advent of the roman catholic churh, the reformers and present day church. You will find atrocities from bloodshed of the crusades, power thirst, money hungry interests lobbyst, just name it it can go on and on. The chucrh is more like an institution made to gain control of individuals. That was Romes intention when they made christianity the national religion of the roman empire, a move which enveloped the early christians. christianity was made or fashioned to control and check citizens of the empire, and to be called a roman citizen you must be a christian. That was the begining of the decay of the christian church, that was the change that has caused more bloodshed than any cause you can ever imagine, that has caused hatreth, even quarelle among people and disputes, like we have now. but what The word of God still stands, and that is our guide. I'm not saying the church is evil or bad let us play our path as christians, let us overlookall this my church this my church that, let see ourselves as christians, believers in christ

Gtunery, 
   you make a lotta great points.

Gtunery:

  Evry church is guilty, because what we have is an instituiton which focuses itself on special interest based on their influence, not the sefless act portrayed by Jesus and His deciples.

  I agree completely. Church has indeed become institutionalized.

Look at the history of the Christian chuch from the advent of the roman catholic churh, the reformers and present day church. You will find atrocities from bloodshed of the crusades, power thirst, money hungry interests lobbyst, just name it it can go on and on.

  Tell that to those in here who are oblivious to early church history, the wickedness they committed in the name of God - without any form of biblical basis

 

The chucrh is more like an institution made to gain control of individuals. That was Romes intention when they made christianity the national religion of the roman empire, a move which enveloped the early christians. christianity was made or fashioned to control and check citizens of the empire, and to be called a roman citizen you must be a christian. That was the begining of the decay of the christian church,

  Excellent point!
one church hisotrian mentioned how what Constantine did in barring persecution, and making christianity the national religion was the worst thing that could have happened to us. why? for 2 reasons:

   1. making christianity the national religion stopped the persecution of saints, why is this a bad thing? because it stopped the spreading of the gospel! when people where persecuted they spread, and took the gospel to places it hadn't been before. but with the onset of Constantine, the gospel basically stopped moving like it had been.

2.  making christianity the national religion diluted the church. Becos everyone went to church whether or not they were a real christian. This took away the power of the church, turning it into an institution where people went to gain recognition, avoid penalties and other things like that. Now you have a church full of non-christians who neither know God nor the scriptures nor care about Jesus. And hence the leaders have the power to introduce all kinds of unbiblical new teachings and traditions without opposition from the people.

that was the change that has caused more bloodshed than any cause you can ever imagine, that has caused hatreth, even quarelle among people and disputes, like we have now.

True.

but what The word of God still stands, and that is our guide. I'm not saying the church is evil or bad let us play our path as christians, let us overlookall this my church this my church that, let see ourselves as christians, believers in christ

  my dear the word of God def still stands strong. God said heaven and earth will pass away but His word will remain. And I must add that while it is good that we be one and united, we must not kid ourselves with a false sense of unity and security. Jesus Himself said there are many that will say "Lord did we know do this and this in your name?". The fact is millions are being deceived by false churches out there, and it does not start and end with just catholicism, there are protestant, anglican etc. . . the falsehood is by far not just from catholics. The only thing is that like you said let us see ourselves as christians - that rely solely and wholly and completely and ONLY on the bible for our faith. The early church in Rome got into trouble when they started introducing all these extra-biblical traditions that have no scriptural basis. 

SysUser,
  ROTFL . . . be like say you die hard! lol Seun might as well stop banning you because it sure ain't working.
ps. Thanks for those "Church History" links  I learned so much from it and have passed it on to my friends as well. Stay blessed _{and out of trouble}. 

1. making christianity the national religion stopped the persecution of saints, why is this a bad thing? because it stopped the spreading of the gospel! when people where persecuted they spread, and took the gospel to places it hadn't been before. but with the onset of Constantine, the gospel basically stopped moving like it had been.

Could u kindly explain this more. I am a bit confused. How did it stop the spreading of the Gospel. Last I checked the gospel spread wide and far and we can see the result today. abi no be so?

*kindly notice that I learned how to use the quote application, lol*

@Not.Seun

My point and proof remains that the Vatican DOES NOT sit on the 7 hills of Rome. Please learn history and geography. The Book of revelations was written years ago, please check the geography of then. The Vatican DOES NOT sit on the 7 hills.

*kindly notice that I learned how to use the quote application, lol*

a round of applause for you Lady for the quote box!  

~Lady~:

Could u kindly explain this more. I am a bit confused. How did it stop the spreading of the Gospel. Last I checked the gospel spread wide and far and we can see the result today. abi no be so?

 Yes my dear the gospel did spread but notice the end of my sentence
when people where persecuted they spread, and took the gospel to places it hadn't been before. but with the onset of Constantine, the gospel basically stopped moving[b] like it had been.[/b]

The gospel did not stop moving, else Jesus would have been lying when He said the church would prevail no matter what. But what happened was that since Jerusalem when the church was persecuted, christians spread out to other places, and kept on spreading. But when Constantine decreed christianity the national religion, christians became comfortable, stopped moving to new places and the gospel was not advancing as forcefully as it had been right after Jesus' death and ascension. And this was not a good thing as history has shown us and as Gtunery explained. Hope this clarifies it better.
Cheers.

@ Jesoul

The gospel was and is still being spread , persecution or not. Persecution was infact the actual catalyst that spurned on the spreading of the gospel but once the seed was sown it continued . The genuine missionaries that landed on the shores of Africa came out of thier own volition and not because they were persecuted.

@JeSoul

Thanks for the clarification.

a round of applause for you Lady for the quote box! 

LMAO!!! THANK You THANKU, I humbly bow

@Not.Seun
You are one hilarious man, continue in your delusions if you wish. LOL

@ Uche

I think she was hinting at that.

Uche2nna:

@ Jesoul

The gospel was and is still being spread , persecution or not. Persecution was infact the actual catalyst that spurned on the spreading of the gospel but once the seed was sown it continued . The genuine missionaries that landed on the shores of Africa came out of their own volition and not because they were persecuted.

~Lady~:

@ Uche
I think she was hinting at that.

she was

Uche the gospel is still being spread, there is no doubt about that. What I meant and if you re-read my post is that is wasn't moving as forcefully and ferociously as it had been the pre-Constantine. The missionaries eventually spread out but not as quickly as it had been or as "godly" as it had been (hint the atrocities of the crusades done in the name of God). Like i said the church will prevail no matter what, the gospel will be told to every tribe and nation - that what Jesus Himself said. So even though what Constantine did was detrimental to the church at that time, God still brought out good from it. The gospel has still spread and has reached you and me! - PRAISE GOD for that!

Kind of funny how things look when u have the luxury of hindsight.  Constatine would have sworn that he is actually helping the cause of the gospel  And maybe he did.

We may actually never know whether or not what Constantine did, was for the benefit of the Gospel until we get to ask Him ourselves,

simply because when things either look good or bad, they still work for Good for those that trust in the Lord and are called according to His will.

I meant until we get to Him (Jesus Christ) ourselves, when we get to heaven!

@ Lady & Uche2nna

i have read this whole thread and i cldnt find anythn worth replyn to
matter of fact, i find it hilarious
what with the way, statements are being twisted
it is so so funny
reminds of Americans; every statement made by a popular person can have a million interpretatns
people jus twist to aid their own argument
funny


nyways, also wanted to add sumtin:
Jesus said to his Disciples, 'receive the holy spirit, whose sins that you forgive are forgiven and whose sins you retain are retained'
the disciples became new being. . .  . they became bold and fearless
Jesus appreared to a couple of people after his resurrection, he certainly didnt say that to them all

the sacrament of reconciliation means alot to every practising Catholic
it gives me as a person a new and fresh page
bcs it is complete reconcilatn. . .
the ability to even talk to someone, have someone advice you, pray with you is a huge blessn
people say we confess our sins to ordinary humans
i dnt blame them really because they dnt knw
everyday i go for confessn, is lik my birthday, and i try to keep the spirit. . . .

viee:

the sacrament of reconciliation means alot to every practising Catholic
it gives me as a person a new and fresh page
bcs it is complete reconcilatn. . .
the ability to even talk to someone, have someone advice you, pray with you is a huge blessn
people say we confess our sins to ordinary humans
i dnt blame them really because they dnt knw
everyday i go for confessn, is lik my birthday, and i try to keep the spirit. . . .

quite apt i must say

Witness:

We may actually never know whether or not what Constantine did, was for the benefit of the Gospel until we get to ask Him ourselves,

simply because when things either look good or bad, they still work for Good for those that trust in the Lord and are called according to His will.

oh witness (formerly known as sysuser, sysuserx, not.seun, sysuser.)
kpele o (sorry) u and seun need to settle o!

Is it right to worship the image of MARY Just because she was the mother of our lord JESUS?? DIDN'T THE 10 COMMANDMENT SAY THY SHALL NOT BOW DOWN BEFOR ANY GRAVY IMAGE, did the bible say except that of MARY?

Ur statement would actually make sense if the Catholics do worship the image of Mary.
Also can you please tell me the difference between Jesus' flesh and a man's flesh? Or Jesus' human form and a man's human form?

why do u ve to confess ur sin to God through a man like u? jesus siad if only thy shall confess ur sins and forsake them i shall forgive u, I wonder why we should go and confess to the chatolic priste or pope, who will the pope confess to when he sined against God?? on the last day the pope shall give account of himself and not you, he is carrying his own cross, (example)TAKE IT THAT THE POPE IS NOT PURE IN HIS HEART AND You GO CONFESSING UR SIN TO HIM, WHEN THE BIBLE SAYS THE PRAYER OF A SINER IS AN ABORMINATION TO GOD. UR SIN WILL REMAIN IN You BECAUSE THE MAN WHOM You SEE AS A PURE MAN IS NOT.

Well then the Bible was wrong in saying "Confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed"
So it's either the Bible is wrong or the Church is wrong which one is it?

I AM NOT HERE TO JUDGE THE POPE BUT TO tell u to do according to the bible, ur sins will only be forgiven if u confessed it to God and not a man who is dressed holy with the most expensive gold in the world The Bible says love not the world neither the things that are in the world. All the images of MARY AND CROSS OF JESUS IS GOLD is that what God really cares about? Be wise don't be deceived, (many shall come in my says the lord) Jesus christ whom the chritians follow was not even worshiped the way the pope is today. Read more of ur bible and be watchful for no one knows the time.

Well thank God that Catholics believe that God forgives sins. You would do well to know the Bible before you speak. Do not deceive yourself.

Shey e never do u people?

Shey e never do u people? 

I guess not.
But people need to understand God and the way he works and before they speak they should do some research. I tell you a lot of things in the Catholic Church is simply common sense and when people start to think, they will understand.

It's so funny, a friend of mine who is converting to Catholicism was telling me about something her mum said. Her mum called her and said "Baby, I tell you, you should stop following the teachings of man, stop folowing what man said, John Hagee said that the Catholic Church is the LovePeddler of Babylon."

I thought that was the most hilarious thing I ever heard. "Bible believing" Chrisitians come against the Catholic Church saying that we go along with the interpretations of man, I wonder are their pastors not man? And they honestly can't say that they don't need pastors and such because that is going against the Bible. If they were not needed why did Christ instruct the apostles to go teach. Was the teaching supposed to stop after their death?

When will people start using common sense?