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Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 10:41am On Jul 16, 2013 |
ktjohnpaul: italo: Please with the write up i will put up here after this post, i advice ktjohnpaul and italo to pick up a bible and read it alongside what i will put up here after this so you will gain understanding. I will try to simplify it so even you would understand and comprehend grammatical expression |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by bukatyne(f): 10:44am On Jul 16, 2013 |
ktjohnpaul: Mary is the Ark of your New Covenant. Mary has no power to keep anybody free from sin. She had to fight for her own salvation. What happened to all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God? If Mary is full of grace, what of Enoch that never tasted death? What of Melchizedek that had no mother or Father? |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 10:46am On Jul 16, 2013 |
[b]Catholics have recited the “Hail Mary” prayer for many years. It includes the words, “Holy Mary, Mother of God.” These words represent one of the most treasured doctrines of Catholicism. In A.D. 431, the Council of Ephesus proclaimed Mary “to be the mother of God because God the Word took flesh and became man and from his very conception united to himself the temple he took from her” . One of the arguments used extensively to support this doctrine is presented as follows: (1) Mary was the mother of Jesus; (2) Jesus is God; (3) therefore, Mary is the “Mother of God.” This syllogism may seem logical, but the conclusion is superficial. Consider the following. First, although the Bible documents that Mary became the mother of Jesus and clearly teaches that Jesus is God, it never states, or even implies, that Mary was (or is) the “Mother of God.” For a theological syllogism to explain correctly the relationship between Mary and God, it must be based on biblical truth. We can propose correctly that (1) Jesus is God (Hebrews 1: 8 ) (2) God became flesh (John 1:1,14 ) (3) therefore, Mary is the mother of Jesus according to the flesh (Romans 9: 5 ), i.e., Jesus’ physical body. Second, we should keep in mind that Deity is not constituted by a literal family—with fathers, mothers, sons, and daughters—like some of the gods of Greek and Roman mythology. Although we refer to the first and second Persons of the Godhead as the Father and the Son, these titles do not denote a literal familial bond, but emphasize Their united and divine nature. To refer to Mary as the “Mother of God” is to misunderstand the nature of Deity and misapply Scripture. Third, consider the consequences which develop from such an inappropriate use of the syllogism aforementioned. Since the Bible records that Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18 ), Catholics conclude that it is correct to refer to Mary as “the daughter of God the Father, Mother of Jesus Christ, and true spouse of the Holy Spirit” If the Holy Spirit is Mary’s “husband” (and, therefore, Jesus’ “father”), and Jesus is God, would not the Holy Spirit be the “father” of God? This is not only a completely erroneous application of Scripture, but also blasphemous theology. Now let us consider some additional evidence from the Bible that further explains Mary’s relationship to God. God does not have a physical mother. Speaking to the Son, the Father declared, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever” (Hebrews 1: 8 ). In God’s revelation to the apostle John, the resurrected Christ said, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,...who is and who was and who is to come” (Revelation 1: 8 ). The Son did not have a beginning; He is the Beginning. “He was in the beginning with God” (John 1:1- 2 ). Paul pointed out, “He is before all things, and in Him all things consist” (Colossians 1:17). The Son’s existence did not begin with His conception in Mary’s womb. He was alive in eternity ( Micah 5:2), and, at the right time in history, He became flesh (John 1:1,14). Paul put it this way: “But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law” (Galatians 4:4). On the other hand, Mary came into a time-bound world long after the creation of the Universe. She, like all human beings, was not eternal. She was not divine, not “from everlasting to everlasting” (Micah 5:2). She could not have provided an eternal nature to her Son. He is Deity. He is the “eternally blessed God” (Romans 9:5). Consider how Jesus explained His divine nature. When addressing the Pharisees, He asked them: “‘What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?’ They said to Him, ‘The son of David.’ He said to them, ‘How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord’.... If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?’” (Matthew 22:42-45). The Pharisees failed to answer the question correctly because they were thinking about the physical nature of the Messiah. While Christ was a physical descendant of David ( Luke 1:32; Matthew 1:1), according to His divine nature He did not have a physical father, since He Himself is before all (John 8:58 ). In the same way that David could not be the father of the divine Messiah since he called Him “Lord,” Mary cannot be the “Mother of God” since she calls Him “Lord” in Luke 1:38,46-47. The truth is, as Paul explains, “according to the flesh, Christ came” through the patriarchs, David, and, yes, Mary, but according to His deity, He is the “eternally blessed God” who is over all (Romans 9:5 ). Mary never was considered the “Mother of God.” There is not a single verse in the Bible that describes Mary as the “Mother of God.” In fact, none of the inspired writers of either the Old or New Testament gave even a hint that she should be regarded as such. This idea is based purely on human tradition. Mary considered herself as a “maidservant of the Lord” (Luke 1:38 ) and considered God as her “Savior” (Luke 1:47). Sadly, many have distorted this concept. When speaking about the blessing of being chosen by God to be the mother of the Messiah, Mary declared: “For He [God] has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant” (Luke 1:48). Certainly the words “lowly state” would be inappropriate to refer to Mary if she is the “Mother of God.” the Greek word for “lowly state” is tapeinosis, which denotes “abasement, humiliation, or low estate” Mary was conscious of the humble state of her human condition. Additionally, the New Testament makes it very clear Who became flesh. It was God Who took on the form of a man (John 1:14) and was born of a woman (Galatians 4:4). The woman did not become “divine” in order to conceive the Son of God. The Bible mentions Mary as the mother of Jesus, but never as the “Mother of God” (Mark 3:31; Luke 8:19; Acts 1:14).[/b] |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by bukatyne(f): 10:48am On Jul 16, 2013 |
YMCgyna: You are the ones that are confused. Jesus Christ (God) left His Glory above and came down to earth in human form. If you believe in trinity and say that Mary is the mother of God (The Son), how can He (God) feel hunger? Pain, how can God die? How can God forsake God? You guys should wake up and smell the coffee |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by joilin(f): 10:55am On Jul 16, 2013 |
anitank: You do nothing. We just pray to her to intercede on our behalfif u are praying to mary to intercede on ur behalf then what is Jesus doing at the right hand of God. Is he not interceding for you |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 10:56am On Jul 16, 2013 |
bukatyne: .. I love this lady |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by ktjohnpaul(m): 10:56am On Jul 16, 2013 |
naijadeyhia: ' I am not singling you out of the lot, but I happen to love your passion to make a point about your believes which have led you to go over board and appear violent by using bold text in read colour making it highly repugnant to read. You may want to sub pedal on that approach so we can have a decent conversation. However my real query with you is that you have not redressed the fundamental issues I raised with you yesterday even when you noted you will. Like many other people, if we do not address the issues raised, this post may end becoming a ranting party, that fails to teach, instruct and counsel. As a Catholic, I am open to accepts my errors and acknowledge strengths in other argument, with the Bible as my guide. HAVING SAID ALL THAT Paul says in 1 Timothy 2:1- “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men.” (may be no intercessions for women, since only men is mentioned in scripture here) So asking for intercessory prayer is a very biblical thing to do, especially from a holy person like Mary (James 5:16). So how can Mary hear thousands of prayers said to her daily from all over the world? Isn’t she just a human being and not God? Catholics believe we share in God’s divinity when we are in heaven. Why? Because of the words of Peter, in 2 Pet.1:3: "His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence 4: by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature." We see from these verses of Peter that saints in heaven are partakers in the divine nature, which includes hearing prayers. Saints in heaven have no power of their own. All of their power comes from Christ Jesus, who shares it with them. We know that they witness for us, because of the words of St. Paul, in Hebrews 12:1: “Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses…” Witnesses testify to a judge on behalf of the accused, and Paul here is saying that the saints in heaven are our witnesses. Asking these witnesses, especially Mary, to help us with our problems is a very good thing to do. Some people make the mistake of thinking that praying to a saint equals worshiping that saint like he/she is a god, but “to pray” simply means “to ask”, not “to worship”. |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by bukatyne(f): 10:59am On Jul 16, 2013 |
Syncan: Was the baptism of John of water or of the Spirit? What righteousness was he trying to fulfill? |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 11:02am On Jul 16, 2013 |
chukwudi44: The remarkable thing, however, about Peter’s alleged bishopric in Rome, is that the New Testament has not one word to say about it. The word Rome occurs only nine times in the Bible, and never is Peter mentioned in connection with it. There is no allusion to Rome in either of his epistles. Paul’s journey to that city is recorded in great detail (Acts 27 and 28). There is in fact no New Testament evidence, nor any historical proof of any kind, that Peter ever was in Rome. All rests on legend. The first twelve chapters of the book of Acts tell of Peter’s ministry and travels in Palestine and Syria. Surely if he had gone to the capital of the empire, that would have been mentioned. We may well ask, if Peter was superior to Paul, why does he receive so little attention after Paul comes on the scene?@bolded is a wrong reasoning of scriptures.You don't have to be among the twelve to be called an Apostle by God.It was evident in scriptures that Paul had an apostolic mandate to the gentile nations.Stop belittling Paul here abeg.Try to do a study on the five fold ministry gifts. |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 11:02am On Jul 16, 2013 |
vicope: |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 11:02am On Jul 16, 2013 |
bukatyne: So the biblical verse must mention both @ the same time for it to be true.What a shallow way of reasoning.So even when a verse explicitly states Mary is the mother of the Lord we should wait for it to be simultaneously stated with Jesus been the son of God for it to be valid? |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by bukatyne(f): 11:02am On Jul 16, 2013 |
honeric01: He is confusing the water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism? |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by bukatyne(f): 11:05am On Jul 16, 2013 |
slim147: Mary is powerful? What power does she have? Oyedepo worships a demon? Let's assume we really do not know who Oyedepo worships; Is Mary more powerful than the God of Elijah? |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by honeric01(m): 11:06am On Jul 16, 2013 |
ochongonoko: May God teach us more of his ways. |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by nnatom: 11:10am On Jul 16, 2013 |
naijadeyhia: u are a big liar, u interpretation of rev 18 is a big lie.what!may God forgive u. |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 11:10am On Jul 16, 2013 |
naijadeyhia: |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 11:10am On Jul 16, 2013 |
I WANT TO POSE A QUESTION FROM THE FLESH TO MY CATHOLIC MINDED BRETHREN. AND PLEASE INDULGE ME BY GIVING ME ALL THE ANSWERS YOU CAN, THIS QUESTION IS RELATED TO THE ISSUE AT HAND. IS A SURROGATE GENETICALLY RELATED TO A CHILD? |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 11:13am On Jul 16, 2013 |
Bidam: @bolded is a wrong reasoning of scriptures.You don't have to be among the twelve to be called an Apostle by God.It was evident in scriptures that Paul had an apostolic mandate to the gentile nations.Stop belittling Paul here abeg.Try to do a study on the five fold ministry gifts. Bidam: @bolded is a wrong reasoning of scriptures.You don't have to be among the twelve to be called an Apostle by God.It was evident in scriptures that Paul had an apostolic mandate to the gentile nations.Stop belittling Paul here abeg.Try to do a study on the five fold ministry gifts. The book of Revelation explplicitly claims the the new Jerusalem stands on 12 pillars representing the 12 apostles of the lamb.The number 12 is a definite number.Even after Judas's death only one person was chosen to replace him out of 2 just to complete the number 12. St Paul in spite of is industry is not really an apostle in the true sense of the word.He is to be ranked alongside Barnabas,Apollos,Stephen and others who played major roles after the resurrection. |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 11:15am On Jul 16, 2013 |
chukwudi44: I saw all the examples from the scriptures that was used to show the light but you didn't agree, so I don't think I will be wasting trying to show you where God talked about graven images.. Keep up with idolatary |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 11:16am On Jul 16, 2013 |
chukwudi44: My pastors are not dead, mary is.. |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by nnatom: 11:17am On Jul 16, 2013 |
bukatyne: go tell angel gabriel why he was hailing mary and telling her she was full of grace. My bro go si don. Pple jst like saying things sha. |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 11:17am On Jul 16, 2013 |
bukatyne: That's how he acts.. Just foaming in his mouth |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 11:18am On Jul 16, 2013 |
naijadeyhia: I WANT TO POSE A QUESTION FROM THE FLESH TO MY CATHOLIC MINDED BRETHREN. AND PLEASE INDULGE ME BY GIVING ME ALL THE ANSWERS YOU CAN, THIS QUESTION IS RELATED TO THE ISSUE AT HAND. Jesus is not a surrogate child of Mary.His humanity was sourced from Mary.His flesh and blood were genetically derived from her.Stop bringing all this childish analogies |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by bukatyne(f): 11:21am On Jul 16, 2013 |
CAMEROONPRIDE: The 'brothers' of Mary are his cousins? Are you saying the word cousin is not in the Bible? Don't you think the Bible would have specified it considering the fact that it was specified that Mark was Barnabas' cousin? Col 4: 10 What happened to the marriage of Mary and Joseph? |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 11:21am On Jul 16, 2013 |
chukwudi44: [b]Exodus 20:3 - Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Exodus 20:4-5 - Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: 5 - Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; Acts 17:29 - Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. Leviticus 26:1 - Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up [any] image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I [am] the LORD your God. Deuteronomy 4:16-19 - 16 Lest ye corrupt [yourselves], and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, 17 The likeness of any beast that [is] on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, 18 The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that [is] in the waters beneath the earth: 19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, [even] all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.[/b] 1 Like |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 11:22am On Jul 16, 2013 |
bukatyne: |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 11:23am On Jul 16, 2013 |
chukwudi44: CAN YOU SHOW ME WHERE IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT CLEARLY STATES THAT CHRISTS HUMANITY AND GENETICS WERE DERIVED FROM HER |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by bukatyne(f): 11:24am On Jul 16, 2013 |
koladebrainiac: Is this what you are taught in your gathering? If mary is the mother of Jesus (God), are you saying God died on the cross of calvary? I want a yes or no answer |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 11:28am On Jul 16, 2013 |
ochongonoko: "When the dead raise to life they will be like angels I am the God of abraham,Isaac and Jacob.I am the God of the living and not of the dead." Jesus sain this in reply to the question of the woman who married 7 brothers. I believe you understand what he meant.Those who die in christ are alive.Thatz why he reffered to. Abraham,isaac and Jacob as been alive even when they were supposed to be long dead |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 11:29am On Jul 16, 2013 |
chukwudi44: I WILL STILL ANSWER YOU FROM THE FLESH BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND. TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT. MARY WAS SIMPLY A SURROGATE. THE SEED OF CHRIST CAME FROM GOD AND ALL MARY DID WAS CARRY THE SEED TO TERM. IT TAKES THE RELEASE OF AN EGG AND THE INSEMINATION OF A SPERM FOR CONCEPTION TO OCCUR. GOD DIDNT NEED MARRYS EGGS BECAUSE THEY WERE ALREADY STAINED WITH SIN NEITHER DID HE NEED JOSEPHS SPERM BECAUSE THEY WERE ALSO STAINED WITH SIN SO HE DID EXACTLY WHAT HE DID IN GENESIS WHEN MAN WAS FORMED! GOD NEEDED A SURROGATE AND MARYY WAS AVAILABLE. MARY HAD THE POWER TO SAY NO AS GOD WILL NOT FORCE US AGAINST OUR WILL BUT SHE WAS WILLING TO BE USED IN ORDER TO FULFIL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS. A SURROGATE HAS NO GENETIC LINK TO THE CHILD. MAY GOD OPEN YOUR EYES TO THE TRUTH |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by bukatyne(f): 11:30am On Jul 16, 2013 |
ktjohnpaul: Nobody argues about intercession. Our problem is that Mary a dead person is the 'Intercessor.' If you are looking for a heavenly intercessor, what about the Holy Spirit? Rom 8 : 26 Why leave the Holy Spirit as ask a dead person to intercede for you? If you are asking your Physical Rev Fr who is with you to pray for you, there is no problem. |
Re: In Jesus Name, All Knees Bow; In Mary's Name, What Happens? by Nobody: 11:30am On Jul 16, 2013 |
naijadeyhia: [b]Catholics have recited the “Hail Mary” prayer for many years. It includes the words, “Holy Mary, Mother of God.” These words represent one of the most treasured doctrines of Catholicism. In A.D. 431, the Council of Ephesus proclaimed Mary “to be the mother of God because God the Word took flesh and became man and from his very conception united to himself the temple he took from her” . One of the arguments used extensively to support this doctrine is presented as follows: (1) Mary was the mother of Jesus; (2) Jesus is God; (3) therefore, Mary is the “Mother of God.” This syllogism may seem logical, but the conclusion is superficial. Consider the following. Hehehehe.. Will be saving this quote for any catholic to come up with the mary is the mother of God blah blahblah.. Thanks naijadeyhia |
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