superior1:

Now, I can understand where you missed it.

Satans and his angels fall was it before or after adam was created?

Superior. Satan and his demons were cast out even after the first century. Rev. 1:1; 12:7-10.

Satan fell before adam, the angels fell in the time of noah. Whether others fell at other periods, the bible never revealed. So what do u want to draw from that.

JMAN05: Superior. Satan and his demons were cast out even after the first century. Rev. 1:1; 12:7-10.

rabzy: Satan fell before adam, the angels fell in the time of noah. Whether others fell at other periods, the bible never revealed. So what do u want to draw from that.

Instead of sticking to the point he is now talking about angels when the topic was about HELL and People.

Good work !

rabzy: Satan fell before adam, the angels fell in the time of noah. Whether others fell at other periods, the bible never revealed. So what do u want to draw from that.

Read this, I emphasis 3, 4 and 9
Revelation 12 vs 3-9
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Frosbel u ve not answered my question on why u said no one is going to hell (grave) and heaven. The scriptures u used in supporting it those not support ur statement.

superior1:

Read this, I emphasis 3, 4 and 9
Revelation 12 vs 3-9
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I have answered ur question SUPERIOR. The book of revelation is about "things that will SHORTLY take place". Rev.1:1. It is not a vision of things that HAD already taken place. John wrote revelation towards the end of the first century CE. So it wont be reasonable to conclude that the casting of satan took place before the first century.

You have gone far deeper. Okay, when I said fell, I meant when they sinned against God and was out of favour from God. The one u cited is what took place later and it resulted into the physical banishment of satan to the earth with no ability to enter or interfere in the goings-on in heaven.

You can believe what you so desire but the scripture can't be subverted to suit our arguments.

Satan fell with some of the angelic host even before adam was created. They have been working all over the earth seeking whom to devour. They are highly organised into Prinicipalities, Powers and Rulers. They have titles and dominion like Paul told the phillipians. Prince of Persia fought the angel bringing message to Daniel.

Like you suspected I will say, the angels transferred to Tartarus where the ones that messed up with daughters of men and caused evil to multiply through their giant offspring which brought the Noahs flood.

@Frosbel, I am still coming to the main issue although I suspect you have made up your mind on what to believe but for the sake of those who are reading this, it will be like Joshua options, every man will take the one he is convinced to be real. May God help us to maintain our salvation.

Peace

[quote author=superior1]

Like you suspected I will say, the angels transferred to Tartarus where the ones that messed up with daughters of men and caused evil to multiply through their giant offspring which brought the Noahs flood.

Angels cannot procreate with human beings , this is the stuff of fiction and myth.

Mintayo:

God bless you bro...d issue with christains today is d inability to take d Word of God as it is-satan is really using "my interpretation" to decieve so many so called christains!
I once told somebody that whenever he is coming into NL religion section,he shld just hold on to d word of God(bible)firmly and study it,bcus u will c many heresy and Lies in d section.
Study d Bible with d help of d Holy Spirit nt with frosbel or obadiah interpretations-d Holy Spirit is d author of d Bible,HE ALONE CAN GIVE D BEST INTERPRETATION!
God bless.

TRUTH. God bless you dear.

And to support what was said above by jaman. Jesus said in john 12v31 that there is a judging of d world and the ruler of this world will be cast out. That's an event for the future.the revelation of John was a confirmation of the prophesy. t

There is nowhere in the scriptures where it was said that angels fell before adam. The scriptures said satan was the father of d first lie and that lie was sold to adam and eve. Then in the punishment meted out in the garden, all the culprits were addressed. There is nothing that indicates that as at then angels were involved in the rebellion. The earliest mention of angels rebelling was at the time of noah.

alexleo:

Bros this are your own descriptions and ideas. The scripture said forever and ever, we will leave at that. The scripture said day and night. We will leave it at that. The scripture said they ll be tormented, we ll leave it at that. The bible did not mention that they ll exist in paradise. No addition or minus by any of us is allowed here sir. Thanks.

But revelation was written in signs ? No ?

truthislight:

But revelation was written in signs ? No ?

I believe in 10 headed dragons, evil beings with women's hair and lions teeth etc etc.

what are you saying ?

Did i use my word or i quoted the book of Revelation to show how the bible use the word 'torment' ?

Any way, my post was not directed at you.
Those that appreciate the truth will read and understand.

I have posted the Revelation for others to see how the word torment is used there.

alexleo:

This is just your own words and ideas. The bible said they were cast into the lake of fire and tormented there forever and ever. You cant change it with your own words. Its not allowed here. You people talk about sticking to the bible yet when we stick to the bible you import your own words and explanations. It doesnt work that way. I dont need your explanations or what you feel, i need what the bible says.

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth." (Revelation 11:3-10).

truthislight:

But revelation was written in signs ? No ?

You are the one saying it. I don't need what you said. I ll go with what the scriture said.

truthislight: what are you saying ?

Did i use my word or i quoted the book of Revelation to show how the bible use the word 'torment' ?

Any way, my post was not directed at you.
Those that appreciate the truth will read and understand.

I have posted the Revelation for others to see how the word torment is used there.


"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth." (Revelation 11:3-10).

Bros I don't need all those your mixing up. Revelations 20 talks about people tormented in the lake of fire forever and ever and you are here using this one you quoted to mix it up. No sir. They are two different events. I just laugh when you people scream about knowing the truth. Which truth? Defining scripture in your own terms is truth? No. Truth is to believe the scripture not your ideas or explanations. Torment can come in any shape. There is no place that the bible told us to use the torment in the revelation 11:3-11 that you quoted to define what torment should be. Its totally your own idea and I reject it.
I insist that we must stick to what the scripture said. Drop all those your quotes that you use to claim that this is what the scripture means by torment. You are not the one that wrote the scriptures and you were not there when it was written to be sure of what you are saying. I ll rather stick to whatever the scripture said. I don't need anybody or any church's definition or ideas or thoughts about it.

superior1:

Bro, do you believe the entirety of the scriptures as infallible inspired word of God upon which every issue on doctrine should be resolved.?

Revelation is written in symbols and signs.

Why go literal ?

superior1:

What if we can prove that Tartarus Peter mentioned was the same Gehenna?

Gehenna was a refuse dump outside the walls of Jerusalem.

frosbel:

I believe in 10 headed dragons, evil beings with women's hair and lions teeth etc etc.

Feel free not to believe. Your believe or non believe doesnt change anything. I believe in what the scripture said. Am not adding anything to it or subtracting and i dont believe in any addition or subtraction to it under whatever explanations/teachings.

superior1:

Peter used that word tartarus instead of hades, why?. Yorubas use the word Esu (one of the dieties) as Satan for lack of better word to use. A new very rural Christian community in Asia do not know what bread, so their bible reported 'Jesus is the rice of life' since rice is the only food they can relate with. Peter used Tartarus for a specific reason and any simple mind can easily understand the message he was passing to them.

When Tartarus is used by greeks, they are talking of a place not a condition. Peter said they are being binded in chains, do you bind people in chains and reserve them in chains in a place or just a condition of roaming about like you claimed?

You have a very big problem.

Those fallen angels in Noah's day were refused entrance into heaven and bared from materialiising into humans, but held inbetween in that state.

You are here saying they are in hell ?

Smh for you.

Can literal chains hold spiritual being ?

You have a long way to go.

I dont know what your are up to.

The angels that we are talking about are the ones that sinned in the days of noah.

superior1:

Now, I can understand where you missed it.

Satans and his angels fall was it before or after adam was created?

"And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart." (Genesis 6:1-6).
........
^
The sons of God (angels) came down and marry the daughters of men befor the flood.

frosbel:

I believe in 10 headed dragons, evil beings with women's hair and lions teeth etc etc.

Alexo have nothing to offer.

He is here hanging with his teeth to a literal understanding to a book written in symbols.

Who cares what he thinks !

frosbel: Angels cannot procreate with human beings , this is the stuff of fiction and myth.

@truthislight, Comment on the above by frosbel talking about Sons of God and daughters of men in Noah's time

truthislight:

You have a very big problem.

Those fallen angels in Noah's day were refused entrance into heaven and bared from materialiising into humans, but held inbetween in that state.

You are here saying they are in hell ?

Smh for you.

Can literal chains hold spiritual being ?

You have a long way to go.

Can you point to the bible verse that support this theory as written by you?

truthislight: I dont know what your are up to.

The angels that we are talking about are the ones that sinned in the days of noah.



"And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart." (Genesis 6:1-6).
........
^
The sons of God (angels) came down and marry the daughters of men befor the flood.

And your point is what sir?

truthislight:

Revelation is written in symbols and signs.

Why go literal ?

What is your definition of symbols and signs?

truthislight:

Alexo have nothing to offer.

He is here hanging with his teeth to a literal understanding to a book written in symbols.

Who cares what he thinks !

You don't like as he is holding purely to the word of God? Your post shows you are biased. The book of revelation is not all symbols. Is the new earth and new heaven not to be taken literally? Is dead rising not to be taken literally? I join alexeo in holding to God's word. Both you and ur colleagues have no answer to my conclusion, that's why you all avoided it.

rabzy: And to support what was said above by jaman. Jesus said in john 12v31 that there is a judging of d world and the ruler of this world will be cast out. That's an event for the future.the revelation of John was a confirmation of the prophesy. t

A prophesy which made reference to past occurrence. Devil's defeat is in the past eg Let's agree you got married 2 weeks ago (past event) and I now prophesied your wife will give birth to a triplet in 9 months time(future event). Those that make the two events (your marriage and triplet) a future event prophesied?

olumyde: Luke 16:19-31 is another vivid description, but they say its a parable, even though Jesus didn't give any other meaning to the passage, i'm still waiting for someone that will come and give us HIS OWN meaning. I will conclude with this. According to Mark 9:42-48, there is a terrible place/condition awaiting sinners, whatever name you call it, either you believe its immediately after death or later. This place/condition is so terrible, no matter how we try to water it down, dt Jesus said its better to cut our hands and pluck out our eyes than for us to be thrown into it. Meaning d pain we'll feel by cutting off our hands or plucking out our eyes, can not be compared to if we are thrown into that place/condition. THERE IS A TERRIBLE PLACE OR CONDITION AWAITING UNREPENTANT SINNERS. Thats what Jesus was trying to tell them, which good christians continue to tell the world, that there is a place/condition we desperately need to avoid. If anybody disagrees with this, they should take it up with Jesus.

and this is my conclusion according to Mark 9, which you people are avoiding.

alexleo:

There are lots of unanswered questions they have in this issue. We are all delibrating and i pray God to intervene so that none of us will be on the wrong track which means ending in eternal damnation,

Amen!