millco88:

You have a superstar, another potential superstar, the perfect PG to complement Wade and a top 25 player in Marion. If we add a MLE center a la Diop, we can compete w/ the Big 3.

And I didn't even mention Haslem.

  "potential" is the key word in there brotha and "If"
  Marion is a more than solid player, versatile I give you that
And I'm factoring in injury-prone Wade, who by the way will not be getting any rest this summer, showing up for the new season already partially spent, does not bode well for the heat.

JeSoul:

"potential" is the key word in there brotha and "If"
Marion is a more than solid player, versatile I give you that
And I'm factoring in injury-prone Wade, who by the way will not be getting any rest this summer, showing up for the new season already partially spent, does not bode well for the heat.

With Riley as our GM, anything is possible. I'm sure he will find a way to get us the big, rebound and shot-blocking C that we lack.

Look what he did yesterday at the draft. The guy is brilliant. He got us a solid PG for a bag of rocks. We were rated as having the best draft by ESPN.

Beasley is more a sure thing. Certainly not a potential player. Not strickly a mere potential player, as you claim.

Potential players are guys like Jordan, Randolph, and Rose. Beasley was able to put up 26/12 consistently in a major conference while getting triple-teamed on a nightly basis. He has had by the far the best freshman season in recent memory, broke the double-double record for a freshman, etc.

And barring a Wade injury, I think this team is ready 2 years.

The heat are in my shit list because of Riley. What an opportunist.
He kicked Van Gundy out so he could take all the glory. Somebody say S-n-a-k-e

And can someone please tell me why Shawn Marion has such a huge contract.
All that money for a defensive stopper. I don't see James Posey getting anywhere
near what he gets. Nba is the league democracy forgot.

About the Nets. . . . . . .After all these moves, if they don't get Lebron in '10
ol boy, the owners will sure love to get rid of the team. Good young talent
though. oh yes, bloody Vince Carter who has morphed into a jumpshooter
should get shifted. To the Celtics hopefully.

doyin13:

The heat are in my shit list because of Riley. What an opportunist.
He kicked Van Gundy out so he could take all the glory. Somebody say S-n-a-k-e

And can someone please tell me why Shawn Marion has such a huge contract.
All that money for a defensive stopper. I don't see James Posey getting anywhere
near what he gets. Nba is the league democracy forgot.

About the Nets. . . . . . .After all these moves, if they don't get Lebron in '10
ol boy, the owners will sure love to get rid of the team. Good young talent
though. oh yes, bloody Vince Carter who has morphed into a jumpshooter
should get shifted. To the Celtics hopefully.

Riley didn't run SVG outta town. Shaq ran SVG outta town, chief.

And Marion is a MUCH BETTER PLAYER than Posey. Poseys a poor man's Marion.
Posey just happens to be the perfect role player.
Marion does everything at the highest level.

[img]http://youtube.com/watch?v=BsCrHKx-Lq4[/img]

Oh Brother. . . .do tell.

Does he rebound so much better, or is he a far better shooter.?

Enlighten me

doyin13:

Oh Brother. . . .do tell.

Does he rebound so much better, or is he a far better shooter.?

Enlighten me

If Posey is nearly as good as Marion, then why isn't he a starter? There is a reason. Look at their per 36 minutes stats, and come back to me.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/poseyja01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mariosh01.html

Marion: 17.4 PPG | 9.6 RPG | 1.9 APG | 1.8 SPG | 1.3 BPG | .481 FG | .341 3-PT | .821 FT | 1.5 TPG
Posey: 11.9 PPG | 6.3 RPG | 2.3 APG | 1.5 SPG | 0.5 BPG | .416 FG | .351 3-PT | .820 FT | 1.6 TPG

And thats playing the same # of minutes. Marion virtually destroys Posey in just about every category while committing less turnovers

Abegi. . . .Na Stats we wan chop

doyin13:

Abegi. . . .Na Stats we wan chop

That's all ya got?

I base my logic on factual, objective evidence and that's what you can bring to the table?

millco88:

That's all ya got?

I base my logic on factual, objective evidence and that's what you can bring to the table?

Guy, speak English

But seriously. . , I feel stats are overated. A bloody American pastime.

I know what I see, and what me I see is an overpaid Shawn Marion. Kapish

doyin13:

Guy, speak English

But seriously. . , I feel stats are overated. A bloody American pastime.

I know what I see, and what me I see is an overpaid Shawn Marion. Kapish

Never argued against that. It'll help to learn some comprehension skills.

You compared him to James Posey. That's where the problem began.

That's an insult to Marion.

well i will be doing players in his earnings bracket a disservice
if i used them for comparison.

watch out for the 20th pick alex ajinca. that guy has mad skills, he's long (7ft, 7ft8 wingspan), has shooting range, can block, he's fast and he can jump. he looks like he's goin make some noise in the nba immediately. too bad he was traded to denver, at least he's going to learn from 2 time defensive player of the year (and he should have been an all-star last season) marcus camby.

also, i thing anthony randolph, the 14th pick, will do very well immediately.

and my prediction on new york's pick was spot on although they would have been better of with brook lopez (because new york dosent have an impact back up foward/centre). i wonder why he was booed when he was selected.

finally, too many guards in the draft.

@doyin13
Na wa ooh? do you know anything about basketball at all how can you compare Shawn Marion to James Posey

@gabe_logan
Denver is looking good and everyone needs a big man and they seem to have gotten a good one

@Jesoul
D'Antoni i just hope he would be able to handle that pressure the guy seems a pretty low key dude and you know New York now? everyone and their grandma has an opinion on the Knicks

I forgot to add the Vince Carter has been a disaster so far i think their chance of greatness has long passed them by they might not make it to the playoffs next season either and now they let go of Jefferson their GM should be fired

@A-40

my comparison might have been a tad facetious but I still maintain Marion's game isn't worth the
huge contract he has and his move to the Heat at the tail end of last season proved it.

He is athletic yes, defensively dynamic but he is no better than a good third option on a team.

I am yet to be convinced he can really create his own shots off the dribble.

A spot up shooter earning 19 mil per. . . . . . .Gimme a break jo

@doyin
I agree his contract was over bloated but i think thats widespread across the whole Nba there are a lot of players that shouldnt be earning half of what they are but Marion brings a lot to the table and you cant sweat that

A-40:

@doyin
I agree his contract was over bloated but i think thats widespread across the whole Nba there are a lot of players that shouldnt be earning half of what they are but Marion brings a lot to the table and you can't sweat that

I agree on all fronts, including his inability to create his own shot. One Heat journalist predicted Marion will no longer be with the Heat by this season.
Marion is a very good player. It's just his contract. Riley made a offer only for Marions agent not to respond.

That Marion for Odom & Farmer deal is tempting.

The heat are in my shit list because of Riley. What an opportunist.
He kicked Van Gundy out so he could take all the glory. Somebody say S-n-a-k-e

And can someone please tell me why Shawn Marion has such a huge contract.
All that money for a defensive stopper. I don't see James Posey getting anywhere
near what he gets. Nba is the league democracy forgot.

About the Nets. . . . . . .After all these moves, if they don't get Lebron in '10
ol boy, the owners will sure love to get rid of the team. Good young talent
though. oh yes, bloody Vince Carter who has morphed into a jumpshooter
should get shifted. To the Celtics hopefully.

Lol. . . You no well! Even if Ainge was having his worst, stupidest day he would not permit such an abomination to happen!

I think Posey is in for a nice contract after his play these past playoffs. He's proven his worth at just the right time. . . and speaking of overpaid players, that would include 75% of the knicks roster.

doyin13:

@A-40

my comparison might have been a tad facetious but I still maintain Marion's game isn't worth the
huge contract he has and his move to the Heat at the tail end of last season proved it.

He is athletic yes, defensively dynamic but he is no better than a good third option on a team.

I am yet to be convinced he can really create his own shots off the dribble.

A spot up shooter earning 19 mil per. . . . . . .Gimme a break jo

Hit the nail on the head!

So Millico when you say

millco88:

That Marion for Odom & Farmer deal is tempting.

a big mistake! switch Odom for another 2-3rd tier player to continue to live under the shadows of kobe?
What La needs is a bonafide & proven superstar that can hold his own. . . _{and will not succumb to bullying from kobe}

A-40:

@Jesoul
D'Antoni i just hope he would be able to handle that pressure the guy seems a pretty low key dude and you know New York now? everyone and their grandma has an opinion on the Knicks

Just give him a few months, hehe, me I don't think he has the _____ to last in Zoo york. His only chance is to go sentimental and "win" the hearts of the fans so that they show him so mercy on the tabloids or else. . . he'll need ta keep the Tylenol bottle real close

A-40:

I forgot to add the Vince Carter has been a disaster so far i think their chance of greatness has long passed them by they might not make it to the playoffs next season either and now they let go of Jefferson their GM should be fired

Yup Carter's time has come and gone with the wind. I don't see NJ being significant anytime soon. I'm not sure why they traded bonafide all-star Jefferson for an untested, unproven, who-knows-if-he'll-be-a-good-player Yi? Its times like this I think I could be a real good GM. . .

but you know what, I'm suspecting they're getting rid of contracts to open room for them to make a mega-freeagent deal - like perhaps Lebron in '10?

From the minute the Heat traded Shaq, Pat Riley and many of our fans started obsessing about how to land our next 20/10 post presence to complement Wade and make us champs again. Most experts and fans are of the opinion that the heat now have that 20/10 PF in the form of Michael Beasley -- and we have to assume Riley & Co believe so as well or else they wouldn't have taken him.

Now that Wade/Beasley are in place and should be fixtures for years to come, our focus MUST shift from the Boozer/Brand obsession of the past few months to giving Wade/Beasley exactly what they need to become champions. So what do we do? Who is this magical, signable player in 2009 who can come in and have such an impact . . .and who doesn't already play SG or PF where we are all set?

What we've all been missing (Riley too) is that probably a third (or even half) of the restricted guys on the market THIS offseason will just end up signing one-year tenders, and be UNRESTRICTED in 12 months. All are young/improving and fit with Wade/Beasley better than the older Boozer and Brand would. The list:

Restricted This Year - Maybe a Third/Half of Them UNRESTRICTED Next Year
- Josh Smith ,  taller, younger Marion --- absolutely ideal fit offensively and defensively
- Emeka Okafor ,  much needed defensive presence at center and under basket
- Andre Iguodala ,  awesome at SF next to Wade/Beasley
- Monta Ellis ,  ridiculous backcourt combo with Wade, can play 12 years with Beasley
- Andris Biedrins ,  top young center, hard to find, leaves money for another FA too
- Luol Deng ,  see Iguadola
- Ben Gordon ,  wouldn't fit as well as other guys, but deadly shooter and solid defender
- Jose Calderon ,  sets up Wade and Beasley for years like no one's business
- Louis Williams ,  cheaper than other guys, allowing us to sign two FAs
- Josh Childress ,  same as Lou Williams

Add that to unrestricted's next year who would fit for shorter term
- Baron Davis
- Lamar Odom
- Ron Artest (plus someone else)
- Allen Iverson
- Corey Maggette (could be FA next yr, we'll see)
- Andre Miller (plus someone else)
- Rasheed Wallace (plus someone else)
- Jason Kidd (bleh)

Plus some restricted's next year who are probably attainable with nice offer
- Marvin Williams
- Ray Felton
- Other dudes who would also leave us with money for someone else


Possible "Big 3s" Until Wade Retires
- Wade/Josh Smith/Beasley
- Wade/Beasely/Okafor
- Wade/Iguadola/Beasley
- Wade/Deng/Beasley

Possible "Big 3's" for Shortterm Title Runs
- Iverson/Wade/Beasley
- B Davis/Wade/Beasley
- Wade/Odom/Beasley
- Wade/Maron/Beasley ,  duh
- or a psychotic Big 4 of Wade/Artest/Beasley/RWallace

By rule, whatever restricted guys don't sign multi-year deals this year will be unrestricted free agents next year.

I listed I think 10 impact guys who are in that position this year, and it wouldn't be surprising to see a couple of them not being able to come to terms with their cheap-ass teams, thus being unrestricted when we have max cap space in 12 months.

I'd like to have Bosh in 2010 too. But if I'm sitting there in 2009 with max cap space and someone like Josh Smith is there for the taking, then I call him at the stroke of midnight and he wants to come to Miami and take what we have to offer, why should I pass on that 100% commitment from him to wait another year for like a 10% chance at Bosh? That would be a big mistake, IMO.

That's like when we had cap space for Brand/Odom in 2003, should we have said "No, let's just wait. We'll have even more cap space next year when Kobe Bryant's a free agent, so let's wait and roll the dice on him." Of course not. If Brand or Odom says they'll sign with you RIGHT NOW, you take that 100% commitment rather than wait another year for a 10% chance at Kobe. That's exacty what Riley did in 2003 fortunately, and will do again if presented the same decision in 2009.

As far as Riley saying "we need to protect our backside for 2010" , it's pretty obvious to me that means we're not going to take any more Banks-like contracts that will tie up the cap that summer JUST IN CASE WADE LEAVES and we need to use his resulting space to rebuild. In other words, don't take on any bad contracts and *assume* you'll just go over the cap to re-sign Wade in 2010 , You need to protect your backside in case he leaves, and if he does you need to have that $15 mill available to get someone else. Which you would have regardless of whether you got a big FA in 2009.

The phrase "protecting your backside in 2010" doesn't mean we're going to sit out free agency for the next two years. It just means if Wade decides to leave, we need to make sure we are $15 mill under the cap to replace him, which again we would be even if we maxed out someone in 2009. We'd have Beasley+2009max guy + a few scrubs, leaving plenty of space to replace Wade if he left.

I dunno, I guess we'll see how things play out. If Riley had no interest in a 2009 free agent, this thread wouldn't exist in the first place. The point of it was to look at other possible 2009 free agents beside Brand/Boozer, who Riley is rumored to be very interested in. If he had no interest in anyone until 2010, Brand and Bozer wouldn't even be in the equation to begin with.

THE FUTURE IS NOW

@millco
You are getting greedy ooh!! Leave Baron Davis for the Mavs you can have Kidd but seriously you are suffering from Long throat syndrome all these combinations could be pretty mind boggling

Giving the Lakers Marion would really boost them! Odom and Farmar combined cannot give you Marion's production

@Je-soul
I almost cant wait for the league to start again that is when D'Antoni would realise his mistake he would need more than Tylenol probably seom Prozac

You wouldnt make a bad GM lol.I cant wait to see where Lebron will go i am sick of seeing that talented dude on a whack team

The jury is out on Carter to me he has always been an over rated NBA star no grit all he's got is a dunk and a few jump shots

millco88:

From the minute the Heat traded Shaq, Pat Riley and many of our fans started obsessing about how to land our next 20/10 post presence to complement Wade and make us champs again. Most experts and fans are of the opinion that the heat now have that 20/10 PF in the form of Michael Beasley -- and we have to assume Riley & Co believe so as well or else they wouldn't have taken him.

Now that Wade/Beasley are in place and should be fixtures for years to come, our focus MUST shift from the Boozer/Brand obsession of the past few months to giving Wade/Beasley exactly what they need to become champions. So what do we do? Who is this magical, signable player in 2009 who can come in and have such an impact . . .and who doesn't already play SG or PF where we are all set?

What we've all been missing (Riley too) is that probably a third (or even half) of the restricted guys on the market THIS offseason will just end up signing one-year tenders, and be UNRESTRICTED in 12 months. All are young/improving and fit with Wade/Beasley better than the older Boozer and Brand would. The list:

Restricted This Year - Maybe a Third/Half of Them UNRESTRICTED Next Year
- Josh Smith , taller, younger Marion --- absolutely ideal fit offensively and defensively
- Emeka Okafor , much needed defensive presence at center and under basket
- Andre Iguodala , awesome at SF next to Wade/Beasley
- Monta Ellis , ridiculous backcourt combo with Wade, can play 12 years with Beasley
- Andris Biedrins , top young center, hard to find, leaves money for another FA too
- Luol Deng , see Iguadola
- Ben Gordon , wouldn't fit as well as other guys, but deadly shooter and solid defender
- Jose Calderon , sets up Wade and Beasley for years like no one's business
- Louis Williams , cheaper than other guys, allowing us to sign two FAs
- Josh Childress , same as Lou Williams

Add that to unrestricted's next year who would fit for shorter term
- Baron Davis
- Lamar Odom
- Ron Artest (plus someone else)
- Allen Iverson
- Corey Maggette (could be FA next yr, we'll see)
- Andre Miller (plus someone else)
- Rasheed Wallace (plus someone else)
- Jason Kidd (bleh)

Plus some restricted's next year who are probably attainable with nice offer
- Marvin Williams
- Ray Felton
- Other dudes who would also leave us with money for someone else


Possible "Big 3s" Until Wade Retires
- Wade/Josh Smith/Beasley
- Wade/Beasely/Okafor
- Wade/Iguadola/Beasley
- Wade/Deng/Beasley

Possible "Big 3's" for Shortterm Title Runs
- Iverson/Wade/Beasley
- B Davis/Wade/Beasley
- Wade/Odom/Beasley
- Wade/Maron/Beasley , duh
- or a psychotic Big 4 of Wade/Artest/Beasley/RWallace

By rule, whatever restricted guys don't sign multi-year deals this year will be unrestricted free agents next year.

I listed I think 10 impact guys who are in that position this year, and it wouldn't be surprising to see a couple of them not being able to come to terms with their cheap-ass teams, thus being unrestricted when we have max cap space in 12 months.

I'd like to have Bosh in 2010 too. But if I'm sitting there in 2009 with max cap space and someone like Josh Smith is there for the taking, then I call him at the stroke of midnight and he wants to come to Miami and take what we have to offer, why should I pass on that 100% commitment from him to wait another year for like a 10% chance at Bosh? That would be a big mistake, IMO.

That's like when we had cap space for Brand/Odom in 2003, should we have said "No, let's just wait. We'll have even more cap space next year when Kobe Bryant's a free agent, so let's wait and roll the dice on him." Of course not. If Brand or Odom says they'll sign with you RIGHT NOW, you take that 100% commitment rather than wait another year for a 10% chance at Kobe. That's exacty what Riley did in 2003 fortunately, and will do again if presented the same decision in 2009.

As far as Riley saying "we need to protect our backside for 2010" , it's pretty obvious to me that means we're not going to take any more Banks-like contracts that will tie up the cap that summer JUST IN CASE WADE LEAVES and we need to use his resulting space to rebuild. In other words, don't take on any bad contracts and *assume* you'll just go over the cap to re-sign Wade in 2010 , You need to protect your backside in case he leaves, and if he does you need to have that $15 mill available to get someone else. Which you would have regardless of whether you got a big FA in 2009.

The phrase "protecting your backside in 2010" doesn't mean we're going to sit out free agency for the next two years. It just means if Wade decides to leave, we need to make sure we are $15 mill under the cap to replace him, which again we would be even if we maxed out someone in 2009. We'd have Beasley+2009max guy + a few scrubs, leaving plenty of space to replace Wade if he left.

I don't know, I guess we'll see how things play out. If Riley had no interest in a 2009 free agent, this thread wouldn't exist in the first place. The point of it was to look at other possible 2009 free agents beside Brand/Boozer, who Riley is rumored to be very interested in. If he had no interest in anyone until 2010, Brand and Bozer wouldn't even be in the equation to begin with.

THE FUTURE IS NOW

which kin long 'tori be this now? Do you work for the heat with this kind of prediction/analysis you've noveled here? I only have so much time in one day you know

Anyways if what you were trying to say is that the addition of a good free agent will lead to a dynasty in Miami, then you can say that for pretty much 1/3rd of the teams in the NBA. I don't think Wade will last too long, he's just not a durable player.

A-40:

@Je-soul
I almost can't wait for the league to start again that is when D'Antoni would realise his mistake he would need more than Tylenol probably seom Prozac

LOL I guess he's more intrested in the dollars than his health

You wouldnt make a bad GM lol.

I know oh! thank you jare. Now all that's left is for us to convince one of the NBA teams of this fact . . .

I can't wait to see where Lebron will go i am sick of seeing that talented dude on a whack team

Lol, don't let SeanT hear you oh!

The jury is out on Carter to me he has always been an over rated NBA star no grit all he's got is a dunk and a few jump shots

overhyped and underacheived is what he is to me. Plus add to his list of shortcomings: he's a mama's boy too . . . I cannot stand mama's boys

JeSoul:

which kin long 'tori be this now? Do you work for the heat with this kind of prediction/analysis you've noveled here? I only have so much time in one day you know

Anyways if what you were trying to say is that the addition of a good free agent will lead to a dynasty in Miami, then you can say that for pretty much 1/3rd of the teams in the NBA. I don't think Wade will last too long, he's just not a durable player.

Not quite. A Wade-Marion-Beasley tandem is quite formidable. Only few teams in league possess a trio of that caliber. But again, this is all pending a 100% Wade. He may have to refine his game a lil bit.

But, overall I think the Heat need to stay patient. If they don't feel any of those players from my list will make this team a championship level team, don't go out and spend the money on them. The main goal, or at least in Rileys mind is the 2010 FA class. If they can add a Bosh or somebody of his caliber, then I'd do that in a second over Iggy/Josh Smith, etc. . . Now that's a potential dynasty. And Riley looks like he might be exercising that.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53282/20080630/miami_unlikely_to_ink_long_term_free_agent_deals/

Seems like its a forgone conclusion that Pat Riley will wait till 2010. Pat Riley is putting the cards on the table, take 2 year deal or move on. All the talk about free agents and trades, think about it again, unless its expring in 2010 or before it has 99.9 chance of not happening.

But can the Heat sign somebody next off season to a near maximum salary without sacrificing the cap space in the 2010 off season that could bring the Heat another maximum salary player?

I think Luol Deng is a perfect fit between Wade and Beasley. This dude is an assassin from the mid range right now, so he's got all the tools to become a spot up threat from three point land eventually.

And if the Heat are able to save some room in the 2010 off season, they could go for a superstar. So hopefully he does the same thing as this year's restricted free agents, and goes ahead and signs the one year tender to become a free agent in two years. Any team with Wade, Beasley (even if he's 80% of what the experts think) and either:

LeBron
Amare
Bosh

will compete for a title every year for awhile, I think Riley knows that and is willing to roll the dice!

And you know what I LIKE IT. . .

@Jesoul
I can only help but wonder cos all these combinations will confuse even Pat Riley.On the GM thingy lets start with the Knicks or the Grizzlies lol.At least you would teach them a thing or two on how not to give up their franchise player for Kwame Brown!!

Lebron will have to go sometime!

SeanT1 is in D.C shouldnt she be down with Arenas and Co.

D'Antoni well with all those dollar bills he should be able to get a good doctor




@millco
Lebron,Amare,Bosh? you want Cleveland,Phoenix and Toronto to give you their franchise players you must be on some first class Uhh-Weee

A-40:

@Jesoul
I can only help but wonder because all these combinations will confuse even Pat Riley.On the GM thingy lets start with the Knicks or the Grizzlies lol.At least you would teach them a thing or two on how not to give up their franchise player for Kwame Brown!!

Lebron will have to go sometime!

SeanT1 is in D.C shouldnt she be down with Arenas and Co.

D'Antoni well with all those dollar bills he should be able to get a good doctor




@millco
Lebron,Amare,Bosh? you want Cleveland,Phoenix and Toronto to give you their franchise players you must be on some first class Uhh-Weee

Those guys are free agents by 2010 They will be expected the top dollar from the highest bidder. Miami has the second richest owner (by far) in the league.

And who told you Paul Allen will fold his arms and watch you guys buy the best players?

millco88:

Not quite. A Wade-Marion-Beasley tandem is quite formidable. [/b]Only few teams in league possess a trio of that caliber. But again, this is all pending a 100% Wade. He may have to refine his game a little bit.

the same Bease that is yet to play 1 second in the nba? Let us see him play first, then we can confidently say he's a team-changer.
Remember how over-hyped, espn-documentary specialed, drafted-by-MJ Kwame brown was? n he was supposed to be the great center the league had seen in years?
Until these rookies play and prove themselves, I don't buy into them at all.

But, overall I think the Heat need to stay patient. If they don't feel any of those players from my list will make this team a championship level team, don't go out and spend the money on them. [b]The main goal, or at least in Rileys mind is the 2010 FA class.

lol, if he sticks around long enough that is .

Miami probably has less of a chance as NJ n Clev to scoop up Lebron. Getting Bosh is not too far-fetched a dream BUT I don't think Toronto will be stupid enuff to allow him to relocate without a money fight.

A-40:

And who told you Paul Allen will fold his arms and watch you guys buy the best players?

abi o! that's the thing. Many other (better) teams will be vying for these guys as well, it is a long way from being a slamdunk.