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The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach - Religion (3) - Nairaland

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Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Mintayo(m): 3:50am On Oct 02, 2013
whiteroses: Gosh I how wish i know and can quote the Bible like this?! From christian home but i feel lost
we were all lost at a time in our life until we decided not to STAY lost,so don't feel lost, take up the Bible, ask the Holy Spirit to quide you and you are good to go.
open your heart to the Word... the Word is refreshing and giveth life. and hope...
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by shdemidemi(m): 4:09am On Oct 02, 2013
Tgirl4real:

Who do we have here? grin

And how did I miss this post?

Where have you been?D

I am well and good sister.
Tgirl4real:

You and Goshen are fond of asking funny questions. D

I believe questions are vey important when we discuss the word of God. The onus is on you to answer the questions adequately to prove you actually understand whatever information you are divulging. Jesus Christ was constantly asked questions, he never condemned questions. He was more than equipped to answer them. Apostle Paul constantly answered questions in his epistles and he urge Timothy to study as to show himself worthy as a teacher of the gospel. Likewise my sis, I believe you should welcome questions especially when you open a thread of this nature.
Tgirl4real:
You come with the attitude of a teacher all the time and never willing to learn.
I would have to fix myself in that regard if that is the way I am. I am a student of the word, I apologise if I come out as being obtrusive.
Tgirl4real:
The simple question is "how do we know you are saved without showing fruits of righteousness?

I stand by Romans 8 that starts by saying 'there is therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus' and ends with 'nothing can seperate us from the love of Christ'. I had no part to play to become an enemy of God, similarly, I have no part to play (no work) to become a friend of God according to scriptures.
Tgirl4real:
And don't get me wrong...I'm not talking about you in particular.

Missed you BTW. : D
No p sis... Who am I that you can't talk to?

I love this section, I pray I don't get addicted to it though. I missed you and everyone I agree and disagree with on the forum and by extension everyone I read from. Thanks for having me back sis.
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by shdemidemi(m): 4:44am On Oct 02, 2013
kilode95: Can we continue in SIN and expect grace to abound ? God Forbid!
Many grace preachers forget this cogent verse of the bible pertaining to Grace.

You are right, many forget that verse and most preachers generally do not seem to understand the verse. If we take our time to read carefully, we would realise it was not just Paul speaking in this book of Romans. The audience were asking questions as well, apostle Paul sometimes rephrase his answers when the same question is been asked over and over. One question he had to answer with almost two chapters was this issue of sin.

The question was, 'shall we continue in sin'

Answer 'never, how can you when you are dead to sin'

He went on in this same chapter to explain what being death to sin means.

Does it mean I won't lie as a Christian? No

Does that mean I should then go on to lie? No

Death to sin means the head of the serpent was crushed on the cross. It also means the principle that states that the 'wages of sin is death' is been circumvented by the death burial and resurrection of Christ. In other words, the death that is suppose to be accounted to me was put on another.

To drive home the point... A murderer's case is presented before a court of law. just as the judge was to pass the right punishment to this stone hearted murderer, a man walks in to say kill me and let this villain go.

Christ died for us while we were enemies of God, he won't forsake us now that we have been adopted and called sons. If I were to be that murderer that was justified (freed just as if I never sinned), I would rather be humble in my heart than play the rebel to the one who saved me.

kilode95:
Grace does not give one the license to continue to Sin.
The way I understand it, Grace is available just for a repentant sinner. God sees the heart and can tell who is truely repentant.
You are so on point...grace is never a license.

If anyone think being saved by grace gives them the right to live like an enemy of God, they can as well continue. One thing is certain about God. if he needs you, He will get you. If you don't listen by the simple word of God, He will scream in your ears and comprehend you in disaster. Every man will listen to God when confronted with troubles that are beyond his powers and wisdom.
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Lekmusic: 5:09am On Oct 02, 2013
Let's assume that we have a man who was caught selling sensitive information to a foreign government. He was legally tried and convicted of treason against the country. Even though the man realized he had made a terrible mistake and was sorry for what he had done, the severity of the crime required a death sentence be given to him based on the laws of the land. This prisoner is on death row awaiting execution. But in a spirit of forgiveness and grace (unmerited favor), the President grants the man a full and unconditional pardon and has him released from prison.
Does this pardon received by the prisoner now nullify the legal code of the country? Would the man be able to break any and all laws with impunity after his release? Would he be able to quit paying income tax, traffic in illegal drugs, distribute child pornography, or even murder another citizen, without having to worry about the consequences of his actions?
Just using human reasoning, it's easy to see that the pardoned man would NOT be free to break the laws of the country after his pardon. In fact, it's reasonable to expect that the man would be so thankful for his undeserved reprieve from death that he would become a model, law-abiding citizen. How do you think the man would react to someone who advocated that he actively set out to disobey any other law? I imagine that he would reject such advice, and have nothing to do with the one giving it.
Through His grace, God has provided a way for us to be pardoned from the death sentence we've earned by breaking His Law. Why, then, would someone assume that this pardon (grace) negates the Law of God? Why would someone repay the unmerited favor shown to them by God with a rebellious disregard for His commandments? Why would someone think that an eternal, unchanging God would contradict Himself by requiring believers to disobey His own Law in order to maintain His divine favor?

Culled from a source online

5 Likes

Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Goshen360(m): 5:12am On Oct 02, 2013
Tgirl4real:

Very well sir.

You are free to post it.


@ Drummaboy,

If we are preoccupied with pleasing God, we shouldn't be bothered about those preaching tithe. Don't you think so? After all, we should leave God to judge the works. tongue

If you know the danger of believing a false gospel, you wouldn't say that.

The ONLY false gospel is the one OTHER THAN THE ONE AND ONLY GOSPEL OF GRACE. The gospel of Grace is what was handed down to the church, you and I. That is, the gospel of preaching and teaching CHRIST and his finished works the more. The more Christ and his fullness is taught, through the gospel of Grace (of Christ), the more sin vanishes. You insult the blood of Christ if you infer the gospel of Grace as poison.

Why do we have many churches and still, ashawo plenty, armed robbers are uncountable, corruption even in the body of Christ and all manners of sins abound? Is it because people are not hearing the word of God? No! But the word of God people are hearing from the pulpit today are GRACE + LAW. One one hand, they preach we're under Grace and on the other hand, to live by works of the law, thereby FALLING from Grace, that saved in the first place.

Preachers strengthens and REVIVE sin through their messages instead of revealing the Grace of God in Christ that cures sin. The SIN REVIVAL messages of the Law of Moses is the cause of pollution in the body of Christ NOT the Gospel of Grace. When every Christian understand (and not abuse), there will be empowerment through Grace (Christ being exalted) to live a Godly and righteous life.

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. Romans 7:9

The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 1 Cor 15:56

The above ^ scriptures revealed the reason why there's revival of sin that we see today, not the preaching of gospel of Grace. In fact, when you truly understand Grace (fullness of Christ), it is Christ and his fullness in you, teaching you to live Godly for God.

For the grace of God (Christ) that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Titus 2:11-12

^ Christ (Grace) is the CURE for sin!!! Teach Christ (Grace) the more, sin fades away. When you see people sinning, it is because they have the strength of sin or have empowered themselves to sin through the Mosaic teachings.

4 Likes

Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by vitiyke(m): 5:18am On Oct 02, 2013
in all, wht we need is his grace
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Goshen360(m): 5:22am On Oct 02, 2013
Tgirl4real:

@ Goshen,

Continue what exactly? I'm not ignorant of what you posted, neither did I say I don't know what scriptures say about Grace n salvation.

I will only leave you with this scripture:

Ephesians 2:8-10King James Version (KJV)

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9Not of works, lest any man shouldboast.10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

It's a complete package. U are saved so that you will do the works of your father just like your master Jesus Christ.


I agree with you on this one that something changes in the life of a Christian when he\she comes to the Lord. Such Christian is now carrying a new life of Christ and should live it out to people around him\her but the question is, will he or she never sin till death? If he\she will sin, should he\she continue to commit same sin over and over again?
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by doofanc: 5:26am On Oct 02, 2013
shdemidemi:


I stand by Romans 8 that starts by saying 'there is therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus' and ends with 'nothing can seperate us from the love of Christ'. I had no part to play to become an enemy of God, similarly, I have no part to play (no work) to become a friend of God according to scriptures.



Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by shdemidemi(m): 5:34am On Oct 02, 2013
Lekmusic: .
Does this pardon received by the prisoner now nullify the legal code of the country?

Fantastic question. In our secular setting the accused can be be put to death if he transgress against the law even after he was justified for his previous offence. But with God the bible says He died for sin once and for all which means the root of sin. That is the good news, that is the gospel of Christ.


Romans6:10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

Many people come up with Christ paid with his blood but we never ask who he paid?

He actually paid our pervious master, 'satan' with His blood. As Long as we believe the price has been paid by our new master, we can't be espoused by the old.



Lekmusic:
Why would someone repay the unmerited favor shown to them by God with a rebellious disregard for His commandments? Why would someone think that an eternal, unchanging God would contradict Himself by requiring believers to disobey His own Law in order to maintain His divine favor?
Another lovely question bro...

God still hate sin, He is still against all He stood against in the letters of the law even until this present time. But, we must understand God did not enter any covenant with Christians today like he did with Israel. He has adopted the church by love and grace and not by law. Where there is a law, there would be sin but you are not under a law therefore there is no condemnation.
Romans 8
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Goshen360(m): 5:34am On Oct 02, 2013
Tgirl4real:

1. You and Goshen are fond of asking funny questions. You come with the attitude of a teacher all the time and never willing to learn.

2. The simple question is "how do we know you are saved without showing fruits of righteousness?


1. You must ask questions to learn and query what you learning. In fact, to understand the bible, you must question and reason with the Holy Spirit. That's how you\we learn. I question every verse of scripture and its application to understand what it means and\or says. You shouldn't be afraid of being questioned in what you teach or say, that's how we know you understand what you saying and that you well grounded in the word. Peter said, you should be ready to explain reason for why you believe or for your faith.

2. On this question, we're on same page but, since you're saved; have you sinned? Will you sin in future? This is different from showing fruit of repentance, yes, you will live out Christ and people will see the new life of Christ and the light of Christ in\through you but does that mean you can't sin anymore?
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by shdemidemi(m): 5:39am On Oct 02, 2013
Goshen360:

Welcome my dear brother. I was just thinking of calling you on Thursday or Friday. As you know my job schedule, it's still the same. Anyway, I will still call you anyway.

Thanks bro... I dey wait for the call o
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Goshen360(m): 5:44am On Oct 02, 2013
^ Okay bro. I'm off to sleep now, just for 4 hours. It's sleep o clock. Enjoy the thread. cool
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Alwaystrue(f): 6:08am On Oct 02, 2013
To learn the truth, please read:

Alwaystrue:
Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets WERE UNTIL John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and EVERY MAN presseth into it.

Hebrews 9:16-17
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

The Old Convenant took effect on the Israelites ONLY AFTER the sacrifice of blood. But before the convenant took effect God had to give His laws, statutes and judgements (ordinances) FIRST. The blood of the bulls and sheep simply SEALED the bond.

But because the people could not fulfil their part and infact did so much evil, God has to send His Son Jesus Christ to avert the imminent curse on the earth.
Malachi 4:5-6
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

And the word of God in Malachi was fulfilled below when Jesus was speaking of John the Baptist, who had come to prepare the way.
Matthew 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

And Jesus finally came, born of a woman, under the law (Galatians 4:4) to redeem those under the law as seen by some of the deliverances from devils miracles He did.
So THE WORD OF GOD BECAME FLESH.
John 1:14,17
And the WORD WAS MADE FLESH, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished IN HIS FLESH the ENMITY, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances ; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, AND took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross

It was while Jesus was IN THE FLESH that He abolished the law of commandments CONTAINED in ordinances (Exodus chapter 21-24)that was causing enmity between Jews and Gentiles....Read the story of the Samaritan woman for example in John 4, and the commission to take the gospel to the end of the earth (totally different from just Israel alone). Also read Matthew 5 and see where He was abolishing the judgements for going against those ordinances. e.g. Eye for eye etc. It was at His death that he TOTALLY TOOK IT OUT OF THE WAY by nailing it to the cross being a sacrifice for sins. The 10 commandments were not the ordinances. Jesus was even very angry when the traditions of men were put over the law of God. Tithe and offerings were already before the law and are not the ordinances often misconstrues in Malachi 3:7 as that scripture is not talking about Malachi 3:8....verse 7 was already answered in verse 7.

That is why scriptures says: Jesus is the end of the law FOR righteousness to them that believe (Romans 10:4) because the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us when we walk in the Spirit (Romans 8:3-4) and you believe in Christ by believing His words (John 5:24) as well as the finished work on the cross. (John 19:30)

Why? Because all Jesus did and said while He was IN THE Flesh was THE TESTAMENT (THE TRUTH AND GRACE) which was only SEALED at His death by BLOOD. Hence the NEW CONVENANT!

Matthew 26:28 for this is my blood, which confirms the covenant between God and his people. It is poured out as a sacrifice to forgive the sins of many


To read more on this and also the SIGNIFICANCE of the transfiguration, continue in https://www.nairaland.com/1455684/what-seem-difference-between-old#18398498
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by soledadd: 6:24am On Oct 02, 2013
The grace that God has given us is in his son Jesus Christ. John 3:16 says " for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotton son, that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life" When we believe in Jesus Christ as our saviour, we strive to abide by his teachings. He gave us the grace of forgiveness from our sins when we trully repent of them. Isaiah 43:25 says "i, am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and i will not remember your sins". What more do we need, if not this grace. Does it then mean that we will be living an unworthy life and claim that his grace has saved us? No, 1peter 4:2 says "from now on, then you must live the rest of your earthly lives controlled by God's will and not by human desires". Let us invite the Holy spirit in our lives to direct and reveal the truth to us. The gospel is being distorted in a way to suit human desires, let us be alert and stand our ground. We are already in the last days.
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by sugaarbear(m): 6:25am On Oct 02, 2013
Grace and obeying God's words goes together......we all need grace
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Nobody: 6:30am On Oct 02, 2013
Christians don't know why they should believe that the Bible is God's word. They have been socially and psychologically engineered to assume that it's a given fact that it is. They've been unconsciously taught that it's a simple fact just like the sky is blue and the grass is green. That's why in their normal line of thinking they would never question why they should believe that the Bible is God's word.

You may wonder why Christians never questioned the inspiration of the Bible upon first being introduced to it. Well I think that one of the main reasons they don't question the Bible's divine inspiration upon their initial conversion into Christianity is due to the incredible promise of eternal life that they are promised upon conversion. They are so overjoyed and amazed at the offer of eternal life in heaven, offered to them for free just for believing, that their left brain never stops to analyze what they've been preached. Another reason is that preachers and evangelists often use sentiment, emotion and touching stories to convert people, rather than reason. Or if they were raised by Christian families, then of course as a child they wouldn't initially question their religious theology, since children generally assume that what their parents tell them is true.

In the New Testament the book of John begins with words like, "in the beginning was the word... and the word was God". So when Christians say the Bible is the word of God they must be confusing God with the Bible since the Bible itself says God is the word. In other words, they don't even know what their own bible says!

If God wrote the Bible why did he need people to write it for him? Couldn't God just have materialised the book somewhere? And if God did write the Bible why are there so many contradictions and lack of evidence in it?

Are Christians going to admit that the Bible was written down by men? They should, because they claim God spoke through those men. So can't they admit that being inspired by God and writing things, and God speaking directly are actually two different things? The long list of biblical contradictions should prove so. And then what about the Quran - does God's message have to be constantly revised for future generations with obvious agendas, deeply contradicting what God says originally?

Next time you meet a fundy Christian, ask them, "so if the bible is the word of God are you saying that the bible is the God of God or that the bible is the Word of Word?"

Another one i like is the "Jesus died for your sins". This, of course, must apply to people that lived before Jesus was born and all the other religious people in the world who aren't Christians, atheists, agnostics, and gays and so on. But this is another topic...
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by alexleo(m): 6:33am On Oct 02, 2013
ayoku777:



Its not immediately your spirit is regenated in the new birth that your soul becomes reformed, thats why your appetites and addictions dont miraculously vanish after you become born again, but even before your soul gets reformed, your spirit stays regenerated, righteous and holy ghost-indwelt. A christian can never be unrighteous, he can only be imperfect. No sin can unregenerate the regenerated spirit of the new creation. Don't confuse the regeneration of the human spirit through the finished work of Christ, with the reformation of the human soul by the holy spirit. The two are different and dont happen simultaneously.

My dear my addictions vanished miraculously the day I got saved and I ve witness hundreds upon hundreds of people with the same testimony. The only thing is that you must keep close to Jesus in prayer and reading the word so as not to give room for those things to come back. Once any of them comes back and you sin, it means you have fallen and the next thing to do is to repent. You don't just ignore going back to repentance and say you are under grace therefore it doesn't matter. It matters before God until you plead the blood of Jesus for a cleansing.

Revelations 2:5 says-

5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by novicali: 6:33am On Oct 02, 2013
Once saved is saved is the vile gospel that has invaded the pulpit that should be avoided. One is saved to do the things Christ did.
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by dallyemmy: 6:35am On Oct 02, 2013
2Tim 3:1-10.  . BUT UNDERSTAND this, that in the last days will come (set in) perilous times of great stress and trouble [hard to deal with and hard to bear]. 2  For people will be lovers of self and [utterly] self-centered, lovers of money and aroused by an inordinate [greedy] desire for wealth, proud and arrogant and contemptuous boasters. They will be abusive (blasphemous, scoffing), disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy and profane. 3  [They will be] without natural [human] affection (callous and inhuman), relentless (admitting of no truce or appeasement); [they will be] slanderers (false accusers, troublemakers), intemperate and loose in morals and conduct, uncontrolled and fierce, haters of good. 4  [They will be] treacherous [betrayers], rash, [and] inflated with self-conceit. [They will be] lovers of sensual pleasures and vain amusements more than and rather than lovers of God. 5  For [although] they hold a form of piety (true religion), they deny and reject and are strangers to the power of it [their conduct belies the genuineness of their profession]. Avoid [all] such people [turn away from them]. 6  For among them are those who worm their way into homes and captivate silly and weak-natured and spiritually dwarfed women, loaded down with [the burden of their] sins [and easily] swayed and led away by various evil desires and seductive impulses. 7  [These weak women will listen to anybody who will teach them]; they are forever inquiring and getting information, but are never able to arrive at a recognition and knowledge of the Truth. 8  Now just as Jannes and Jambres were hostile to and resisted Moses, so these men also are hostile to and oppose the Truth. They have depraved and distorted minds, and are reprobate and counterfeit and to be rejected as far as the faith is concerned. 9  But they will not get very far, for their rash folly will become obvious to everybody, as was that of those [magicians mentioned]. 10  Now you have closely observed and diligently followed my teaching, conduct, purpose in life, faith, patience, love, steadfastness
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by ayoku777(m): 6:48am On Oct 02, 2013
alexleo:

My dear my addictions vanished miraculously the day I got saved and I ve witness hundreds upon hundreds of people with the same testimony. The only thing is that you must keep close to Jesus in prayer and reading the word so as not to give room for those things to come back. Once any of them comes back and you sin, it means you have fallen and the next thing to do is to repent. You don't just ignore going back to repentance and say you are under grace therefore it doesn't matter. It matters before God until you plead the blood of Jesus for a cleansing.

Revelations 2:5 says-

5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.


This is the ignorance that makes me not argue with people who think they are christ-like. Do you know that the greatest proof of christ-likeness is immortality? Not morals, not i dont lie, i dont steal.

Carnality in the soul is what produces corruption in the body. So if you're saying carnality in your soul vanished at the new birth, you're only confirming the ignorance that reduces christ-likeness to morals.

Hmmm, lol
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by bebechuks: 7:02am On Oct 02, 2013
Rhymeyjohn: According to Pastor W.F Kumuyi, Grace is simlply G.od's R.iches A.t Christ's E.xpense (GRACE). Its simplt an undeserved offer by God fufilled in His Son Jesus. You dont deserve it, so accept it the way you are but after accepting this grace, it demands something from you Work out your salvation with fear and trembling Grace dosent give a believer permissive with sin. God bless. us
right word sir!
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Nobody: 7:04am On Oct 02, 2013
ayoku777: We need to begin to listen to eachother so see the big picture of the purposes of God. Both groups have a point but we often drif into extremes because we don't listen to eachother.

As I always say the dispensation of grace is not the age of God's indifference to what He hated under the law, its a change of approach to bringing us unto perfection. This is my Spirit-inspired (I believe) definition of grace: Grace is the overflow of the mercy of God that makes a man RECEIVE things above his merit and DO things beyond his power.

Grace has two sides, the side that helps us receive and the side that helps us release what we've received. The side that helps us become and the side that helps us bring forth what we've become. Its like this, I can wire a billion dollars into your bank account, that would INSTANTLY make you become a billionaire, but it won't magically become food on your table or cloth on your back or a roof on your head. You have to cash it and USE it for you to profit with it.

Grace gives us righteousness, justification and the Holy Spirit as gifts, we can't work hard enough to receive them or less enough to lose them. But we need to by that same grace, do things to profit with the gifts. You're not edified by HAVING the gift of speaking in tongues, you're edified by SPEAKING in tongues. You don't walk in power by HAVING the holy spirit, you do by fellowshiping with him and by prompt obedience to his leading. That's why Paul told Timothy to STIR up the GIFT that is in him. Even gifts need stirring.

There is the angle of grace that gives us things and an angle of grace that helps us reach for things or bring forth what we are given. If there is no grace for doing, on what criteria will some people be the greatest in the kingdom of God and some will be the least?

I've heard a believer say God loves a cheerful giver, and by that he means don't give unless there is cheerfulness in the act, and he made that his excuse for not giving many times. But there was nothing cheerful in Christ when he gave his life, he groaned till the last minute and his soul was sorrowful unto death. And that is the greatest giving ever.

Where I disagree is when people say if you sin you become unrighteous, that's untrue. You can't lose your righteousness or even the Holy Spirit but you can refuse to profit with them if you don't move beyond the grace to become unto the grace to bring forth what you've become. And that part of grace involves some sacrifice on your part, like when Jesus told Paul, my grace is sufficient for you. Grace to travail, to supplicate and fellowship with the Holy Spirit to bring forth the glory of Christ is still in the New covenant

...to be continued.
I love this gospel..carry on sir.more of this.
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by christemmbassey(m): 7:07am On Oct 02, 2013
Deschil: If you actually attend Christ embassy then you don miss road pata pata! The worst abuse of grace I have heard of... Christ Embassy members, pray that God opens your eyes before it is too late o! Heaven bears me witness that I have warned you!
wetin Christembassy do u na? I think my views on ththe n 1st fruit disqualify me from being a CE member, which church is better than CE in naija? Ce is one of d best church in naija, God is setting ppl free n there's nothing u can do bout it. Kpele!
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by shdemidemi(m): 7:07am On Oct 02, 2013
alexleo:

My dear my addictions vanished miraculously the day I got saved and I ve witness hundreds upon hundreds of people with the same testimony. The only thing is that you must keep close to Jesus in prayer and reading the word so as not to give room for those things to come back. Once any of them comes back and you sin, it means you have fallen and the next thing to do is to repent. You don't just ignore going back to repentance and say you are under grace therefore it doesn't matter. It matters before God until you plead the blood of Jesus for a cleansing.

Revelations 2:5 says-

5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

This is exactly where the problem lies, you have quoted the scriptures quite rightly but the book of revelation has nothing to do with This gospel of Grace or the present church. The book of revelation is the dispensation of works and not the Holy Spirit, the jews would have to work through perilous times to be saved.
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by shdemidemi(m): 7:10am On Oct 02, 2013
novicali: Once saved is saved is the vile gospel that has invaded the pulpit that should be avoided. One is saved to do the things Christ did.

That is what they say, what does the scripture say?
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Lovine: 7:12am On Oct 02, 2013
GRACE IS AN UNMERITED FAVOR ON CHRIST'S EXPENSE. Grace does not require your righteousness to go to heaven, but the righteousness of Christ. If we are capable of going to heaven on our own merit Jesus would have not come and died for us. We are saved by grace not of the righteous(works) deed we did. Titus 3:4,5, but ver 8 admonished those born of God (grace) must be very careful they way they live out their lives. Non of your good deed can take you to heaven but anyone born of God is indebted to live for God because they now have the character of God. But every born again must go for deliverance (separation) from darkness to light because of our foundation which without we can't live the life of God in fullness.
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Nobody: 7:14am On Oct 02, 2013
ayoku777:

You're obviously confusing righteousness with perfection. So in your book, anyone who is not perfect or still has imperfections is not righteous? Have you heard the term, 'the perfecting of the saints' - Eph 4v12. Thats coz you can be a saint (saved and justified by faith) and still have imperfections.

23 years after scripture declared Abraham righteous by faith in Gen 15v6, God told him in Gen 17v1, walk before me and be thou perfect. So a man can be righteous for 23years and still not be perfect. Or the other way round, a man can be imperfect and still be righteous and a saint.

Righteousness is a gift of grace imputed into our regenerated spirit, its not provoked by works, neither can it be revoked by works. Just as people born in the image of the first Adam did good works under the law but it still couldn't justify them, people born again in the image of the last Adam to still do bad things but it can't revoke their righteousness. Coz righteousness is from faith to faith- Rom 1v17, in other words, it is received and retained by faith.

Its not immediately your spirit is regenated in the new birth that your soul becomes reformed, thats why your appetites and addictions dont miraculously vanish after you become born again, but even before your soul gets reformed, your spirit stays regenerated, righteous and holy ghost-indwelt. A christian can never be unrighteous, he can only be imperfect. No sin can unregenerate the regenerated spirit of the new creation. Don't confuse the regeneration of the human spirit through the finished work of Christ, with the reformation of the human soul by the holy spirit. The two are different and dont happen simultaneously.
Another bomb blast..This guy you dey eat too much scriptures abeg grin grin
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by DrummaBoy(m): 7:15am On Oct 02, 2013
Tgirl4real:

Educate me please. grin

One other thing, and probably the last thing I will be saying on this thread, the grace convention offered a balanced understanding of the gospel of grace. Candour's paper on 'Grace is not Licence' shed great light on that matter: https://www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013/11#17803555

Maybe this sort of thread will not have been opened if Demi and Ayoku had presented their papers. I use this medium to call on the duo to publish their papers on that thread. And we would all do ourselves some good if we return to that convention thread to study the grace subject some more.

Suffiet to say that the gospel of grace is not proclaimed enough on our pulpits for if it was, there would be less of the doctrines of demons that pervade Christendom today.

Grace Convention thread: https://www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013/1#17754058
Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by wjxavier(m): 7:17am On Oct 02, 2013
Devil got you on a guilt trip big time Lady!

Dear OP, people like you will not forgive yourselves when you screw up -and you will...megally.

Forgive me for this but I doubt you are forgiving of others trespasses too.

I thank God that you are not God.

Remember he said, I will have mercy and not sacrifice.

Well he may be YOUR GOD, but He is my Daddy!

I am his love child.

Yet there'll always be those who get uncomfortable when the walk looks too easy. Its d grace-walk, baby! Those folks are like the elder brother of the prodigal son -lets call him Prodigus.

He does all he is expected to do, but gets mad when his father celebrates prodigal.

Heavenll be full of discovery. Seeing the things you missed just cause you were too scared to ask.

Nuff said. Miss T, repent!

Tgirl4real: I would like to share this verses of scriptures with us today. I am not after whether it was written to Jews or gentiles or which ever dispensation as some would say. lol. It is the word of God and if you are a child of God it applies to you.


Revelations 3: 4-22

"And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou were cold or hot.

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth.

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy unclothedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

I got angry reading an old thread I contributed to this morning. The thread is about grace Vs obeying God's law. What is it with the gospel of grace that is unable to save anyone that we preach all around today? Why do we take one part and leave the other part that involves we living up to what we profess?

You claim God has saved...how do we know God has saved you if we don't see fruits of righteousness at work in you?

Reading scriptures this morning, I see a lot of contradictions between scriptures and what we preach out there. Many are expecting a Jesus that will rub their heads and give them bear hugs when he appears.

Hey! wake up! Judgement is at hand!

Don't let anyone deceive you. Search your heart and be true to what you believe.

James 4:17
"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

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Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by eleojo23: 7:19am On Oct 02, 2013
Grace is not a licence to sin. The grace of God has appeared to all men teachin us to deny all ungodliness... Your sense of right and wrong clouds your understandin of grace. With or without the teachin of grace people will still sin. Yeah, people have always been sinning without licence! As for me, the more of God's grace i understand, the more i want to worship and please Him. The terms of our salvation and maintenance were set out by God himself and no human perception can change that. We can easily say 'quit teachin that grace message 'cos it makes people sin. We must all strive to be holy and stop sinning' But let me ask 'how do you know that you have not sinned today?' You would answer 'because i did not lie, steal, fornicate etc' It goes to show that your definition of SIN is only limited to overt wrong behaviours. What about that secret feeling that seemed right but in God's definition constitutes a sin? What about your repeated failure to believe God's word? Have you discovered that as you progress in the christian life, certain things you previously thought were right suddenly dawns on you as sins that you have to forsake? Was God mistaken when He declared that our righteousness are as filthy rags? Do you insist that you can wash the rag clean? We must all come to a point where we realise that it is the righteousness of God that sustains us. Christ became our righteousness(1 cor 1:30). The issue of sin has been dealt with at the cross. Ours is not a struggle for righteousness but a struggle to please our father. Just like in a family, a son does not strive to be a son because he already is, he only strives to please his father. If he fails to please his father, he becomes a displeasing son but there is no way he can loose the sonship. That was signed by blood. That is our relationship with God. We are already sons but do we want to please the father or not? God's reason for giving us time after our repentance is to carry out His work on earth else He would simply have killed us the very instant we repented. But He wishes to accomplish somethin with us down here. Now as the Lord's workers, it is important that we be pleasin in His sight so as to be good representatives of His on earth. That is the place of our personal conduct. But like I said earlier, our understanding of what constitutes a sin before God is limited so we cannot do without running back under His wings of grace.

2 Likes

Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Nobody: 7:20am On Oct 02, 2013
ayoku777:

And what is your definition of a carnal christian or a babe in christ, if sinning means you were never in Christ. Sinning means your soul isn't fully reformed as your spirit has been regeneration. Stop mixing up the different stages of transformation in the life of a believer.

If you understand the 7 feasts of the Lord, you will know this - from passover, to unleavened, firstfruit, pentecost, trumpet, atonement and tabernacle. They represent remission, regeneration, restoration, baptism, revelation, reformation and perfection.

It takes most of us years, even decades to move from passover to parts of trumpet and atonement. Infact i don't think i've seen any believer who has stepped into the glory feast - tabernacle. But the church will get there before the gentile church age climaxes. Many believers die inbetween the passover and the atonement. But that doesn't mean they're not christians or will go to hell. You're born again and in Christ right from the passover stage of your walk with God

An imperfect christian is not an unrighteous christian or a false believer. Are you an unbeliever coz you're imperfect? Or are you perfect?
And goshen is telling us to tear out the OT..see RHEMA!!!! olboy' who taught you these revelations abeg?

1 Like

Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Alwaystrue(f): 7:24am On Oct 02, 2013
John 8:30-32
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

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