The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach - Religion (7) - Nairaland
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach (24565 Views)
Be Strong In The Grace That’s In Christ Jesus / Pastor Adeboye Warns Members About Sister Linda's Message Of Hell / Bombshell:(pt2) How Paul Distorted Christianity (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (13) (Reply) (Go Down)
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by MostHigh: 1:17pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
kingk: There is no way a man living in sin can be said to be rightouse. Thats just plain silly talk. 1 Like |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by MostHigh: 1:19pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
shdemidemi: And yet after presenting that so called gospel of IMPUTING RIGHTOUSNESS APART FROM THE LAW. Apostle paul still obeyed the LAWS of the most high God. Mr shdemidemi why is your case different? 1 Like |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by MostHigh: 1:23pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
shdemidemi: |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Alwaystrue(f): 1:23pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
@kingk, I think you have answered your question already....BELIEVES....that is the heart of the matter. Anyone who believes in Jesus has righteousness imputed in Him.....And BELIEVING Jesus means Believing all He says just like Abraham believed all God said too based on what God told Him. That is where the righteousness is. Believing is NOT an EVENT, it is a WAY OF LIFE. And when you believe what Jesus says, you will with fear and trembling work it out. Will it not be strange to believe something yet go against the belief? John 11:26 Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die. Do you believe this, Martha? John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed John 15:10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love It is continuous and this is the working out our salvation we keep talking about. If you do not exercise what you believe, you lose it or it dies. |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by kingk(m): 1:25pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
MostHigh: Hmmm ok Bro, a sinner can not be righteous all through yes I believe that, but at ONE POINT in his life, he can be righteous. A study case I have here is king Solomon was he righteous? |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by shdemidemi(m): 1:32pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
MostHigh: What Paul did or did not do is not a standard for us. I have read your arguments about how Paul took part in the the Jewish order. Of course you have a point but the man made it clear that he did all he did to win some even among his brethren and his countrymen according to the flesh. The word of God remains the only sure word of prophecy. The word says our righteousness as Christians is not measured by the deeds of the law but through Christ. |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Tgirl4real(f): 1:43pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
MostHigh: Hallelujah! 1 Like |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Reference(m): 1:45pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
shdemidemi: You're totally right. Christianity is not a practice nor a religion, it is a relationship, a fellowship where God wants you around the sofa not the conference table and certainly not across the dock. Relax, you can never wow God. He has seen it all and knows your end from the beginning. Just abide. He loves us, rejoices in our faith, is upset by our failures, hates sin intensely and wants us to have no part of it. Now if the knowledge of the Law is the document of our condemnation and God wants us to survive, He had to bail us out. The process of doing so on a constant basis is grace. 2 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by ayoku777(m): 2:03pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
savcy: I just couldn't help but laugh while reading through this thread. Its been quite engaging and I must say that I have learnt alot. Kudos guys. Your 2nd and 3rd paragraph says it all. Honestly, I've come to now know that without a strong prayer and fasting life, it will be very difficult to chastise your soul to the point of non-interferance in scriptural interpretation. There's a lot of sentiments and emotionalism in what we usually call 'revelation'. Its all about what sounds rational to us. That was the reason why when God told Peter to kill and eat the unclean animals, he refused and even argued with God, coz his soul had been brought up to loathe those things. He couldn't bring himself to understanding how they are now clean and how he can eat it, even though the instruction came directly from God. Soul interferance is that powerful in scriptural interpretation That's why I'm very weary of the views of people who dont have a strong prayer life. Without the tool of prayer and fasting and also meditation, you will be using a lot of sense work to interprete scripture. Jesus told Peter, flesh and blood hath not revealed this to you, because the flesh too can give its own 'revelation' about 'Who Christ is'. 1 Like |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Infomaz(m): 2:06pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
Goshen360: @ Tgirl,The distorted teaching of Grace is d one that makes it a license to continue in sin. Grace that makes void d law of God is not grace but Disgrace. A friend once said 'd more he sins, d more grace he has' . True grace means unmerited forgiveness 4 our sins when we repent, bcus of d atoning death of Jesus for us. True Grace means 'The POWER of God unto SALVATION' - Salvation from SIN. '... And his name shall b call JESUS for He shall SAVE His people FROM SIN' - Matt 1:21. True Grace is the POWER of d Holy Spirit in us not to sin. That's not to disobey d law (sin is d transgression of d law.- 1 John 3:4) True Grace is empowerment by d Holy Spirit to live righteously ( That d righteous requirements of d law might b fulfill in US, who walk not after d flesh, but after d SPIRIT - Rm 8:4) . Anyone that uses grace as a cover to continue living in sin is not under grace but DISGRACE. 1 Like |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Nobody: 2:11pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
MostHigh: Lmao...but you dey kee pesin for hai sha NM MOSTHIGH Winnipeg dey cold oh!, 7 degrees Peace be unto you my brother |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by kingk(m): 2:12pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
Infomaz: The distorted teaching of Grace is d one that makes it a license to continue in sin. Grace that makes void d law of God is not grace but Disgrace. A friend once said 'd more he sins, d more grace he has' . True grace means unmerited forgiveness 4 our sins when we repent, bcus of d atoning death of Jesus for us. True Grace means 'The POWER of God unto SALVATION' - Salvation from SIN. '... And his name shall b call JESUS for He shall SAVE His people FROM SIN' - Matt 1:21. True Grace is the POWER of d Holy Spirit in us not to sin. That's not to disobey d law (sin is d transgression of d law.- 1 John 3:4) True Grace is empowerment by d Holy Spirit to live righteously ( That d righteous requirements of d law might b fulfill in US, who walk not after d flesh, but after d SPIRIT - Rm 8:4) . Anyone that uses grace as a cover to continue living in sin is not under grace but DISGRACE. Nice saying Bro. |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by shdemidemi(m): 2:19pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
Infomaz: The distorted teaching of Grace is d one that makes it a license to continue in sin. Grace that makes void d law of God is not grace but Disgrace. A friend once said 'd more he sins, d more grace he has' . True grace means unmerited forgiveness 4 our sins when we repent, bcus of d atoning death of Jesus for us. True Grace means 'The POWER of God unto SALVATION' - Salvation from SIN. '... And his name shall b call JESUS for He shall SAVE His people FROM SIN' - Matt 1:21. True Grace is the POWER of d Holy Spirit in us not to sin. That's not to disobey d law (sin is d transgression of d law.- 1 John 3:4) True Grace is empowerment by d Holy Spirit to live righteously ( That d righteous requirements of d law might b fulfill in US, who walk not after d flesh, but after d SPIRIT - Rm 8:4) . Anyone that uses grace as a cover to continue living in sin is not under grace but DISGRACE. Hmmm bro, are you under the law as a Christian? If no how could you transgress the law! If yes, please show us where God gave us(Christians) the commandments. |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by debosky(m): 2:20pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
It's one thing to say a message is distorted, it's yet another to say it doesn't exist at all. That is where I had an issue with Tgirl's initial stance (which she later qualified/explained better). We all need to understand what grace truly means - beyond it being a means of securing forgiveness of previous (and future) sins - and grasp the power, yes the power of grace to utterly transform us from what we were into what God wants us to be. All the walking in righteousness, doing what Jesus commands, working out our salvation, etc. can only be accomplished by the power of grace. If not, we'd already be doing it by our own power. It is not an overnight process, neither does it happen like a straight line - there will be false starts, learning and re-learning of lessons on the way. But if we persevere, we will receive what is promised. 2 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Nuzo1(m): 2:26pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
haibe: Is there such thing as UNwillful sinning? Is such exempted from punishment? |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by kingk(m): 2:26pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
shdemidemi: Please what do you really understand by being under the law?...........jesus also obeyed the law, he also gave us his laws, then tell me if you don't do the laws of christ because of grace, how then will you boast of righteousness......and if you keep christ laws, will say then that you're under the law? |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Tgirl4real(f): 2:32pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
debosky: It's one thing to say a message is distorted, it's yet another to say it doesn't exist at all. Deboskyyyy!!!!  Glad to see you here. I was wondering if you would not grace this thread.  Ermm...my brother, I get your point and we all needed it at one point or the other and it still sustains us (by the word of God in us), but all these "make me fell good messages" is not what we need now. This is the end-time bro. Ephesians 6: 10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,[c] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore... It's call to duty my brother. Who doesn't want to hear the good news of grace that saved us and sleep there  ..., but we need to move from there and live the life we have been called to.Matthew 5:16 New King James Version (NKJV) 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by shdemidemi(m): 2:35pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
kingk: I believe the law of Mose was given to the children of Israel thus they are under that law. Jesus happens to be a Jew, He was also under the law. I also believe it when the scripture says in Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. God's Righteousness Through Faith 21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; Now could you help explain Christ laws you are talking about. |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Nobody: 2:39pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
@shdemidemi,welcome bro..i really miss our scriptural argument and banters I hope you've tanked up so we can all be blessed. One thing i agree is that Grace is a free gift according to scriptures. But one point your crew is missing is that if someone gives you a gift that frees you there is much more moral obligation to retain that gift than when He comes with rules that says this is the reason for the gift.Don't you see? Grace was never meant for us to disgrace God.A perfect example is Job who God boasted about to satan. 2 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Tgirl4real(f): 2:41pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
That is my message in a nut shell. And to add to that... James 2:14-26 (New King James Version) 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. ”And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 1 Like |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Alwaystrue(f): 2:44pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law This is the conclusion of the Romans 3 quoted above. When we say law, we mean spirit of the law....righteousness of the law (Romans 8:3-4). |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by MrPresident1: 2:50pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
The Old Testament is the foundation of the Holy Bible and without a good understanding of it, many messages in the New Testament will not be situated in proper light and as a consequence would be understood. This is what Peter meant when he said of the people who would try to misquote Paul, in 2nd Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. The Law has not been done away with, God forbid! One primary reason Jesus had to come was to come and show the way back to God (the Laws of God) because Israel had completely lost direction even her leaders. Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Jesus came to show the way back to God to Israel and also for those gentiles who would be willing to accept the Truth. Isaiah 49:6 6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. See what the LORD is pleased with, the completion of the Law (which will never be abolished), His requirement from you: Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? 3 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by asco15(m): 2:53pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
Jesus said 'that except our righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees, we shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven' mtt.5:20, it means dat we must be righteous both in heart and physically and nt just physical righteous like d pharisees do. My church will always say dat A SINNER IS NOT A CHRISTIAN AND A CHRISTIAN IS NOT A SINNER. 1Jn.3:8 |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by shdemidemi(m): 2:55pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
Bidam: @shdemidemi,welcome bro..i really miss our scriptural argument and banters Lol...it feels good to be back here, thanks bro. Can we actually disgrace God? I believe God created the good, the bad and the ugly according to His Will. He created pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar and other tyrants in the scripture. The scripture says in Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. I believe all things here are not just good things but a combination of bad things as well. He hath made everything so. One thing I think we must know is that reigning with Christ and just being saved are two different things. Some will be active soldiers and some wld be dormant soldiers which means even us with the first fruit of the Spirit shall be judged and rewarded with stars. 2 Tim 2:12 12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us. 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself. |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by shdemidemi(m): 2:58pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
Alwaystrue: Romans 3:31 Please pick up other translations to understand what that verse is saying. Establishing the law does not mean we are under the law,does it? It means man have now achieved what he could not through Christ. Remember Paul said he was presenting a gospel separate from the law. |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by texanomaly(f): 2:58pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
asco15: Jesus said 'that except our righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees, we shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven' mtt.5:20, it means dat we must be righteous both in heart and physically and nt just physical righteous like d pharisees do.Aren't we all sinners? There has been only one perfect man to ever walk this earth. |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Reference(m): 2:59pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
shdemidemi: |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by kingk(m): 3:03pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
shdemidemi: John13 vs 34 A new COMMANDMENT (LAW) I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. Also. Another commandment (law) Mathew 5 vs 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Reference(m): 3:11pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
kingk: No, he did not 'obey' the law, He fulfilled the law (attaining and exceeding its requirements) by faith. Once again righteousness cannot be attained by obeying the law but by faith. Christianity is a relationship not a 'religion'. Jesus was righteous because of His relationship with God. I and the Father are... I do nothing of my own. As I hear so I... This sounds like a relationship rather than striving to accomplish what is written on a piece of paper you know you can never attain in this world. |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Reference(m): 3:12pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
kingk: And what do you mean by 'Christ's Laws'. |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Reference(m): 3:31pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
kingk: You need to know these personalities properly to function in this kingdom effectively. Jesus is the Word (made flesh. Flesh flesh 2000 years ago. The Scriptures today.) The Father is the Creator, God Almighty. He is the origin. The ONLY one WHO CAN MAKE LAWS because He cannot be subject to laws. What Jesus was doing there was stating what God gave Moses to relate, period. If I say today 'love your neighbour as yourself' does it make it my law? Jesus wasn't making new laws. Merely reminding His audience (primarily Jews) of what kind of yoke they carry. There are no new laws. |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by kingk(m): 3:33pm On Oct 02, 2013 |
Reference: Saying that we don't live under the law, but Christ also gave us laws or commandments:- John13 vs 34 A new COMMANDMENT (LAW) I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. Also. Another commandment (law) Mathew 5 vs 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; |
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (13) (Reply)
Worldliness And Worldly Amusements: The Silhouette Challenge / Tunde Bakare Summoned Over Sermon / Nigerian Bishops: "All Church Hospitals Can Be Used For COVID-19 Patients"
(Go Up)
| Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 103 |