alcuin:

Of course, I believe I'll die someday. When and where is highly probable. It depends on my actions and choices. God does know when and where I will die, neither does He need to know. It is solely dependent on my actions. I am a free agent. The only certainty here is that I'll die someday, which is the neccesary end of this road on earth.
God knows where all roads end but the exact turn I'll make in my journey of life is not necessary for Him to know.

Thanks.

Is there anything God knows for certain?Things pertaining to we humans(free agents as you said). If he knows nothing for certain, why call him God?

rationalmind:

Is there anything God knows for certain?Things pertaining to we humans(free agents as you said). If he knows nothing for certain, why call him God?

Jeez, I have said it times without number. God knows for certain what all your choices will lead you. He knows where every turn in the journey of life leads. But he doesn't know which road, you the traveller will take, he made you free agent. In any case, he knows where each road leads a traveller. That's why He can place helpers on each road to guide you to the true purpose of the journey itself. You are free to accept the help or not, that is itself taking a new road, and so on.

God knows for certain what your action will lead you but does not necessarily know what your action will be in anycase. He has given you freewill.

Thanks.

alcuin:

Interesting, I get your point. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Well, the basic assumption is false.

As much as many Christians believe that God takes personal inventory of their lives and guides them or even personally hears their prayers.

It is not true. That view of God is the bane religion. God is not anthropomorphic.

Man is directly subject to the laws of nature, what he gets is dependent on how he swings in these laws.

God does not personally intervene in any situation.

Mind you, the extent of these laws has not been fully experienced by man.

So manifestations may erroneous be called "supernatural" or miraculous.

It is simply natural laws playing out in ways not yet known by man.

Thanks

- EDITED-
@alcuin

If you haven't already done so, you'll soon tie self up in knots

You are going round in circles and unnecessarily riling up rationalmind

If God doesn't know. How come He wrote names in the Book of Life before the foundation of the earth?

"God does not personally intervene in any situation" - alcuin

On the contrary, God DOES personally intervene in any situation albeit exclusively on invite or granted request

God will bend rules and do the "supernatural", "stupendous" or "miraculous" when man's consent is given

Man; with a human body is the only being officially and legally allowed to FUNCTION and OPERATE on Earth and it's current dispensation

God always sought invitations and clearances first before overriding the status quo

"Christians believe that God takes personal inventory of their lives and guides them or even personally hears their prayers" - alcuin
- Yes, as inventory is for the latter accountability.
- Yes, but guidance and/or answered prayers given if righteous

"Man is directly subject to the laws of nature, what he gets is dependent on how he swings in these laws." - alcuin
- Yes, as the principle(s) or the laws of nature prepares one for living on Earth
- but the Person (i.e. a relationship with God; not to be confused with religion) prepares one for living in the Kingdom of Heaven

Kabieosi:

@alcuin

If you haven't already done so, you'll soon tie self up in knots

"God does not personally intervene in any situation" - alcuin

On the contrary, God DOES personally intervene in any situation albeit exclusively on invite or granted request

God will bend rules and do the "supernatural", "stupendous" or "miraculous" when man's consent is given

Man; with a human body is the only being officially and legally allowed to FUNCTION and OPERATE on Earth and it's current dispensation

God always sought invitations and clearances first before overriding the status quo

"Christians believe that God takes personal inventory of their lives and guides them or even personally hears their prayers" - alcuin
- Inventory is for the latter accountability.
- Guidance and/or answered prayers given if righteous

"Man is directly subject to the laws of nature, what he gets is dependent on how he swings in these laws." - alcuin
- The principle(s) or the laws of nature prepares one for living on Earth
- The Person (i.e. Relationship with Jesus; not to be confused with religion) prepares one for living in the Kingdom of Heaven

I am knotted in anyway. I believe in the simplicity of thought.

Your assertions are easily refuttable but I am not a hole-poking philosopher.

I believe atheists here will see that your assertions fails on the realm logic.

My view of creation is fundamentally different. God is not anthropomorphic. He is impersonal and pervasive. He doesn't have favorites.

Thanks.

alcuin:

Jeez, I have said it times without number. God knows for certain what all your choices will lead you. He knows where every turn in the journey of life leads. But he doesn't know which road, you the traveller will take, he made you free agent. In any case, he knows where each road leads a traveller. That's why He can place helpers on each road to guide you to the true purpose of the journey itself. You are free to accept the help or not, that is itself taking a new road, and so on.

God knows for certain what your action will lead you but does not necessarily know what your action will be in anycase. He has given you freewill.

Thanks.

Lol, your reply is hilarious to say the least. God knows for certain what your action will lead you. He knows everything except what course of action humans will take. The question is, What prevents him from knowing what exact action humans will take?lol, freewill? Doesn't that show you he doesn't have the power to know and do all things? I.e, He isn't omnipotent.

This is where your problem lies. You already hold freewill to be true. Hence you try to absolve God from knowing what exact course of action humans will take to justify your position on freewill.

Need I remind you that this position of yours is bereft of evidence. Its just your opinion and it has no backing.

How does it even sound to your ears that God knows the result of every course of action man might take (the most difficult to know) but doesn't know the exact one man will take( the simplest to know).

rationalmind:

I really didn't follow the arguments on the "inherent". From the example you however gave now, I agree with you. But then, hope you know a word can have more than one "inherent" meaning.

I got you, but could you give me examples?

Kabieosi:

Religion Religion Religion - Arrghhh !

Stop! Pack it in!! Cut out the misinformed notion of religion!!!

The watchword is relationship, in tune with true religion

Look at James 1:27 to know what true religion is and what it is all about?

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this:
to look after orphans and widows in their distress
and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world
^{- James 1:27 New International Version (NIV)}

Thanks for your definition of true religion. I hope that takes priority, instead of those annoying rants. What you quoted there is more said than done amongst xtians. In fact, what is done more is hypocrisy and discrimination while shoving hell talk down the throats of nonchristians. That's just by the way.

rationalmind:

When you knew you didn't get my point, why not ask me for clarification?

I'm not talking about weather God exists or not. I'm saying the general consensus amongst christians when God gives them a No answer to their prayer is that God has a better plan for them. Which means God already knows the end of the choice they were asking of, didn't answer them because he wants them to make another choice that will have a more favourable end.

This idea clearly shows depicts God as having perfect knowledge of ones choices and the end.

When faced with the logical absurdities of this definition of God, christians change tactics. They change the meaning of the word omniscience to suit them. That is what I call double standard and that exactly is my point.

Very true

alcuin:

Jeez, I have said it times without number. God knows for certain what all your choices will lead you. He knows where every turn in the journey of life leads. But he doesn't know which road, you the traveller will take, he made you free agent. In any case, he knows where each road leads a traveller. That's why He can place helpers on each road to guide you to the true purpose of the journey itself. You are free to accept the help or not, that is itself taking a new road, and so on.

God knows for certain what your action will lead you but does not necessarily know what your action will be in anycase. He has given you freewill.

Thanks.

You said this

Don't get me wrong, man promulgating meanings to words does not mean that he is incapable of conceiving truth. What it implies is no matter how far he goes he must always be limited in his understanding. He can never comprehend absolute truth, which is GOD HIMSELF.

I think I can assert that your post is based on your limited understanding. It might not be true.

@ alcuin
by your analogy
my definition is also based on my limited understandings, so none of us can be sure who is right.
There is a form of pseudo-paradox in your assertion.
It goes this way;
If you say that absolute truth is from God alone and we make assertions by our limited understanding, what makes your statement "God knows absolute truth" correct? Cant I also say that it is from your limited understanding?

nwuyag:
I got you, but could you give me examples?

Of course several words do have different meanings. An example is "Geek" It can inherently mean a socially inept person and it can also mean a person with a particular devotion to something.

Inherent meanings can change from time to time depending on usage.

This has nothing to do with this attitude of christians who twist words and give it strange meanings

rationalmind:

Of course several words do have different meanings. An example is "Geek" It can inherently mean a socially inept person and it can also mean a person with a particular devotion to something.

Inherent meanings can change from time to time depending on usage.

This has nothing to do with this attitude of christians who twist words and give it strange meanings

Thanks, I will do a little more research on that.

@OP and everyone,
Who are u to question the Almighty God your maker? Or find a fault with this faultless & blameless being Note, whatever anyone says or think does not alter anything about God's Omnipresent, Omniscient & Omnipotent nature! These His 3 attributes are sure, undeniable & eternal!!!
Will a man be more righteous than God or will a mortal man be more just than His maker - let him that reproveth God answer me!
Have you taken a verse of the Bible in isolation and not compare scripture with scriptures to have a balance and perfect understanding of the Word of life?
I've realized that many people in this world are more concerned with 'how many people will be saved' in the last day but unfortunately are less concern with their personal relationship with the Lord and how to make their individual ways right with God, but keep thinking what'll happen to others in total neglet of their never dying soul.
Beloved, what can more comforting than these words as declared by the Almighty God Himself --- Ezekiel 33: "14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;[s] 15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die. 16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live."!!!
AND
Ezekiel 18:"23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?" - God is talking..., behold Christ is also knocking at the door of your heart right now, I say right now, if you listen carefully you'll hear Him and your name will be written in the book of life! Will you, brother, sister, will you open the door of your heart to Him?
Please be sober, repent, forsake your sins, accept Christ's salvation and rejoice in the Lord Jesus Christ, for there's hope for us in Christ both in this world and hereafter, only be holy and pure & we'll definately see God and be with Him forevermore ...
God bless
Bro. Sam.

nwuyag:
I am a little busy at the moment. So just stay tuned.

Still waiting.

Kabieosi:

@rationalmind

[img]http://3.bp..com/-YLCta2Xi7q0/T1ZFOWLKjOI/AAAAAAAAAjI/OQgfhrSnLdE/s400/73257-050-7BA1BE72.jpgr[/img]

Probably not the kind of fish you are familiar with or currently know

Religion is translated from "ligare"; latin for "to bind".

Drop religion, relationship is a sure fire solution

rationalmind:

Holy shi*t. This is elementary brother.

You are far more intelligent than this.

But this is the kind of mess you run into trying to defend the indefensible.

WHALES ARE NOT FISHES. THEY ARE MAMMALS.

@rationalmind

When did you edit in slip in the above informal cluelessness?

The fish was a sea monster which was as big as a whale, if not bigger

The whale picture was used to give a sense of it's size and for comparing it with an average size man

The same with the elephant picture. Pfft! SMH.

Is this thread still on?

alcuin: Is this thread still on?

Its not deleted, so its still on.
Its like the thread is being avoided.
Have you gone to do some research?

nwuyag:
Its not deleted, so its still on.
Its like the thread is being avoided.
Have you gone to do some research?

Humor me.... Research on what exactly?
I didn't avoid it. Just that couldn't get any worthwhile incentive to post here.

Well, the thread stays for educational purposes.

alcuin:
Is this thread still on?

nwuyag:
Its not deleted, so its still on.
Its like the thread is being avoided.
Have you gone to do some research?

alcuin:
Humor me.... Research on what exactly?
I didn't avoid it. Just that couldn't get any worthwhile incentive to post here.

Well, the thread stays for educational purposes.

@^^^

[img]http://4.bp..com/-wUQr64Rlz_M/T7Ab5zGqbxI/AAAAAAAABKQ/A5679p9HR8Y/s180/idi-amin-laughing.gif[/img]
^{JUST PASSING}
----oooO----
----(----)----
-----\--(--
------\_)-
-----------Oooo ---
-----------(--- -)---
------------)-- /----
------------(_/ - ^BY

Kabieosi:





@^^^

[img]http://4.bp..com/-wUQr64Rlz_M/T7Ab5zGqbxI/AAAAAAAABKQ/A5679p9HR8Y/s180/idi-amin-laughing.gif[/img]
^{JUST PASSING}
----oooO----
----(----)----
-----\--(--
------\_)-
-----------Oooo ---
-----------(--- -)---
------------)-- /----
------------(_/ - ^BY

I don't quite get your message but it seems funny the way you linked the posts.

wow... 5 years later