A large number of Nairalanders (especially the males) have a lot of animosity towards feminists for no logical reason(@ least from what I've seen), I wonder if they have the same hatred for MRAs (Men's Rights Advocates).

MRM began in the 1970s as a 'natural' response to the growing 'threats' of feminism.
The Men's Rights Movement also known as men's rights activism (MRA), is a collection of people, who believe that social, legal and economic discrimination against men qua men is present in society to the extent that fighting it deserves an organized effort mirroring feminism.

Below is the common, most prominent arguments for MRM:

1.) Circumcision: Circumcision is a violation of the rights of male children. In modern media, it is not given the same treatment as female genital mutilation."Women's pain is simply more important than men's pain."

2.) Child Support: Men do not have any right to force a woman to have an abortion, or carry the child to term. However, because women hold this right in full, men must have a right to declare a desire to opt-out of child support.

3.) Marital R*ape (Seun, the word r*Ape shouldn't be censored, c'mon!): Marital rape laws are misandrist because the wife automatically consents to sex with her husband (whenever he desires) as part of the marriage contract.

4.) Legal System: Courts discriminate against men during divorce and child custody hearings.
The Violence Against Women Act and primary aggressor laws (laws in some states in the US requiring the man to be arrested in any domestic dispute call, regardless of who the aggressor is) are factors that create environments in which domestic violence perpetrated against men by women is not taken seriously.

5.)"Pay Gap": The pay gap only exists because men work far more hours at high-stress jobs they hate with longer commutes, less flexibility, more physical risk, etc., just to be breadwinners and feed their families, only to die younger and get bashed for “earning more."

The main question is, "Is MRM necessary??"

http://www.menweb.org/svocirc.htm
http://lndavout..ca/2006/10/dangerous-canard-of-marital-rape.html
http://www.childcustodycoach.com/child-custody-statistics.php
http://www.ejfi.org/DV/dv-9.htm
http://ncfm.org/2011/04/issues/the-pay-gap/
Research on "pay gap" in Nigeria: http://www.ilo.org/public/english/revue/download/pdf/robinson.pdf (start reading from page 15)
http://www.ewp.rpi.edu/jbdn/jbdnv803.pdf (pg 76,77...)

Well, I definitely wholly support their cause as regards to the biases in the legal system. Those need to be fixed. They should be fair all around.

I partially support their cause as regards:

Circumcision: Yes there is pain associated, yes the medical community has waffled back and forth about the whether benefits outweigh risk but there have always been health benefits to male circumcision unlike female in which there is no health benefit whatsoever. Recently, there is mounting medical evidence in favor of male circumcision. Also the risks of female circumcision are much more severe, and serious complications are more common than with male circumcision.

Pay gap: The bottom line here is that pay should not be discordant purely based on gender lines. Whoever works longer hours doing the same job being paid more is just common sense. So wherever there may be deliberate misinformation regarding this to skew things in women's favor, I support their cause. But in cases where the work is truly equal and the pay is different, I do not support that.

Child support: This one's tricky. IMO, I will only support this in cases where the child was conceived under deceptive means by the woman. Otherwise, sorry, peeps, you must bear the consequences of your actions. You cannot have the right to force a woman to undergo an invasive medical procedure to terminate a life just because you refused to put on a condom. It's not like having an unplanned baby is a walk in the park for the single woman herself, she also gets to suffer economic, educational, professional hardship as a result of it, so embrace your own share of the responsibility.


I do NOT support their cause as regards to marital ra*pe. If your wife is not giving enough se*x, then work on your issues, see a se*x therapist, do what you must like an adult and if all else fails, end the marriage. It must never be acceptable to be a man's right to forcefully sleep with her because you are married.

...

Na wa o,u carry this matter for head gan o .@topic,I guess mrm are not hated coz they are not selfish and illogical with their agenda.My msg to all feminist:EARN EQUALITY,DON'T ASK FOR IT.

nipeks001: @topic,I guess mrm are not hated coz they are not selfish and illogical with their agenda.My msg to all feminist:EARN EQUALITY,DON'T ASK FOR IT.

Why should feminists earn equality and MRAs shouldn't??

What makes feminists demands selfish and illogical??

...Following

Hmmmm.

Clicks following button.

Wu Zetian on a roll

carujmonella: ...Following

Just follow o,don't comment..lol

jay bee: Wu Zetian on a roll

And you are rolling with her huh?

Mrs.Chima:


And you are rolling with her huh?

You jealous

jay bee:
You jealous

Of what

I don't think MRM is necessary, like you said it's come as a result of the rising threats of feminism.
Almost everything listed there were put in place to give women an advantage in a patrichal society.

The pay gap though needs to be looked into especially in sports. I've noticed the men and women take part in the same contests, practice just as hard and yet the women get paid less than the men when they win the victory cup Why's that?

-

uj_sizzle: I don't think MRM is necessary, like you said it's come as a result of the rising threats of feminism.
Almost everything listed there were put in place to give women an advantage in a patrichal society.

The pay gap though needs to be looked into especially in sports. I've noticed the men and women take part in the same contests, practice just as hard and yet the women get paid less than the men when they win the victory cup Why's that?

how bout tennis where the women play a best of three sets while the men play a best of five sets and are the main attraction to a competition (tv rights and all)....yet they take home the same pay package as the males.

and by the way, in sports isn't it the males that are more of the attraction and hence higher pay. if you want to bring up examples I believe the case of acting and others would be more suitable to buttress your point on pay-gap.

@topic, I guess the MRM isn't as vocal as the feminists hence less animosity towards it. IMHO.

Tabh:
Just follow o,don't comment..lol

Lol. Trust me, I'll never comment on this topic. The sister thread taught me some lessons . Just following and hoping this thread won't degenerate to insults, it ruins threads

carujmonella:

Lol. Trust me, I'll never comment on this topic. The sister thread taught me some lessons . Just following and hoping this thread won't degenerate to insults, it ruins threads

It shouldn't.

Wu Zetian:

Why should feminists earn equality and MRAs shouldn't??

What makes feminists demands selfish and illogical??

Why it is not illogical?,as i said in this world you earn certain things and priviledges not ask for them;it doesn't work that way(asking) and your agendas are selfish coz you guyz agenda only advocates GE when it favours you,until you start making sacrifices and preaching GE in situations where it does not favour you guyz,you will never be taken seriously.
And about your first question,MRA's agenda is not about equality:don't really know about them but i don't think a men's movement will be fighting for equality.

nipeks001:
Why it is not illogical?,as i said in this world you earn certain things and priviledges not ask for them;it doesn't work that way(asking) and your agendas are selfish coz you guyz agenda only advocates GE when it favours you,until you start making sacrifices and preaching GE in situations where it does not favour you guyz,you will never be taken seriously.
And about your first question,MRA's agenda is not about equality:don't really know about them but i don't think a men's movement will be fighting for equality.

Hi. I'd like to know what the poor girl child in India can do to earn a right to education equal to that of her brother. Thanks.

y-fo:


how bout tennis where the women play a best of three sets while the men play a best of five sets and are the main attraction to a competition (tv rights and all)....yet they take home the same pay package as the males.

and by the way, in sports isn't it the males that are more of the attraction and hence higher pay. if you want to bring up examples I believe the case of acting and others would be more suitable to buttress your point on pay-gap.

@topic, I guess the MRM isn't as vocal as the feminists hence less animosity towards it. IMHO.

They are very vocal, they are just relatively new(compared to feminism) and non-existing in countries like Nigeria.

MRM will be pointless in Nigeria because Nigeria has no real implementation laws protecting women. Nigerian women do not enjoy any of the benefits listed except circumcision.

Wu Zetian:

They are very vocal, they are just relatively new(compared to feminism) and non-existing in countries like Nigeria.

MRM will be pointless in Nigeria because Nigeria has no real implementation laws protecting women. Nigerian women do not enjoy any of the benefits listed except circumcision.

You said it started in the 1970's and could be relatively new compared to feminism, but that's a pretty long time gap to have gathered enough haters/animosity if they are very vocal or illogical.

To be honest, I never knew feminism existed in Nigeria till I encountered it on nairaland. And what I mean by being vocal is the stunts perpetrated by hard-core feminist around the world such as going unclad and using unprintable words to describe men, if you're wondering why the feminists have such a bad reputation then I'm guessing that's a part of the reason.
To the best of my knowledge, the MRM haven't been as "vocal" as the feminist hence less hatred is shown towards them, I still stand by this.

You are absolutely spot-on that Nigeria doesn't have those benefits enshrined in its constitution hence the absence of the MRM, which leads me to the question....why are you asking -on a predominantly Nigerian forum- the reason people don't have hatred for a subject they have hardly ever encountered prior to now

nipeks001:
Why it is not illogical?,as i said in this world you earn certain things and priviledges not ask for them;it doesn't work that way(asking) and your agendas are selfish coz you guyz agenda only advocates GE when it favours you,until you start making sacrifices and preaching GE in situations where it does not favour you guyz,you will never be taken seriously.
And about your first question,MRA's agenda is not about equality:don't really know about them but i don't think a men's movement will be fighting for equality.

LMAO!

Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women. (Let's get the meaning out of the way first)
I am a feminist, you are the one claiming my beliefs and ideologies are illogical, you have to tell me why. You don't claim something is illogical when you have no knowledge about what it entails neither do you have any logical points to back up your stance.

To say feminism is not taken seriously is to deny the great likes of Deborah Sampson, Alice Paul, Susan B. Anthoney and likes. Feminism is the reason why your mother can vote. This same feminism is the reason why your sister can be educated. This same feminism is the reason why your gf can work in top positions in her workplace.

Modern feminism have major goals:
1.) Obtain equal pay.

2.) Eradicate sexxual objectification of women.

3.) Social equality: Eradicating ills of society that mandates wives picking the last name of their husband. A woman should have a choice. Freedom of career choice. A woman should be free to choose whatever she wants to do with her life.
Gender roles: In a patriarchal society, it is not expected of the husband or son to be the caregiver because they are given the freedom to make their work a priority, just as a woman’s freedom is to make care-giving their priority. However, if a man focus’s on care giving rather than their work, they are no longer considered a “good man”. The same rule applies to women: if they focus on work before those they are supposed to care for, they are not considered a “good woman”. Feminists are saying being maternal does not make women better care-givers and they should be respected for choosing to put career over having a family and that men are not the only ones that should build a career, men are also care-givers and men should not be seen as vessels that are unable do house chores or take care of their kids. It's also about encouraging individuality in children.
(To be fair, this is not prominent in western cultures though, most fathers are more than glad to take care of their kids and help around the house. They see it as their duty not just the woman's duty.)

4.) Legal System: Though we have this in some countries, not so much in African countries though Since women are the major victims of domestic abuse and r*Ape, there should be institutions/laws in-place to protect them.

MRMs & FEMINISTS=LOSERS
CRYBABIES WHO REFUSE TO GROW UP
AND TACKLE LIFE'S CHALLENGES HEAD ON
INSTEAD THEY SPEND TIME SPEWING BILE

y-fo:


You said it started in the 1970's and could be relatively new compared to feminism, but that's a pretty long time gap to have gathered enough haters/animosity if they are very vocal or illogical.

To be honest, [size=13pt]I never knew feminism existed in Nigeria till I encountered it on nairaland.[/size] And what I mean by being vocal is the stunts perpetrated by hard-core feminist around abroad such as going unclad and using unprintable words to describe men, if you're wondering why the feminists have such a bad reputation then I'm guessing that's a part of the reason.
To the best of my knowledge, the MRM haven't been as "vocal" as the feminist hence less hatred is shown towards them, I still stand by this.

You are absolutely spot-on that Nigeria doesn't have those benefits enshrined in its constitution hence the absence of the MRM, which leads me to the question....why are you asking -on a predominantly Nigerian forum- the reason people don't have hatred for a subject they have hardly ever encountered prior to now

The highlighted line just debunked your question.

We do not have any active feminist groups in Nigeria either(@ least from the lil research I made). Since you gained most of your knowledge on Nairaland about feminism, the thread is here to educate you about MRAs. It would also be interesting to me to see what conclusions people who have so much hatred towards feminism and little knowledge about what it entails draw about MRM.

I agree with the MRM especially on the issue of favour granted to females in child custody, divorce and at times rape cases, where men are framed where there was consensual $€x. As for feminists, they are of little concern to me except when they make much ado over little. Women's rights is okay by me.

Wu Zetian:

The highlighted line just debunked your question.

We do not have any active feminist groups in Nigeria either(@ least from the lil research I made). Since you gained most of your knowledge on Nairaland about feminism, the thread is here to educate you about MRAs. It would also be interesting to me to see what conclusions people who have so much hatred towards feminism have towards MRM.

Correction, my knowledge about feminism did not come from nairaland...rather, the fact that there are some feminists IN NIGERIA (not the concept) is what I learned on the forum.

By this time on your last thread, hadn't it gone past the first page? Now you could dismiss it as people supporting the MRM or not wanting to bad-mouth it but from my perspective...its cause people (especially Nigerians/Africans) dont have enough knowledge to form their opinion on said matter as the little details you provided up there isn't sufficient to provide you with what you're seeking.

*note* going to google and all to seek out more information isn't enough to sensitize people enough to have a concrete debate. Just my two kobo.

y-fo:


Correction, my knowledge about feminism did not come from nairaland...rather, the fact that there are some feminists IN NIGERIA (not the concept) is what I learned on the forum.

By this time on your last thread, hadn't it gone past the first page? Now you could dismiss it as people supporting the MRM or not wanting to bad-mouth it but from my perspective...its cause people (especially Nigerians/Africans) dont have enough knowledge to form their opinion on said matter as the little details you provided up there isn't sufficient to provide you with what you're seeking.

*note* going to google and all to seek out more information isn't enough to sensitize people enough to have a concrete debate. Just my two kobo.

Isn't that funny coming from someone that knows little about feminism but has chosen to jump to ill-thought out conclusions about it.

I just didn't know the ideology was such a strange concept to Nigerians, the way they fight feminism tooth and nail, you'll think they're well versed in the issue of equality, human rights and all. Very funny, this brings something to light though-most people that do not support feminism on here see it as a strange concept and are just having a hard time accepting change.

Wu Zetian:
Isn't that funny coming from someone that knows little about feminism but has chosen to jump to ill-thought conclusions about it.

I just didn't know the ideology was such a strange concept to Nigerians, the way they fight feminism tooth and nail, you'll think they're well versed in the issue of equality, human rights and all. Very funny, this brings something to light though-most people that do not support feminism on here see it as a strange concept and are just having hard time accepting change.

Where did you get the notion that I know "very little" about feminism, I can't be a specialist in every subject matter but that doesn't mean I don't have an adequate grasp of the subject matter.
Your first line and how you worded it is uncalled for, having a civil discussion with you seems to be a problem as you are un-necessarily aggressive.

Have I ever stated that the feminism ideology is mis-guided? I mostly give theories on why things are the way they are and you don't bother giving any counter or just ignore the points I make and focus on just a single aspect of my post.
1. on how MRM isn't as "vocal" as the feminism movement. The extreme stunts of both sides.
2. on how people may not have enough info/experience on MRM to have a solid debate.

Back to your issue on feminism ideology. I'm I wrong in stating that there are hardcore feminists that have nothing but hate for the male sex and use extreme publicity stunts to drive home their points e.g. going unclad in broad-day light with inscriptions on their body, calling the male sex unprintable names and relating us to being worse than animals e.t.c.
I think you fail to realise that every ideology or system has their own excesses and that was the only aspect I challanged concerning feminism, do I hate all muslims for the few mis-guided ones that are into terrorism...no. Similarly, I don't begrudge all feminists as the core of their struggle is genuine but you see the patriachial system and focus only on its excesses.

I have explained the extreme feminism above and the extreme part of the patriachial system I would support to be fought against are; women being looked down at work, not being given equal opportunities in political and economic aspects and being viewed as a property of the man.

However, the patriachial system is based simply on a man leading the home...do you want the females to become the head or have two captains in a boat?
second aspect concerning gender roles, most african people (including women) see nothing wrong in this and if you have a difference of opinion...that's fine but don't make it out to seem we place our women as inferior species, we just have a different system that we adhere to, what's more..the females agree with this (being complements of the males and vice-versa that is).

*note* how we have gone from discussing MRM to focusing mostly on feminism which just buttresses my point that MRM cannot be fully debated on this forum. IMO.

y-fo:

However, the patriachial system is based simply on a man leading the home...do you want the females to become the head or have two captains in a boat?
second aspect concerning gender roles, most african people (including women) see nothing wrong in this and if you have a difference of opinion...that's fine but don't make it out to seem we place our women as inferior species, we just have a different system that we adhere to, what's more..the females agree with this (being complements of the males and vice-versa that is).

*note* how we have gone from discussing MRM to focusing mostly on feminism which just buttresses my point that MRM cannot be fully debated on this forum. IMO.

My bad, I think I mistook you for the nipeks001 guy. Sowwy *whew!*

The only reason I select any part of your post is because that is the one I choose to address, duh! LoL. I don't bother talking about the ones we both agree on or the ones that are strictly your opinion and are in no way harmful to my cause.

"Patriarchy is a social system in which males are the primary authority figures central to social organization, occupying roles of political leadership, moral authority, and control of property, and where fathers hold authority over women and children. It implies the institutions of male rule and privilege, and entails female subordination".

If you want me to believe you actually aren't ignorant about the issues of feminism, the least you can do is get simple definitions right.
Patriarchy is not only pertinent to the family institution. One of the cries of feminism is to give women the ability to choose. If a woman chooses to make her husband the head, then fine but the problem is a society that mandates that men must be the head.

I doubt I'm going to allow my husband be the head, that's just because I'm more of a team player. I believe no person's decision is more valuable than the other and we both have to work hand in hand to achieve our goals. I believe a woman should become the head of the family if she chooses to and if her husband agrees to it.

I don't mind if an African man/woman agrees to gender roles, the issue here is their kids. Are you teaching your children that they are limited because of their gender or are you encouraging individuality?? A stereotypical Nigerian boy today thinks his worth depends on how much money he has, and a stereotypical Nigerian girl today is concerned about her looks and getting married to a guy that can financially take care of her before the age 30. A divorced woman in Nigeria today is seen as a taboo and a single woman past the age of 30 is viewed as a curse and a plague. Why?? Because in a patriarchal society, the sole purpose of a woman is child bearing and satisfying a man's sexxual needs.
I see threads every day on NL of people complaining about these things, which are all branches of the root problem-patriarchal society.
You might think Nigerians are not complaining but they are.

You can refer to this post for reasons why some women in Nigeria accept your beliefs.
https://www.nairaland.com/1469493/patriarchy-male-privilege/1#18751293

MRM is built on feminism. It exists because of feminism, their whole principle revolves around feminism. All MRAs do is talk about feminism, it's simply logical that we deviate to feminism when we talk about MRM.

190-the-clown:
Shollypopz Again

You are missing me too much ehn? Don't worry, I will 'DHL' abiL to you

Wu Zetian:

You are missing me too much ehn? Don't worry, I will 'DHL' abiL to you