DrummaBoy: i do not have the time and luxury of showing that everthing you listed above in response to demi's question to U to define the gospel is New Age. It is the fruts of the Word of Faith ministry that results from manipulatin of the gospel's account of Jesus ministry. It is the dimensin of occultism I waned yiu about. The gospel is God's solutn to sin. Perid. Matthew 1:21. God confirming the gospel with signs is the working of His soveroegnity and cannot be worked up with faith or otherwise. I invite U to study my 5 paper series on d gospel. Part 5 treats Word of Faith. Hope U can learn something from it.

Bros, evn d acceptance of d gospel requires d faith of a man thru his will not d sovereignty. Think i will appreciate if u can explain wat u mean by sovereignty of God.

.

ajayikayod:

Bros, evn d acceptance of d gospel requires d faith of a man thru his will not d sovereignty. Think i will appreciate if u can explain wat u mean by sovereignty of God.

Read my blog. See my signature. Like I said: no luxury of time. Cheers.

shdemidemi:

What do you think about how Jesus was mobbed, beaten and killed... Was God part of it?


Please help us with what the gospel is as well.


My next question might sound patronising, I beg you to please bear with me on this.

Do you really hear God speak... When you hear him, do you hear a man's voice, baby's, woman's....what voice do you actually hear?

Do u kno wat staged movies does? D actor and d boss ar preplan and all actions are carried out by d actors/actress lik robots without personal influencing.
Dts exactly wat u r taking d events of d scriptures to be. If God staged d beating and death of Christ, then he also staged his temptation by d devil, also staged all d sickness/infirmities of ppl dt Christ healed. Then all our life is just a stage in d hands of a God who choose to do wat ever he will with considering who we are. Then why d death of christ sinc he already planned who goes to hell, why d preachin of d gospel sinc He already planned some not to recieve d gospel. Then we should all eat and die since we are robots controlled by Almighty
hands who doesnt consider our choice but wat ever He wants.

But thanks be to God, in His sovereignty, He gav us will to chose (good or evil), choices to decide whr we stand. Ur message here will narrow down d who events of d scripture and life to a staged movies from d disobedient of Satan, d Fall of Adam, d birth, death and ressurection of Christ, d conversion of Paul and d preaching of d gospel.

It is whn we couldnt experience d supernatural in our daily walk dts whn we turn to take God to do as He Wills. I still wonder whr u placed most of Christ words about God. I never see Christ for once talking about God's Will in ds light u talk. He asked, he recieved, d early church asked, they recieved, but u said d church after dt cant becos its done away wit. Bro, i m part of dt 1st church u saw/read in d scripture, part of d same body and Spirit. Walk in d same privilege and authority. Preach d same gospel. I draw my pattern of lik from d Body, the church which Christ is d Head. D Head shared all abilities wit every part of d body.

Also u wouldnt tell me, whether God does evil. Since u said he does all tins as he Wills.

Finally, u asked (Do you really hear God speak... When you hear him, do you hear a man...), I ask u also. How do u receive revelation/understanding whn u study God's Word, how do ur spirit bear witness with wat u reciev. Dts how i recieve from Him, nothing spectacular but all supernatural.

@ DrummaBoy

Are you a Calvinist ?

@ajayikayod

What wld you say about the two nations in Rebecca's womb, even before they were born God had said the elder shall serve the younger.


What wld u say about pharaoh that God created only for destruction?

Romans 9

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Man is saved by grace through faith , but he must exercise this faith to be saved.

To suggest that God allows human beings to be born , knowing that a greater majority are damned at birth is a a huge fallacy.

We all have a choice to make and God respects this.

frosbel: @ DrummaBoy

Are you a Calvinist ?

I hope my answer won't end our e-friendship. Lol. Yes i have calvinistic persuasions. I have not read Calvin's works but been taught by many calvinist. I have been exposed to every Chrisitian theology, at least almost, and I find calvin closest to the apostolic faith. Now, I reject extreme calvinism that preqches some are saved and some are damned, and we are simply porns in God,s hands. Rather I accept the protestant theology of the 16th century which Calvin help put into theology. In addition since meeting Jesus I have attended mainly pentecostal churches. I beleive in the power of the Holy Ghost working as God permits abd reject Word of Faith theology. Hope dat helps. Now how much pounds will U pay for that revelation. Lol!!!

Finally, u asked (Do you really hear God speak... When you hear him, do you hear a man...), I ask u also. How do u receive revelation/understanding whn u study God's Word, how do ur spirit bear witness with wat u reciev. Dts how i recieve from Him, nothing spectacular but all supernatural.

I receive understanding by studying and learning scriptures ..finito

The scripture never said the Holy Spirit will speak to me, God never talks to me but through the volume of the books....He is my comforter meaning He gives me strength to do what I cannot naturally do.
I believe you also get your understanding by reading scriptures or do you?

DrummaBoy: I hope my answer won't end our e-friendship. Lol. Yes i have calvinistic persuasions. I have not read Calvin's works but been taught by many calvinist. I have been exposed to every Chrisitian theology, at least almost, and I find calvin closest to the apostolic faith. Now, I reject extreme calvinism that preqches some are saved and some are damned, and we are simply porns in God,s hands. Rather I accept the protestant theology of the 16th century which Calvin help put into theology. In addition since meeting Jesus I have attended mainly pentecostal churches. I beleive in the power of the Holy Ghost working as God permits abd reject Word of Faith theology. Hope dat helps. Now how much pounds will U pay for that revelation. Lol!!!

- Well, I do not agree with the once saved always saved gospel of Calvin.

- I also do not agree with the Calvinist notion that God has chosen those he will save from birth and damned the rest, which really suggests that God has not given equal opportunity for salvation to all mankind. This is elitist Christianity not Gospel Christianity.

- I cannot be friends of a man ( Calvin ) who murdered his counterpart ( Michael Servetus ) , a renowned scientist and theologian, because he rejected the Trinity as pagan. The bible says we should not kill, but Calvin facilitated murder.

- Calvin was a tyrant - Google it


I can go on and on, but let me stop here for now,

We are still brothers irrespective.

DrummaBoy: Read my blog. See my signature. Like I said: no luxury of time. Cheers.

I ve definately gone thru it. Ur stand in 5 was on d fact dt Word of Faith preaches to acquire for self and for self glorification.
Firstly, in as much as i hav some reservation for d so called Word of Faith, i m always careful in generalizing issues. Ur claim dt d preacher of Word of Faith is to fulfil thr lust wont be absolutely true. I will leave dt for them to defend wat they do.

Secondly, I will quite advise if u can find time to go thru my tots again from d beginning of ds post, tell u mit fully understand my stand. D preaching of d gospel is d call of every believer and i can confidently to tell u dt d assembly i identify wit, its a lifestyle of every member, wit proper guide and training to established u as a minister of d gospel evrywhr u are. whr i will always defer from d most tots here is whn we talk of God bein d source of everytin to show His glory. Dt places God in a position to do evil also in other to show His glory.
u mentioned God sovereignty in all situation. Can i ask, wat do u think will b God's Will whn u r on d field preaching and sees a man tormented all his life by infirmities? Wat do u think d mind of God will be on dt. Like i said earlier, if u want to kno wat God's Will in any situation, look at Jesus, wat will Jesus want to do in such situation. In all situations we read about him, he was willing to heal, save and delivered, Dts exactly d Will of God. Does God Will ppl sick? ppl crushed in accidents? in disasters? If dts wat it is, then dts an evil God. But glory b to God, thr is no evil in God.

In all God's sovereignty, He never causes evil. Evil are due to d Fall, men's heart and d accuser.

@frosbel, I am typing from a phone so I am constrained and could have responded to each point although I could request shdemidemi to respond to them on my behalf. Suffiet to say Calvinism has gone through its own reformation since Calvin himself and God by His Spirt's witness in our heart is helping to accept the genuine aspects of Calvinism and reject the false. @Shdemidemi, pls can you repond to frosbel's post to me on Calvin? Thanks.

@ajayik, thanks for vistng the blog. TRAFFIC!!! Lol. I agree that God is not the auhtor of evil. I agree that He wants the best for us but I think fols like U go the other extreme of the Calvinist to claim God cannot use evil to bring about god. How then do we interpret the stories of Joseph, Job or even Jesus' cross? It is because their is a wonderful soveriegnity of God in bringing good out of everything - good or bad - to His glory for His children. My qualms with nany New Age teachings is their making man the center of God's world; when rather God is the center of it all and man is here to help fulfill God's plan. So if I am on the field and I see the infirmed. I will pray in faith and there is high likelihood that man will be healed bc that will be a sign and a wonder to point the unbelieving to the Savior' like it was in that wonderful testimony U recounted. But to now think God is at my beck and call to use when I feel like is the error of modern pentecostals. Said too much already.

I have never read any of Calvin's work, I can only go back to the scriptures. A similar question was supposedly asked in Romans 9

19 You will say to me, Why then does He still find fault and blame us [for sinning]? For who can resist and withstand His will?

Paul had explained election to these people.. He had explained how Abraham did not do anything, God just chose him. Jacob was yet unborn when God chose him, He knew nothing about doing good or bad.

11 And the children were yet unborn and had so far done nothing either good or evil. Even so, in order further to carry out God’s purpose of selection (election, choice), which depends not on works or what men can do, but on Him Who calls [them],

So the question popped up, why will God find fault in us, when He had predestined us according to His purpose. Paul's reply is self-explanatory, he said

20 But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and answer back to God? Will what is formed say to him that formed it, Why have you made me thus?
21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same mass (lump) one vessel for beauty and distinction and honorable use, and another for menial or ignoble and dishonorable use?

shdemidemi:

I receive understanding by studying and learning scriptures ..finito

The scripture never said the Holy Spirit will speak to me, God never talks to me but through the volume of the books....He is my comforter meaning He gives me strength to do what I cannot naturally do.
I believe you also get your understanding by reading scriptures or do you?

Whn u hear ppl say" God talked to them". It doesnt hav to mean they heard a voice or a knock. God speaks to our spirits, minister revelation to us thru it, sometimes whn studying, sometimes in place of prayer. I ve got several expressions in my spirits about many issues concerning me and others. I ve recieved severally whn teaching God's Word expressions about ppl's situations. I usually dont base d sharing of God's Word on human experience but 4d sake of ds discussion let me share this.
I was invited to a small fellowship gathering some years back to minister. As i was teaching i recievd an expression in my spirit for a guy to pray for his Dad, i never kno him from Adam and all i could sensed is go to him and pray for his Dad. I approached him and asked, wats wrong wit his Dad. he told me dt his Dad has been on sick bed for almost two years without solution. Wat ll u call dt? Did i plan it? No. Do i kno d guy b4? No.

Was in a ten man prayer meeting sometimes back, got expression in my spirit to pray, dt i will b sack 2moro (i never had any issue ind office). As i kno myself, i just felt its not possible because i kno how much d company needed me. I refused to mention it. The evening of next day,after reaching home from work without issues, a brother who was wit us in dt prayer meeting came to my place to show me his sack letter. He was sacked d next day of d revelation. Bro, till 2day i still believd i caused d sack because of my disobedient. I maynt hav recieved in expression fully well but d message is clear (sack).

In as much as d demonstration of Spirit gifts shouldnt b for show off or personal benefit, they must definately not b taken for granted as being extinct.

frosbel: Man is saved by grace through faith , but he must exercise this faith to be saved.

To suggest that God allows human beings to be born , knowing that a greater majority are damned at birth is a a huge fallacy.

We all have a choice to make and God respects this.

Absolutely tru and LOUD in d scriptures.

ajayikayod:

Whn u hear ppl say" God talked to them". It doesnt hav to mean they heard a voice or a knock. God speaks to our spirits, minister revelation to us thru it, sometimes whn studying, sometimes in place of prayer. I ve got several expressions in my spirits about many issues concerning me and others. I ve recieved severally whn teaching God's Word expressions about ppl's situations. I usually dont base d sharing of God's Word on human experience but 4d sake of ds discussion let me share this.
I was invited to a small fellowship gathering some years back to minister. As i was teaching i recievd an expression in my spirit for a guy to pray for his Dad, i never kno him from Adam and all i could sensed is go to him and pray for his Dad. I approached him and asked, wats wrong wit his Dad. he told me dt his Dad has been on sick bed for almost two years without solution. Wat ll u call dt? Did i plan it? No. Do i kno d guy b4? No.

Was in a ten man prayer meeting sometimes back, got expression in my spirit to pray, dt i will b sack 2moro (i never had any issue ind office). As i kno myself, i just felt its not possible because i kno how much d company needed me. I refused to mention it. The evening of next day,after reaching home from work without issues, a brother who was wit us in dt prayer meeting came to my place to show me his sack letter. He was sacked d next day of d revelation. Bro, till 2day i still believd i caused d sack because of my disobedient. I maynt hav recieved in expression fully well but d message is clear (sack).

In as much as d demonstration of Spirit gifts shouldnt b for show off or personal benefit, they must definately not b taken for granted as being extinct.

I like this particlar post of yours because you said you won't mistake personal experience, which is ofcourse unique to you with the truth of God's word. I am also happy you know God does not speak voices in our ears.

You mentioned some ways you feel God uses to communicate with you. They sound right but we must be very careful not to mistake our conscience for God.

As for your experiences, I won't say you are lying cos its possible but it is not a sure word. You cld have been wrong, but u were not on this occasion. What if they did not fire u from work the next day, does it mean God lied or u probably didn't get what was shown to you. All I am saying is we can't base this on sometimes it wil work, sometimes it won't.

Back to God's word...Hebrews 1v1 says In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways but in these last days he has spoken to us by his son...

Its all past tense...He never said He will speak to us apart from His word.

I have gone through the whole thread from where I left off. Many of our brothers here are still confused about what the gospel is.

When S'demi was asking, what the gospel is. Some of you are quoting what was preached AS GOODNEWS AT ONE DISPENSATION OR ANOTHER but the brother was asking what gospel was given or preached to u as a church.

The gospel is simply goodnews and it is ALWAYS ONE AT EVERY DISPENSATION AND TIME, NOT TWO. The gospel the church have today is ONE but NOT THE SAME AS THE ONE GOSPEL PREACHED TO LIKE ABRAHAM, PREACHED BY JOHN THE BAPTIST, PREACHED BY CHRIST. If you don't fit the gospel into different dispensation when preached, you confuse everything to be the same.

The problem here is, S'demi knows the deep truth about the gospel-dispensation but in my own opinion, he is not using right words in his explanation or teaching or might not be teaching it the way he knows it for everyone to understand. I will try follow the thread and see if I can help.

Let's keep the Spirit of humility in the thread as it is already in humility mode so we can all learn.

PLUS, I might be here Sunday morning (between 11am-1pm GMT) to see how the discussion goes and if I will contribute in a little way.

The gospel message is the message of LIFE.
That is the entirety of it.
The same gospel was preached to the Israelites for Paul affirmed that what should have brought life led to death because of unbelief. The message God even gave Adam in Eden was life...Do not eat of this tree...man disobeyed.
The same gospel was preached to Abraham that we will be JUSTIFIED through faith. Anyone not justified by God is as well dead.
In God's favour (grace) is life. In His rest is life. His commands and words are life. Jesus said He came to give us life more abundantly.
Everything in the good news is about life. The kingdom of God is life and life everlasting.
God gave His only Son so whoever BELIEVES in Him will NOT perish but have everlasting life. Even Jesus told us what eternal life is...that we may KNOW HIM...
That is the message. LIFE, LIFE, LIFE and accepting the messgw is by BELIEF and FAITH.

^ Again, in every time and dispensation, the goodnews is one BUT what goodnews is preached in every dispensation is different. In our time and dispensation, the goodnews is still one but not the same ONE preached to Abraham and Adam and to Israel etc. I have few or one hour to stay here for now before I get other things done. Look deeply into this scripture:

Hebrews 1:1-2
Amplified Bible (AMP)

1 In many separate revelations [each of which set forth a portion of the Truth] and in different ways God spoke of old to [our] forefathers in and by the prophets,

2 [But] in the last of these days He has spoken to us in [the person of a] Son, Whom He appointed Heir and lawful Owner of all things, also by and through Whom He created the worlds and the reaches of space and the ages of time [He made, produced, built, operated, and arranged them in order].

You can draw out like almost 10 doctrines\comparison out by comparing those two verses.

I am with our sister Alwaystrue on this one.

The resounding message all through the bible is everlasting life in the kingdom of GOD which will shortly come to stay. There was never another objective, for no sooner did Adam sin away the privilege of gaining everlasting life , did God begin to initiate the plan of restoration through Christ Jesus.

Jesus is that king of the new Kingdom and he has come to not only show us the father , but how to become partakers of that kingdom through his sacrifice and our conduct.

There is one gospel, irrespective of the dispensation, it has never changed.

Let us not complicate simple bible truths with excessive theology.

^ Okay frosbel,

The gospel preach to Adam & Eve,

1. What is it AND

2. Is it the same gospel preached to YOU?

Goshen360: ^ Okay frosbel,

The gospel preach to Adam & Eve,

1. What is it AND

2. Is it the same gospel preached to YOU?

The gospel means good news and the news is about everlasting life in the kingdom of GOD.

I am also unsure what you mean by gospel preached to Adam , since preaching started after the fall and not before.

However, we can say that Adam had the same choice as us, i.e to obey and live or to disobey and die. In this context, yes it is the same gospel.

God has only one objective for mankind, not 2, and it is to grant life to the compliant or to destroy the non-compliant forever.

^ I or We need to take this step-by-step in systematic way. That's how we can understand what is confusing here. I might also continue this thread from my phone while I'm out from home soon.

@ Frosbel and others, I await you answers, at least let's start the gospel (goodness) from Genesis down to our time, picking just few instances.

frosbel:

The gospel means good news and the news is about everlasting life in the kingdom of GOD.

There's kingdom of God and kingdom of heaven. Let's leave that for now so we can concentrate on the gospel. Off course the gospel means GOODNEWS......BUT.....my\the question is WHAT GOODNEWS is it that was preached or SAID to people at one time or the other? Let's continue

frosbel:

I am also unsure what you mean by gospel preached to Adam , since preaching started after the fall and not before.

When Adam fell, God didn't just stepped out of the scene. His fall gave birth to THE GOODNESS. Frosbel, If you can't point out the goodness preached to Adam & Eve, then, I'm afraid, you need to study from the dispensation as to what is said - that's what is means to RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH.

frosbel:

However, we can say that Adam had the same choice as us, i.e to obey and live or to disobey and die. In this context, yes it is the same gospel.

NO sir. You have to mention the gospel preached to the Adam & Eve first before you can confidently says yes or no. If you point it out, then we can easily know if it is the SAME THING PREACHED TO US....that's my first starting point and objective and we move gradually.

frosbel:

God has only one objective for mankind, not 2, and it is to grant life to the compliant or to destroy the non-compliant forever.

I agree - God had one objective to achieve from the gospel NOT two. Again, the ONE gospel to Adam and others, is it the same ONE gospel preached to us?

[quote author=Goshen360]

There's kingdom of God and kingdom of heaven. Let's leave that for now so we can concentrate on the gospel. Off course the gospel means GOODNEWS......BUT.....my\the question is WHAT GOODNEWS is it that was preached or SAID to people at one time or the other? Let's continue

There is no difference between the Kingdom of heaven and Kingdom of God, the Kingdom of heaven is the Kingdom of God and vice versa.

When Adam fell, God didn't just stepped out of the scene. His fall gave birth to THE GOODNESS. Frosbel, If you can't point out the goodness preached to Adam & Eve, then, I'm afraid, you need to study from the dispensation as to what is said - that's what is means to RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH.

I disagree. Let me make this simple, Adam partook of Gods goodness , he could have continued to enjoy this goodness forever if he had obeyed God, but his disobedience cut him off from the goodness which resulted in death. Then God started a plan of restoration for mankind through Israel and ultimately Jesus Christ, so that the good news of this kingdom might be spread to the ends of the earth.

NO sir. You have to mention the gospel preached to the Adam & Eve first before you can confidently says yes or no. If you point it out, then we can easily know if it is the SAME THING PREACHED TO US....that's my first starting point and objective and we move gradually.

Read Genesis 3:15

I agree - God had one objective to achieve from the gospel NOT two. Again, the ONE gospel to Adam and others, is it the same ONE gospel preached to us?

nope, one Gospel all through.

frosbel: I am with our sister Alwaystrue on this one.

The resounding message all through the bible is everlasting life in the kingdom of GOD which will shortly come to stay. There was never another objective, for no sooner did Adam sin away the privilege of gaining everlasting life , did God begin to initiate the plan of restoration through Christ Jesus.

Jesus is that king of the new Kingdom and he has come to not only show us the father , but how to become partakers of that kingdom through his sacrifice and our conduct.

There is one gospel, irrespective of the dispensation, it has never changed.

Let us not complicate simple bible truths with excessive theology.

I am glad we agree on this. That is the simplicity of the gospel message. Let us be attentive to God's word and incline our ears to His sayings, for they are life and healing.

frosbel:

Read Genesis 3:15

That's why I said, God didn't just step out of the scene, he preached or gave them the gospel.

Now, that you mentioned it, that's the gospel God preached to Adam and Eve; Is the above goodnews (even though man fell) the same as what is being preached to YOU. Did God say this same thing said to Adam & Eve to YOU ?

^ Stepping out now from home, I will continue from my phone.

DrummaBoy: @ajayik, thanks for vistng the blog. TRAFFIC!!! Lol. I agree that God is not the auhtor of evil. I agree that He wants the best for us but I think fols like U go the other extreme of the Calvinist to claim God cannot use evil to bring about god. How then do we interpret the stories of Joseph, Job or even Jesus' cross? It is because their is a wonderful soveriegnity of God in bringing good out of everything - good or bad - to His glory for His children. My qualms with nany New Age teachings is their making man the center of God's world; when rather God is the center of it all and man is here to help fulfill God's plan. So if I am on the field and I see the infirmed. I will pray in faith and there is high likelihood that man will be healed bc that will be a sign and a wonder to point the unbelieving to the Savior' like it was in that wonderful testimony U recounted. But to now think God is at my beck and call to use when I feel like is the error of modern pentecostals. Said too much already.

This one you are in haste? Are you saying that the evil that befell Job was cause by God, to bring about good? Or that God helped Job to overcome his temptation?

@shdemidemi
where did you leave your John 3:16, "whosoever believe...." "I put before you today life and good, and death and bad...you must chose."
There must be a balance even as it concerns the promise, else in the end you will make it seems as God is partial and also the cause of the tribulations/temptations suffered by even His people.

Boomark:

This one you are in haste? Are you saying that the evil that befell Job was cause by God, to bring about good? Or that God helped Job to overcome his temptation?

@shdemidemi
where did you leave your John 3:16, "whosoever believe...." "I put before you today life and good, and death and bad...you must chose."
There must be a balance even as it concerns the promise, else in the end you will make it seems as God is partial and also the cause of the tribulations/temptations suffered by even His people.

Do you think the devil can touch a Christian without the permission and endorsement of heaven?

John 3:16 can't work as a leverage because we later learnt in the epistles that it is God who works in us to will, choose and believe Him.

shdemidemi:

Do you think the devil can touch a Christian without the permission and endorsement of heaven?

John 3:16 can't work as a leverage because we later learnt in the epistles that it is God who works in us to will, choose and believe Him.

No. And you will not also think it is God brings the temptation by himself. It all ended in Permission because their is evil in the world already as Satan is saying that man will not serve Him because of the protection He gives. By that, our Faith in God is tested.

That is why it say, "Lead us Not into temptation but deliver us from all evil." "whenever you are tempted, do not say you are tempted by God."

John 3:16 is the Will of God and has never changed. The preaching for Christians to flee from sin will not make sense if God has already created some Christians to be faithful while He made some to fall.

If we remain in union with Him, His works will be made manifest in us.