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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! (37072 Views)
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Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by RandomAfricanAm: 1:42am On Nov 25, 2013 |
KidStranglehold: RandomAfricanAm: |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Fulaman198(m): 1:56am On Nov 25, 2013 |
KidStranglehold: I don't understand why myself 1 Like |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Nobody: 1:59am On Nov 25, 2013 |
More Desperation... PAGAN 9JA: Moot points and more projections Doesn't prove anything. PAGAN 9JA:Moot point and still no sources. PAGAN 9JA: More moot points that have nothing to do with anything and still no sources. Your desperation is showing. Still have not proven all black Tuares are the result of slavery. And again no one mentioned Arabs. Its funny you mention blacks being slaves, when most of the slaves during that time were Europeans/Turkish/Syrian female slaves that made their way all the way to Cameroon even. Tuareg men took many European slaves which is why Tuaregs mtDNA is European. The irony... PAGAN 9JA: Doesn't prove anything. There is no such thing as pure Tuareg. Get your pseudo nonsense out of here. Next. PAGAN 9JA: LOL! Black Centrism?? Yeah more desperation...Post PEER REVIWED sources that debunked mines. Dingleberry.. PAGAN 9JA:Silly dingleberry. Tuareg females carry high frequencies of European mtDNA H. Tuaregs are basically the result of European women and African men. Again Tuareg men took many European and Middle Eastern women. http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0013378 You dont even know anything about the Tuaregs as much as you claim. SIT DOWN and stop trying to debate me with your broken argument. PAGAN 9JA: You haven't provided me with squat! Yet I proven that Tuaregs in West African countries carry MORE Berber E-M81 than Tuaregs in North African countries. Get lost already. You're not on my level PAGAN 9JA: Nobody aint dodging sh*t when you clearly dodged this. Dingleberry those are NOT cave paintings, but paintings from temples. This shows you dont know the argument. Dude those are deceptions of the ANCIENT LIBYAN BERBERS. Do you have piss poor reading comprehension? And I'm not bringing Egyptians into this. PAGAN 9JA: Prove it...Like I said Tuaregs DONT have an agreement on a common origin and even Fulaman knows this but you. You're not a Tuareg but a Hausa. Stop trying to be the spokes person for Tuaregs when you're not even well versed on this subject. PAGAN 9JA: IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU FREAKING BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop trying to put YOUR views on a higher pedestal over well known historians who ACTUALLY seen the people. PAGAN 9JA:Doesn't matter...Almost all historians agree that Tuaregs are the descendants of the Garamantes. Get over it. PAGAN 9JA: More moot points that dont disprove anything. PAGAN 9JA:More moot points/opinions/projection. Never doubted the slavery of Songhay people, but the European slavery overshadowed it. And Tuaregs in Libya were referred to as blacks during the civil war. Everyone knows that. PAGAN 9JA:No one is biased what you. You still have not posted any facts backing up your claims. Just random ramblings. So I'm going to ignore most it, like you ignored all my peer reviewed sources. PAGAN 9JA: More worthless moot points/ramblings that dont refute/debunk anything. Your doing a good job. Also...Niger Tuaregs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDDXI8pvtrY PAGAN 9JA:Its called backing up your claims which you know nothing about. And no they get their sources FROM the historians/anthropologist. So again futile points that dont save your argument. PAGAN 9JA: No that was to show you how advanced the Garamantes were and stop putting words in my mouth. 1 Like |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Dibiachukwu: 2:07am On Nov 25, 2013 |
Food for thought. If I conquered you and killed your fathers, do you really believe I will tell you the truth? How come afro-centrists love quoting white people. This is a stinking dilemma that would put every well weaned man off |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Fulaman198(m): 2:30am On Nov 25, 2013 |
It still happens today, white women seem to like black men. They like Fulani, Songhai(Zarma), Toubou, etc. They seem to come to Africa to learn more about the culture I guess it fascinates them. There are even some white women who have children from African fathers on this forum today. Correct that there is no such thing as a pure Touareg. The Berber groups in Morocco are ever less Berber. I don't even think they speak their language. They only speak Arabic mainly. A lot of Amaizghen have mixed with Romans and Greeks in Morocco. 1 Like |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Nobody: 2:30am On Nov 25, 2013 |
PAGAN 9JA: Sorry but PEER REVIEWED FACTS>>>>>>>YOUR OPINION. Your denial is showing more and more. Which is sad. Tisk Tisk. No...YOU'RE the one diverting. You were the one that said Nubians were never nomads and that the nomadic lifestyle was brought to them. Nubians are were ALWAYS nomads and some still are. But it doesnt matter bbecause your opinions dont mean anything. PAGAN 9JA:Um...Did you not read where it said the Romans recorded them as Nomads. Seriously stop with the denial and desperation. PAGAN 9JA: More irrelevant stuff that doesn't prove anything. You cant even do simple research which is sad. PAGAN 9JA:No they meant the darker skin Indians like Dravidian/Tamils. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9gqKjMom0w&list=PLAAE22866E89E457D I already told you Ethiopian meant BURNT SKIN! No one is contradicting themselves. Its just that your an idiot. PAGAN 9JA: More moot/futile desperate attempts. Why don't YOU bring forth your sources that DEBUNK mines! I'll wait(again)... PAGAN 9JA: LOL! No one is shooting themselves in the foot. Stop saying that when you havent even back up any of you broken claims. And sgain stop putting words in my mouth dingleberry. I NEVER said Libyan Tuaregs were the purest Tuaregs. I dont use pseudo-science terms like 'pure' like you do. I said Libya has high numbers of dark skin ones. Prove that Libyan Tuaregs are slave descendants. I DARE YOU. With sources. I have continued you to punk and debunk you while you couldnt even do a darn thing. Meanwhile Algerian Tuaregs carry LESS Berber E-M81, while 'West African' Tuaregs like those from Mali and Burkina Faso carry E-M81 around 70-80%. SIT DOWN! PAGAN 9JA: lol...Using Kabylia that are obviously descendants of Europeans by just looking at their clothing which as BALKAN INFLUENCE!!! Dude those 'colonial drawings' are drawings by people who actually SAW the early Kabylia. Your opinion against there's. No one even said the Kaybylia were black, again stop putting words in my mouth. Europeans were absorbed into the Kabylia after the Moorish were expelled and European slavery! http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/mar/10/20040310-115506-8528r/ There mtDNA even proves my point. Do some research...You will never find white looking Berbers prior to the 15/16th century and thats a fact! There are still some African Kabylia among them today! Show me historic records of white looking Berbers prior to the 15/16th century. I'll wait. PAGAN 9JA: There is no conspiracy. Again my sources>>>>>>>Your opinions. Stop acting like your opinions are above known FACTS and people who ACTUALLY SAW THEM. There are still African Kayblia among them. [img]http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/ic&CISOPTR=650&DMSCALE=100.00000&DMWIDTH=802&DMHEIGHT=1302.2164948454&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&REC=5&DMTHUMB=0&DMROTATE=0[/img] I hope you know slavery of Europeans and Europeans taken to North Africa continued on well until the 18th century!!! Done by these people. Now wheres your sources? PAGAN 9JA: You just deflated your argument...Which proves my point(and Fulaman) that not all agree on there origins. Thank you. Now dont ignore this. |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Fulaman198(m): 2:30am On Nov 25, 2013 |
Dibiachukwu: Food for thought. If I conquered you and killed your fathers, do you really believe I will tell you the truth? How come afro-centrists love quoting white people. This is a stinking dilemma that would put every well weaned man off Don't you think you are being very hypocritical? |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Nobody: 2:33am On Nov 25, 2013 |
Fulaman198: lol...He so desperately for some reason wants to make ALL the darker skinned Tuaregs the result of slavery(yet Tuaregs actually had more European slaves). He has not even posted any sources+links backing up his claims, while ignoring the sources+links I posted and saying their 'random'. He thinks his opinions are above historians and peer reviewed sources. Yet calls me a blackcentric, while he is the one with the agenda. He's a funny character. |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Fulaman198(m): 2:34am On Nov 25, 2013 |
KidStranglehold: Yeah, please read all the comments I made as well. |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Nobody: 2:35am On Nov 25, 2013 |
Fulaman198: I did. Like I said his goal is to make all black looking Tuaregs descendant of slaves. |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Nobody: 2:42am On Nov 25, 2013 |
Fulaman198: It still happens today, white women seem to like black men. They like Fulani, Songhai(Zarma), Toubou, etc. They seem to come to Africa to learn more about the culture I guess it fascinates them. There are even some white women who have children from African fathers on this forum today. I agree there is no such thing as pure Tuareg!! Or a pure Berber!!! 'Pure' seems to be PAGAN9 favorite word, when Berber is only a LANGUAGE GROUP. The only thing Berbers share with each other is language and thats it. Everything else is different. Berbers from the coast are mainly of European origin and you can see it. Most of their traditions/clothing is not even originally Berber but European influence. Just look at the European influenced clothing this women is wearing!!! [img]http://b.imdoc.fr/1/divers/tenues-kabyles-traditionnelles/photo/9158525915/20317113ed7/tenues-kabyles-traditionnelles-kabyle-fille-hameaux-img.jpg[/img] Balkans Coincidence? Meanwhile the early Berbers most likely dressed something like this. [img]http://lestizis.free.fr/Divers-1900/Scenes-Types/Types-Kabyles/slides/Jeunes-Filles-Kabyles-01.jpg[/img] Or this being unclad. 1 Like |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Fulaman198(m): 2:46am On Nov 25, 2013 |
KidStranglehold: Which would be very wrong and euro-centric. Tuaregs never defeated the Songhai in battle. Therefore, they never enslaved them. If anything, it is probably vice versa in Mali. A lot of Songhai are actually probably Tuareg, because once defeated they were integrated into Songhai culture |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Nobody: 2:53am On Nov 25, 2013 |
Fulaman198: Actually both you and him are right. Tuaregs like many Berbers were under the THUMB of Western Sudanic empires like the Ghana, Mali and Songhai. And the Tuaregs always worked under the Songhai Empire always doing their bitting and always working trade/being soldiers. But he is right that recently that Tuaregs do have Songhai slaves, but it is small scale that it is not even noticeable and the slavery is not even not even the type of slavery say those of the USA. And I heard their slaves can even buy their freedom. What PAGAN9 forgets to mention that Tuaregs(along with almost everyone during the medieval era) had European slaves specifically those from Europe. Also read my recent post above... |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Fulaman198(m): 2:58am On Nov 25, 2013 |
KidStranglehold: The slavery in Africa was never anything like slavery in the new world. Slaves were like indentured servants who were victims of war. |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Fulaman198(m): 2:59am On Nov 25, 2013 |
Btw, good post |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Nobody: 3:09am On Nov 25, 2013 |
@Fulaman Yes Fulaman African slavery was completely different and less harsh. And thanks. Oh and there is one more thing I forgot to mention. Like I said the majority of the slaves taken during medieval times(and up to the 18th century) were Europeans, BUT Eastern European slavs. Remember slave comes from the word slav. Coincidence? But let me go on more....What PAGAN9 keeps forgetting is that a lot of Eastern European Slavs ended up in North Africa and I mean a lot. They even ended up in the hands of Tuaregs, empires like Mali and even all the way down to Cameroon. Its true...Eastern European slaves especially women were in HIGH demand. Also can clearly see the Eastern European/Balkan slavic influence on these Kabylia girls clothing. People from Balkans. Its so OBVIOUS! Its all because p*mp daddy E-M81...These people. Had a thing for mtDNA H which are these people. [img]http://abagond.files./2011/03/petra.jpg[/img] Which resulted to this! Yep...Mister E-M81 had to many white wimminz for his own good. That explains the whole story of modern day North Africans in a nutshell. 1 Like |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Dibiachukwu: 3:42am On Nov 25, 2013 |
Fulaman198:not at all. |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Dibiachukwu: 3:48am On Nov 25, 2013 |
The funny part is that the sword of famine has already been set. And the big stage is probably Nigeria. One mistake can have dire consequences. It is all about balancing the evil forces. It is going to fail. Nations shall fight agains nations. Kingdoms against kingdoms. The children of the most high would be triumphant this time. |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Nobody: 4:36am On Nov 25, 2013 |
I've actually been wondering all along if it's accurate to say that there were no 'white-looking' people in North Africa before the Spanish Reconquista in the 15th century. It seems we are forgetting one earlier period in history when the area was overrun by German tribesmen (the Vandals) soon after the fall of Rome in the 5th century. I really doubt that those Nordic Germans didn't leave any phenotypic mark. It also seems to me rather odd that blond hair and blue eyes occur in the Berber population more frequently among the Kabyles and the Riffians who occupy mountainous and not easily accessible terrains. Now the relative inaccessibility of those areas suggest to me that we are probably dealing with very ancient communities here. I don't think the Christian Spaniards kicked the Moors so hard that they not only fled back to Africa, but went up difficult mountain passes even after they've reached the safety of Morocco. I think the expelled Moors remained in lowlying cities like Marrakesh, etc and continued the civilized lives they knew in Spain. Highland-dwelling Berbers like the Kabyle and the Rif Berbers IMO represent an older subset of Berber culture among whom blond hair and non-black, non-brown eyes weren't entirely unknown. I have encountered references from classical (Greek and Roman) writers who remarked on blond hair and green eyes among certain Libyan (ie, Berber) tribesmen in antiquity.This would mean that those physical traits were present in North Africa even before the Vandal conquest. Ancient Egyptians, as well, depicted Libyans as light-skinned. Much lighter skinned than themselves. I'm far from suggesting that North Africa was another Scandinavia. But my theory is that North Africa was peopled by the same wave of migrations that peopled Southern Europe, especially the Iberian Peninsula. And the presence (indeed the predominance) of a basically Eurasian stock in North Africa goes farther back than the 15th or the 5th century. Immigration of Afro-Asiatic East Africans brought the proto-Berber language. And of course interbreeding with 'subsaharan' peoples (they probably weren't all that 'sub-saharan' back then) has been an age old phenomenon. |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Fulaman198(m): 4:38am On Nov 25, 2013 |
KidStranglehold: @Fulaman Very nice information |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Nobody: 5:15am On Nov 25, 2013 |
@Fulaman Thanks. |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Nobody: 5:33am On Nov 25, 2013 |
Radoillo: I've actually been wondering all along if it's accurate to say that there were no 'white-looking' people in North Africa before the Spanish Reconquista in the 15th century. The Vandal population of North Africa was quite small. Not only that but Vandals differentiated themselves between the native Berbers. Just look up "Was White Beautiful in Vandal Africa?". Also Blond hair is extremely fair in Berbers/North Africans. Trust me....Many North Africans will tell you that the European looking ones with blond hair and the stereotypical African looking ones are a rare minority. Must Northwest Africans look like this. This North African girl I knew looked something like this. Not saying that there were no non Africans in Northwest Africa before the Moorish were expelled, but the BULK of them came from that and thats where we official see white looking Berber tribes. Before that NO non African group...Repeat NO non African group claim to be Berber. Again there is no sources of non African Berber groups prior to the 15/16th century. Yes there obviously were non Africans in Northwest Africa prior to the 15/16th century, but they never claimed to be Berber. Also you have to understand that both Rif Berbers and Kabyle Berbers are recent Berber groups, but they were originally African(just see the pictures I posted of the Rif Berber pirates and old photos of Kabyle). As for the Libyans...You're talking about the sea people who came MUCH later and were still a minority who assimilated into the Ancient Libyans. The Romans and Greeks always referred to the Ancient Libyans as Ethiopians, I even posted that to PAGAN. Also you can see my photos of how the Ancient Libyans were depicted. The white Libyans were a small and recent group descendants from the sea people. As for the mountains...You have to note this...Mountians like the rif were actually barriers to outsiders than the local population. Rif Region http://www.marokko-info.nl/english/landscape-of-morocco/ The Rif Remember the Almoravid Berber dynasty and other Berbers which controlled Iberia actually came from the Senegal river AKA the south and not from the highlands. Most of the foreign populations remained at the coast, since it's hard to enter beyond the Rif and dessert. Which only indigenous Nomadic pastoral populations are familiar with, such as the Tuareg, Fula and other Berber groups. Anyways this should help explain things easily. " During historic times, Berbers experienced a long and complicated history with many invasions, conquests, and migrations by Phoenicians, Romans, Vandals, Byzantines, Arabs, Bedouins, Spanish, Turks, Andalusians, sub-Saharans (communities settled in Jerba and Gabes in the 16th–19th centuries), and French (Brett and Fentress 1996). During these invasions, Berbers were forced back to the mountains and to certain villages in southern Tunisia (Fadhlaoui-Zid et al. 2004)." Again I am not denying Non Africans in North Africa prior to the 15/16th century. But specifically non African Berber...Because we really do not start seeing white looking Berber groups prior to the 15/16th century. |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by macof(m): 10:24am On Nov 25, 2013 |
And this thread started wit Ijebu |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Nobody: 11:03am On Nov 25, 2013 |
macof: And this thread started wit Ijebu And Jebusites/Canaanites |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by ladionline: 11:46am On Nov 26, 2013 |
Radoillo: And the pics of all the races of the world descended and feast on it |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by Nobody: 2:19pm On Nov 26, 2013 |
ladionline: Hey, u gotta admit it was kinda fun. |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by ladionline: 8:00pm On Nov 27, 2013 |
Radoillo:Of course i'm proud to be part of it, it was the undying regal spirit at work. The charm or Ijebu aura is most powerful. Though I'm lost a long while ago, having fun with the pop corn dude while y'all at dagger drawn. |
Re: Ijebu: Jebusites? What A Myth! by davidoluyemo: 6:01am On Oct 15, 2015 |
Radoillo: I wanted to contribute something here. These are statements made by portuguese and english explorers. The portuguese said that Ijebu people were Jewish in their business practices.The english explorer Clapperton said the sultan of Sokoto described all Yoruba as descended from the Nimrod(Lamurudu) tribe of Canaan. Daura in Katsina is supposed to be the name of a Canaanite princess. Besides this, most of the major west African tribes that i have researched have stories of moving from the north because of the encroaching desert or Muslim. invaders. These are in history books. We don't have to believe them. But these are the stories that your forefathers told the first whitemen that came to these lands. |
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