Candour:

Remember i didn't suggest you go to the dictionary to help me get the meaning of ordinance right? If you're rejecting what you posted yourself, it will be entirely your choice.

Ok,neither did i say you did.

Do you remember posting this below? pay particular attention to the bolded portion you highlighted yourself.



What does it mean if not that no more penalties for breaking the law? Your own words are that penalties for breaking the law are wiped out.[size=16pt] I dont run foul of the law today simply because my new nature abhors works for the flesh.[/size]

If tithing is a good thing and not doing it is sin, how about feast of weeks? feast of first fruits? feasts of trumpets? grain offerings etc?

The penalties are wiped out through the acceptance of the sacrifice of Christ. You re trying too hard to take my statement in isolation. If you keeping committing sin by breaking the law, you are literary saying by your actions, that the sacrifice of Christ is of no value. Your old nature is always at war with the new.Infact you are not there yet so stop telling us lies here.As for the others you know my stand on tithes. I don"t tithe based on the law. I tithe based on faith and what the Holy spirit told me.So i follow the leading and obedience of the Holy Spirit using scripture to validate it.God does nothing except by His Spirit and word and they both agree.Concerning the feasts you talked about i can glean spiritual types and principles by the help of the Holy Spirit without literary reading them like you do here. They were not written in the bible for show but for us.

Everybody knows you can't speak Greek or Latin so you dont have to remind me. Your explanations here have no correlation with what i wrote or what is in Collosians 2:13-14. If you can't explain it, i won't press you.

Very funny fellow,why twist my words.I said i did not write it in Greek and Latin,i did not say i can't speak Greek and Latin.Do you know whether i have been taking lessons in Greek and Latin As for whether everybody knows speak for yourself abeg, not on behalf of everybody.You are not God so you don"t know peoples heart. . Ok suit yourself based in your explanations. i rest my case like all the others.

We all know Paul was inspired by God which is why his epistles form part of scripture today.

Was Malachi and Moses not inspired by the same God?

So what is the context in which Paul penned 1Tim 2:9 and 1Tim 2:11-12? Maybe you might then be able to explain the context of tithes which you accuse us of narrowing

I don't know, you can ask your God.As for the tithes you refused to answer my question.I initially asked you to show me the scripture where tithe was abolished in the NT.So far you have failed to answer it. You are free to quote my answers on the tithes from other numerous tithe threads that abound on nairaland.Cheers.

Bidam: Ok,neither did i say you did.

ok

The penalties are wiped out through the acceptance of the sacrifice of Christ. You re trying too hard to take my statement in isolation. If you keeping committing sin by breaking the law, you are literary saying by your actions, that the sacrifice of Christ is of no value.

This has always been my anthem hence my mantraa GRACE IS NOT LICENSE I'm sure you've heard me say that maybe a million times on NL?

Your old nature is always at war with the new.Infact you are not there yet so stop telling us lies here.

Actually I always preach that we are saved but as long as we are in this body of flesh, we are prone to occasionally falling but the Spirit of God in us always restores us back. I don't claim perfection. If my statement looked like claiming perfection, then know that its not intended to be.

Rather you might be the liar here because you're the champion at calling people LAWLESS FOLKS. Do you remember? If you now believe like we do that the old nature is always at war with the new and likely to trip you, then let your new stance be made public.

As for the others you know my stand on tithes. [b]I don"t tithe based on the law. I tithe based on faith and what the Holy spirit told me.[/b]So i follow the leading and obedience of the Holy Spirit using scripture to validate it.God does nothing except by His Spirit and word and they both agree.Concerning the feasts you talked about i can glean spiritual types and principles by the help of the Holy Spirit without literary reading them like you do here. They were not written in the bible for show but for us.

If it's by faith and the holy spirit told you expressly, why tell me i sin because i don't tithe? Have you asked me if the Holy Spirit told me not to tithe? Do you give first fruits? Do you know its also a feast?

So what principles might be gleaned from those feasts?

Very funny fellow,why twist my words.I said i did not write it in Greek and Latin,i did not say i can't speak Greek and Latin.Do you know whether i have been taking lessons in Greek and Latin As for whether everybody knows speak for yourself abeg, not on behalf of everybody.You are not God so you don"t know peoples heart. . Ok suit yourself based in your explanations. i rest my case like all the others.

Really?? you do speak Greek and Latin?? Thank God for you o. I didn't know some people even knew. my apologies then.

Was Malachi and Moses not inspired by the same God?

Yes they were

I don't know, you can ask your God.As for the tithes you refused to answer my question.I initially asked you to show me the scripture where tithe was abolished in the NT.So far you have failed to answer it. You are free to quote my answers on the tithes from other numerous tithe threads that abound on nairaland.Cheers.

Thank God you admitted you don't know. There's no where i was asked to tithe in the new testament so i don't.

cheers

frosbel:

You contradict yourself, one minute you say the law is abolished ( which includes the tithe by the way ) ,and the next minute you are preaching the law of tithe.

Which one is it, LAW or GRACE ?

Brother,but you should know that the "law of moses" referred to as the law is not the source of tithing even though it was institutionalised in it along with other levies required from the people.

anukulapo:
Brother,but you should know that the "law of moses" referred to as the law is not the source of tithing even though it was institutionalised in it along with other levies required from the people.

Abeg help me tell them o. I don preach this thing so tay i don tire for nairaland. Tithes predates mosaic Law AND WAS REGULATED UNDER THE LAW. CHRISTIANS TITHE BY FAITH AND NOT BECAUSE THE LAW SAYS SO.

Ok i don hear you sir.

Candour:

ok







This has always been my anthem hence my mantraa GRACE IS NOT LICENSE I'm sure you've heard me say that maybe a million times on NL?



Actually I always preach that we are saved but as long as we are in this body of flesh, we are prone to occasionally falling but the Spirit of God in us always restores us back. I don't claim perfection. If my statement looked like claiming perfection, then know that its not intended to be.

Rather you might be the liar here because you're the champion at calling people LAWLESS FOLKS. Do you remember? If you now believe like we do that the old nature is always at war with the new and likely to trip you, then let your new stance be made public.



If it's by faith and the holy spirit told you expressly, why tell me i sin because i don't tithe? Have you asked me if the Holy Spirit told me not to tithe? Do you give first fruits? Do you know its also a feast?

So what principles might be gleaned from those feasts?









Really?? you do speak Greek and Latin?? Thank God for you o. I didn't know some people even knew. my apologies then.







Yes they were






Thank God you admitted you don't know. There's no where i was asked to tithe in the new testament so i don't.

cheers

anukulapo:
Brother,but you should know that the "law of moses" referred to as the law is not the source of tithing even though it was institutionalised in it along with other levies required from the people.

Bidam: Abeg help me tell them o. I don preach this thing so tay i don tire for nairaland. Tithes predates mosaic Law AND WAS REGULATED UNDER THE LAW. CHRISTIANS TITHE BY FAITH AND NOT BECAUSE THE LAW SAYS SO.

Question: Did God institutionalized Abraham kind of tithe IN THE LAW? That's, the law tithing and Abraham tithe, ARE THE THE SAME IN CONTENT AND COMMANDMENTS?

Goshen360:



Question: Did God institutionalized Abraham kind of tithe IN THE LAW? That's, the law tithing and Abraham tithe, ARE THE THE SAME IN CONTENT AND COMMANDMENTS?

Who is a believer? Is a christian different from a believer? Your answer to who you are according to scriptures will address your question on Abraham.Thanks.

Goshen360:



Question: Did God institutionalized Abraham kind of tithe IN THE LAW? That's, the law tithing and Abraham tithe, ARE THE THE SAME IN CONTENT AND COMMANDMENTS?

You are right bro Gosh in as much as you agree that there is the Abraham's kinda tithe though it is diff by the method of application in the law of moses.
It was not left to the people's discretion in Moses but as a levy because it was God's social welfare system for the levites (who were full time ministers and didn't get land inheritance), the widows, orphans and strangers.
However,we must admit that its origin is not the law.
Just as the commandment to love is part of the mosaic law(and even regarded as the greatest commandment in the law by our lord Jesus) and it is also the hanger of the new covenant, thus tithing is pre-law, in the law, in the dispensation of grace also.
Shalom!

^^^

It still baffles me how some people on this forum try to make a doctrine out of Abraham's one off voluntary act of tithing another person's property, then twist and panel beat it to mean that christians must tithe of their regular monthly income. I still don't see the correlation

Bidam: Who is a believer? Is a christian different from a believer? Your answer to who you are according to scriptures will address your question on Abraham.Thanks.

Don't prove to everyone you not capable of answering some intelligent simple question o. We have TWO examples of tithing here now - BEFORE THE LAW AS IN CASE WITH ABRAHAM. Then, the law tithing. Are both of them the SAME even though they both called tithe, my question was born when you people keep saying, the Abraham tithe WAS LATER INSTITUTED UNDER THE LAW. THEN, WHERE DOES THE LAW COMMANDED TITHE FROM SPOILS OF WAR....IF IT WAS ABRAHAM TITHE THAT WAS LATER INSTITUTED IN THE LAW?

anukulapo:

You are right bro Gosh in as much as you agree that there is the Abraham's kinda tithe though it is diff by the method of application in the law of moses.
It was not left to the people's discretion in Moses but as a levy because it was God's social welfare system for the levites (who were full time ministers and didn't get land inheritance), the widows, orphans and strangers.

However,we must admit that its origin is not the law.
Just as the commandment to love is part of the mosaic law(and even regarded as the greatest commandment in the law by our lord Jesus) and it is also the hanger of the new covenant, thus tithing is pre-law, in the law, in the dispensation of grace also.
Shalom!

It's like saying a house doesn't originated from a foundation. If the tithe under the law does not originated from the Abraham tithe, it cannot be referenced just like Jesus wasn't referring to Abraham tithe under the law, Malachi wasn't reminding and cursing based on Abraham tithe example, it was all reference to the law tithe, why?

Alwaystrue:
You see, since Jesus, the Word Of God that came in flesh full of Grace and Truth, came to explain how we should tithe and you still don't get it, neither Paul's explanation by the Spirit, my words will not help either.

there's nothing to get. Nowhere in scriptures will you find Jesus teaching tithing to Christians. Maybe you are telling us that it was Jesus that taught 10% of salary (including the payment of tithe of income from prostitution, robbery, money ritual e.t.c), I guess it was Jesus that taught Christians to tithe their allowance (aka pocket money). I honestly don't know what you are reading cos the reference to Paul is not an attempt to explain Christ tithe teachings.

Gombs:
Ok, why do you fight tithing?

this is proof you have not been reading my posts. I am not fighting the giving of 10% of 'watever' to the church/pastor (aka Tithing'). I believe people have the right to do 'watever' they like with their money, after all it's their money.

Goshen360:

Don't prove to everyone you not capable of answering some intelligent simple question o. We have TWO examples of tithing here now - BEFORE THE LAW AS IN CASE WITH ABRAHAM. Then, the law tithing. Are both of them the SAME even though they both called tithe, my question was born when you people keep saying, the Abraham tithe WAS LATER INSTITUTED UNDER THE LAW. THEN, WHERE DOES THE LAW COMMANDED TITHE FROM SPOILS OF WAR....IF IT WAS ABRAHAM TITHE THAT WAS LATER INSTITUTED IN THE LAW?



It's like saying a house doesn't originated from a foundation. If the tithe under the law does not originated from the Abraham tithe, it cannot be referenced just like Jesus wasn't referring to Abraham tithe under the law, Malachi wasn't reminding and cursing based on Abraham tithe example, it was all reference to the law tithe, why?

You answered the question in your post already. Under the law,it was DEMANDED but Abraham "gave" without being asked to.
Like saying it was recorded that Jesus administered passover meal with his disciples only once so what do we eat it often (yea,I know Luke recorded that he asked his disciples to do it in remembrance of him)?
Though Abraham paid it just once and from spoils of war it doesn't follow that (even under the law) any tithe payer must only pay from spoils of war.
It is the act/practice that was adapted not the pattern of the first practice.

Zikkyy:

there's nothing to get. Nowhere in scriptures will you find Jesus teaching tithing to Christians. Maybe you are telling us that it was Jesus that taught 10% of salary (including the payment of tithe of income from prostitution, robbery, money ritual e.t.c), I guess it was Jesus that taught Christians to tithe their allowance (aka pocket money). I honestly don't know what you are reading cos the reference to Paul is not an attempt to explain Christ tithe teachings.

All Jesus words had people that BELIEVED Him, 'Christian' was a word used by some people to call Believers just like we have people call Believers 'SU'. All the play of words does not change the fact that it was Jesus words spoken to the hearing of all.
You have chosen not to believe it so relax.

Lol, will believers of Jesus be prostitutes, ritualists, robbers in the first place? Sorry don't mix church-goers with believers of Jesus. All those people you mentioned above would also give to the poor, does that make it right? No. So you have no case again.
You have said you believe anyone can do whatever with their money, so leave them to do it. Stop saying and not doing.

Alwaystrue:

All Jesus words had people that BELIEVED Him, 'Christian' was a word used by some people to call Believers just like we have people call Believers 'SU'. All the play of words does not change the fact that it was Jesus words spoken to the hearing of all.
You have chosen not to believe it so relax.

my sister it is one thing to believe and it is another thing to adopt or implement. We all believed what we read (I know I do, if I cannot speak for others). I am not arguing belief here so you wrong to say I do not believe. Did Jesus say Christians should or must implement all statement directed at the Pharisees? Did he say how this was to implemented? Was it Jesus that converted tithe of agric produce to cash from whatever? Or was it Jesus that said it must be taken to the pastor? What exactly did Jesus say?

Alwaystrue:
Lol, will believers of Jesus be prostitutes, ritualists, robbers in the first place? Sorry don't mix church-goers with believers of Jesus. All those people you mentioned above would also give to the poor, does that make it right? No. So you have no case again.

don't blame me ma, reference to prostitutes and robbers is not my fault. Pastor is yet to tell us that prostitute, robbers, ritualists, corrupt politicians, blood or fraudulently obtained money are not tithe-able. Everything goes into the same tithe box/bag no segregation, pastor prays for all tithers including robbers, prostitute e.t.c., pastor's sermon on tithe is addressed to all, in fact some peeps been telling us that tithing is a kingdom principle applicable to all. So how can you say I have no case?

anukulapo:
You answered the question in your post already. Under the law,it was DEMANDED but Abraham "gave" without being asked to.
Like saying it was recorded that Jesus administered passover meal with his disciples only once so what do we eat it often (yea,I know Luke recorded that he asked his disciples to do it in remembrance of him)?
Though Abraham paid it just once and from spoils of war it doesn't follow that (even under the law) any tithe payer must only pay from spoils of war.
It is the act/practice that was adapted not the pattern of the first practice.

Either it's from war or from farm one thing is clear , it's a blessing from God , and we honor God with his tithe . Why 10%? We will ask God in heaven. It doesn't matter the structure by which tithe is given. One thing is clear tithe belong to God.

It's like someone saying Jesus sweated in prayer at the hour of temptation and we must not sweat in prayer except at the hour of temptation only. It doesn't make sense . Abraham didn't give his tithe because of war. It's not a war obligation . He have tithes on profit or income , Jacob gave tithes on profit and income . He didn't fight war. He learnt it. From Abraham .The fact that we have only one record of Abraham tithing doesn't mean he tithed only once. He tithed immediately he got the gain. It must have been a practice . But since we don't have other records we dwell on the one we have.

There's never a single scripture where God ever spoke against tithing . If God didn't end it as well as fasting and offerings and other spiritual obligations , no man has the right to do so. If you believe in tithing continue in it and if you don't , stop insulting the tithers for their faith . You can't impose your belief by harrasing others for their convictions.

Alwaystrue:
You have said you believe anyone can do whatever with their money, so leave them to do it. Stop saying and not doing.

do you read me saying tithers should do away with their tithing practice? I don't think so. I respond to tithe sermons and any post that serves the purpose. This is a public forum if you want me to leave you alone, you should log out.

Zikkyy:

my sister it is one thing to believe and it is another thing to adopt or implement. We all believed what we read (I know I do, if I cannot speak for others). I am not arguing belief here so you wrong to say I do not believe. Did Jesus say Christians should or must implement all statement directed at the Pharisees? Did he say how this was to implemented? Was it Jesus that converted tithe of agric produce to cash from whatever? Or was it Jesus that said it must be taken to the pastor? What exactly did Jesus say?

Why ate you asking me what Jesus said? You have a bible don't you? If you don't believer what Jesus said, and cannot understand what Paul said, I said I can't help you. You must think I will answer questions already answered countless times here. There is no need, it doesn't change anything with you. So be sure of what you believe, I believe mine without having to ask such questions...

Zikkyy:
don't blame me ma, reference to prostitutes and robbers is not my fault. Pastor is yet to tell us that prostitute, robbers, ritualists, corrupt politicians, blood or fraudulently obtained money are not tithe-able. Everything goes into the same tithe box/bag no segregation, pastor prays for all tithers including robbers, prostitute e.t.c., pastor's sermon on tithe is addressed to all, in fact some peeps been telling us that tithing is a kingdom principle applicable to all. So how can you say I have no case?

Yes, the same sermon preached by pastors on godly living is heard by all these people, teaching against robbery, prostitution, ritualism. Offerings, tithes, other donations are dropped by these people not just tithe so like I said you have no point. Even you might have received gift before 'unknowingly' from such people. Any giving even with the wrong heart is not honourable.
God is the judge of which giving He will accept like Abel's and those he will reject like Cain's so stop trying to help God.
That is all I have to say to you on this.
Thank you.

Even if tithing never existed before the law . If it originated under the law and someone believes in it . It is not the headache of another person . Just as the sabbath . Some follow sabbath others don't . No need to persecute another for their faith.

Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another:another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Some Christians don't believe in fasting . They believe all works ended with christ . We don't need to labour in fasting . It's their belief . Me I dey fast well well but I won't start attacking others . It's the Holy Spirit that opens everyone eyes. You that is judging and insulting what makes you so sure that your doctrine is not the poison? Let's all humble ourselves .

Joagbaje:
Abraham didn't give his tithe because of war. It's not a war obligation . He have tithes on profit or income , Jacob gave tithes on profit and income.

joagbaje, war is now a business transaction with profit? What was the gross income and tell us the expenses incurred by Abraham and deducted from his war income before arriving at war profit. So you are saying Abraham gave tenth of profit to Melchizedek, nothing we no hear/read for nairaland.

So Jacob also gave tenth of profit? Joagbaje what are reading? Can you prove that Jacob gave a tenth (tithe)? Also provide info regarding the priest/pastor that received Jacob's tithe.

Zikkyy:

joagbaje, war is now a business transaction with profit? What was the gross income and tell us the expenses incurred by Abraham and deducted from his war income before arriving at war profit. So you are saying Abraham gave tenth of profit to Melchizedek, nothing we no hear/read for nairaland.

Either it comes as gift or come as harvest or come as income . It's Gods Favour . And we owe him tithe in appreciation to recognize his lordship over our income. And that he is the source . When we give God his tithe it's now left for us to do whatever with the rest. But for ABRAHAM here , he gave the rest back to the king. And that's by choice .

So Jacob also gave tenth of profit? Joagbaje what are reading? Can you prove that Jacob gave a tenth (tithe)? Also provide info regarding the priest/pastor that received Jacob's tithe.

Are you saying that the patriarch Jacob lied to GOD? You guys should stop capitalizing on the blind spots of the bible. Any one who knows scripture well knows that God doesn't play with vows. He even reminded Jacob about it several years later to go back to bethel where he made the vow. Which priest took his tithe is not our business . It's only excuse makers that looks for such.

Alwaystrue:
Yes, the same sermon preached by pastors on godly living is heard by all these people, teaching against robbery, prostitution, ritualism. Offerings, tithes, other donations are dropped by these people not just tithe so like I said you have no point.

we are talking about income from ungodly living. Am yet to hear a sermon that says tithe & offerings from ungodly source is not acceptable.

Alwaystrue:
God is the judge of which giving He will accept like Abel's and those he will reject like Cain's so stop trying to help God.

is this the message from ya favorite Mathew 23:23? Is this the teaching you say you believe? Was Christ telling the Pharisees in Mathews 23 that God will decide the offering he will accept or was he telling them to do the right thing? When you say am trying to help God, what about pastors and peeps preaching and giving their views/opinions? Are they helping themselves? Maybe they are.

BTW, when I post questions, it is not for you to answer (unless you feel like responding), it's just something for you & other readers to think about. If I want an answer it will be expressly stated in my post along with the question. Thanks for taking time to answer some.

Joagbaje:
Some Christians don't believe in fasting . They believe all works ended with christ . We don't need to labour in fasting . It's their belief . Me I dey fast well well but I won't start attacking others . It's the Holy Spirit that opens everyone eyes.

this is what I meant when I say that tithe is not preach-able. You cannot force your belief or views on others. Why encourage people to give 10% when they can give more?

Joagbaje:
Are you saying that the patriarch Jacob lied to GOD? You guys should stop capitalizing on the blind spots of the bible. Any one who knows scripture well knows that God doesn't play with vows. He even reminded Jacob about it several years later to go back to bethel where he made the vow. Which priest took his tithe is not our business . It's only excuse makers that looks for such.

nobody capitalizing on blind spot, its wrong to build your sermon on assumptions and expect peeps to accept it as truth. You want us to forget bout the priest yet you tell us that wherever there is a priest, there must be tithe.

knowing the priest that collected Jacob's tithe will prove that Jacob tithes. We can also say Jacob tithing in the absence of a priest means tithe can be paid in the absence of a pastor, abi?

Joagbaje:

Is the law bad ? The law contains vital kingdom principles which can be used for illustrations and references . Didn't paul quote the law many times. "Honor thy father " is it not in the law? Why would paul quote the law to the church? Why is it tithing satan fight ? It only shows that there's something very significant about tithing .

1. Used for illustrations and references, yes. But taught as a way of life under the NEW COVENANT, no.
2. The same God, yes. Certain similar principles, yes. But quite a different system for living and administering the spiritual life. That a practice is in the Bible does not necessarily recommend it to be used or practiced by the Christian. The Christian must rightly divide whether such a practice is for him or not under the new Covenant. For example, the Bible, in the Old Testament has requirements for animal sacrifices and so on. Would anyone therefore justify animal sacrifice today simply on the basis that it is in the Bible?

Joagbaje:

There's never a single scripture where God ever spoke against tithing .

Is there a single scripture where God spoke against animal sacrifices in the temple?

Zikkyy:

this is what I meant when I say that tithe is not preach-able. You cannot force your belief or views on others. Why encourage people to give 10% when they can give more?

Is honoring your father and mother not preach able ? Is fasting not peaceable . You preach what you believe. Especially if you have bible backing or foundation for it the application gets results.

trustman:

Is there a single scripture where God spoke against animal sacrifices in the temple?

The bible made it clear that the blood of bulls only cleanse the flesh . But not the heart. Only the blood of Jesus purifies a man inside and out

trustman:
. For example, the Bible, in the Old Testament has requirements for animal sacrifices and so on. Would anyone therefore justify animal sacrifice today simply on the basis that it is in the Bible?

The bible declares the blood of Jesus better than the blood of bulls. Blood of animals were to cover people flesh for a season . But the blood of christ is perfect and eternal . And it cleanses man spirit soul and body

Joagbaje:

The bible declares the blood of Jesus better than the blood of bulls. Blood of animals were to cover people flesh for a season . But the blood of christ is perfect and eternal . And it cleanses man spirit soul and body

You don't "understand" what he's asking. In the same old testament, why would the blood do something and not do somethings in the same old testament\covenant? Why would Christ, through his blood free us from animal sacrifices in the law and not free us from 'commandment to tithe' contained in the same mosaic teachings?

Joagbaje:

Is honoring your father and mother not preach able ? Is fasting not peaceable . You preach what you believe. Especially if you have bible backing or foundation for it the application gets results.

Cele people get results when they mix black with white. People get results when they visit herbalist etc. Does that make it right practice?